Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:34 AM - Fuel Tank Construction (LarryRobertHelming)
2. 06:55 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Construction (LarryRobertHelming)
3. 02:28 PM - Re: [SPAM] Re: Fuel Tank Construction (Don Hall)
4. 03:29 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Construction (Ken & Terri Howell)
5. 09:46 PM - Fuselage riveting help? Firewall mount weldment (Merems)
6. 11:11 PM - Re: Fuselage riveting help? Firewall mount weldment (DonVS)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fuel Tank Construction |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Having built tanks on a couple of RVs I feel qualified to jump in and give
some advice on the tanks. I think Stephen has very good intentions, but I
think the approach is much too time consuming and tedious. I am sure it
will work. None the less, I would do the following to ensure you have a
leak proof tank.
1- Soak rivets in MKE for about 5 minutes. Slosh them around in it and
spread them out on a clean paper towel and allow to air dry real good for 15
minutes or longer. Keep these uncompromisingly clean. If any doubt about
whether they are clean, recline them.
2- Look at the ribs and plates how they contact the tank skins inside the
tank. You have straightened the rib flanges to 90 degrees, right? They fit
well, right? If not, get this taken care of first. Now, think of yourself
as a molecule of fuel. If you wanted to get out how would you do it. Of
course, you would have to slip out a rivet hole or one of the end ribs or
the bottom plate. So, you want to super clean both parts of those areas.
Get a maroon colored scotch brute pad and Dawn with water and go to cleaning
the rib and tank skin area where they contact each other real good. Rinse
well and dry it and then wipe the contact surfaces with a clean rag and MKE.
Do this a couple of times until you know it is super clean and oil free.
You wear rubber gloves so your skin oils do not contact the surfaces you
have super cleaned.
3- Mix up prosily to the 10 to 1 ratio. Be sure to mix the black activator
all by itself to start with to make sure some of the stuff has not settled.
4- Get a heavy (not a cheap thin one) freezer bag and turn it inside out.
Use a dull knife, ice cream stick, or spoon and spread the prosily from your
mixing container onto the inside out freezer bag near one of the bottom
corners. When it is all on there, turn the freezer bag right side out so
the prosily is on the inside. Lay bag on flat surface and work the prosily
all into one corner. You are ready to cut the corner so you can squeeze out
a bit in a small bead.
5- Start working on the inner most rib. Have your tank skin in a form to
hold it in the desired shape. Have a helper as an extra set of hands is
needed to do a really neat and good job. Take the rib and make a small
circling motion in and around each rivet hole on the rib using the prosily
freezer bag by squeezing it and then continue with just a connecting line of
prosily along the rib to the next hole. This is for all internal (not the
end ribs as they require more prosily) ribs. It does not take much prosily
on the internal ribs. You need enough prosily to prevent fuel from seeping
between the rib and the skin. Anything more is just not needed and makes
the job messy. Don't worry about having much prosily near the front,
leading edge of the internal ribs. Some up there is ok as it adds strength
to the leading edge.
6- Have your helper slightly spread the tank skin apart while carefully
moving the rib into place without smearing prosily where you do not want it.
Cleo every third hole to hold rib in place. You should and will see prosily
oozing out of the tank skin holes. Rivet as usual using MKE cleaned
rivets. Repeat steps 5 and 6 working from inside to end ribs.
7- On end ribs you need to have extra prosily on rib edge especially in the
corners and leading edge. You can really smear extra on the end ribs.
8- When done, go back and put a dab of prosily on top of each rivet shop
head. This is just added protection that fuel can not seep around the shaft
of the rivet. You can use a ice cream stick when done to smoothe any excess
prosily that may be there oozing out from seam of ribs and skin. If you
have any tiny thin strands of prosily in areas it is not needed, now is a
good time to clean it up with MKE.
9- You are now very good and the tank bottom plate will be more of the same.
Just make sure you have everything inside the tank you want (vent line for
instance) before putting the plate on. When it is done and before it cures
and sets up, put the tank on the wing and position it with its attachment
screws. Leave this for a few days until the prosily is cured. After a few
months depending on temperature, you can test with air pressure. This is
adequately detailed in the archives.
This process works perfectly. Cleanliness is next to Godliness when it
comes to fuel tanks. I would not put water in my tank for testing because
it does not test the entirety of the tank and I do not like getting water
into any parts of the fuel delivery system.
Best wishes.
Indiana Larry
----- Original Message -----
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Stephen Reynolds
> <stephen.j.reynolds@talk21.com>
>
> Hi Don, I did this last week, from what I can see it
> didn't hurt & will show up any obvious leaks, I was
> partcuarly concerned about the rivets in the nose of
> the rib. My top tank tip is this, I used a toothpick
> to run proseal around the rivet hole, when you insert
> the rivet only push it enough for it to stay in place,
> the important thing is to not let your gloved finger
> come into contact with the proseal, if you do this the
> whole process is much neater, you don't get proseal on
> your gloves & then it doesn't get on the rivet gun &
> everything else. Also a gloved finger dipped in MEK is
> good for smoothing the proseal out.
>
> have fun
>
> Stephen
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Construction |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Sorry for the prosily usage. Anywhere you see prosily, it should be
proseal. I think my spell checker had a bad morning.
Indiana Larry , do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Subject: RV7-List: Fuel Tank Construction
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> Having built tanks on a couple of RVs I feel qualified to jump in and give
> some advice on the tanks. I think Stephen has very good intentions, but I
> think the approach is much too time consuming and tedious. I am sure it
> will work. None the less, I would do the following to ensure you have a
> leak proof tank.
>
> 1- Soak rivets in MKE for about 5 minutes. Slosh them around in it and
> spread them out on a clean paper towel and allow to air dry real good for
> 15 minutes or longer. Keep these uncompromisingly clean. If any doubt
> about whether they are clean, recline them.
>
> 2- Look at the ribs and plates how they contact the tank skins inside the
> tank. You have straightened the rib flanges to 90 degrees, right? They
> fit well, right? If not, get this taken care of first. Now, think of
> yourself as a molecule of fuel. If you wanted to get out how would you do
> it. Of course, you would have to slip out a rivet hole or one of the end
> ribs or the bottom plate. So, you want to super clean both parts of those
> areas. Get a maroon colored scotch brute pad and Dawn with water and go to
> cleaning the rib and tank skin area where they contact each other real
> good. Rinse well and dry it and then wipe the contact surfaces with a
> clean rag and MKE. Do this a couple of times until you know it is super
> clean and oil free. You wear rubber gloves so your skin oils do not
> contact the surfaces you have super cleaned.
>
> 3- Mix up prosily to the 10 to 1 ratio. Be sure to mix the black
> activator all by itself to start with to make sure some of the stuff has
> not settled.
>
> 4- Get a heavy (not a cheap thin one) freezer bag and turn it inside out.
> Use a dull knife, ice cream stick, or spoon and spread the prosily from
> your mixing container onto the inside out freezer bag near one of the
> bottom corners. When it is all on there, turn the freezer bag right side
> out so the prosily is on the inside. Lay bag on flat surface and work the
> prosily all into one corner. You are ready to cut the corner so you can
> squeeze out a bit in a small bead.
>
> 5- Start working on the inner most rib. Have your tank skin in a form to
> hold it in the desired shape. Have a helper as an extra set of hands is
> needed to do a really neat and good job. Take the rib and make a small
> circling motion in and around each rivet hole on the rib using the prosily
> freezer bag by squeezing it and then continue with just a connecting line
> of prosily along the rib to the next hole. This is for all internal (not
> the end ribs as they require more prosily) ribs. It does not take much
> prosily on the internal ribs. You need enough prosily to prevent fuel
> from seeping between the rib and the skin. Anything more is just not
> needed and makes the job messy. Don't worry about having much prosily
> near the front, leading edge of the internal ribs. Some up there is ok as
> it adds strength to the leading edge.
>
> 6- Have your helper slightly spread the tank skin apart while carefully
> moving the rib into place without smearing prosily where you do not want
> it. Cleo every third hole to hold rib in place. You should and will see
> prosily oozing out of the tank skin holes. Rivet as usual using MKE
> cleaned rivets. Repeat steps 5 and 6 working from inside to end ribs.
>
> 7- On end ribs you need to have extra prosily on rib edge especially in
> the corners and leading edge. You can really smear extra on the end ribs.
>
> 8- When done, go back and put a dab of prosily on top of each rivet shop
> head. This is just added protection that fuel can not seep around the
> shaft of the rivet. You can use a ice cream stick when done to smoothe
> any excess prosily that may be there oozing out from seam of ribs and
> skin. If you have any tiny thin strands of prosily in areas it is not
> needed, now is a good time to clean it up with MKE.
>
> 9- You are now very good and the tank bottom plate will be more of the
> same. Just make sure you have everything inside the tank you want (vent
> line for instance) before putting the plate on. When it is done and
> before it cures and sets up, put the tank on the wing and position it with
> its attachment screws. Leave this for a few days until the prosily is
> cured. After a few months depending on temperature, you can test with air
> pressure. This is adequately detailed in the archives.
>
> This process works perfectly. Cleanliness is next to Godliness when it
> comes to fuel tanks. I would not put water in my tank for testing because
> it does not test the entirety of the tank and I do not like getting water
> into any parts of the fuel delivery system.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Indiana Larry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>> --> RV7-List message posted by: Stephen Reynolds
>> <stephen.j.reynolds@talk21.com>
>>
>> Hi Don, I did this last week, from what I can see it
>> didn't hurt & will show up any obvious leaks, I was
>> partcuarly concerned about the rivets in the nose of
>> the rib. My top tank tip is this, I used a toothpick
>> to run proseal around the rivet hole, when you insert
>> the rivet only push it enough for it to stay in place,
>> the important thing is to not let your gloved finger
>> come into contact with the proseal, if you do this the
>> whole process is much neater, you don't get proseal on
>> your gloves & then it doesn't get on the rivet gun &
>> everything else. Also a gloved finger dipped in MEK is
>> good for smoothing the proseal out.
>>
>> have fun
>>
>> Stephen
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Construction |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Don Hall" <dhall@donka.net>
Ain't a bad name. Pro-silly-putty.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming
Subject: [SPAM] Re: RV7-List: Fuel Tank Construction
--> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
--> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Sorry for the prosily usage. Anywhere you see prosily, it should be
proseal. I think my spell checker had a bad morning.
Indiana Larry , do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Subject: RV7-List: Fuel Tank Construction
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> Having built tanks on a couple of RVs I feel qualified to jump in and
> give some advice on the tanks. I think Stephen has very good
> intentions, but I think the approach is much too time consuming and
> tedious. I am sure it will work. None the less, I would do the
> following to ensure you have a leak proof tank.
>
> 1- Soak rivets in MKE for about 5 minutes. Slosh them around in it
> and spread them out on a clean paper towel and allow to air dry real
> good for
> 15 minutes or longer. Keep these uncompromisingly clean. If any
> doubt about whether they are clean, recline them.
>
> 2- Look at the ribs and plates how they contact the tank skins inside
> the tank. You have straightened the rib flanges to 90 degrees, right?
> They fit well, right? If not, get this taken care of first. Now,
> think of yourself as a molecule of fuel. If you wanted to get out how
> would you do it. Of course, you would have to slip out a rivet hole
> or one of the end ribs or the bottom plate. So, you want to super
> clean both parts of those areas. Get a maroon colored scotch brute pad
> and Dawn with water and go to cleaning the rib and tank skin area
> where they contact each other real good. Rinse well and dry it and
> then wipe the contact surfaces with a clean rag and MKE. Do this a
> couple of times until you know it is super clean and oil free. You
> wear rubber gloves so your skin oils do not contact the surfaces you have
super cleaned.
>
> 3- Mix up prosily to the 10 to 1 ratio. Be sure to mix the black
> activator all by itself to start with to make sure some of the stuff
> has not settled.
>
> 4- Get a heavy (not a cheap thin one) freezer bag and turn it inside out.
> Use a dull knife, ice cream stick, or spoon and spread the prosily
> from your mixing container onto the inside out freezer bag near one of
> the bottom corners. When it is all on there, turn the freezer bag
> right side out so the prosily is on the inside. Lay bag on flat
> surface and work the prosily all into one corner. You are ready to
> cut the corner so you can squeeze out a bit in a small bead.
>
> 5- Start working on the inner most rib. Have your tank skin in a form
> to hold it in the desired shape. Have a helper as an extra set of
> hands is needed to do a really neat and good job. Take the rib and
> make a small circling motion in and around each rivet hole on the rib
> using the prosily freezer bag by squeezing it and then continue with
> just a connecting line of prosily along the rib to the next hole.
> This is for all internal (not the end ribs as they require more
> prosily) ribs. It does not take much prosily on the internal ribs. You
need enough prosily to prevent fuel
> from seeping between the rib and the skin. Anything more is just not
> needed and makes the job messy. Don't worry about having much prosily
> near the front, leading edge of the internal ribs. Some up there is
> ok as it adds strength to the leading edge.
>
> 6- Have your helper slightly spread the tank skin apart while
> carefully moving the rib into place without smearing prosily where you
> do not want it. Cleo every third hole to hold rib in place. You should
and will see
> prosily oozing out of the tank skin holes. Rivet as usual using MKE
> cleaned rivets. Repeat steps 5 and 6 working from inside to end ribs.
>
> 7- On end ribs you need to have extra prosily on rib edge especially
> in the corners and leading edge. You can really smear extra on the end
ribs.
>
> 8- When done, go back and put a dab of prosily on top of each rivet
> shop head. This is just added protection that fuel can not seep
> around the shaft of the rivet. You can use a ice cream stick when
> done to smoothe any excess prosily that may be there oozing out from
> seam of ribs and skin. If you have any tiny thin strands of prosily
> in areas it is not needed, now is a good time to clean it up with MKE.
>
> 9- You are now very good and the tank bottom plate will be more of the
> same. Just make sure you have everything inside the tank you want (vent
> line for instance) before putting the plate on. When it is done and
> before it cures and sets up, put the tank on the wing and position it
> with its attachment screws. Leave this for a few days until the
> prosily is cured. After a few months depending on temperature, you
> can test with air pressure. This is adequately detailed in the archives.
>
> This process works perfectly. Cleanliness is next to Godliness when
> it comes to fuel tanks. I would not put water in my tank for testing
> because it does not test the entirety of the tank and I do not like
> getting water into any parts of the fuel delivery system.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Indiana Larry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>> --> RV7-List message posted by: Stephen Reynolds
>> <stephen.j.reynolds@talk21.com>
>>
>> Hi Don, I did this last week, from what I can see it didn't hurt &
>> will show up any obvious leaks, I was partcuarly concerned about the
>> rivets in the nose of the rib. My top tank tip is this, I used a
>> toothpick to run proseal around the rivet hole, when you insert the
>> rivet only push it enough for it to stay in place, the important
>> thing is to not let your gloved finger come into contact with the
>> proseal, if you do this the whole process is much neater, you don't
>> get proseal on your gloves & then it doesn't get on the rivet gun &
>> everything else. Also a gloved finger dipped in MEK is good for
>> smoothing the proseal out.
>>
>> have fun
>>
>> Stephen
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fuel Tank Construction |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Ken & Terri Howell" <tandk_howell@comcast.net>
Larry,
Pros.i.ly \'pro-ze-le\ adv : in a prosy manner
Your posting was indeed pure prose. I printed it out and will be referring
to it when I get to the dreaded prosily process. Thanks,
Ken Howell
RV-7 Wings
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel Tank Construction
--> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Sorry for the prosily usage. Anywhere you see prosily, it should be
proseal. I think my spell checker had a bad morning.
Indiana Larry , do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Subject: RV7-List: Fuel Tank Construction
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> Having built tanks on a couple of RVs I feel qualified to jump in and give
> some advice on the tanks. I think Stephen has very good intentions, but I
> think the approach is much too time consuming and tedious. I am sure it
> will work. None the less, I would do the following to ensure you have a
> leak proof tank.
>
> 1- Soak rivets in MKE for about 5 minutes. Slosh them around in it and
> spread them out on a clean paper towel and allow to air dry real good for
> 15 minutes or longer. Keep these uncompromisingly clean. If any doubt
> about whether they are clean, recline them.
>
> 2- Look at the ribs and plates how they contact the tank skins inside the
> tank. You have straightened the rib flanges to 90 degrees, right? They
> fit well, right? If not, get this taken care of first. Now, think of
> yourself as a molecule of fuel. If you wanted to get out how would you do
> it. Of course, you would have to slip out a rivet hole or one of the end
> ribs or the bottom plate. So, you want to super clean both parts of those
> areas. Get a maroon colored scotch brute pad and Dawn with water and go to
> cleaning the rib and tank skin area where they contact each other real
> good. Rinse well and dry it and then wipe the contact surfaces with a
> clean rag and MKE. Do this a couple of times until you know it is super
> clean and oil free. You wear rubber gloves so your skin oils do not
> contact the surfaces you have super cleaned.
>
> 3- Mix up prosily to the 10 to 1 ratio. Be sure to mix the black
> activator all by itself to start with to make sure some of the stuff has
> not settled.
>
> 4- Get a heavy (not a cheap thin one) freezer bag and turn it inside out.
> Use a dull knife, ice cream stick, or spoon and spread the prosily from
> your mixing container onto the inside out freezer bag near one of the
> bottom corners. When it is all on there, turn the freezer bag right side
> out so the prosily is on the inside. Lay bag on flat surface and work the
> prosily all into one corner. You are ready to cut the corner so you can
> squeeze out a bit in a small bead.
>
> 5- Start working on the inner most rib. Have your tank skin in a form to
> hold it in the desired shape. Have a helper as an extra set of hands is
> needed to do a really neat and good job. Take the rib and make a small
> circling motion in and around each rivet hole on the rib using the prosily
> freezer bag by squeezing it and then continue with just a connecting line
> of prosily along the rib to the next hole. This is for all internal (not
> the end ribs as they require more prosily) ribs. It does not take much
> prosily on the internal ribs. You need enough prosily to prevent fuel
> from seeping between the rib and the skin. Anything more is just not
> needed and makes the job messy. Don't worry about having much prosily
> near the front, leading edge of the internal ribs. Some up there is ok as
> it adds strength to the leading edge.
>
> 6- Have your helper slightly spread the tank skin apart while carefully
> moving the rib into place without smearing prosily where you do not want
> it. Cleo every third hole to hold rib in place. You should and will see
> prosily oozing out of the tank skin holes. Rivet as usual using MKE
> cleaned rivets. Repeat steps 5 and 6 working from inside to end ribs.
>
> 7- On end ribs you need to have extra prosily on rib edge especially in
> the corners and leading edge. You can really smear extra on the end ribs.
>
> 8- When done, go back and put a dab of prosily on top of each rivet shop
> head. This is just added protection that fuel can not seep around the
> shaft of the rivet. You can use a ice cream stick when done to smoothe
> any excess prosily that may be there oozing out from seam of ribs and
> skin. If you have any tiny thin strands of prosily in areas it is not
> needed, now is a good time to clean it up with MKE.
>
> 9- You are now very good and the tank bottom plate will be more of the
> same. Just make sure you have everything inside the tank you want (vent
> line for instance) before putting the plate on. When it is done and
> before it cures and sets up, put the tank on the wing and position it with
> its attachment screws. Leave this for a few days until the prosily is
> cured. After a few months depending on temperature, you can test with air
> pressure. This is adequately detailed in the archives.
>
> This process works perfectly. Cleanliness is next to Godliness when it
> comes to fuel tanks. I would not put water in my tank for testing because
> it does not test the entirety of the tank and I do not like getting water
> into any parts of the fuel delivery system.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Indiana Larry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>> --> RV7-List message posted by: Stephen Reynolds
>> <stephen.j.reynolds@talk21.com>
>>
>> Hi Don, I did this last week, from what I can see it
>> didn't hurt & will show up any obvious leaks, I was
>> partcuarly concerned about the rivets in the nose of
>> the rib. My top tank tip is this, I used a toothpick
>> to run proseal around the rivet hole, when you insert
>> the rivet only push it enough for it to stay in place,
>> the important thing is to not let your gloved finger
>> come into contact with the proseal, if you do this the
>> whole process is much neater, you don't get proseal on
>> your gloves & then it doesn't get on the rivet gun &
>> everything else. Also a gloved finger dipped in MEK is
>> good for smoothing the proseal out.
>>
>> have fun
>>
>> Stephen
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fuselage riveting help? Firewall mount weldment |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0017 1.0000 -4.4666
Fellow RV-9/7 fuselage builders,
I am just about complete with my riveting of my RV-7 fuselage (upside down). I
am having troubles setting the forward most AN426AD4 rivet that joins the side
skin, bottom skin, longeron and firewall weldment. I have tried several different
bucking bars. Most of them are lighter then I would normally use to set
1/8 rivets, but due to the flanges on the weldment I can't use my larger and
heavier bucking bars. I believe most of the energy is going into the structure
and not the rivet. I am using a 3X gun and running 50 psi.
Any thoughts?
Paul
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuselage riveting help? Firewall mount weldment |
Paul,
What I did was to use the avery "long backriveting set" I used a heavy hand
held back rivet bucking bar on the outside and the long rivet set in the
gun. This will send all energy into the rivet. Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Merems
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 9:47 PM
To: rv9-list@matronics.com; RV-9A@yahoogroups.com; rv7-list@matronics.com;
RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RV7-List: Fuselage riveting help? Firewall mount weldment
Fellow RV-9/7 fuselage builders,
I am just about complete with my riveting of my RV-7 fuselage (upside
down). I am having troubles setting the forward most AN426AD4 rivet that
joins the side skin, bottom skin, longeron and firewall weldment. I have
tried several different bucking bars. Most of them are lighter then I would
normally use to set 1/8 rivets, but due to the flanges on the weldment I
can't use my larger and heavier bucking bars. I believe most of the energy
is going into the structure and not the rivet. I am using a 3X gun and
running 50 psi.
Any thoughts?
Paul
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