Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:42 AM - RE Dangerous ER fuel tanks (Brian Gawronski)
2. 06:51 AM - Re: RE Dangerous ER fuel tanks (JohnCClarkVA@cs.com)
3. 11:13 AM - Re: Dangerous ER fuel tanks? ()
4. 08:45 PM - Re: Mandatory Service Bulletin (Dave Nellis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE Dangerous ER fuel tanks |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Brian Gawronski <six_rabbits@yahoo.com>
The two-place Grumman American AA-1 uses its
full-length tubular main spar as the fuel tank.
Because of this, it is placarded against spins, and
has been involved in numerous spin accidents. NASA
has used it as a spin research plane (with a
spin-recovery chute mounted at the tail!)
My advice would be to avoid spins unless the ER
tanks
are empty. Or wear a parachute and be prepared to
use
it.
Brian Gawronski
RV-7A
Empennage #1, Rudder #2
> >However; I got an interesting thought from a
> builder
> >who wrote that these tanks
> >were potentially dangerous.
> >He said that during spin, the fuel would be sloshed
> to >the outboard end of the
> >fueltank thus making it difficult or impossible to
> >revover from a spin.
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE Dangerous ER fuel tanks |
I would not characterize ER tanks as dangerous. I would suggest that the
tanks, and many other factors, may adversly affect the spin characteristics of
your airplane. The spin characteristics of many airplanes are less than ideal,
some airplanes have spin or recovery characteristics that are not consistent
from one spin to the next. Slight modifications can significantly affect spin
charactistics. The problem is that most of us are ill-equipped and
ill-prepared to explore those characteristics.
If I wanted the tanks, I would put them on. The most likely place that I
would inadvertly stall and start a spin is in the pattern. It probably does not
make much difference if it takes 1/2 turn or 4 turns to recover. If I wanted
protection, an AOA/stall warning device would buy the most protection (now
don't pick on me about how we should be well trained pilots who whould never
stall or spin - those devices are on many (most) certified airplanes (from the
smallest to the largest) for a reason).
Take a look at an SAIB for Piper Cherokees. I would suggest that most of the
concepts apply to us, recognizing that each specific instruction may not
apply to any individual RV.
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/alerts/saib/media/ACE-97-02.htm
Regards, John.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dangerous ER fuel tanks? |
I think the ER tanks are very safe, and like any increase in system complication
the responsibility is on the pilot for proper operation and use.
As far as spins with weight at the extremities, such as full tanks in the wing
tip two comments:
On any given day I go fly I am 100% sure I can keep my plane from stalling and
thus entering a spin. If I had fuel in ER tanks, I would not do Acro, right?
(see my first paragraph.)
Last, any weight further from the CG of the plane WILL make spin RECOVERY more
difficult. Its like a bar bell with weight on the end. YES it may take more
to get the bar-bell started to twirl like a cheerleader baton, but once you get
it going, it will want to keep going, being hard to stop it spinning, so it
could be possible that IF you had fuel in the ER tanks, IF you forced the plane
to spin, you could compromise the ability of the aircraft to recover (ie not
enough rudder to over come the spin inertia).
This is called MOMENT of INERTIA. Needless to say don't spin with fuel in the
ER tanks and observe Van's arco weight and CG limits and use common sense (see
above paragraphs). The plane is not dangerous the pilot is. There are LOTS of
planes with wing tip fuel tanks certified by the FAA, but not certified to spin.
To claim that the ER tanks are dangerous is ridiculous. There are certified
planes who's spin recovery modes are NIL, even with out wing tip tanks. Most
light twins are not SAFE to spin nor are they approved, so they are also dangerous?
Not spinning is easy if you know how to fly a plane. Planes just don't
spin.
In fact a RV might spin and recover fine even with the ER tank fuel, but can't
say for sure, and no one else can say either, unless its flight tested; I am
not going to do it and will observe the obvious LIMITATION, "Don't spin with
fuel in ER tanks". To say they are dangerous with out some FACTS, is just silliness.
When I do Acro, I am toast after 20-30 minutes max, so I don't think I need extra
fuel to do acro. :-o hahahah.
Rant and rave over :-)
George
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Mandatory Service Bulletin |
One of the catalog places ACS or Spruce has a jig for
drilling these holes.
Dave
--- "Scott R. Shook" <sshook@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> Saw the SB, my only question would be how does one
> drill the nut and install
> the safety wire? To drill the nut and install the
> wire that would interfere
> with the threads would it not?
>
> Considering I am working on the wings now.I would
> like to know.
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Daniel Storer
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 4:53 PM
> To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV7-List: Mandatory Service Bulletin
>
>
>
>
> Did everyone see the fuel tank SB on Vans web site?
> Sure would make for a
> bad day at the office.
>
>
>
> Dan Storer
>
> RV7A
>
> Waiting finishing kit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=96767> Add
> FUN to your email -
> CLICK HERE!
>
>
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