Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:18 AM - Re: wing mating (Pascal GROELL)
2. 05:17 AM - wing mating ()
3. 07:08 AM - Re: wing mating (Bob Collins)
4. 09:21 AM - Re: Elevator trim rigging (springcanyon)
5. 10:23 AM - Re: wing mating (William Gill)
Message 1
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Hello,
About the rear spar and rivet interference have a look at this page, about
2/3 down.
http://www.jeffsrv-7a.com/WINGS/05-11-20.htm
Pascal
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de dhall@donka.net
Envoy: samedi 4 aot 2007 23:06
: rv7-list@matronics.com
Objet: RV7-List: wing mating
Having some doubt on getting the wings aligned.
I've got the wings in place with drift pins.
- i carefully leveled the fuse, longitudally and laterally.
- I suspended 3 plumb bobs each wing, out/mid/in.
- I stretched a line between the outboard bobs. The other 4 bobs were
behind the line. Suggests forward sweep.
- I restretched the line between the inboard bobs. The outboard bobs
were about 1/8-1/4" forward. Also suggests forward sweep.
This suggests I have forward sweep.
The problem is that I can't nudge the wings to take out the sweep. I
have two issues:
a) The rear spar is snug against the fuse, mostly interfering with the
round head rivet just above the attach point.
b) The flap is already very snug to the fuse.
In order to take as much as 1/4" sweep out, I calculated that I need
between 1/16" and 1/32" movement on the rear spar. Minor trimming
around the rivet and the inside edge of the spar would give me the
movement I need, but the flap fit is already so snug, nearly perfect, so
there's doubt. If I move the wing to take out fwd sweep, It looks like
I'll have to do some minor reshaping of the flap to avoid interference
with the fuse.
Questions:
- Anybody else find similar rivet or flap interference?
- Is it normal to have to tweak the flap fit along the fuse?
- Should I also be concerned about having to trim the rear spar?
Thought I was precise on the original cut, but I guess I could have been
off by a hair.
Man, it was a bear to get the wings in. I don't relish the thought of
taking them in/out for trimming and tweaking...
Don
Message 2
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wing mating,
DHall,
I had the same problem...the wing rear spar was too tight. Van's told me
that a 1/4 to 1/2 is not a big concern...but I wanted zero, or at least
close to it. I had to trim the two mating surfaces to get the sweep to
zero; go slooowwwly and be conservative and it will be perfect.
Remove the flap first than work your sweep. I had to trip my flap skin
quite a bit to make it clear and look even (on both sides). Again, be
conservative and take your time.
Ron F.
-7A, Canopy/baffling/cowling
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV7-List Digest Server" <rv7-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, 05 August, 2007 2:57 AM
Subject: RV7-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/04/07
> *
>
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> Total Messages Posted Sat 08/04/07: 6
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> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:52 AM - Re: Elevator trim rigging (Rafael)
> 2. 07:58 AM - Re: Elevator trim rigging (Rafael)
> 3. 02:06 PM - wing mating (dhall@donka.net)
> 4. 03:16 PM - Re: wing mating (scott bilinski)
> 5. 04:54 PM - Re: Elevator trim rigging (Scott R. Shook)
> 6. 05:24 PM - Re: wing mating (B Tomm)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:52:19 AM PST US
> From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Elevator trim rigging
>
> Bevan,
>
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
>
> I believe I have the correct type installed.
>
>
> I also have two sets of horns: one with the provision for either electric
> or
> manual trim, and another for electric trim only.
>
>
> On the one for either installation, there are two sets of holes. One set,
> further from the trim surface, is for the manual trim. The other, closest
> to the trim surface, is for electric trim. One is supposed to trim off
> the
> excess material for the electric trim installation.
>
>
> On the other set of horns, those for electric trim, there is only one set
> of
> holes and no material trimming is necessary. When I compare the set horn
> for universal installation with the ones for electric installation only,
> the
> dimensions are the same after trimming the excess material on the dual
> ones.
>
>
> Now, if one were to use the manual trim holes on the dual horns in an
> electric installation, there would indeed be plenty of clearance for the
> rod. This makes me wonder why did Vans make the electric trim horns so
> much
> closer to the trim tab.
>
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
>
> Rafael
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 2:23 AM
> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Elevator trim rigging
>
>
> Rafael,
>
>
> My kit came with two sets of aluminum material to make the horn which is
> riveted to the trim surface and connects to the rod. One is for manual
> trim
> and one for electric. Are you sure that your using the correct one? I
> don't recall having to trim or enlarge the hole for the rod.
>
>
> Bevan
>
> Rv7A wiring
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rafael
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 5:22 PM
> Subject: RV7-List: Elevator trim rigging
>
> Hi folks!
>
>
> I would appreciate some help. I'm trying to rig up the electric trim and
> find that I need to trim away quite a bit of metal to eliminate
> interference
> for the full down trim.
>
>
> I followed Van's instructions regarding the positioning of the trim motor
> mount. As you can see from the pictures, though still within the opening
> footprint,
>
> the actuating rod turned out pretty close to the inboard edge. (I thought
> about centering the mounts at the time, but decided to trust the plans.)
>
>
> After installing the trim system, there is a slight miss-alignment, but
> nothing that would cause stress in the system. I made some marks on the
> max, min, and half-way travel of the actuating rod. I then adjusted the
> length for no trim at the half-way point.
>
>
> What worries me most is the amount of metal I have to file out to prevent
> the actuating rod from contacting the elevator under max down trim. As
> you
> can see, I've already removed quite a bit of Aluminum. I hesitate to trim
> further without some reassurance.
>
>
> Van's builder's assistance is closed for the weekend, so I thought I would
> seek y'alls' help (I recently moved to Aiken, SC, and I'm learning the
> local
> grammar ;))
>
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
>
> Rafael
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:58:28 AM PST US
> From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Elevator trim rigging
>
> Thanks again, John for your suggestion.
>
>
> I bent the rod a few degrees and that worked very well. It not only gave
> me
> good clearance, but I was also to correct for the slight miss-alignment.
>
>
> I now have another question: I measure a trim control of 20.6 degrees up
> trim max. and 23.2 degrees down trim max. Van's figures, on section 15:
> Flight Controls, call for Maximum up/down of 25-35 degrees. That implies
> to
> me that a minimum travel of 50 degrees is necessary. I'm getting 43.8
> degrees, so there's no way to meet these numbers. It's all that the motor
> actuator will give.
>
>
> Any comments as to what's going on?
>
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
>
> Rafael
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rafael
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:58 PM
> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Elevator trim rigging
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> That makes a lot of sense. It's definitely less traumatic than removing
> al
> that aluminum.
>
>
> I'll try it.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Rafael
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of J. Brunke
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 11:04 PM
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Elevator trim rigging
>
>
> Dear Rafael,
>
>
> I had the same problem, till a more experienced builder told me to put a
> bend in the threaded rod.
>
>
> It will lift it just slightly and should give you a little more breathing
> room.
>
> Hope that works for you. Sorry I don't have a photo close by to send.
>
>
> John Brunke
>
> RV7 in progress
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Rafael <mailto:rafael@gforcecable.com>
>
>
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 6:22 PM
>
> Subject: RV7-List: Elevator trim rigging
>
>
> Hi folks!
>
>
> I would appreciate some help. I'm trying to rig up the electric trim and
> find that I need to trim away quite a bit of metal to eliminate
> interference
> for the full down trim.
>
>
> I followed Van's instructions regarding the positioning of the trim motor
> mount. As you can see from the pictures, though still within the opening
> footprint,
>
> the actuating rod turned out pretty close to the inboard edge. (I thought
> about centering the mounts at the time, but decided to trust the plans.)
>
>
> After installing the trim system, there is a slight miss-alignment, but
> nothing that would cause stress in the system. I made some marks on the
> max, min, and half-way travel of the actuating rod. I then adjusted the
> length for no trim at the half-way point.
>
>
> What worries me most is the amount of metal I have to file out to prevent
> the actuating rod from contacting the elevator under max down trim. As
> you
> can see, I've already removed quite a bit of Aluminum. I hesitate to trim
> further without some reassurance.
>
>
> Van's builder's assistance is closed for the weekend, so I thought I would
> seek y'alls' help (I recently moved to Aiken, SC, and I'm learning the
> local
> grammar ;))
>
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
>
> Rafael
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV7-List">http://www.matronics.com/
> Navigator?RV7-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:06:41 PM PST US
> From: dhall@donka.net
> Subject: RV7-List: wing mating
>
>
> Having some doubt on getting the wings aligned.
>
> I've got the wings in place with drift pins.
> - i carefully leveled the fuse, longitudally and laterally.
> - I suspended 3 plumb bobs each wing, out/mid/in.
> - I stretched a line between the outboard bobs. The other 4 bobs were
> behind the line. Suggests forward sweep.
> - I restretched the line between the inboard bobs. The outboard bobs
> were about 1/8-1/4" forward. Also suggests forward sweep.
> This suggests I have forward sweep.
>
> The problem is that I can't nudge the wings to take out the sweep. I
> have two issues:
> a) The rear spar is snug against the fuse, mostly interfering with the
> round head rivet just above the attach point.
> b) The flap is already very snug to the fuse.
>
> In order to take as much as 1/4" sweep out, I calculated that I need
> between 1/16" and 1/32" movement on the rear spar. Minor trimming
> around the rivet and the inside edge of the spar would give me the
> movement I need, but the flap fit is already so snug, nearly perfect, so
> there's doubt. If I move the wing to take out fwd sweep, It looks like
> I'll have to do some minor reshaping of the flap to avoid interference
> with the fuse.
>
> Questions:
> - Anybody else find similar rivet or flap interference?
> - Is it normal to have to tweak the flap fit along the fuse?
> - Should I also be concerned about having to trim the rear spar?
> Thought I was precise on the original cut, but I guess I could have been
> off by a hair.
>
> Man, it was a bear to get the wings in. I don't relish the thought of
> taking them in/out for trimming and tweaking...
>
> Don
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:16:35 PM PST US
> From: scott bilinski <rv8a2001@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: wing mating
>
> Install the wings with out the flaps and then trim the flaps to
> fit.......W
> orked great for me.......what do the instructions say?=0A=0AAlso a picture
> is worth a thousand words, and its been a few years so I dont remember any
> rivet problems.=0A =0AScott Bilinski=0ARV-8a=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----
> Orig
> inal Message ----=0AFrom: "dhall@donka.net" <dhall@donka.net>=0ATo:
> rv7-lis
> t@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, August 4, 2007 2:05:40 PM=0ASubject:
> RV7-
> =0A=0AHaving some doubt on getting the wings aligned.=0A=0AI've got the
> win
> gs in place with drift pins. =0A- i carefully leveled the fuse,
> longitudal
> ly and laterally.=0A- I suspended 3 plumb bobs each wing, out/mid/in.=0A-
> I
> stretched a line between the outboard bobs. The other 4 bobs were=0Abehin
> d the line. Suggests forward sweep.=0A- I restretched the line between
> the
> inboard bobs. The outboard bobs=0Awere about 1/8-1/4" forward. Also sugge
> sts forward sweep.=0AThis suggests I have forward sweep. =0A=0AThe
> problem
> is that I can't nudge the wings to take out the sweep. I=0Ahave two issue
> s:=0Aa) The rear spar is snug against the fuse, mostly interfering with
> the
> =0Around head rivet just above the attach point.=0Ab) The flap is already
> v
> ery snug to the fuse. =0A=0AIn order to take as much as 1/4" sweep out, I
> calculated that I need=0Abetween 1/16" and 1/32" movement on the rear
> spar.
> Minor trimming=0Aaround the rivet and the inside edge of the spar would g
> ive me the=0Amovement I need, but the flap fit is already so snug, nearly
> p
> erfect, so=0Athere's doubt. If I move the wing to take out fwd sweep, It
> lo
> oks like=0AI'll have to do some minor reshaping of the flap to avoid
> interf
> erence=0Awith the fuse.=0A=0AQuestions:=0A- Anybody else find similar
> rivet
> or flap interference?=0A- Is it normal to have to tweak the flap fit along
> the fuse?=0A- Should I also be concerned about having to trim the rear spa
> r? =0AThought I was precise on the original cut, but I guess I could have
> b
> een=0Aoff by a hair. =0A=0AMan, it was a bear to get the wings in. I
> don'
> t relish the thought of=0Ataking them in/out for trimming and tweaking...
> ======0A=0A=0A =0A_________________________________________
> ___________________________________________=0ALooking for a deal? Find
> grea
> t prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
> FareChase.=0Ahttp://farechase.ya
> hoo.com/
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:54:59 PM PST US
> From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook@cox.net>
> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Elevator trim rigging
>
> I had the same question when I was working on my Elevators. I believe
> somewhere in the electric trim instructions it does say that you can put a
> bend in the threaded rod.
>
>
> Scott R. Shook
> RV-7A (Building)
> N696JS (Reserved)
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rafael
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 17:22
> Subject: RV7-List: Elevator trim rigging
>
>
> Hi folks!
>
>
> I would appreciate some help. I'm trying to rig up the electric trim and
> find that I need to trim away quite a bit of metal to eliminate
> interference
> for the full down trim.
>
>
> I followed Van's instructions regarding the positioning of the trim motor
> mount. As you can see from the pictures, though still within the opening
> footprint,
>
> the actuating rod turned out pretty close to the inboard edge. (I thought
> about centering the mounts at the time, but decided to trust the plans.)
>
>
> After installing the trim system, there is a slight miss-alignment, but
> nothing that would cause stress in the system. I made some marks on the
> max, min, and half-way travel of the actuating rod. I then adjusted the
> length for no trim at the half-way point.
>
>
> What worries me most is the amount of metal I have to file out to prevent
> the actuating rod from contacting the elevator under max down trim. As
> you
> can see, I've already removed quite a bit of Aluminum. I hesitate to trim
> further without some reassurance.
>
>
> Van's builder's assistance is closed for the weekend, so I thought I would
> seek y'alls' help (I recently moved to Aiken, SC, and I'm learning the
> local
> grammar ;))
>
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
>
> Rafael
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:24:44 PM PST US
> From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
> Subject: RE: RV7-List: wing mating
>
>
> Don,
>
> I agree with Scott.
>
> Also, double check with the plans and call Van's if there are still
> questions. This is an important step. Primarily due to minimum edge
> distance requirements on the rear spar. I seem to recall that some sweep
> forward or aft (1/2'?) is permitted but not sure and I wanted to try and
> get
> them perfect. So....
>
> Assuming minimum edge distances are complied with, I trimmed to minimize
> the
> sweep. I was able to bet the sweep to be zero. Originally I had left the
> rear spars slightly long (about 1/16 as I recall). I then trimmed this to
> clear a rivet head.
>
> Five plum bobs worked for me. One from the tail area, one inboard, one
> outboard on each wing, all hanging at the same time. (I drilled a 3/32
> hole
> in the center of the fuse near the last bulkhead to make a convenient
> place
> to drop a plumb line from). I snapped a line on the floor under the wings
> the full length of the wingspan. I then pulled each wing (only had to do
> one) to get all the plumb bobs to point to the center of the line. The
> outboard bobs hung from the last rivet line. This was important because
> where these bobs intersected the snapped line, I made a mark on the floor.
> I then measured with a long tape to the bob hanging in the tail. When
> the
> left and right triangulations agreed, I knew I had no sweep and straight
> wings.
>
> This was on a RV7A but I think it would be the same on a 8.
>
> Good luck
>
> Bevan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dhall@donka.net
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 2:06 PM
> Subject: RV7-List: wing mating
>
>
> Having some doubt on getting the wings aligned.
>
> I've got the wings in place with drift pins.
> - i carefully leveled the fuse, longitudally and laterally.
> - I suspended 3 plumb bobs each wing, out/mid/in.
> - I stretched a line between the outboard bobs. The other 4 bobs were
> behind the line. Suggests forward sweep.
> - I restretched the line between the inboard bobs. The outboard bobs were
> about 1/8-1/4" forward. Also suggests forward sweep.
> This suggests I have forward sweep.
>
> The problem is that I can't nudge the wings to take out the sweep. I have
> two issues:
> a) The rear spar is snug against the fuse, mostly interfering with the
> round head rivet just above the attach point.
> b) The flap is already very snug to the fuse.
>
> In order to take as much as 1/4" sweep out, I calculated that I need
> between
> 1/16" and 1/32" movement on the rear spar. Minor trimming around the
> rivet
> and the inside edge of the spar would give me the movement I need, but the
> flap fit is already so snug, nearly perfect, so there's doubt. If I move
> the
> wing to take out fwd sweep, It looks like I'll have to do some minor
> reshaping of the flap to avoid interference with the fuse.
>
> Questions:
> - Anybody else find similar rivet or flap interference?
> - Is it normal to have to tweak the flap fit along the fuse?
> - Should I also be concerned about having to trim the rear spar?
> Thought I was precise on the original cut, but I guess I could have been
> off
> by a hair.
>
> Man, it was a bear to get the wings in. I don't relish the thought of
> taking them in/out for trimming and tweaking...
>
> Don
>
>
>
Message 3
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|
I went with the Van's method... I had a 1/8" sweep and paid attention to the
Van's "get real" admonishment, mostly because I'm not an engineer and they
are. But I can see where people strive for perfection. The question I have
in this regard is what IS the flying difference between, say, 0 sweep and
1/45" sweep.
One warning to all -- The "window" (i.e. the area) to drill the bolt hole
in the rear spar fork is MUCH smaller than most people think. Be very
careful about how much you remove in that area.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
colfearnow@earthlink.net
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 7:14 AM
Subject: RV7-List: wing mating
wing mating,
DHall,
I had the same problem...the wing rear spar was too tight. Van's told me
that a 1/4 to 1/2 is not a big concern...but I wanted zero, or at least
close to it. I had to trim the two mating surfaces to get the sweep to
zero; go slooowwwly and be conservative and it will be perfect.
Remove the flap first than work your sweep. I had to trip my flap skin
quite a bit to make it clear and look even (on both sides). Again, be
conservative and take your time.
Ron F.
-7A, Canopy/baffling/cowling
Message 4
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|
| Subject: | Elevator trim rigging |
Hi Rafael,
Thanks for the post. I have just been working on the same thing. Now I
need to hook up the actuating rod and see if I have the same problem. If it
does, Ill let you know.
In the mean time, thanks for making me aware of a potential problem.
Don Owens
Hi folks!
I would appreciate some help. Im trying to rig up the electric trim and
find that I need to trim away quite a bit of metal to eliminate interference
for the full down trim.
I followed Vans instructions regarding the positioning of the trim motor
mount. As you can see from the pictures, though still within the opening
footprint,
the actuating rod turned out pretty close to the inboard edge. (I thought
about centering the mounts at the time, but decided to trust the plans.)
After installing the trim system, there is a slight miss-alignment, but
nothing that would cause stress in the system. I made some marks on the
max, min, and half-way travel of the actuating rod. I then adjusted the
length for no trim at the half-way point.
What worries me most is the amount of metal I have to file out to prevent
the actuating rod from contacting the elevator under max down trim. As you
can see, Ive already removed quite a bit of Aluminum. I hesitate to trim
further without some reassurance.
Vans builders assistance is closed for the weekend, so I thought I would
seek yalls help (I recently moved to Aiken, SC, and Im learning the local
grammar ;))
Thanks and best regards,
Rafael
2:22 PM
Message 5
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The "window" is indeed very small. IIRC, I had a window 1/16" wide X
5/32" tall.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 9:07 AM
Subject: RE: RV7-List: wing mating
I went with the Van's method... I had a 1/8" sweep and paid attention to
the
Van's "get real" admonishment, mostly because I'm not an engineer and
they
are. But I can see where people strive for perfection. The question I
have
in this regard is what IS the flying difference between, say, 0 sweep
and
1/45" sweep.
One warning to all -- The "window" (i.e. the area) to drill the bolt
hole
in the rear spar fork is MUCH smaller than most people think. Be very
careful about how much you remove in that area.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
colfearnow@earthlink.net
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 7:14 AM
Subject: RV7-List: wing mating
wing mating,
DHall,
I had the same problem...the wing rear spar was too tight. Van's told
me
that a 1/4 to 1/2 is not a big concern...but I wanted zero, or at least
close to it. I had to trim the two mating surfaces to get the sweep to
zero; go slooowwwly and be conservative and it will be perfect.
Remove the flap first than work your sweep. I had to trip my flap skin
quite a bit to make it clear and look even (on both sides). Again, be
conservative and take your time.
Ron F.
-7A, Canopy/baffling/cowling
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