Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:06 AM - Re: (UPDATE) Princeton 18-5B-5S Fuel Senders Won't Calibrate... (Matt Dralle)
2. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: (UPDATE) Princeton 18-5B-5S Fuel Senders Won't Calibrate... (Robert Meer)
3. 05:40 PM - Registration vs. Airworthiness - Chicken & The Egg... (Matt Dralle)
4. 07:25 PM - Re: Registration vs. Airworthiness - Chicken & The Egg... (JackBuschmann)
5. 10:13 PM - Mr RV-8 Moves To The Hangar... (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: (UPDATE) Princeton 18-5B-5S Fuel Senders Won't Calibrate... |
Dear Listers,
I was able to get fairly good access to the fuel sender from under the airplane
and so I removed the 5 screws with a right-angle electric screwdriver attachment
and gently pulled the sender about 1" out. As I did this, I noticed that
the tip of the probe seemed to touching the bottom of the fuel tank. Recall that
the probe comes prebent in a "U" shape for RV installations. I thought that
perhaps the tip of the probe touching the tank wasn't a good idea, so I gently
twisted the fuel sender so as to slightly bend the tip of the probe up just
a little bit. I pushed the sending back into the hole and put two screws in
to hold it in normal position. I applied power and pressed the button down to
get it into calibration mode. I got the one flashing LED indicating Empty set
point as before. I pressed the button once again to get the 1/4 set point,
and much to my surprise, I received to next sequence of two flashing lights!!
So I tried the same procedure on the left tank and got the same results! Yahoo!
When I pulled the sender from the tank, the Proseal 100% stuck to the metal tank
and released from the sender. This worked out really well as it formed a nice
gasket. I mixed up a batch of Proseal and applied it to the probe and then
used new screws and reassembled both sides. After the reinstallation, I tested
the power-on/first set point again and was pleased to see that it was still
working! Yahoo!
So, after the Proseal cures, I'll try the calibration with fuel again. Hopefully
it will go through all 5 steps and I can just move on with this!
I was all ready to replace the Princeton's with the standard S&W floats, but when
I got to looking I realized that I had powered the Princeton's with +12v, and
the floats require a 470 ohm to 4.8V. So, changing to the floats would require
rewiring behind the panel and that's a whole lot of work I'm just not up
for right now!! Hopefully the Princeton's will calibrate fully now and I'll be
back on track!
I'll post another update after my calibration escapade...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
At 05:37 PM 4/4/2010 Sunday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>Dear Listers,
>
>I installed Princeton 18-5B-5S Fuel Senders in the left and right fuel tanks with
Proseal (see attached). Last week I installed the wings permanently and today
I torqued all of the fuel lines from the wings to the fuselage. I got 21
gallons in 5.25 gallon increments ready to calibrate the 5-set point Princeton
probes today. They both powered up fine and started flashing the left light
indicating the Empty set point. I pushed the button once per the calibration
instructions to go to the 1/4 level. Instead of getting the #2 led flashing,
I get the all three LEDs flashing sequence indicating that probe "Can't be calibrated"!!!
>
> From the installation manual: CAL Error (three flashing LEDs) - The probe failed
to calibrate. Possible causes: water in the tank (NO), inner brass rod is
shorted to the outside aluminum tube (PROBABLY), Alcohol in the fuel (NO), trying
to calibrate full first instead of empty (NO), or the probe electronics have
failed (MAYBE)." Yeah, you read all that right.
>
>The best part of this story is that I Prosealed these babies in, installed the
wings, and now discover that both probes are defective or what even. How can
this fricken be? Its too late in the game for this. Replacing these stupid
probes is going to be a major pain not to mention the fact that likelihood of
leaks are now going to be high. I just can't believe it. This is so frustrating.
Why didn't the manual advise to check this long before now? Like before
they were installed, during installation, and right after installation before
the Proseal cured?
>
>Oh, did I mention BOTH are bad? How can this be... How disheartening. Please
tell me I'm just mis-reading the calibration instructions...?
>
>I'm going to go out on a limb here and say avoid these piles of garbage...
>
>Matt Dralle
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: (UPDATE) Princeton 18-5B-5S Fuel Senders Won't Calibrate... |
I read Matt Dralle's experience with his fuel senders. I have standard
senders in my RV7A. My only comment is that no matter how much effort you
put into installing and calibrating the fuel senders, can you really rely on
them? I have heard many times that the only time such gauges are accurate
is when they say the tanks are empty. I guess what I am trying to say is
they are only at best a rough indication of fuel quanity and should not
relied upon to determine how much more time is available. My system also
has a fuel flow device which measures the actual fuel going to the engine.
It is very accurate, but again, how safe is it to rely upon. The best
method is to know the fuel on board, then use a very conservative estimate
of fuel usage per hour and simply calculate how much time this makes
available.
Robert Meer
9154 West Flamingo Way
Littleton, CO 80125
(303) 534-7178
(303) 825-9147 (fax)
robert@meerandmeer.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: RV7-List: Re: (UPDATE) Princeton 18-5B-5S Fuel Senders Won't
Calibrate...
Dear Listers,
I was able to get fairly good access to the fuel sender from under the
airplane and so I removed the 5 screws with a right-angle electric
screwdriver attachment and gently pulled the sender about 1" out. As I did
this, I noticed that the tip of the probe seemed to touching the bottom of
the fuel tank. Recall that the probe comes prebent in a "U" shape for RV
installations. I thought that perhaps the tip of the probe touching the
tank wasn't a good idea, so I gently twisted the fuel sender so as to
slightly bend the tip of the probe up just a little bit. I pushed the
sending back into the hole and put two screws in to hold it in normal
position. I applied power and pressed the button down to get it into
calibration mode. I got the one flashing LED indicating Empty set point as
before. I pressed the button once again to get the 1/4 set point, and much
to my surprise, I received to next sequence of two flashing lights!! So I
tried the same procedure on the left tank and!
got the same results! Yahoo!
When I pulled the sender from the tank, the Proseal 100% stuck to the metal
tank and released from the sender. This worked out really well as it formed
a nice gasket. I mixed up a batch of Proseal and applied it to the probe
and then used new screws and reassembled both sides. After the
reinstallation, I tested the power-on/first set point again and was pleased
to see that it was still working! Yahoo!
So, after the Proseal cures, I'll try the calibration with fuel again.
Hopefully it will go through all 5 steps and I can just move on with this!
I was all ready to replace the Princeton's with the standard S&W floats, but
when I got to looking I realized that I had powered the Princeton's with
+12v, and the floats require a 470 ohm to 4.8V. So, changing to the floats
would require rewiring behind the panel and that's a whole lot of work I'm
just not up for right now!! Hopefully the Princeton's will calibrate fully
now and I'll be back on track!
I'll post another update after my calibration escapade...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
At 05:37 PM 4/4/2010 Sunday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>Dear Listers,
>
>I installed Princeton 18-5B-5S Fuel Senders in the left and right fuel
>tanks with Proseal (see attached). Last week I installed the wings
permanently and today I torqued all of the fuel lines from the wings to the
fuselage. I got 21 gallons in 5.25 gallon increments ready to calibrate the
5-set point Princeton probes today. They both powered up fine and started
flashing the left light indicating the Empty set point. I pushed the button
once per the calibration instructions to go to the 1/4 level. Instead of
getting the #2 led flashing, I get the all three LEDs flashing sequence
indicating that probe "Can't be calibrated"!!!
>
> From the installation manual: CAL Error (three flashing LEDs) - The
> probe failed to calibrate. Possible causes: water in the tank (NO), inner
brass rod is shorted to the outside aluminum tube (PROBABLY), Alcohol in the
fuel (NO), trying to calibrate full first instead of empty (NO), or the
probe electronics have failed (MAYBE)." Yeah, you read all that right.
>
>The best part of this story is that I Prosealed these babies in,
>installed the wings, and now discover that both probes are defective or
what even. How can this fricken be? Its too late in the game for this.
Replacing these stupid probes is going to be a major pain not to mention the
fact that likelihood of leaks are now going to be high. I just can't
believe it. This is so frustrating. Why didn't the manual advise to check
this long before now? Like before they were installed, during installation,
and right after installation before the Proseal cured?
>
>Oh, did I mention BOTH are bad? How can this be... How disheartening.
>Please tell me I'm just mis-reading the calibration instructions...?
>
>I'm going to go out on a limb here and say avoid these piles of
>garbage...
>
>Matt Dralle
Message 3
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| Subject: | Registration vs. Airworthiness - Chicken & The Egg... |
I've gotten some conflicting reports. Do you have your final registration cert
from the FAA in hand before you can apply for your Airworthiness cert, or is
the pink copy of the registration sufficient?
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Building Log
Final Bits - Inspection then Test Flight...
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Registration vs. Airworthiness - Chicken & The Egg... |
Having done this last October, the pink copy is acceptable. It takes months for
you to get the "permanent" copy.
Jack Buschmann
RV-7A, N397V
FTG
-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>Sent: Apr 6, 2010 8:37 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV7-List: Registration vs. Airworthiness - Chicken & The Egg...
>
>
>
>I've gotten some conflicting reports. Do you have your final registration cert
from the FAA in hand before you can apply for your Airworthiness cert, or is
the pink copy of the registration sufficient?
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Building Log
>Final Bits - Inspection then Test Flight...
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Mr RV-8 Moves To The Hangar... |
Thought I'd share a couple of pictures of the 'ol RV-8 project now that its moved
to the hangar... Since these were taken the wings have been put on.
Won't be long now!!
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Building Log
Final Bits And Pieces...
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