Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:35 AM - Re: RV-8 Take Off Performance (Johnson James Maj 320 AEW/SE)
2. 08:26 AM - FW: RV-8 STOL (Bert Penney)
3. 08:49 AM - New books for Homebuilders (sonja.englert@juno.com)
4. 08:51 PM - Re: Backyard Runway (pcowper@webtv.net (Pete Cowper))
Message 1
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| Subject: | RV-8 Take Off Performance |
--> RV8-List message posted by: Johnson James Maj 320 AEW/SE <james.johnson@seeb.af.mil>
Hi Tony,
Good for you! Glad you're making a move on the project. In May huh? Well,
probably pretty good chance I'll still be over here in the mideast, already
been here a month. Tim is still in ALM tho so hopefully you'll see him!
The RV is a great plane. I own a Rocket now but the concept is the same!
Yup, Dori and I got married before i left for here and she is gainfully
employed as a Dr. at home! She should be there too, I'll tell her to look
for you!
Good luck on the record attempt this year! At least it's still fun trying!
Jj
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Johnson [mailto:tonyjohnson@cfl.rr.com]
Subject: Re: RV8-List: RV-8 Take Off Performance
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Tony Johnson" <tonyjohnson@cfl.rr.com>
Jj,
Tony Johnson here, the glider guy from Orlando to whom you gave a Yak ride
in May. I hope all is well with you. I also hope that your fianc, perhaps
by now your wife, changed her mind about the FBI.
I bought a partially finished RV8A kit, past the quickbuild stage, and
brought it home to Orlando from Chicago. It arrived Sunday night and is
tucked away in a storage unit till I complete renovations on a house that
will include a workshop.
Stan Nelson and I plan to make our annual pilgrimage to Alamogordo in May,
to try for that elusive world distance record.
Regards to Tim Lewis.
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johnson James Maj 320 AEW/SE" <james.johnson@seeb.af.mil>
Subject: RE: RV8-List: RV-8 Take Off Performance
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Johnson James Maj 320 AEW/SE
<james.johnson@seeb.af.mil>
>
> Bert,
>
> I've been watching this exchange and can't stand it anymore. If you are
> seriously thinking of using 700' as a runway, I'm sure it won't be too
long
> before I read about you in the accident reports. The RV design, I've
owned
> 4 and now have a Rocket, is wonderful and 300' is possible, if you don't
> mind paying for brakes and frequent near full stall approaches. But if
you
> scew up, if the wind blows wrong, if there is a wind shear...if, if, if,
> you'll be a statistic. Never plan for the minimum. When I made an
> emergency landing last year on a small road in a mountain at 8,500' MSL on
> 650 feet of a stretch of straight road, I was thankful for the design of
the
> plane and it's capabilites. But EVERYTHING worked perfect, including
> temperature, winds and luck. Someone mentioned earlier 1,500 feet. I'd
say
> that as a minimum. Never tempt luck, your skills may need to use some
every
> now and then.
>
> Jj
> Rocket Driver
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bert Penney [mailto:van@entechnos.com]
> To: rv8-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV8-List: RV-8 Take Off Performance
>
>
> --> RV8-List message posted by: "Bert Penney" <van@entechnos.com>
>
> Hi Norman,
>
> I believe that I can squeeze about 700' out of my lot for a runway.
> What first started me thinking about building a runway was the intro
> video from Van's. In it, they say that Van lived on a farm with a 650'
> runway. It seemed to imply that he had used that runway for at least
> his early designs so I thought if he can use 650', 700' ought to work.
> To be safe, though, I thought that I would restrict my take off and
> landing weights to around that of solo operations (1600 lb ?).
>
> Bert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norman [mailto:nhunger@sprint.ca]
> To: rv8-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV8-List: RV-8 Take Off Performance
>
> --> RV8-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
>
> Hey Bert, how much room do you have? There was a very long discussion on
> this list a few years ago on just exactly what is a safe amount of room.
> One
> consensus was that the landing would be more demanding. The other was
> that
> it is really up to the pilots skill. Most people came up with a number
> that
> was to their personal comfort. I recall deciding mine would be 1500 ft.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
> Do not archive
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone had real world take off performance numbers
> > for an RV-8. I know that Van's says 250 ft solo and 500 ft gross, but
> I
> > would like to confirm those numbers. I would also like to get a
> handle
> > on the take off over a 50' obstacle numbers. The reason I am so
> > interested is that I would like to build a runway in my back yard, and
> I
> > don't have a lot of room plus I have some trees that I will have to
> > clear at the end.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bert
>
>
Message 2
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "Bert Penney" <van@entechnos.com>
Hi All,
Here's Ken Scott's response to my query (posted with his permission).
His response seems to be in line with that of most on this list: Using
a 700' strip in an RV-8 is do-able, but not recommended.
He also mentions VG's as Rob Ray has and I think I will look into them
as well. They are a lot simpler than drooped ailerons ans easier to
install and maintain.
Bert
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Scott [mailto:kens@vansaircraft.com]
Subject: Re: RV-8 STOL
Van operates RVs out of a 660' strip (with good approaches)
without undue drama...however, Van is a better pilot than most of
us. Getting out of a strip that length, especially with a constant
speed prop, should be relatively easy. Getting in will test your
skills every time.
We really don't have any suggestions about lowering the stall
speed, other than keeping the airplane as light as humanly
possible. Van tried drooping ailerons on the RV-3 (which has a
very similar wing) and discarded the idea as not providing enough
benefit for the cost in complexity.
A few pilots are experimenting with vortex generators and claim
lowered stall speeds. We have not had the opportunity to try them
here.
If I were faced with consistent landings on a strip that short, I'd
want the RV-8A, which I find that I can consistently land in a
shorter distance than I can the RV-8.
Understand that full-stall landings are a difficult thing in an RV.
Usually you fly the airplane onto the ground several knots above
stall, so even if you touch down at a low 60 mph, you're traveling 88
feet per second. That means that if you mis-judge by ONE
second, you've used up about 12% of your strip. Two seconds
(one...two...) and you're in the hole by 25%.
I'd think very hard before operating out of 700'. It's doable, but you
will have to fly very consistently and very accurately.
Forwarded by: "Support" <Support>
Forwarded to: KenS
Date forwarded: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:32:10 -0800
Subject: RV-8 STOL
Date sent: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:14:44 -0700
From: "Bert Penney" <van@entechnos.com>
Hi,
I wasn't sure if this is the proper place to pose questions about
aircraft mods, but I thought I'd try.
I am in the early stages of building my RV-8 (empennage) and I have
been giving some consideration to building a runway on my property.
The problem is, I have around 700' max that I can use for a runway.
I know that the specs say that, solo, an 8 will take off in 250' and,
at
gross, in 500'. That doesn't give me a lot of comfort, especially as
the 8 approaches gross. Since I can't increase the length of the
runway, I figured I should look at some way to decrease the 8's runway
requirements. The most obvious way is to decrease the 8's stall
speed. With that in mind, I thought that including some way of
drooping the ailerons to assist the flaps would be a good option. Do
you have any plans available to droop the 8's ailerons? Do you know
of anyone who has done it in the past? Do you have any suggestions as
to how I might do that or if I should avoid trying it? Any other
suggestions to lower the stall speed?
Thank you for your time
Bert Penney
80821
Message 3
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| Subject: | New books for Homebuilders |
--> RV8-List message posted by: sonja.englert@juno.com
Hi everyone,
I would like to introduce myself to this group. I am an aeronautical engineer,
pilot, airplane homebuilder and writer. I have written 3 new books for airplane
homebuilders, which you can check out on my web page www.caroengineering.com.
They are mainly for airplane homebuilders, but should be of interest to anyone
who wants to install engines, work with composites or flight test an airplane.
Cheers,
Sonja Englert
www.caroengineering.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Backyard Runway |
--> RV8-List message posted by: pcowper@webtv.net (Pete Cowper)
>Are there neighbors living there that don't mind 360 straight pipe
cubes roaring over at 20'AGL?
Come on, no challenge is too difficult for homebuilders.
But . . . after Bert buys up at least a 1,500 foot strip of adjoining
property from his neighbors for a minimal landing strip . . . he will
then find himself in the position of municipal airports who must keep
puchasing complaining neighbor's properties or sound proofing their
homes.
If buying up the neighborhood is still cheaper than paying a few decades
of hanger rent at the local airport, it's a thought.
Otherwise, aren't there some helicopter kits out there?
Pete Cowper
Lawyer-Pilots Bar Association member
RV-8 #81139
N666PC reserved
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