Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:09 AM - Re: RV8-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 02/15/04 (Steve Hunt)
2. 07:51 AM - Mattituck (Doug Ripley)
3. 01:49 PM - Engines (Doug Ripley)
4. 02:03 PM - Re: Engines (RV8ter@aol.com)
5. 02:05 PM - Re: Engines (RV8ter@aol.com)
6. 02:10 PM - Re: Mattituck (scott)
7. 08:39 PM - Re: Engines (Ken Dominy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV8-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 02/15/04 |
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Steve Hunt" <stephen.hunt19@btinternet.com>
Stan,
many thanks for that. Living in cool damp Yorkshire this really matters to
me. My empennage and wing materials are primed with PR 143(dont know the mil
spec) on top of a keyed up surface which has been allumipreped, then
alocrhomed. All mating surfaces are interfayed with jc 5a. I `m very happy
with that. However, running out of time we got a QB fuselage and are still
looking how to protect it.
We can get the dupont cleaner OK and will look at the Marhyde.
Many thanks for the info,
rgds
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV8-List Digest Server" <rv8-list-digest@matronics.com>
Subject: RV8-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 02/15/04
> *
>
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>
> RV8-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 02/15/04: 4
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:54 AM - RV8 Floors (Mickey Coggins)
> 2. 05:15 PM - Re: Floor Rivnuts (Speedy11@aol.com)
> 3. 05:20 PM - Re: RV8-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/14/04
(Speedy11@aol.com)
> 4. 05:57 PM - Re: Marhyde Primer (Speedy11@aol.com)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:54:45 AM PST US
> From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> Subject: RV8-List: RV8 Floors
>
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>
> >I'm talking about the standard BF Goodrich Installation tool with the
lever
> >action and quick slide disengage as opposed to some of the cobbled up
> >installers I've seen which don't amount to much more than a bolt and
washer.
>
> Hi,
>
> Is this tool sold by ACS?
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/speedriv.php
>
> I was also considering using these plastic clipnuts:
>
> http://www.marketingmasters.us/mmintro.htm
>
> It seems like platenuts are severe overkill for the floors and
> baggage areas, not to mention a lot of work!
>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:15:04 PM PST US
> From: Speedy11@aol.com
> Subject: RV8-List: Re: Floor Rivnuts
>
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/15/04 2:58:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> rv8-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>
> << It gives me the same functionality as the
> platenuts but with a rivnut speed installer tool you can install rivnuts
in
> 30 seconds each. >>
>
> Esten,
> Great idea. Wish I had known about Rivnuts before. I also made the
baggage
> floor removable, but I did it the hard way with platenuts. I like your
idea
> better - although I've never used Rivnuts.
> Stan Sutterfield
> RV-8A
> Tampa
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:20:02 PM PST US
> From: Speedy11@aol.com
> Subject: RV8-List: Re: RV8-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/14/04
>
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/15/04 2:58:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> rv8-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>
> << Anyway it's marked "AS3-125 2.625
> x 3.5" . If anyone can remember this guy I'd appreciate it. >>
>
> Oh no, Rich!! That is the center bracket of the airplane that everything
> attaches to and it holds the plane together.
> Sounds like that plane is worthless - you better let me take it off your
> hands and dispose of it.
> Stan
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:57:21 PM PST US
> From: Speedy11@aol.com
> Subject: RV8-List: Re: Marhyde Primer
>
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/15/04 2:58:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> rv8-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>
> << Vans that all you guys in the States were very happy with the
> wash primer and that it was only the Europeans who had a "thing about
> primer". It`s nice to see that I am not alone in my concerns. I am not
> familiar with Marhyde. >>
>
> Steve,
> Van's is wrong. Most guys I've talked to are concerned about corrosion
and
> are willing to do what's necessary to reduce its impact.
> I'm using Marhyde because:
> 1. It's readily available. I buy it at a local paint store, but it's
> available via the internet.
> 2. It's easy to use. I scotchbrite the surface to be primed and clean it
> with a DuPont cleaner (can't remember the product number but can get it
for you
>
> if you want it) before priming. I've sprayed surfaces after only
cleaning - no
>
> scotchbrite - but the primer doesn't stick as well.
> 3. No mixing required. You can buy it in gallons for spray guns or in
rattle
> cans for touchup or small jobs.
> 4. It's self etching so no prep work required.
> 5. My limited experience with it indicates it provides a fairly good
> mechanical corrosion barrier. So far, I'm happy with it and I believe it
will
> assist
> in avoiding long term corrosion.
> Stan Sutterfield
> RV-8A
> Tampa, FL
>
>
Message 2
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "Doug Ripley" <dougr@hurricanefilter.com>
Does anyone on the list have experience with Mattituck? I am thinking about purchasing
a new experimental IO-360 from them and would appreciate any input from
listers.
I recently sent a deposit in for an engine to a well-known (perhaps one of the
best known) supplier of the experimental Lycoming clone. I had a quote in writing
that showed a price for the new engine plus a $1000 adder for a 3 year extended
warranty. I mailed in a deposit check along with an order form for the
quoted amount less $1000 for the extended warranty. They called back and told
me that the price quoted was actually for the standard warranty, and the engine
would cost $1000 more than quoted!!!!!
At the bottom of the quote there is a statement that if there is a price increase
during the build-time of the engine that it would be passed on and charged
at time of delivery. In other words, they can charge me whatever they want after
waiting 4 weeks for them to build the engine. I would normally not worry
about this.....I tend to trust people more than I should, but they have just proven
to me that the quote is worthless!!!!! I will get my deposit back, so nothing
lost but a couple of weeks spent deciding on a supplier. But, imagine
if I would have waited the full 4 weeks to find out.....I'm ready for the engine!
If any of you are purchasing an engine, DO NOT ACCEPT A QUOTATION FROM AN ENGINE
SUPPLIER THAT ALLOWS A PRICE INCREASE DURING THE BUILD!!!!!!! The company I
was dealing with is probably the only one that does this, so you'll know if you
run across this. Make them remove that statement from the quotation, or go
to another source. There are options.
Doug Ripley
RV-8 N821DT (reserved)
Message 3
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "Doug Ripley" <dougr@hurricanefilter.com>
Hello all:
My partner and I have spent the last month finalizing on the engine decision after
thinking about it since the day the tail kit arrived. We decided early in
the game to go with a new aircraft engine, and not long ago decided that one
of the Lycoming clones was the best deal when considering cost and reliability.
I thought that some of what we have learned may help others make their decision.
Superior and ECI are head-to-head competitors. They both build Lycoming clone
parts. ECI is not in the experimental engine building business, they just sell
parts to the people that do, such as Penn Yan, Aerosport Power, and Mattituck.
Superior, however, is in the business of building experimental engines, and
they require their distributors to sell at the same price they do. If you buy
a "Superior" engine, it will cost the same regardless of who you buy from,
AND it would be made from the exact same parts. The decision making process would
be narrowed down to freight costs and reputation of the engine builder.
There are a handful of engine builders that use ECI parts, and pricing as well
as warranty are up to the engine builder. All of the quotes we got were within
2% of each other, and warranties were close as well. Also, the engines quoted
using ECI parts were very close in price to the "Superior" engine's prices.
Our final decision was made based on the engine builder's reputation, delivery,
and warranty coverage without extra costs. Personal experiences with each
engine builder during this process had perhaps the largest impact on the decision.
Superior makes that new composite oil sump for front-draft cold air induction.
The first time we talked to them they offered it carbureted and we could use
the scoopless cowl and Van's snorkel....just had to rig up carb heat and get a
different exhaust. The composite sump is a different shape than the cast aluminum.
It fits in the cowl, but Van's does not offer an exhaust that fits the
Superior composite sump. So, Superior sent an engine to Vetterman, and he built
an exhaust. I spoke to a builder that has this engine with the new exhaust
that Vetterman designed, and he said it works perfectly, and Van's snorkel for
the front-draft injection servo fits fine, also. Any time I asked Van's about
this combination of engine/exhaust/cowl, etc. they would not comment because
it's not Lycoming, and they're not familiar with it. They did, however, say
that they plan to build an airplane up with this combination so they can speak
intelligently about it and add the FWF components to their product line, which
would include Vetterman's exhaust.
The composite sump weighs 9 lbs less than the M1B style sump that Van's offers
on the Lycoming IO360. We ordered the finish kit with the scoopless cowl. We
were about ready to order the engine a month ago, but we learned that Superior
put the carbureted version on hold due to complications with their prototype
RV7 that was experiencing rough engine in the mid throttle range. So, we switch
to fuel injection since we already ordered and received the finish kit with
the scoopless cowl, but later (last Friday) learned that the composite sump
was $1000 more than the cast aluminum.....something that we were not made aware
of until very recently.....in fact after we mailed a deposit for them to start
building the engine.
All of the problems were a result of trying to get a carbureted engine in a scoopless
cowl before the R&D was complete. Not really our fault because Superior
If we had to do it again, we would have a standard carbureted up-draft O-360
180 hp, but I'm sure that once the pain and anguish of spending extra $$$ on
fuel injection is overwith, the bird will look great without the engine air
scoop on the cowl.
Doug Ripley
RV-8 N821DT reserved....nearing completion.
Message 4
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--> RV8-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
In a message dated 2/16/2004 4:49:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dougr@hurricanefilter.com writes:
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Doug Ripley" <dougr@hurricanefilter.com>
Hello all:
SNIP
If we had to do it again, we would have a standard carbureted up-draft O-360
180 hp, but I'm sure that once the pain and anguish of spending extra $$$ on
fuel injection is overwith, the bird will look great without the engine air
scoop on the cowl.
Doug Ripley
RV-8 N821DT reserved....nearing completion.
Interesting story. Would you have still chosen Superior if you would have
just gone with a carb'ed flavored O-360? Mattituk seems to have a better price
and twice the warranty as Superior when I was comparing recently.
lucky
Message 5
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--> RV8-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
In a message dated 2/16/2004 4:49:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dougr@hurricanefilter.com writes:
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Doug Ripley" <dougr@hurricanefilter.com>
Hello all:
SNIP
If we had to do it again, we would have a standard carbureted up-draft O-360
180 hp, but I'm sure that once the pain and anguish of spending extra $$$ on
fuel injection is overwith, the bird will look great without the engine air
scoop on the cowl.
Doug Ripley
RV-8 N821DT reserved....nearing completion.
Interesting story. Would you have still chosen Superior if you would have
just gone with a carb'ed flavored O-360? Mattituk seems to have a better price
and twice the warranty as Superior when I was comparing recently.
lucky
Message 6
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "scott" <sclarkson@tellurian.net>
Hi Doug,
Last May I received my XP-360 from Mattituck and can say that I am extremely
happy. The are a class act that have been in the business longer than most
and I can't say I've ever heard anything bad about them.
I think I was one of the last to receive a true XP-360 from Mattituck before
Superior decided to build them up themselves and Mattituck started their new
clone. When I was ready to buy I kept checking Superior and Mattituck's
site for pricing and I noticed that Superior raised the price from $22900 to
$24900 for a fuel injected IO-360. Mattituck was still advertising $22900.
I figured Mattituck just didn't update their site but when I called they
assured me that $22900 was the price even after Superior's had gone up. The
deposit went out the next day and I was assured the price we agreed on would
be the price I paid. Sure enough it was. The only additional cost was a
more than fair delivery charge to my door for $100. Considering they had a
large part in the design changes in the XP-360 I though they were a safe
bet. Heck, I even got a Christmas card from them this year!
Good Luck,
Scott Clarkson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Ripley" <dougr@hurricanefilter.com>
Subject: RV8-List: Mattituck
> --> RV8-List message posted by: "Doug Ripley" <dougr@hurricanefilter.com>
>
> Does anyone on the list have experience with Mattituck? I am thinking
about purchasing a new experimental IO-360 from them and would appreciate
any input from listers.
>
> I recently sent a deposit in for an engine to a well-known (perhaps one of
the best known) supplier of the experimental Lycoming clone. I had a quote
in writing that showed a price for the new engine plus a $1000 adder for a 3
year extended warranty. I mailed in a deposit check along with an order
form for the quoted amount less $1000 for the extended warranty. They
called back and told me that the price quoted was actually for the standard
warranty, and the engine would cost $1000 more than quoted!!!!!
>
> At the bottom of the quote there is a statement that if there is a price
increase during the build-time of the engine that it would be passed on and
charged at time of delivery. In other words, they can charge me whatever
they want after waiting 4 weeks for them to build the engine. I would
normally not worry about this.....I tend to trust people more than I should,
but they have just proven to me that the quote is worthless!!!!! I will get
my deposit back, so nothing lost but a couple of weeks spent deciding on a
supplier. But, imagine if I would have waited the full 4 weeks to find
out.....I'm ready for the engine!
>
> If any of you are purchasing an engine, DO NOT ACCEPT A QUOTATION FROM AN
ENGINE SUPPLIER THAT ALLOWS A PRICE INCREASE DURING THE BUILD!!!!!!! The
company I was dealing with is probably the only one that does this, so
you'll know if you run across this. Make them remove that statement from
the quotation, or go to another source. There are options.
>
> Doug Ripley
> RV-8 N821DT (reserved)
>
>
Message 7
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Dominy" <abqmooney@excite.com>
I checked the same companies, and selected Penn Yan because I wanted the front
entry induction, and an aluminum sump (which cost me an extra grand from a suplier
in St louis.) I also specified the 9.0 : 1 pistons. Penn Yan also included
shipping in their price as well as dynamic balancing which others quote extra.)
The price beat Superior (my original thought) by almost $3000, delivered
to Albuquerque, with a 2 year guarantee. I also sent my O360 from my Mooney
to them for overhaul. I did have a couple of minor issues regarding parts returned.
This had to do with correct part numbers for the engine, but not the Mooney
M20g installation, which requires alternate parts numbers. They did support
me though, with no extra charges for the correct parts for the Mooney. I
have about 15 hours on the engine since installation. Oil utilization has stabilized
and I now consider the engine "broken-in." So far, I am satisfied!---
On Mon 02/16, Doug Ripley dougr@hurricanefilte
r.com wrote:From: Doug Ripley [mailto: dougr@hurricanefilter.com]To: rv8-list@matronics.comDate: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:48:51 -0500Subject: RV8-List: Engines-- RV8-List message posted by: "Doug Ripley" Hello all:My partner and I have spent the last month finalizing on the engine decision after thinking about it since the day the tail kit arrived. We decided early in the game to go with a new aircraft engine, and not long ago decided that one of the Lycoming clones was the best deal when considering cost and reliability. I thought that some of what we have learned may help others make their decision.Superior and ECI are head-to-head competitors. They both build Lycoming clone parts. ECI is not in the experimental engine building business, they just sell parts to the people that do, such as Penn Yan, Aerosport Power, and Mattituck. Superior, however, is in the business of building experimental engines, and they require their distributors to sell at the same price they do
. If you buy a "Superior" engine, it will cost the same regardless of who you
buy from, AND it would be made from the exact same parts. The decision making
process would be narrowed down to freight costs and reputation of the engine builder.There
are a handful of engine builders that use ECI parts, and pricing
as well as warranty are up to the engine builder. All of the quotes we got were
within 2% of each other, and warranties were close as well. Also, the engines
quoted using ECI parts were very close in price to the "Superior" engine's prices.
Our final decision was made based on the engine builder's reputation, delivery,
and warranty coverage without extra costs. Personal experiences with
each engine builder during this process had perhaps the largest impact on the
decision.Superior makes that new composite oil sump for front-draft cold air induction.
The first time we talked to them they offered it carbureted and we could
use the scoopless cowl and Van's snorkel....just
had to rig up carb heat and get a different exhaust. The composite sump is a
different shape than the cast aluminum. It fits in the cowl, but Van's does not
offer an exhaust that fits the Superior composite sump. So, Superior sent an
engine to Vetterman, and he built an exhaust. I spoke to a builder that has this
engine with the new exhaust that Vetterman designed, and he said it works
perfectly, and Van's snorkel for the front-draft injection servo fits fine, also.
Any time I asked Van's about this combination of engine/exhaust/cowl, etc.
they would not comment because it's not Lycoming, and they're not familiar with
it. They did, however, say that they plan to build an airplane up with this
combination so they can speak intelligently about it and add the FWF components!to
their product line, which would include Vetterman's exhaust.The composite
sump weighs 9 lbs less than the M1B style sump that Van's offers on the Lycoming
IO360. We ordered the finish kit with the scoopl
ess cowl. We were about ready to order the engine a month ago, but we learned
that Superior put the carbureted version on hold due to compl
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