Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:27 AM - RV8 Fastback is Flying (Clark, Thomas IFC)
3. 08:47 AM - Re: RV8 Fastback is Flying (Rabaut, Chuck)
4. 11:14 AM - RV8 Cowl Exit Area (Applicable to RV8 Cowls delivered in 2000 or earlier) (Esten Spears)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the RV8-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RV8-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV8-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV8-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV8-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV8-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV8-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV8-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 2
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| Subject: | RV8 Fastback is Flying |
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Clark, Thomas IFC" <Tom.Clark@UTCFuelCells.com>
RV-list,
One more -8 is Flying,
After close to six years of building...and flying two other
distractions, I finally got a highly modified RV8 Fastback in the air
Tuesday night. No issues, no problems and performance is outstanding.
Plane has an IO-360A1B 200+ hp with a Hartzell counterweighted CS
aerobatic prop, 4 into 1 exhaust, Sky Dynamics cold air intake and
sump system, inverted oil, a completely modified upper fuselage and
canopy, plus Grove Aluminum gear.
I put a quick picture in the RV8 Yahoo site picture folder.
Tom Clark
525TC RV8 Fastback
Tom Clark
Design & Mechanical Systems Manager
UTC Fuel Cells, 195 Gov. Hwy
South Windsor, CT
860-727-2287 Office
860-604-5826 Cell
860-727-7666 Fax
e-mail: tom.clark@utcfuelcells.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | RV8 Fastback is Flying |
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Rabaut, Chuck" <Chuck.Rabaut@fresnosheriff.org>
Tom,
Please send some pics to the list; for those of us who don't "Yahooo".
Thanks,
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clark, Thomas
IFC
Subject: RV8-List: RV8 Fastback is Flying
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Clark, Thomas IFC" <Tom.Clark@UTCFuelCells.com>
RV-list,
One more -8 is Flying,
After close to six years of building...and flying two other
distractions, I finally got a highly modified RV8 Fastback in the air
Tuesday night. No issues, no problems and performance is outstanding.
Plane has an IO-360A1B 200+ hp with a Hartzell counterweighted CS
aerobatic prop, 4 into 1 exhaust, Sky Dynamics cold air intake and
sump system, inverted oil, a completely modified upper fuselage and
canopy, plus Grove Aluminum gear.
I put a quick picture in the RV8 Yahoo site picture folder.
Tom Clark
525TC RV8 Fastback
Tom Clark
Design & Mechanical Systems Manager
UTC Fuel Cells, 195 Gov. Hwy
South Windsor, CT
860-727-2287 Office
860-604-5826 Cell
860-727-7666 Fax
e-mail: tom.clark@utcfuelcells.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | RV8 Cowl Exit Area (Applicable to RV8 Cowls delivered in 2000 |
or earlier)
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Esten Spears" <ewspears@comcast.net>
Long - Delete Now if not interested in RV8(A) Cooling Problems with early Vans
Cowl
The following is an email exchange between myself and Gus Funnell at Van's. It
follows two separate phone calls to Vans that both times I was assured there were
no different RV8 Cowls;
> > > On 14 Jun 04, at 14:38, Esten Spears wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gus,
> > > > Attached are 3 photos;
> > > > 80922Cowl Exten Measurement shows the lower cowl extension I
> > > > received with my kit (80922) in April 99 (Sun n Fun) You can
> > > > clearly see it has a 2" drop or extension on the lower cowl.
> > > >
> > > > Lower CowlExtension Measurement is a photo of Ray Parker's
> > > > (Builder# 81078) Cowl that he received in July 01. You can
> > > > clearly see it has a 3" drop or extension on the lower cowl.
> > > >
> > > > Lower Cowl is a photo of Ray's lower cowl which you can see a
> > > > new extension has been grafted into it by the cowl vendor. It
> > > > is very obvious when you see it in person and harder to see in
> > > > the photo.
> > > >
> > > > The 3" extension has about 11sq. in. more exit area than the
> > > > 2" extension. Under the worst conditions (Angle Valve Engine,
> > > > NoseGear Obstruction, and HOT Climate) Even the 3" extension
> > > > is marginal. I certainly don't want to use the 2" extension.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gus Funnell" <gusf@vansaircraft.com>
> > To: "Esten Spears" <ewspears@comcast.net>
> > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 6:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: Different RV8A Cowl Extensions
> >
> >
> > > It's true that we have changed the cowl since you received yours
> > > (more than 5 years ago). The fact that we changed it does not
> > > entitle you to a new one at no cost. You received the one that was
> > > current at time of shipping, as did other RV-8/8A builders at that
> > > time. If we had to ship new cowls because we improve the old ones,
> > > that would act as a powerful disincentive to any kind of improvement
> > > in our kits.
> > >
> > > Our RV-8A here has the old style, and it works OK, even in warmer
> > > climates, though I would agree that an extended full power climb may
> > > see elevated oil temps. As you are aware, many early 8 builders
> > > installed louvres on the bottom of their cowls, or enlarged the
> > > outlets to improve cooling, though this has not been necessary on
> > > our 8A. So you may have no problem with the cowl you have in any
> > > case.
From: "Gus Funnell" <gusf@vansaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Different RV8A Cowl Extensions
> On 15 Jun 04, at 0:16, Esten Spears wrote:
>
> > Gus,
> > First off, Thanks for your prompt reply! I do have some issues
> > with your
> > response.
> > 1) Why was I twice adamently told there were no different
> > cowls and
> > only after I sent photos you admitted to the cowl change?
>
> No-one here can remember this kind of thing. The vendor who
> makes the cowls doesn't remember, because we have changed
> vendors and he has only ever made one kind. When I measured our
> 8A it is obvious that it was changed, but even now there is no-one
> at Vans who could tell you exactly when the change occurred, and
> since we did not change the part number there is no indication that
> there was a change.
>
> > 2) The suggestion that I may have no problem anyway is not a
> > good
> > one since carving up or replacing the cowl after a fancy Imron paint
> > job makes no sense. Also while your company 8A has made visits to
> > warmer climates, it basically lives in cold rainy Oregon.
>
> Cold, rainy Oregon routinely gets up into the 90s in summer, and
> what I have seen, flying it in Texas, Florida and Arizona in summer,
> is that the oil temp will get up to 220 or so, the cylinder heads stay
> under 400 all the time.
>
> > 3) Instead of just telling me my request is unreasonable, how
> > about
> > a suggestion to correct the problem that you do think is reasonable.
> > ie. (Maybe Vans or your cowl vendor has a scrap cowl that has a good
> > 3" drop exit on it, in which case you could just cut it out and I
> > could graft it into my existing cowl or Maybe make me a special price
> > on a lower cowl) Esten Spears
> >
> OK, my understanding was that you wanted a new cowl. We don't
> have any scrap cowls. If we find problems with them when they
> come in from the vendor, we send them back to be reworked; they
> are too expensive to throw away.
>
> We could give a you a discounted price on a cowl. It would be $XXX
> (normally $XXX), which is still a lot for a problem that may not exist.
>
> Gus
Gus,
Thanks for the offer and explanation but I've already updated it. See
attached photo. Changing it to a 3" drop was a lot easier than getting my
one piece canopy skirt to fit! When I think of all the headaches, time, and
money various builders have spent trying to get Angle Valve 8A's to cool
properly with the 2" drop cowls it's a shame Van's Aircraft couldn't
disseminate the info. I fully understand you not wanting to replace the 2"
Drop Cowls. But a simple service info letter suggesting that if you are
running an Angle Valve Engine in an 8A and have a 2" Drop Cowl, You might
want to modify it to 3" Drop and give some instructions for doing it. It
wouldn't cost Van's much and could save some builders a lot of grief.
After doing some cooling air intake and exit measurements and
calculations, I don't see why the cowl drop was ever set at 2". The intake
area is 41.25 sq. in. The exit area with a 2" Drop Cowl is 44.5 sq. in. It
is 55.5 sq. in. with a 3" Drop Cowl. All my education and experience tells
me exit areas should be 1.5 to 2 times inlet area! To make matters worse; An
RV8A has a relatively clean entrance with the cowling ramps installed but
has a terribly dirty and turbulent exit which tends to make the required
exit even larger! From an cooling standpoint even the 3" drop exit is
marginal but may be the best compromise considering drag.
Esten Spears
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