Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 PM - "Need Extra Hands" in building a RV-8A QB - Santa Monica, Calif (Garey Wittich)
2. 02:44 PM - IFR instruments (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
3. 03:50 PM - Re: IFR instruments (David Thomas)
4. 05:22 PM - Re: IFR instruments (Tony Johnson)
5. 07:13 PM - Re: IFR instruments (Jerry Hansen)
6. 07:23 PM - Re: IFR instruments (jrstone)
Message 1
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| Subject: | "Need Extra Hands" in building a RV-8A QB - Santa Monica, Calif |
rv8-list@matronics.com, rv9-list@matronics.com, rv-list@matronics.com
--> RV8-List message posted by: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000@yahoo.com>
Greetings:
Any Builders who live in the Santa Monica, Calif area.
Building a RV-8A QB in my garage 5 minutes from Santa
Monica Airport and "need extra hands". Willing to
help somebody with their project TOO. My wife does
not want to get involved and the local EAA Chapter is
all composite builders. At the rate I am making
progress it will take me 5 life times to complete
!!!!!
Thanks,
Garey Wittich (310) 392-1682
__________________________________
Message 2
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<rv6-list@matronics.com>, <rv8-list@matronics.com>,
<rv9-list@matronics.com>,
<rv-list@matronics.com>
1.7 SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS Similar addresses in recipient list
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi Guys,
I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
axis autopilot.
Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k including
the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this set up?
I haven't started IFR training yet so I'm fumbling a little on all the
requirements...Not sure about the "indicator lights" (marker beacon?)
that are apparently built into the Nav head that the GNS 430 would
drive.
Frank
Message 3
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--> RV8-List message posted by: David Thomas <vtol@shaw.ca>
Careful... my suggestion is to fly it before you buy it...the thought of
flushing all that money down the toilet bothers me
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
rv6-list@matronics.com; rv8-list@matronics.com; rv9-list@matronics.com;
rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV8-List: IFR instruments
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi Guys,
I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
axis autopilot.
Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k including
the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this set up?
I haven't started IFR training yet so I'm fumbling a little on all the
requirements...Not sure about the "indicator lights" (marker beacon?)
that are apparently built into the Nav head that the GNS 430 would
drive.
Frank
Message 4
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "Tony Johnson" <tonyjohnson@cfl.rr.com>
Frank,
I am also interested in learning more about the BMA EFIS lite 3. I do have
some concerns about using it for IFR applications.
Let me preface this by saying that I am no expert, and I am not even IFR
rated at this point. It is my understanding that for a GPS to be approved
for IFR it must have a left-right indication and annunciators. The G3 seems
to have the left-right indication, but I did not see any indication that it
had the annuciators. That would add about $750 to the package. The other
issue is that I think, but do not know, that a GPS used for IFR work would
have to be certified (or meet the TSO requirements) for IFR, either enroute
or approach even in an experimental aircraft. I have not seen any
indication that the G3 meets these requirements.
The G3 is an impressive unit, although it lacks some of the features of the
dynon, it has adds more. I did not see any indication that the G3 has AOA
information, OAT, or density altitude.
It does have winds aloft information, both speed and direction.
I am wondering if it will interface with a NAVAID, and take VOR info from a
NARCO Nav radio. I emailed BMA today with those questions. I will be
interested in the observations and knowledge of other listers.
Tony Johnson
RV8A Orlando
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
rv8-list@matronics.com; rv9-list@matronics.com; rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV8-List: IFR instruments
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi Guys,
I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
axis autopilot.
Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k including
the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this set up?
I haven't started IFR training yet so I'm fumbling a little on all the
requirements...Not sure about the "indicator lights" (marker beacon?)
that are apparently built into the Nav head that the GNS 430 would
drive.
Frank
Message 5
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen@cox.net>
Many newer digital autopilots aimed at the experimental market find their
best reference for navigation in a properly configured GPS data stream. The
NMEA 0183 data stream and the AVLINK data stream (from Garmin and others)
adhere to strict standards. Such digital autopilots are designed to accept
data that adheres to these standards, and they typically work remarkably
well when using such precise digital data.
EFIS systems must also get their navigation information from outside
sources, such as GPS. They may then process this information and provide an
output for use by autopilots. If you are going to attach an autopilot to
these systems, you MUST know what processes are being performed to the NMEA
0183 or AVLINK data streams once the EFIS digests it and provides an output
to an autopilot.
Some EFIS systems can get a little tricky in their "Heading" mode. When you
select a heading on the EFIS, they might create a "phantom" waypoint some
distance ahead of the aircraft at the heading that was selected. They then
put this in the data stream, replacing the GPS BTW (Bearing to Waypoint)
data with BTW of the phantom waypoint. The autopilot will then track to
this course if the data is in the correct format. There can be some unknown
parameters here... how far away is the "phantom" waypoint - is the autopilot
capable of tracking to the output data as configured - are all of the
required data passed through from the NMEA information (typically the RMB
and RMC sentences) - and a whole host of other questions that must be
addressed by the EFIS and autopilot manufacturers to assure fail safe
operation.
This is not to say that these systems won't work together. Just a "heads
up" to prompt questions that might be asked of potential suppliers of such
equipment - to be sure that you don't find yourself in a dark cumulus cloud
someday with these questions left unanswered. Check with the systems
manufacturers to get absolute assurance of compatibility. Remember that
many of the EFIS and autopilot systems that are directed to experimental
aircraft are not "certified" and therefore have not been subjected to the
rigorous testing that is demanded by certification. This should create a
huge question mark above your head.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Johnson
Subject: RE: RV8-List: IFR instruments
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Tony Johnson" <tonyjohnson@cfl.rr.com>
Frank,
I am also interested in learning more about the BMA EFIS lite 3. I do have
some concerns about using it for IFR applications.
Let me preface this by saying that I am no expert, and I am not even IFR
rated at this point. It is my understanding that for a GPS to be approved
for IFR it must have a left-right indication and annunciators. The G3 seems
to have the left-right indication, but I did not see any indication that it
had the annuciators. That would add about $750 to the package. The other
issue is that I think, but do not know, that a GPS used for IFR work would
have to be certified (or meet the TSO requirements) for IFR, either enroute
or approach even in an experimental aircraft. I have not seen any
indication that the G3 meets these requirements.
The G3 is an impressive unit, although it lacks some of the features of the
dynon, it has adds more. I did not see any indication that the G3 has AOA
information, OAT, or density altitude.
It does have winds aloft information, both speed and direction.
I am wondering if it will interface with a NAVAID, and take VOR info from a
NARCO Nav radio. I emailed BMA today with those questions. I will be
interested in the observations and knowledge of other listers.
Tony Johnson
RV8A Orlando
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
rv8-list@matronics.com; rv9-list@matronics.com; rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV8-List: IFR instruments
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi Guys,
I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
axis autopilot.
Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k including
the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this set up?
I haven't started IFR training yet so I'm fumbling a little on all the
requirements...Not sure about the "indicator lights" (marker beacon?)
that are apparently built into the Nav head that the GNS 430 would
drive.
Frank
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: IFR instruments |
--> RV8-List message posted by: "jrstone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
The biggest thing you loose is the ability to input more than one waypoint
at a time. So if you want to do a cross country, you have to enter the next
waypoint as you approach the current one. To me, that was a show stopper.
Also in the negative category, the gps is not certified for approaches, the
430 is.
I personally like the Grand Rapids EFIS, it has a built in GPS and has the
nav feature for multiple waypoints.
Jim Stone
HRII
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
<rv6-list@matronics.com>; <rv8-list@matronics.com>;
<rv9-list@matronics.com>; "1.7 SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS Similar addresses in
recipient list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV8-List: IFR instruments
> --> RV8-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
> Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
> for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
> which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
> can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
> axis autopilot.
>
> Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k including
> the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
> comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
>
> Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this set up?
>
> I haven't started IFR training yet so I'm fumbling a little on all the
> requirements...Not sure about the "indicator lights" (marker beacon?)
> that are apparently built into the Nav head that the GNS 430 would
> drive.
>
> Frank
>
>
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