Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:18 AM - Re: silencer (Scott Bilinski)
2. 07:59 AM - Re: silencer (RV8ter@aol.com)
3. 08:38 AM - Re: silencer (Scott Bilinski)
4. 08:43 AM - Cleaning the canopy (Scott Bilinski)
5. 09:11 AM - Re: silencer (Ken Simmons)
6. 10:13 AM - Re: silencer (Scott Bilinski)
7. 10:41 AM - Re: silencer (Ken Simmons)
8. 11:36 AM - Re: silencer (Scott Bilinski)
9. 11:58 AM - Re: silencer (Ken Simmons)
10. 12:09 PM - Re: silencer (Doug Ripley)
Message 1
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--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
An electronic ignition will quiet down the exhaust noise by burning ALL the
mixture in the combustion chamber where it belongs. I have dual electronic
ignition and no mufflers, my plane is quieter than those with mufflers.
At 02:23 PM 9/25/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>--> RV8-List message posted by: romeo.victor@t-online.de (SS)
>
>Dear RV builders,
>
>I just completed my silencers and the noise measuring procedure for my
>RV8. Silencers had been built by myself, noise tests had been performed by
>MT in Straubing.
>
>The silencers are similar to certified silencers here in Germany.
>Sometimes the installation causes increased cylinder temperatures. For the
>moment, I can't acknowledge this in my case. My temperatures vary between
>310-330=B0F, the oil temperature is steady at 195=B0F.
>
>With the installed MT propeller MTV175B59, the noise level during go
>around (Vy 95 KIAS, full power, RPM 2500) is 65 dBa (ICAO). This is below
>the limiting value for my plane, however above the maximum value for the
>low noise category.
>
>Best regards
>
>
>--
>D-EBRV
>80303
>Stephan J.W. Servatius
>Untere Hauptstr. 3
>D-85461 Bockhorn
>Tel. +49-(0)8122-4 83 83
>Fax. +49-(0)8122-902 188
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 2
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--> RV8-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
I've never heard that theory though it sounds plausable. But I have lots of time
in different RVs with and W/O electronic ignition and sad to say I've never
noticed a difference... :-(
In a message dated 9/27/2004 9:18:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
writes:
>--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>An electronic ignition will quiet down the exhaust noise by burning ALL the
>mixture in the combustion chamber where it belongs. I have dual electronic
>ignition and no mufflers, my plane is quieter than those with mufflers.
>
>
>At 02:23 PM 9/25/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>>--> RV8-List message posted by: romeo.victor@t-online.de (SS)
>>
>>Dear RV builders,
>>
>>I just completed my silencers and the noise measuring procedure for my
>>RV8. Silencers had been built by myself, noise tests had been performed by
>>MT in Straubing.
>>
>>The silencers are similar to certified silencers here in Germany.
>>Sometimes the installation causes increased cylinder temperatures. For the
>>moment, I can't acknowledge this in my case. My temperatures vary between
>>310-330=B0F, the oil temperature is steady at 195=B0F.
>>
>>With the installed MT propeller MTV175B59, the noise level during go
>>around (Vy 95 KIAS, full power, RPM 2500) is 65 dBa (ICAO). This is below
>>the limiting value for my plane, however above the maximum value for the
>>low noise category.
>>
>>Best regards
>>
>>
>>--
>>D-EBRV
>>80303
>>Stephan J.W. Servatius
>>Untere Hauptstr. 3
>>D-85461 Bockhorn
>>Tel. +49-(0)8122-4 83 83
>>Fax. +49-(0)8122-902 188
>>
>>
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Message 3
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--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
From the out side the plane it is very noticeable. The first time I
realized the difference I was watching a RV taxi and park and thought it
must have a auto conversion with mufflers because it was so quiet. I walked
over and talked to the pilot and it was a Lycoming with EI. People tell me
that with the dual EI I sound more like a car engine than Lycoming. I also
have a 3 blade WhirlWind 151 prop that is also VERY quiet.
At 10:58 AM 9/27/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV8-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>I've never heard that theory though it sounds plausable. But I have lots
>of time in different RVs with and W/O electronic ignition and sad to say
>I've never noticed a difference... :-(
>
>In a message dated 9/27/2004 9:18:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Scott
>Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> writes:
>
> >--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> >An electronic ignition will quiet down the exhaust noise by burning ALL the
> >mixture in the combustion chamber where it belongs. I have dual electronic
> >ignition and no mufflers, my plane is quieter than those with mufflers.
> >
> >
> >At 02:23 PM 9/25/2004 +0000, you wrote:
> >>--> RV8-List message posted by: romeo.victor@t-online.de (SS)
> >>
> >>Dear RV builders,
> >>
> >>I just completed my silencers and the noise measuring procedure for my
> >>RV8. Silencers had been built by myself, noise tests had been performed by
> >>MT in Straubing.
> >>
> >>The silencers are similar to certified silencers here in Germany.
> >>Sometimes the installation causes increased cylinder temperatures. For the
> >>moment, I can't acknowledge this in my case. My temperatures vary between
> >>310-330=B0F, the oil temperature is steady at 195=B0F.
> >>
> >>With the installed MT propeller MTV175B59, the noise level during go
> >>around (Vy 95 KIAS, full power, RPM 2500) is 65 dBa (ICAO). This is below
> >>the limiting value for my plane, however above the maximum value for the
> >>low noise category.
> >>
> >>Best regards
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>D-EBRV
> >>80303
> >>Stephan J.W. Servatius
> >>Untere Hauptstr. 3
> >>D-85461 Bockhorn
> >>Tel. +49-(0)8122-4 83 83
> >>Fax. +49-(0)8122-902 188
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Scott Bilinski
> >Eng dept 305
> >Phone (858) 657-2536
> >Pager (858) 502-5190
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 4
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| Subject: | Cleaning the canopy |
--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
How does everyone clean the inside of the canopy with out having to be a
contortionist? I am having a real hard time cleaning every inch, mainly the
back third of the canopy.
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 5
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
Scott,
Interesting information. I thought that Whirlwind was not "approving" the 151 on
an engine with EI yet. You have a dual setup running with it. Any issues? Is
Whirlwind aware of your success?
Thanks.
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> From the out side the plane it is very noticeable. The first time I
>realized the difference I was watching a RV taxi and park and thought it
>must have a auto conversion with mufflers because it was so quiet. I walked
>over and talked to the pilot and it was a Lycoming with EI. People tell me
>that with the dual EI I sound more like a car engine than Lycoming. I also
>have a 3 blade WhirlWind 151 prop that is also VERY quiet.
>
>
<snip>
Message 6
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--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
WW has to play it safe from a legal stand point that is why they are not
approving at this time. Yes they know of my success because I keep the
plane on the other side of the airport from them and talk with Jim every
month or so. I also have 9.2:1 compression. I would imagine after hundreds
of hours on the 151 they will remove the "not approved". I currently have
about 100 hrs on the 151. The problem they had in the past with the prop
was on the WW 150 prop, even then it was not a prop issue, but a spinner
bulk head issue. What will happen is that the 3 bolts that hold the spinner
bulk head to the prop hub will shear. The 151 spinner bulk head has 6 bolts
and has been a non issue to date.
At 10:08 AM 9/27/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>
>Scott,
>
>Interesting information. I thought that Whirlwind was not "approving" the
>151 on an engine with EI yet. You have a dual setup running with it. Any
>issues? Is Whirlwind aware of your success?
>
>Thanks.
>Ken
>
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:37:43 -0700
>
> >--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> > From the out side the plane it is very noticeable. The first time I
> >realized the difference I was watching a RV taxi and park and thought it
> >must have a auto conversion with mufflers because it was so quiet. I walked
> >over and talked to the pilot and it was a Lycoming with EI. People tell me
> >that with the dual EI I sound more like a car engine than Lycoming. I also
> >have a 3 blade WhirlWind 151 prop that is also VERY quiet.
> >
> >
><snip>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 7
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
Scott,
Thanks again for the info. Whirlwind is on the top of my list for props. I was
in San Diego this summer and stopped by for a chat. I was impressed. I really
like the looks of a three blade even though your giving up a little performance.
I am also interested in the Hartzell blended airfoil prop. I was a little turned
off by the RPM restrictions, but I had a chat with the Superior guys at Reno
this year. They showed me an email from Hartzell that basically said there were
no restrictions with an XP-360 with mags. Good news, but makes the decision
process a little more difficult, again.
I also got an email from JT with NationAir that stated the Whirlwind props are
covered under the Vanguard program.
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>WW has to play it safe from a legal stand point that is why they are not
>approving at this time. Yes they know of my success because I keep the
>plane on the other side of the airport from them and talk with Jim every
>month or so. I also have 9.2:1 compression. I would imagine after hundreds
>of hours on the 151 they will remove the "not approved". I currently have
>about 100 hrs on the 151. The problem they had in the past with the prop
>was on the WW 150 prop, even then it was not a prop issue, but a spinner
>bulk head issue. What will happen is that the 3 bolts that hold the spinner
>bulk head to the prop hub will shear. The 151 spinner bulk head has 6 bolts
>and has been a non issue to date.
>
>
>At 10:08 AM 9/27/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>>
>>Scott,
>>
>>Interesting information. I thought that Whirlwind was not "approving" the
>>151 on an engine with EI yet. You have a dual setup running with it. Any
>>issues? Is Whirlwind aware of your success?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>Ken
>>
>>
>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:37:43 -0700
>>
>> >--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>> >
>> > From the out side the plane it is very noticeable. The first time I
>> >realized the difference I was watching a RV taxi and park and thought it
>> >must have a auto conversion with mufflers because it was so quiet. I walked
>> >over and talked to the pilot and it was a Lycoming with EI. People tell me
>> >that with the dual EI I sound more like a car engine than Lycoming. I also
>> >have a 3 blade WhirlWind 151 prop that is also VERY quiet.
>> >
>> >
>><snip>
>>
>>
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
The biggest benefit to the WW 151 prop is that they are light (28lbs
lighter than Hartzell), smooth, and quiet, actually very quiet compared to
other props. You really need to hear a plane with a 151 take off and you
notice a big difference.
At 11:40 AM 9/27/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>
>Scott,
>
>Thanks again for the info. Whirlwind is on the top of my list for props. I
>was in San Diego this summer and stopped by for a chat. I was impressed. I
>really like the looks of a three blade even though your giving up a little
>performance.
>
>I am also interested in the Hartzell blended airfoil prop. I was a little
>turned off by the RPM restrictions, but I had a chat with the Superior
>guys at Reno this year. They showed me an email from Hartzell that
>basically said there were no restrictions with an XP-360 with mags. Good
>news, but makes the decision process a little more difficult, again.
>
>I also got an email from JT with NationAir that stated the Whirlwind props
>are covered under the Vanguard program.
>
>Ken
>
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:12:14 -0700
>
> >--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> >WW has to play it safe from a legal stand point that is why they are not
> >approving at this time. Yes they know of my success because I keep the
> >plane on the other side of the airport from them and talk with Jim every
> >month or so. I also have 9.2:1 compression. I would imagine after hundreds
> >of hours on the 151 they will remove the "not approved". I currently have
> >about 100 hrs on the 151. The problem they had in the past with the prop
> >was on the WW 150 prop, even then it was not a prop issue, but a spinner
> >bulk head issue. What will happen is that the 3 bolts that hold the spinner
> >bulk head to the prop hub will shear. The 151 spinner bulk head has 6 bolts
> >and has been a non issue to date.
> >
> >
> >At 10:08 AM 9/27/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
> >>
> >>Scott,
> >>
> >>Interesting information. I thought that Whirlwind was not "approving" the
> >>151 on an engine with EI yet. You have a dual setup running with it. Any
> >>issues? Is Whirlwind aware of your success?
> >>
> >>Thanks.
> >>Ken
> >>
> >>
> >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> >>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:37:43 -0700
> >>
> >> >--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> >> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >> >
> >> > From the out side the plane it is very noticeable. The first time I
> >> >realized the difference I was watching a RV taxi and park and thought it
> >> >must have a auto conversion with mufflers because it was so quiet. I
> walked
> >> >over and talked to the pilot and it was a Lycoming with EI. People
> tell me
> >> >that with the dual EI I sound more like a car engine than Lycoming. I
> also
> >> >have a 3 blade WhirlWind 151 prop that is also VERY quiet.
> >> >
> >> >
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Scott Bilinski
> >Eng dept 305
> >Phone (858) 657-2536
> >Pager (858) 502-5190
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 9
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
Well Darn. I wish I had thought/known that you were at the same airport and I would
have done that.
You can always fly up here to Idaho so I can have a listen...
Just kidding of course.
Ken
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>The biggest benefit to the WW 151 prop is that they are light (28lbs
>lighter than Hartzell), smooth, and quiet, actually very quiet compared to
>other props. You really need to hear a plane with a 151 take off and you
>notice a big difference.
>
>
>At 11:40 AM 9/27/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>>
>>Scott,
>>
>>Thanks again for the info. Whirlwind is on the top of my list for props. I
>>was in San Diego this summer and stopped by for a chat. I was impressed. I
>>really like the looks of a three blade even though your giving up a little
>>performance.
>>
>>I am also interested in the Hartzell blended airfoil prop. I was a little
>>turned off by the RPM restrictions, but I had a chat with the Superior
>>guys at Reno this year. They showed me an email from Hartzell that
>>basically said there were no restrictions with an XP-360 with mags. Good
>>news, but makes the decision process a little more difficult, again.
>>
>>I also got an email from JT with NationAir that stated the Whirlwind props
>>are covered under the Vanguard program.
>>
>>Ken
>>
>>
>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:12:14 -0700
>>
>> >--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>> >
>> >WW has to play it safe from a legal stand point that is why they are not
>> >approving at this time. Yes they know of my success because I keep the
>> >plane on the other side of the airport from them and talk with Jim every
>> >month or so. I also have 9.2:1 compression. I would imagine after hundreds
>> >of hours on the 151 they will remove the "not approved". I currently have
>> >about 100 hrs on the 151. The problem they had in the past with the prop
>> >was on the WW 150 prop, even then it was not a prop issue, but a spinner
>> >bulk head issue. What will happen is that the 3 bolts that hold the spinner
>> >bulk head to the prop hub will shear. The 151 spinner bulk head has 6 bolts
>> >and has been a non issue to date.
>> >
>> >
>> >At 10:08 AM 9/27/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>> >>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>> >>
>> >>Scott,
>> >>
>> >>Interesting information. I thought that Whirlwind was not "approving" the
>> >>151 on an engine with EI yet. You have a dual setup running with it. Any
>> >>issues? Is Whirlwind aware of your success?
>> >>
>> >>Thanks.
>> >>Ken
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>> >>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>> >>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:37:43 -0700
>> >>
>> >> >--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>> >> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > From the out side the plane it is very noticeable. The first time I
>> >> >realized the difference I was watching a RV taxi and park and thought it
>> >> >must have a auto conversion with mufflers because it was so quiet. I
>> walked
>> >> >over and talked to the pilot and it was a Lycoming with EI. People
>> tell me
>> >> >that with the dual EI I sound more like a car engine than Lycoming. I
>> also
>> >> >have a 3 blade WhirlWind 151 prop that is also VERY quiet.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >><snip>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >Scott Bilinski
>> >Eng dept 305
>> >Phone (858) 657-2536
>> >Pager (858) 502-5190
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Message 10
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--> RV8-List message posted by: "Doug Ripley" <dougr@hurricanefilter.com>
I have the new Hartzell blended airfoil, and friends have told me that it is
quieter than the standard Hartzell or other fixed-pitch props. I would
rather make some noise. Give me a round engine and a llooonnnnnggg
prop!!!!!!
GGRRROOOOWWWWWWLLLLLL!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV8-List: silencer
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> The biggest benefit to the WW 151 prop is that they are light (28lbs
> lighter than Hartzell), smooth, and quiet, actually very quiet compared to
> other props. You really need to hear a plane with a 151 take off and you
> notice a big difference.
>
>
> At 11:40 AM 9/27/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
> >
> >Scott,
> >
> >Thanks again for the info. Whirlwind is on the top of my list for props.
I
> >was in San Diego this summer and stopped by for a chat. I was impressed.
I
> >really like the looks of a three blade even though your giving up a
little
> >performance.
> >
> >I am also interested in the Hartzell blended airfoil prop. I was a little
> >turned off by the RPM restrictions, but I had a chat with the Superior
> >guys at Reno this year. They showed me an email from Hartzell that
> >basically said there were no restrictions with an XP-360 with mags. Good
> >news, but makes the decision process a little more difficult, again.
> >
> >I also got an email from JT with NationAir that stated the Whirlwind
props
> >are covered under the Vanguard program.
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >
> >---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> >From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:12:14 -0700
> >
> > >--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> > >
> > >WW has to play it safe from a legal stand point that is why they are
not
> > >approving at this time. Yes they know of my success because I keep the
> > >plane on the other side of the airport from them and talk with Jim
every
> > >month or so. I also have 9.2:1 compression. I would imagine after
hundreds
> > >of hours on the 151 they will remove the "not approved". I currently
have
> > >about 100 hrs on the 151. The problem they had in the past with the
prop
> > >was on the WW 150 prop, even then it was not a prop issue, but a
spinner
> > >bulk head issue. What will happen is that the 3 bolts that hold the
spinner
> > >bulk head to the prop hub will shear. The 151 spinner bulk head has 6
bolts
> > >and has been a non issue to date.
> > >
> > >
> > >At 10:08 AM 9/27/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> > >>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
> > >>
> > >>Scott,
> > >>
> > >>Interesting information. I thought that Whirlwind was not "approving"
the
> > >>151 on an engine with EI yet. You have a dual setup running with it.
Any
> > >>issues? Is Whirlwind aware of your success?
> > >>
> > >>Thanks.
> > >>Ken
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > >>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> > >>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:37:43 -0700
> > >>
> > >> >--> RV8-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> > >> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> > >> >
> > >> > From the out side the plane it is very noticeable. The first time I
> > >> >realized the difference I was watching a RV taxi and park and
thought it
> > >> >must have a auto conversion with mufflers because it was so quiet. I
> > walked
> > >> >over and talked to the pilot and it was a Lycoming with EI. People
> > tell me
> > >> >that with the dual EI I sound more like a car engine than Lycoming.
I
> > also
> > >> >have a 3 blade WhirlWind 151 prop that is also VERY quiet.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >><snip>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >Scott Bilinski
> > >Eng dept 305
> > >Phone (858) 657-2536
> > >Pager (858) 502-5190
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
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