---------------------------------------------------------- RV8-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/02/08: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... (John Ellis) 2. 09:21 AM - Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... (Matt Dralle) 3. 09:30 AM - Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... (Matt Dralle) 4. 09:54 AM - Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... (Matt Dralle) 5. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... (Speed 3 Guy) 6. 06:53 PM - make a wish (Ron Keilin) 7. 07:10 PM - make a wish foundation (Ron Keilin) 8. 07:12 PM - Fw: Mav diamond 1 (Ron Keilin) 9. 07:19 PM - Fw: Emailing: 100_0576 (Ron Keilin) 10. 07:19 PM - Fw: Emailing: 100_0575 (Ron Keilin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:53 AM PST US From: "John Ellis" Subject: Re: RV8-List: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... It's an experimental aircraft, your idea will probably work fine, try it. Or use the flex lines as plans call for, or use the reservoirs on the master cylinders to assure no leaks. The amount of fluid needed to keep calipers working properly won't amount to 1 ounce per side as lining wears. I used the flex lines per plans, two years, 200 hours, no problem. J.Ellis a/p 1726833 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:02 PM Subject: RV8-List: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... > Dear Listers, > > After some head scratching and a couple more tries, I think I came up with > a new design for the low pressure side of the brake lines. With this > design, there is a steady slope downward from the reservoir to the master > calendars. Seems to be pretty substantial. My only concern is that right > feed line going through that candy cane piece isn't really supported > anywhere. Its pretty short and solid to the touch, but vibration might > cause a issue. Since the bottom floor of the baggage area goes over the > top, there's really nothing permanent I can attach it to short of making a > bracket of some kind (yuck). > > So what do you guys think? > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res) > > > At 06:48 PM 10/28/2008 Tuesday, Matt Dralle wrote: > >>[snip] >> >>But here's my question. Notice that on the back side of the second >>bulkhead, I kind of looped the tubing up and around the hole for the vent. >>This also positioned tee fitting nicely to feed the left and right sides. >>The top of that loop is maybe 4 to 5" higher than the top of the >>reservoir, though. Is the flow from the reservoir to the master cylinders >>suppose to be basically "gravity fed" or is the "pump" action from the >>master cylinders all that is necessary to keep the tube and master >>cylinders full? >> >>Matt Dralle >>RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res) > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:21 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV8-List: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... Thank you for the feedback John. To run it parallel with the high pressure line above it, I would have had to go up a couple of inches as it relates to the reservoir since I have to go under the baggage floor. I was trying to make sure that all of the run was at least slightly downward to keep gravity pulling the fluid toward the master cylinder. Am I mis-understanding your comment? Matt At 08:54 AM 11/2/2008 Sunday, you wrote: >Your workmanship is exceptional and a thing of beauty to behold. >However, when I am performing Tech Inspections, I would caution builders >on the use of a long continuous run as in your picture (2). I would >have created the same sweep as the line above and run the straight line >more parallel to the upper line. > >John Cox >A&P, IA >EAA Tech #5242 > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:03 PM >To: rv8-list@matronics.com; rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... > >Dear Listers, > >After some head scratching and a couple more tries, I think I came up >with a new design for the low pressure side of the brake lines. With >this design, there is a steady slope downward from the reservoir to the >master calendars. Seems to be pretty substantial. My only concern is >that right feed line going through that candy cane piece isn't really >supported anywhere. Its pretty short and solid to the touch, but >vibration might cause a issue. Since the bottom floor of the baggage >area goes over the top, there's really nothing permanent I can attach it >to short of making a bracket of some kind (yuck). > >So what do you guys think? > >Matt Dralle >RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res) > > >At 06:48 PM 10/28/2008 Tuesday, Matt Dralle wrote: > >>[snip] >> >>But here's my question. Notice that on the back side of the second >bulkhead, I kind of looped the tubing up and around the hole for the >vent. This also positioned tee fitting nicely to feed the left and >right sides. The top of that loop is maybe 4 to 5" higher than the top >of the reservoir, though. Is the flow from the reservoir to the master >cylinders suppose to be basically "gravity fed" or is the "pump" action >from the master cylinders all that is necessary to keep the tube and >master cylinders full? >> >>Matt Dralle >>RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res) Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:15 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV8-List: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... Ah! I understand. But those are the low pressure side so there really isn't any "pressure" to speak of, is there? I do see your point from a best-practices stand point and it was something that I didn't know. Thanks! Matt At 09:23 AM 11/2/2008 Sunday, you wrote: >No, however any line containing pressurized fluid contracts in length >and expands in diameter, hence the need for flex by routing other than >the "shortest distance between two connection points. It is spelled out >in the AC43.13. > >John > >-----Original Message----- >From: Matt Dralle [mailto:dralle@matronics.com] >Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:16 AM >To: John Cox >Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... > >Thank you for the feedback John. To run it parallel with the high >pressure line above it, I would have had to go up a couple of inches as >it relates to the reservoir since I have to go under the baggage floor. >I was trying to make sure that all of the run was at least slightly >downward to keep gravity pulling the fluid toward the master cylinder. >Am I mis-understanding your comment? > >Matt > >At 08:54 AM 11/2/2008 Sunday, you wrote: >>Your workmanship is exceptional and a thing of beauty to behold. >>However, when I am performing Tech Inspections, I would caution >builders >>on the use of a long continuous run as in your picture (2). I would >>have created the same sweep as the line above and run the straight line >>more parallel to the upper line. >> >>John Cox >>A&P, IA >>EAA Tech #5242 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle >>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:03 PM >>To: rv8-list@matronics.com; rv-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RV-List: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... >> >>Dear Listers, >> >>After some head scratching and a couple more tries, I think I came up >>with a new design for the low pressure side of the brake lines. With >>this design, there is a steady slope downward from the reservoir to the >>master calendars. Seems to be pretty substantial. My only concern is >>that right feed line going through that candy cane piece isn't really >>supported anywhere. Its pretty short and solid to the touch, but >>vibration might cause a issue. Since the bottom floor of the baggage >>area goes over the top, there's really nothing permanent I can attach >it >>to short of making a bracket of some kind (yuck). >> >>So what do you guys think? >> >>Matt Dralle >>RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res) >> >> >>At 06:48 PM 10/28/2008 Tuesday, Matt Dralle wrote: >> >>>[snip] >>> >>>But here's my question. Notice that on the back side of the second >>bulkhead, I kind of looped the tubing up and around the hole for the >>vent. This also positioned tee fitting nicely to feed the left and >>right sides. The top of that loop is maybe 4 to 5" higher than the top >>of the reservoir, though. Is the flow from the reservoir to the master >>cylinders suppose to be basically "gravity fed" or is the "pump" action >>from the master cylinders all that is necessary to keep the tube and >>master cylinders full? >>> >>>Matt Dralle >>>RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res) > > >Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email >http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:50 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV8-List: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... Thanks for the tip, Mike. I actually did try these babies out. The problem on the RV-8, though, is that with the adjustable rudder pedals at full "tall-person", the mini-reservoir doesn't clear the firewall when the brakes are applied. Here's a picture with one on the right master cylinder and full right rudder applied, but no brake action. Notice that there is only about 1/16" of clearance to the firewall. I wish that Grove had used a different fitting design instead of just slapping a NPT M-M on the side. Its way too long. Anybody know of a similar fitting that is about half as long? Matt At 06:46 PM 11/1/2008 Saturday, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: MikeNellis > >Hi Matt, >You've created a plumbing masterpiece but it's a ton of complication and cost. Have you thought about just mounting the brake reservoir right on the brake master cylinders? >This is similar to the set up that I've used. $22/ea. > >Good luck. > > >http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/remoteFluidReservoirs.php >>Dear Listers, >> >>After some head scratching and a couple more tries, I think I came up with a new design for the low pressure side of the brake lines. With this design, there is a steady slope downward from the reservoir to the master calendars. Seems to be pretty substantial. My only concern is that right feed line going through that candy cane piece isn't really supported anywhere. Its pretty short and solid to the touch, but vibration might cause a issue. Since the bottom floor of the baggage area goes over the top, there's really nothing permanent I can attach it to short of making a bracket of some kind (yuck). >> >>So what do you guys think? >> >>Matt Dralle >>RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res) >> >> >> > > >Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email >http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:07 PM PST US From: "Speed 3 Guy" Subject: RE: RV8-List: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... Matt, I used the individual reservoirs, but mounted them with a street elbow instead of a straight nipple. That gives a bit more clearance to the firewall. Guy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:52 AM Subject: RV8-List: Re: Question On Low-Pressure Brake Lines... Thanks for the tip, Mike. I actually did try these babies out. The problem on the RV-8, though, is that with the adjustable rudder pedals at full "tall-person", the mini-reservoir doesn't clear the firewall when the brakes are applied. Here's a picture with one on the right master cylinder and full right rudder applied, but no brake action. Notice that there is only about 1/16" of clearance to the firewall. I wish that Grove had used a different fitting design instead of just slapping a NPT M-M on the side. Its way too long. Anybody know of a similar fitting that is about half as long? Matt At 06:46 PM 11/1/2008 Saturday, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: MikeNellis > >Hi Matt, >You've created a plumbing masterpiece but it's a ton of complication and cost. Have you thought about just mounting the brake reservoir right on the brake master cylinders? >This is similar to the set up that I've used. $22/ea. > >Good luck. > > >http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/remoteFluidReservoirs.php >>Dear Listers, >> >>After some head scratching and a couple more tries, I think I came up with a new design for the low pressure side of the brake lines. With this design, there is a steady slope downward from the reservoir to the master calendars. Seems to be pretty substantial. My only concern is that right feed line going through that candy cane piece isn't really supported anywhere. Its pretty short and solid to the touch, but vibration might cause a issue. Since the bottom floor of the baggage area goes over the top, there's really nothing permanent I can attach it to short of making a bracket of some kind (yuck). >> >>So what do you guys think? >> >>Matt Dralle >>RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res) >> >> >> > > >Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email >http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:51 PM PST US From: "Ron Keilin" Subject: RV8-List: make a wish Kodak HTML EmailThese photos were taken in Miami, Florida for the Make a Wish Foundation. ----- Original Message ----- From: rkeilin@cfl.rr.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:59 PM Subject: 11/02/08 Get Kodak prints of this picture, and all your other favorites, at www.kodakgallery.com! How to save a picture Simply right-click on it, then "Save Image As...". (Mac users: drag the picture to your desktop.) Free Software! Organize, print, and share your digital photos using FREE Kodak EasyShare software. Download the software Get 20 Free Prints Get started for free at kodakgallery.com and we'll give you 20 free prints (new members only). Plus, create photo mugs, books, cards, and more! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:59 PM PST US From: "Ron Keilin" Subject: RV8-List: make a wish foundation Kodak HTML EmailThese photos were taken in Miami, Fla. for the Make a Wish Foundation. I wish I could show all the photos taken from the ground as well as a helicopter. We are a team of four RV-8's called the Mavericks, with the same paint scheme. It was a spectacular day with lots of formation and smoke. Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:59 PM Subject: 11/02/08 Get Kodak prints of this picture, and all your other favorites, at www.kodakgallery.com! How to save a picture Simply right-click on it, then "Save Image As...". (Mac users: drag the picture to your desktop.) Free Software! Organize, print, and share your digital photos using FREE Kodak EasyShare software. Download the software Get 20 Free Prints Get started for free at kodakgallery.com and we'll give you 20 free prints (new members only). Plus, create photo mugs, books, cards, and more! ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:37 PM PST US From: "Ron Keilin" Subject: RV8-List: Fw: Mav diamond 1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gandt" "Weldon Jim" Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:24 PM Subject: Mav diamond 1 > For your collection... > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Mav diamond 1 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:29 PM PST US From: "Ron Keilin" Subject: RV8-List: Fw: Emailing: 100_0576 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Keilin Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Emailing: 100_0576 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 100_0576 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:41 PM PST US From: "Ron Keilin" Subject: RV8-List: Fw: Emailing: 100_0575 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Keilin Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Emailing: 100_0575 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 100_0575 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv8-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV8-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv8-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv8-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.