Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:36 PM - Has anyone ever seen a... (cs@charlesstringham.com)
2. 02:05 PM - Re: Has anyone ever seen a... (Stein Bruch)
3. 02:40 PM - Re: Has anyone ever seen a... (Matt Dralle)
4. 02:46 PM - Re: Has anyone ever seen a... (Carl Froehlich)
5. 04:05 PM - Re: Has anyone ever seen a... (Dan Bergeron)
6. 11:52 PM - Re: Has anyone ever seen a... (Vincent Himsl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Has anyone ever seen a... |
Hi Everyone,
Yesterday, I had the opportunity to practice cursing like a really bad golfer.
Every time I try using a flat rivet set on a convex surface like the leading edge
of horizontal stabilizer, two things follow: liberal use of language that
I must admit really does make me feel better, and yet another call to Vans for
a replacement skin. No matter how careful I am, the rivet set always seems to
walk just far enough off the flush rivet head to create a nice little smile.
Yes, I have hammered a few of them out, and yes, I am aware of just how anal retentive
I am.
So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen a tool that would prevent the rivet
set from walking across the skin? I am thinking of a ring made of rubber with
an inside diameter about 1/2 inch greater than the outside diameter of the rivet
set. It would have a flange that you could hold on the skin of the flight
surface. The rivet would be in the center of the ring, and the set could fit
into the ring in a way such that the set could not wander off the rivet. I know
there are sets that have a rubber ring affixed to the outer edge that oscillate
up and down with the set, but the one I am thinking of would be held to the
aircraft skin and not oscillate with the set. Has anyone ever seen something
of this type? A machinist friend offered to make one for me, but I would feel
stupid if such a tool already exists.
Thanks, Chet Stringham
Message 2
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| Subject: | Has anyone ever seen a... |
Do you mean a flush set like these:
http://www.averytools.com/pc-659-91-flush-rivet-set-with-guard-34-dia-face.aspx
Very, very common, although personally I like larger flush sets with no rubber
ring on them for lighter gauge metal/small rivets and narrow diameter sets for
larger rivets.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cs@charlesstringham.com
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 3:33 PM
Subject: RV8-List: Has anyone ever seen a...
Hi Everyone,
Yesterday, I had the opportunity to practice cursing like a really bad golfer.
Every time I try using a flat rivet set on a convex surface like the leading edge
of horizontal stabilizer, two things follow: liberal use of language that
I must admit really does make me feel better, and yet another call to Vans for
a replacement skin. No matter how careful I am, the rivet set always seems to
walk just far enough off the flush rivet head to create a nice little smile.
Yes, I have hammered a few of them out, and yes, I am aware of just how anal retentive
I am.
So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen a tool that would prevent the rivet
set from walking across the skin? I am thinking of a ring made of rubber with
an inside diameter about 1/2 inch greater than the outside diameter of the rivet
set. It would have a flange that you could hold on the skin of the flight
surface. The rivet would be in the center of the ring, and the set could fit
into the ring in a way such that the set could not wander off the rivet. I know
there are sets that have a rubber ring affixed to the outer edge that oscillate
up and down with the set, but the one I am thinking of would be held to the
aircraft skin and not oscillate with the set. Has anyone ever seen something
of this type? A machinist friend offered to make one for me, but I would feel
stupid if such a tool already exists.
Thanks, Chet Stringham
Message 3
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| Subject: | Has anyone ever seen a... |
>http://www.averytools.com/pc-659-91-flush-rivet-set-with-guard-34-dia-face.aspx
I used this type of flush head set with built in rubber foot exclusively on the
RV-4 and RV-8 with near perfect results. Highly recommend.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
Fiberglass Windsceen Bezel...
Message 4
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| Subject: | Has anyone ever seen a... |
Three things:
1. If you are not using a swivel head rivet set for everything, stop. Here is the one from Cleaveland Tools: http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RSMS75
2. Use a piece of clear packing tape to cover the set face. This prevents skin
scuff marks. Using masking tape on the round head rivet sets eliminates smilies
as well.
3. For curved surfaces like going around a rib, you will often need to put a shim
between the rib and the skin. A shim is just a 3/4" by 3/4" or so piece
of .020", .025" or .032" aluminum drilled and dimpled. The rule is if you can
fit a shim between the skin and the rib, you need a shim. This will eliminate
creating flat spots along curved surfaces.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (525 hrs)
RV-10 (system install)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV8-List: Has anyone ever seen a...
Do you mean a flush set like these:
http://www.averytools.com/pc-659-91-flush-rivet-set-with-guard-34-dia-face.aspx
Very, very common, although personally I like larger flush sets with no rubber
ring on them for lighter gauge metal/small rivets and narrow diameter sets for
larger rivets.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cs@charlesstringham.com
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 3:33 PM
Subject: RV8-List: Has anyone ever seen a...
Hi Everyone,
Yesterday, I had the opportunity to practice cursing like a really bad golfer.
Every time I try using a flat rivet set on a convex surface like the leading edge
of horizontal stabilizer, two things follow: liberal use of language that
I must admit really does make me feel better, and yet another call to Vans for
a replacement skin. No matter how careful I am, the rivet set always seems to
walk just far enough off the flush rivet head to create a nice little smile.
Yes, I have hammered a few of them out, and yes, I am aware of just how anal retentive
I am.
So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen a tool that would prevent the rivet
set from walking across the skin? I am thinking of a ring made of rubber with
an inside diameter about 1/2 inch greater than the outside diameter of the rivet
set. It would have a flange that you could hold on the skin of the flight
surface. The rivet would be in the center of the ring, and the set could fit
into the ring in a way such that the set could not wander off the rivet. I know
there are sets that have a rubber ring affixed to the outer edge that oscillate
up and down with the set, but the one I am thinking of would be held to the
aircraft skin and not oscillate with the set. Has anyone ever seen something
of this type? A machinist friend offered to make one for me, but I would feel
stupid if such a tool already exists.
Thanks, Chet Stringham
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone ever seen a... |
Chet:
The type of rivetting you describe is difficult - been there and done that.
Here is what I used and how I did it:
I used the rivet set you described (available from Avery Tools) with the
rubber ring around the circumference. It is more forgiving than others I've
used. Also - do not attempt this kind of rivetting alone - use a helper. My
wife did most of the rivetting on my RV-7A and I did the bucking - it worked
great - yes - we're still married. (Before we started the project we both
took the EAA sheet metal/rivetting course.) She used the rivet set
described above - held the gun with her right hand - and held the rivet set
in place and steady on the rivet with her left hand. (She is right handed.)
When we (notice I said "we") messed up - I would curse and she would point
the gun at me and threaten to pull the trigger. Use a small ball peen
hammer and a piece of steel (a large area bucking bar works fine) against
the opposite side of the aluminum and carefull and gently tap out the dent.
I had a few that had to be pounded out that way and, now that it's
finished, I'm not sure I could even find them. If they drive you crazy you
can always fill the little depressions with Super Fill. And remember - a
good painter will be your best friend. And don't be so anal - you'll never
get finished.
Dan Bergeron
RV-7A N307TB
98 hours since first flight on 8/4/09
(build time was 6 1/2 years)
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 4:33 PM, cs@charlesstringham.com <
cs@charlesstringham.com> wrote:
> cs@charlesstringham.com>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Yesterday, I had the opportunity to practice cursing like a really bad
> golfer. Every time I try using a flat rivet set on a convex surface like the
> leading edge of horizontal stabilizer, two things follow: liberal use of
> language that I must admit really does make me feel better, and yet another
> call to Vans for a replacement skin. No matter how careful I am, the rivet
> set always seems to walk just far enough off the flush rivet head to create
> a nice little smile. Yes, I have hammered a few of them out, and yes, I am
> aware of just how anal retentive I am.
>
> So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen a tool that would prevent the
> rivet set from walking across the skin? I am thinking of a ring made of
> rubber with an inside diameter about 1/2 inch greater than the outside
> diameter of the rivet set. It would have a flange that you could hold on the
> skin of the flight surface. The rivet would be in the center of the ring,
> and the set could fit into the ring in a way such that the set could not
> wander off the rivet. I know there are sets that have a rubber ring affixed
> to the outer edge that oscillate up and down with the set, but the one I am
> thinking of would be held to the aircraft skin and not oscillate with the
> set. Has anyone ever seen something of this type? A machinist friend offered
> to make one for me, but I would feel stupid if such a tool already exists.
>
> Thanks, Chet Stringham
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Has anyone ever seen a... |
Hello=2C
I would suggest you check your rivet gun air pressure setting. It could be
set too high so that you cannot feather the rivet gun causing it to jump. I
had (my RV-8 is flying now) the compressor at roughly 95psi with a special
adjustment on the rivet gun itself. Put the rivet gun against something so
lid and try to go from off through full on without it jumping. Adjust the r
ivet gun psi (not the compressor) so that the gun just begins to jump and t
hen back off a hair. That seems to be the best technique as opposed to some
magic psi number. With experience you will fine tune this for the task at
hand=2C but as a beginner=2C it is a good place to start.
Next make sure you have adequate lubrication so that it doesn't hang and th
en jump.
Now given the above is set=2C you have to be perpindicular to the rivet or
the gun will walk.
Avery tools sells a swivel=2C rubber insulated rivet tool attachment (start
ing to forget the terminology) that will work but you have to hold it. In t
he beginning the swivel set is great but after awhile=2C you will find the
non swivel without rubber one easier to control especially on curved surfac
es.
As for the smilies=2C they can be fixed at the end of your project with fib
erglass/micro-ballon treatmeant. You will have worked on your windscreen by
then and will know how to work with fiberglass. Also=2C be thankful. Now y
ou have answered the 'will I paint or go with polished aluminum' question.
Whatever you do=2C don't tear everything apart and start over (anymore). Yo
ur biggest concern should not be minor imperfections=2C but the 25 to 30% c
ompetion rate for home built aircraft.
Regards=2C
Vince H.
Idaho/Washington USA
N8432
RV-8 Flying (29.5 hours)
> Date: Sun=2C 7 Feb 2010 16:33:17 -0500
> To: rv8-list@matronics.com
> From: cs@charlesstringham.com
> Subject: RV8-List: Has anyone ever seen a...
>
ngham.com>
>
> Hi Everyone=2C
>
> Yesterday=2C I had the opportunity to practice cursing like a really bad
golfer. Every time I try using a flat rivet set on a convex surface like th
e leading edge of horizontal stabilizer=2C two things follow: liberal use o
f language that I must admit really does make me feel better=2C and yet ano
ther call to Vans for a replacement skin. No matter how careful I am=2C the
rivet set always seems to walk just far enough off the flush rivet head to
create a nice little smile. Yes=2C I have hammered a few of them out=2C an
d yes=2C I am aware of just how anal retentive I am.
>
> So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen a tool that would prevent th
e rivet set from walking across the skin? I am thinking of a ring made of r
ubber with an inside diameter about 1/2 inch greater than the outside diame
ter of the rivet set. It would have a flange that you could hold on the ski
n of the flight surface. The rivet would be in the center of the ring=2C an
d the set could fit into the ring in a way such that the set could not wand
er off the rivet. I know there are sets that have a rubber ring affixed to
the outer edge that oscillate up and down with the set=2C but the one I am
thinking of would be held to the aircraft skin and not oscillate with the s
et. Has anyone ever seen something of this type? A machinist friend offered
to make one for me=2C but I would feel stupid if such a tool already exist
s.
>
> Thanks=2C Chet Stringham
>
>
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