RV8-List Digest Archive

Mon 02/08/10


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:43 AM - Re: Has anyone ever seen a... (Skylor Piper)
     2. 05:04 AM - Re: Has anyone ever seen a... (William Slaughter)
     3. 06:43 AM - Re: Has anyone ever seen a... (Richard Martin)
     4. 06:52 AM - Re: Some RV-8 Stick/Dual Time... (Chris Stone)
     5. 08:36 AM - Re: Some RV-8 Stick/Dual Time... (Chris Johnston)
     6. 01:48 PM - Walking Flush Rivet Set (Martin Sobel)
     7. 08:04 PM - Fiberglass Windscreen Bezel (Matt Dralle)
     8. 09:02 PM - Thanks (cs@charlesstringham.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:43:09 AM PST US
    From: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a...
    A few items that I've found to help with riveting: 1. Until you get more comfortable with riveting, get a helper to buck for you. This frees up both hands so that you can use your fingers on your second hand to position and guide the rivet set. 2. The set will walk if you are not holding the rivet gun perfectly perpendicular to the surface that you're riveting. It will typically walk in the direction that the gun is tilted. This applies to drilling as well. 3. If the gun is walking a lot, you may be using too much air pressure to drive the gun Skylor RV-8 Almost finished... Sent from my iPhone. On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:33 PM, "cs@charlesstringham.com" <cs@charlesstringham.com> wrote: Hi Everyone, Yesterday, I had the opportunity to practice cursing like a really bad golfer. Every time I try using a flat rivet set on a convex surface like the leading edge of horizontal stabilizer, two things follow: liberal use of language that I must admit really does make me feel better, and yet another call to Vans for a replacement skin. No matter how careful I am, the rivet set always seems to walk just far enough off the flush rivet head to create a nice little smile. Yes, I have hammered a few of them out, and yes, I am aware of just how anal retentive I am. So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen a tool that would prevent the rivet set from walking across the skin? I am thinking of a ring made of rubber with an inside diameter about 1/2 inch greater than the outside diameter of the rivet set. It would have a flange that you could hold on the skin of the flight surface. The rivet would be in the center of the ring, and the set could fit into the ring in a way such that the set could not wander off the rivet. I know there are sets that have a rubber ring affixed to the outer edge that oscillate up and down with the set, but the one I am thinking of would be held to the aircraft skin and not oscillate with the set. Has anyone ever seen something of this type? A machinist friend offered to make one for me, but I would feel stupid if such a tool already exists. Thanks, Chet Stringham


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:04:53 AM PST US
    From: "William Slaughter" <william_slaughter@att.net>
    Subject: Has anyone ever seen a...
    Dan is right on the money here about using one hand on the gun while one hand steadies the rivet set, and a second person bucks. Combine this technique with a swivel rivet set and you'll be good to go. William Slaughter RV-8 finishing up the fuselage From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Bergeron Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:17 PM Subject: Re: RV8-List: Has anyone ever seen a... Chet: The type of rivetting you describe is difficult - been there and done that. Here is what I used and how I did it: I used the rivet set you described (available from Avery Tools) with the rubber ring around the circumference. It is more forgiving than others I've used. Also - do not attempt this kind of rivetting alone - use a helper. My wife did most of the rivetting on my RV-7A and I did the bucking - it worked great - yes - we're still married. (Before we started the project we both took the EAA sheet metal/rivetting course.) She used the rivet set described above - held the gun with her right hand - and held the rivet set in place and steady on the rivet with her left hand. (She is right handed.) When we (notice I said "we") messed up - I would curse and she would point the gun at me and threaten to pull the trigger. Use a small ball peen hammer and a piece of steel (a large area bucking bar works fine) against the opposite side of the aluminum and carefull and gently tap out the dent. I had a few that had to be pounded out that way and, now that it's finished, I'm not sure I could even find them. If they drive you crazy you can always fill the little depressions with Super Fill. And remember - a good painter will be your best friend. And don't be so anal - you'll never get finished. Dan Bergeron RV-7A N307TB 98 hours since first flight on 8/4/09 (build time was 6 1/2 years) On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 4:33 PM, cs@charlesstringham.com <cs@charlesstringham.com> wrote: <cs@charlesstringham.com> Hi Everyone, Yesterday, I had the opportunity to practice cursing like a really bad golfer. Every time I try using a flat rivet set on a convex surface like the leading edge of horizontal stabilizer, two things follow: liberal use of language that I must admit really does make me feel better, and yet another call to Vans for a replacement skin. No matter how careful I am, the rivet set always seems to walk just far enough off the flush rivet head to create a nice little smile. Yes, I have hammered a few of them out, and yes, I am aware of just how anal retentive I am. So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen a tool that would prevent the rivet set from walking across the skin? I am thinking of a ring made of rubber with an inside diameter about 1/2 inch greater than the outside diameter of the rivet set. It would have a flange that you could hold on the skin of the flight surface. The rivet would be in the center of the ring, and the set could fit into the ring in a way such that the set could not wander off the rivet. I know there are sets that have a rubber ring affixed to the outer edge that oscillate up and down with the set, but the one I am thinking of would be held to the aircraft skin and not oscillate with the set. Has anyone ever seen something of this type? A machinist friend offered to make one for me, but I would feel stupid if such a tool already exists. Thanks, Chet Stringham ========== rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==========


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:43:17 AM PST US
    From: "Richard Martin" <martin@gbonline.com>
    Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a...
    Charles, I read with interest your post about rivit gun problems. Vincent Himsls post is very accurate.as to proceedure. The only advice I can add is, there are a lot of bargain basement rivit guns on the market. If you cannot tease the gun when striking the rivet, GET RID OF IT. (sell it to someone you don"t like) Both Cleveland Tool and Avery sell quality rivit guns. Not cheap, but can control the strike rate on a good gun. Note: practice on a piece of scrap to adjust the air pressure and strike rate before riviting . Good Luck. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: <cs@charlesstringham.com> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 3:33 PM Subject: RV8-List: Has anyone ever seen a... > <cs@charlesstringham.com> > > Hi Everyone, > > Yesterday, I had the opportunity to practice cursing like a really bad > golfer. Every time I try using a flat rivet set on a convex surface like > the leading edge of horizontal stabilizer, two things follow: liberal use > of language that I must admit really does make me feel better, and yet > another call to Vans for a replacement skin. No matter how careful I am, > the rivet set always seems to walk just far enough off the flush rivet > head to create a nice little smile. Yes, I have hammered a few of them > out, and yes, I am aware of just how anal retentive I am. > > So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen a tool that would prevent the > rivet set from walking across the skin? I am thinking of a ring made of > rubber with an inside diameter about 1/2 inch greater than the outside > diameter of the rivet set. It would have a flange that you could hold on > the skin of the flight surface. The rivet would be in the center of the > ring, and the set could fit into the ring in a way such that the set could > not wander off the rivet. I know there are sets that have a rubber ring > affixed to the outer edge that oscillate up and down with the set, but the > one I am thinking of would be held to the aircraft skin and not oscillate > with the set. Has anyone ever seen something of this type? A machinist > friend offered to make one for me, but I would feel stupid if such a tool > already exists. > > Thanks, Chet Stringham > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:52:16 AM PST US
    From: Chris Stone <rv8iator@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Some RV-8 Stick/Dual Time...
    Matt... My build and flying buddy (20,000 airline hrs) did his transition training with Mike Seager. He's flying an -8 Mike has a -7. Wouldn't have done it any other way. http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/trainfly.htm Chris Stone RV-8 Oregon -----Original Message----- >From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> >Sent: Feb 5, 2010 8:33 PM >To: rv8-list@matronics.com, rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV8-List: Some RV-8 Stick/Dual Time... > > > >Dear Listers, > >I would like to get some dual time in in an RV-8 over the next few months. Is there anyone on the List kind of near the Livermore California airport with an RV-8 (taildragger) that has dual controls including rudder peddles and preferably a CS prop? With my RV-8 test flight quickly approaching, I would like to get 5-10 hours in an RV-8 before I go to get insurance and go for that first flight. I'm current, have over 100 hours in tailwheels, and carry aircraft renters insurance. > >I would reimburse for gas and lunches! :-) > >Matt Dralle >RV-8 #82880 N998RV >http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Builders Log >Finishing Up... > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:36:56 AM PST US
    From: Chris Johnston <CJohnston@popsound.com>
    Subject: Re: Some RV-8 Stick/Dual Time...
    I second this opinion. Training with mike is really the way to go. cj On Feb 8, 2010, at 7:01 AM, "Chris Stone" <rv8iator@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Matt... > > My build and flying buddy (20,000 airline hrs) did his transition > training with Mike Seager. He's flying an -8 Mike has a -7. > Wouldn't have done it any other way. > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/trainfly.htm > > Chris Stone > RV-8 > Oregon > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> >> Sent: Feb 5, 2010 8:33 PM >> To: rv8-list@matronics.com, rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV8-List: Some RV-8 Stick/Dual Time... >> >> >> >> Dear Listers, >> >> I would like to get some dual time in in an RV-8 over the next few >> months. Is there anyone on the List kind of near the Livermore >> California airport with an RV-8 (taildragger) that has dual >> controls including rudder peddles and preferably a CS prop? With >> my RV-8 test flight quickly approaching, I would like to get 5-10 >> hours in an RV-8 before I go to get insurance and go for that first >> flight. I'm current, have over 100 hours in tailwheels, and carry >> aircraft renters insurance. >> >> I would reimburse for gas and lunches! :-) >> >> Matt Dralle >> RV-8 #82880 N998RV >> http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Builders Log >> Finishing Up... >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 01:48:24 PM PST US
    Subject: Walking Flush Rivet Set
    From: Martin Sobel <rv8vator@comcast.net>
    Sounds like you are using too much pressure. I would suggest about 25 psi at the gun. Also, if you can find someone to buck, you can hold the gun in two hands, one at the set, the other at the trigger. MARTIN SOBEL Captain (Ret) TWA FlightSafety International (Ret) 941-359-8693 941-355-7732 (Fax) 941-539-4806 (Cell)


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:04:03 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Fiberglass Windscreen Bezel
    Hey guys, Well, the fiberglass windscreen bezel is THE job I have been dreading the most about this RV-8 project. I'm happy to report that tonight it is complete! And it turned out really nice. I documented the whole process on my RV-8 builder's blog here (11 log entries): http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2973&log=98294&row=11 It took two tries to get it the way I wanted it. The first time, I didn't get the line straight left-to-right and the dip in the center wasn't in the center. The second time around, I made sure it was dead on! I've attached a few photos of the process (more on the blog). Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Construction Log Fiberglass Around Wheel Pants...


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:02:09 PM PST US
    From: "cs@charlesstringham.com" <cs@charlesstringham.com>
    Subject: Thanks
    Thank you so much Stein, Matt, Carl, Dan, Vincent, William, and Martin for your help. Indeed I had been trying to hold the rivet gun with one hand and the bucking bar with the other. For short reaches between the two, it's not too much of a stretch. But for longer reaches, it's almost impossible to control the rivet gun. My wife and daughter are in the process of being sworn in as bucking bar holders. I don't think I realized just how steep the learning curve is in the construction of an RV.




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