---------------------------------------------------------- RV8-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/06/10: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:59 AM - Lyc IO360-C1C6 to A1B6 (Chris Stone) 2. 09:06 AM - Re: (UPDATE) Princeton 18-5B-5S Fuel Senders Won't Calibrate... (Matt Dralle) 3. 05:03 PM - Top Fwd Skin (Breece Nesbitt) 4. 05:17 PM - Re: Top Fwd Skin (Matt Dralle) 5. 05:31 PM - Re: Top Fwd Skin (Larry Bowen) 6. 05:40 PM - Registration vs. Airworthiness - Chicken & The Egg... (Matt Dralle) 7. 08:57 PM - Re: Lyc IO360-C1C6 to A1B6 () 8. 10:13 PM - Mr RV-8 Moves To The Hangar... (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:30 AM PST US From: Chris Stone Subject: RV8-List: Lyc IO360-C1C6 to A1B6 Hello listers... Has anyone converted a Lyc IO360-C1C6 (rear fuel controller) to a A1B6 front fuel controller by machining the sump boss to accept the mounting of the fuel controller to the front of the sump. Since this is a tuned induction system I am concerned that by switching the inlet to the front of the sump it will detune the system. Chris Stone RV-8 Oregon ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:35 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV8-List: Re: (UPDATE) Princeton 18-5B-5S Fuel Senders Won't Calibrate... Dear Listers, I was able to get fairly good access to the fuel sender from under the airplane and so I removed the 5 screws with a right-angle electric screwdriver attachment and gently pulled the sender about 1" out. As I did this, I noticed that the tip of the probe seemed to touching the bottom of the fuel tank. Recall that the probe comes prebent in a "U" shape for RV installations. I thought that perhaps the tip of the probe touching the tank wasn't a good idea, so I gently twisted the fuel sender so as to slightly bend the tip of the probe up just a little bit. I pushed the sending back into the hole and put two screws in to hold it in normal position. I applied power and pressed the button down to get it into calibration mode. I got the one flashing LED indicating Empty set point as before. I pressed the button once again to get the 1/4 set point, and much to my surprise, I received to next sequence of two flashing lights!! So I tried the same procedure on the left tank and got the same results! Yahoo! When I pulled the sender from the tank, the Proseal 100% stuck to the metal tank and released from the sender. This worked out really well as it formed a nice gasket. I mixed up a batch of Proseal and applied it to the probe and then used new screws and reassembled both sides. After the reinstallation, I tested the power-on/first set point again and was pleased to see that it was still working! Yahoo! So, after the Proseal cures, I'll try the calibration with fuel again. Hopefully it will go through all 5 steps and I can just move on with this! I was all ready to replace the Princeton's with the standard S&W floats, but when I got to looking I realized that I had powered the Princeton's with +12v, and the floats require a 470 ohm to 4.8V. So, changing to the floats would require rewiring behind the panel and that's a whole lot of work I'm just not up for right now!! Hopefully the Princeton's will calibrate fully now and I'll be back on track! I'll post another update after my calibration escapade... Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog At 05:37 PM 4/4/2010 Sunday, Matt Dralle wrote: >Dear Listers, > >I installed Princeton 18-5B-5S Fuel Senders in the left and right fuel tanks with Proseal (see attached). Last week I installed the wings permanently and today I torqued all of the fuel lines from the wings to the fuselage. I got 21 gallons in 5.25 gallon increments ready to calibrate the 5-set point Princeton probes today. They both powered up fine and started flashing the left light indicating the Empty set point. I pushed the button once per the calibration instructions to go to the 1/4 level. Instead of getting the #2 led flashing, I get the all three LEDs flashing sequence indicating that probe "Can't be calibrated"!!! > > From the installation manual: CAL Error (three flashing LEDs) - The probe failed to calibrate. Possible causes: water in the tank (NO), inner brass rod is shorted to the outside aluminum tube (PROBABLY), Alcohol in the fuel (NO), trying to calibrate full first instead of empty (NO), or the probe electronics have failed (MAYBE)." Yeah, you read all that right. > >The best part of this story is that I Prosealed these babies in, installed the wings, and now discover that both probes are defective or what even. How can this fricken be? Its too late in the game for this. Replacing these stupid probes is going to be a major pain not to mention the fact that likelihood of leaks are now going to be high. I just can't believe it. This is so frustrating. Why didn't the manual advise to check this long before now? Like before they were installed, during installation, and right after installation before the Proseal cured? > >Oh, did I mention BOTH are bad? How can this be... How disheartening. Please tell me I'm just mis-reading the calibration instructions...? > >I'm going to go out on a limb here and say avoid these piles of garbage... > >Matt Dralle ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:22 PM PST US From: Breece Nesbitt Subject: RV8-List: Top Fwd Skin RV-8 List Members,=0A=0AI've finally come to the place in building where I -have to attach the top forward skin.- A lot of the rivet locations are about impossibe to get to - especially along the sides in the gear boxes. - I've considered cherry max rivets, but the smallest size is too large. - Is anyone aware of screws being used instead of rivets for this skin? - =0A=0AIf the longerons are tapped and-platenuts are installed on tops of the bulkhead, firewall and panel, flat head screws (NAS514 machine scre ws) could be used.- Also, this would make it possible to remove the skin -and windshield, I believe.-=0A=0AAny comments would be appreciated.=0A =0ABreece Nesbitt=0ARV-8=0AN28117 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:25 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Re: RV8-List: Top Fwd Skin At 05:02 PM 4/6/2010 Tuesday, you wrote: >RV-8 List Members, > >I've finally come to the place in building where I have to attach the top forward skin. A lot of the rivet locations are about impossibe to get to - especially along the sides in the gear boxes. I've considered cherry max rivets, but the smallest size is too large. Is anyone aware of screws being used instead of rivets for this skin? > >If the longerons are tapped and platenuts are installed on tops of the bulkhead, firewall and panel, flat head screws (NAS514 machine screws) could be used. Also, this would make it possible to remove the skin and windshield, I believe. > >Any comments would be appreciated. > >Breece Nesbitt >RV-8 >N28117 Hi Breece, The text below is from my log entry regarding this vary thing. "CherryMax CR3214 Pop Rivets On Gear Towers There were about 6 rivets on each side of the top instrument panel skin that were located inside the gear towers. Consequently, getting to the backside to buck them was nearly impossible. I suppose with just the right bucking bar, crafted specifically just for reaching those pesky rivets, you probably could buck them, but of the 8 or 9 bucking bars I have, nothing came even close. I did a little research on the Net and found that many people have been using CherryMax CR3214 4-4 Pop rivets for these few rivets. These, however, seem to be a little hard to find because they have a 1/8" body, but a 3/32" countersunk rivet head. I found a great source for them, however, at Genuine Aircraft Hardware Company ( http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/store.asp?alternate=CR3214%2D4%2D4 ). These guys have all kind of nifty hardware for aircraft and are very friendly and helpful on the phone. Give them a call and have them ship you a catalog; a resource guide in and of itself. I ordered 30 or so of the CR3214 4-4 and when they arrived, I drilled the holes out to 1/8" and then stuck them in the holes. The are really cool and leave a completely flush rivet that almost cannot be distinguished from a standard 426 3/32" rivet. In fact, the mandrel of these pop rivets breaks off exactly flush as well, so they don't even leave any ugly hole. By the way, if you have a decent "standard" pop rivet tool, it should work with the CR3214 rivets as well. No need to buy a special rivet tool." Online log entries here: http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&log=94469&row=160 http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&log=94470&row=159 Matt Dralle RV-8 #83880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Constrution Log Final Bits - Inspection then Test Flight! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV8-List: Top Fwd Skin From: Larry Bowen Yes, I did the same. Worked out fine: http://blog.bowenaero.com/?p=43 -- Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > At 05:02 PM 4/6/2010 Tuesday, you wrote: > > RV-8 List Members, > > I've finally come to the place in building where I have to attach the top > forward skin. A lot of the rivet locations are about impossibe to get to - > especially along the sides in the gear boxes. I've considered cherry max > rivets, but the smallest size is too large. Is anyone aware of screws being > used instead of rivets for this skin? > > If the longerons are tapped and platenuts are installed on tops of the > bulkhead, firewall and panel, flat head screws (NAS514 machine screws) could > be used. Also, this would make it possible to remove the skin and > windshield, I believe. > > Any comments would be appreciated. > > Breece Nesbitt > RV-8 > N28117 > > > Hi Breece, > > The text below is from my log entry regarding this vary thing. > > "CherryMax CR3214 Pop Rivets On Gear Towers > > There were about 6 rivets on each side of the top instrument panel skin > that were located inside the gear towers. Consequently, getting to the > backside to buck them was nearly impossible. I suppose with just the right > bucking bar, crafted specifically just for reaching those pesky rivets, you > probably could buck them, but of the 8 or 9 bucking bars I have, nothing > came even close. > > I did a little research on the Net and found that many people have been > using CherryMax CR3214 4-4 Pop rivets for these few rivets. These, however, > seem to be a little hard to find because they have a 1/8" body, but a 3/32" > countersunk rivet head. I found a great source for them, however, at Genuine > Aircraft Hardware Company ( > http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/store.asp?alternate=CR3214%2D4%2D4 ). > These guys have all kind of nifty hardware for aircraft and are very > friendly and helpful on the phone. Give them a call and have them ship you a > catalog; a resource guide in and of itself. > > I ordered 30 or so of the CR3214 4-4 and when they arrived, I drilled the > holes out to 1/8" and then stuck them in the holes. The are really cool and > leave a completely flush rivet that almost cannot be distinguished from a > standard 426 3/32" rivet. In fact, the mandrel of these pop rivets breaks > off exactly flush as well, so they don't even leave any ugly hole. > > By the way, if you have a decent "standard" pop rivet tool, it should work > with the CR3214 rivets as well. No need to buy a special rivet tool." > > Online log entries here: > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&log=94469&row=160 > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&log=94470&row=159 > > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #83880 N998RV > http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Constrution Log > Final Bits - Inspection then Test Flight! > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:38 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV8-List: Registration vs. Airworthiness - Chicken & The Egg... I've gotten some conflicting reports. Do you have your final registration cert from the FAA in hand before you can apply for your Airworthiness cert, or is the pink copy of the registration sufficient? Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Building Log Final Bits - Inspection then Test Flight... ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:20 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV8-List: Lyc IO360-C1C6 to A1B6 I had a C1E6 that was converted to forward facing induction, but I could not tell you the details as I bought it that way. Runs good though. Mark Rose 137MR RV8A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Stone" Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:33 AM Subject: RV8-List: Lyc IO360-C1C6 to A1B6 > > Hello listers... > > Has anyone converted a Lyc IO360-C1C6 (rear fuel controller) to a A1B6 > front fuel controller by machining the sump boss to accept the mounting of > the fuel controller to the front of the sump. > > Since this is a tuned induction system I am concerned that by switching > the inlet to the front of the sump it will detune the system. > > Chris Stone > RV-8 > Oregon > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:18 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV8-List: Mr RV-8 Moves To The Hangar... Thought I'd share a couple of pictures of the 'ol RV-8 project now that its moved to the hangar... Since these were taken the wings have been put on. Won't be long now!! Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com Matt's RV-8 Building Log Final Bits And Pieces... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv8-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV8-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv8-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv8-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.