RV8-List Digest Archive

Sat 05/01/10


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:33 PM - Re: Taxi Test (Speedy11@aol.com)
     2. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Taxi Test (Matt Dralle)
     3. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: Taxi Test (Andrew M Morgan)
     4. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Taxi Test (Robin Marks)
     5. 07:19 PM - RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 1 - Getting There... (Matt Dralle)
     6. 07:26 PM - RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 2 - Sessions 1 & 2... (Matt Dralle)
     7. 07:35 PM - RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 3 - Session 3... (Matt Dralle)
     8. 08:32 PM - RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 3 - Session 4... (Matt Dralle)
     9. 11:10 PM - Official RV8-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    10. 11:18 PM - Official RV8-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:33:20 PM PST US
    From: Speedy11@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Taxi Test
    Yep - I understand. Mine was new also and had been run on a test stand for 1.5 hours. Still I found things during my 3 engine runs of 15 minutes each that I could not have found otherwise. I'm glad I did some short engine runs. I think Matt's is a new IO-390 also. Stan Sutterfield Do not archive My question exactly. My engine builder wanted me to PUSH my airplane to the runway before the first flight, after a few very short test runs, primarily looking for leaks. Prior to that, it was run on a test stand for almost an hour, with sufficient cooling provided.


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:10:30 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Re: Taxi Test
    >I think Matt's is a new IO-390 also. Yes, it is. However, I had Bart run it for 11.5 hours on the test stand. This gets it well past the most critical part of the break-in. The difference in cost was basically the cost of fuel. Well worth the investment and piece of mind. Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Test Flying


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:33:18 PM PST US
    From: "Andrew M Morgan" <amorgan53@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Taxi Test
    tried to post this to matt's channel as a link but i can't seem to post links in comments sections of youtube .. maybe they set it up that way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1iOcDSVin0 some theme music for the sky


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:39:55 PM PST US
    From: Robin Marks <robin@PaintTheWeb.com>
    Subject: Re: Taxi Test
    Snip>>The difference in cost was basically the cost of fuel Correct for Bart/Aerosportpower.com, their pricing for additional run time is the way to go (IMHO). Most charge much more / hour. Robin -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 6:08 PM Subject: Re: RV8-List: Re: Taxi Test >I think Matt's is a new IO-390 also. Yes, it is. However, I had Bart run it for 11.5 hours on the test stand. This gets it well past the most critical part of the break-in. The difference in cost was basically the cost of fuel. Well worth the investment and piece of mind. Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Test Flying


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:19:28 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 1 - Getting There...
    The trip to Vernonia Oregon was pleasantly uneventful and rather relaxing, actually. The Flight on Horizon Air was smooth and the plane left Oakland Airport right on time and even arrived at Portland Airport 10 minutes early. I was also pleasantly surprised that the Enterprise rental car establishment at the airport had a brand new 2010 Chevy Camero's in the fleet. I've been wanting to drive one since they came out and quickly exchanged my "luxury car" reservation for the sweet, Silver number seen in the pictures. Its a very nice car. Plenty of power, handles reasonably well although it tends to over-steer in the corners, rides well, and has a "very nice" factory sound system. The system has XM radio support, but Enterprise doesn't maintain a subscription to the service which is a big-old fat bummer in my opinion. FM radio is a jungle; ack. Anyway, back to the trip... It was around 2pm by the the time I got on the road, so my belly was telling me it was time for a refill. I noticed this nice looking place along the highway called Rose's Restaurant and Bakery and it sounded like what I was in the mood for, and it turned out my hunch was right. I ordered a big 'ol greasy BBQ cheese burger that was as big as a mountain and very tasty. They have some awesome looking deserts there too, but I resisted. I don't know why I resisted, mind you... Just as I was leaving, the sun turned to dark gray clouds and then it just started to hail like crazy! It was pretty cool. It was about an hour and a half drive from the Portland Airport out to Vernonia. Along the way, I snapped a couple of pictures of a sweet glider airport by the highway. The green fields with the airplanes in the background was quite a sight. I thought wistfully of the RV-8 trapped in the hangar back at home... Once you turn off the main highway heading towards Vernonia proper, the scenery is quite spectacular. The filtered sun through the various clouds and patches of rain made the trip just that much more enjoyable. Well, that and the purr of the Camero's V8. I'm just saying... I rolled into Vernonia and the Garmin GPS that came with the car took me right up to the front door of the Rockcreek Bed & Breakfast. What a lovely place! The pictures of the interior are the living quarters for the guest. There's just the one bedroom, so I pretty much had the run of the areas shown. The owners live in the back half of the house, but the two areas are divided and so the guest's front half is very private. Patricia Davis, the curator of the Rockcreek B&B was very nice and made sure everything was just right. She promised a big breakfast in the morning with all of my favorite things, so I'm looking forward to that!! :-) If you're coming to Vernonia for your transition training with Mike Seager, you own it to yourself to stay here at the Rock Creek B&B. You won't be sorry. The accommodations are outstanding and the price is very reasonable. Here is their web site: http://www.rockcreekbb.com/ After I got settled in, I drove out to the Vernonia airport and looked around until I found Mike's hanger. I knocked on the door and found him there still and we had a nice conversation and he showed me his Model T restoration project. Very cool! I'll have to get some pictures of it tomorrow. Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Test Flight


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:26:09 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 2 - Sessions 1 &
    2... As luck would have it, Thursday morning it was raining in Vernonia Oregon. Go figure. After a wonderful breakfast at the Rock Creek B&B, I headed out to the Vernonia airport to meet with Mike Seager at 10am for my first RV transition training lesson. We spent the first hour in the office for some "chalk-talk" all about RVs. Mike went over RV speeds, attitudes (the airplane's, not the pilot's, btw), and other things related to flying an RV safely. It was a very good primer on the RV. By now, it was only raining "a little bit", so we headed out to N477RV, an RV-7, and hopped in. We took off to the West, with a fairly stiff wind. I nice left hand turn and we headed out toward Scappoose. Mike took me though some aircraft handling such as turns and climbs and descents and got me used to the flight controls on the RV. As is typical with most new RV pilots, I was over-controlling some. The air was *really* bumpy and I was really working hard to keep the plane level with all the turbulence. Then Mike showed me how to just let the plane fly itself though those bumps by relaxing my grip and not constantly over-correcting. Wow! That's was a lot easier! We headed over to the Scappoose airport and set up to shoot some landings. There was a "nice", almost 90 degree cross wind there to go with all of the turbulence, so it was quite a work out both as a pilot and on my stomach. I didn't barf, but I sure wanted to... After 6 stop and go landings at Scappoose, we headed back to the Vernonia airport. Mike has been restoring a 1923 Model T Ford and he decided that he was going to take it home for lunch that day. What a sweet car! Friday afternoon he even took me for a ride! Considering they started making Model T's around 1907, it rode surprising well. With the fully enclosed cabin and heater, it must have seemed like a space-ship compared to the horse and buggy that most were still using at the time. The little car has an amazing amount of power. There are a myriad of levers and pedals that must be negotiated to drive the thing. Most peculiar is that fact that the throttle is not a pedal, but rather a lever on the steering column that kind of looks like a turn signal. Mike's also been into Radio Control model airplanes and has a number of them hanging from the ceiling in his hanger. Some of them were simply massive and frankly looked like you could put the family cat or dog on one and take them for a ride of a life time. In the afternoon, I headed back out the Vernonia airport at 3PM for my second lesson. The weather was better, but the report for Scappoose was for even more wind than in the morning. So, we headed out to the McMinville airport South of Vernonia about 15 minutes by RV. http://www.macairclub.com/Welcome.html McMinville is where the Spruce Goose is now stored and there is a large aircraft museum there. The wind was fairly calm at McMinville and so we did about 12 stop and go landings and then headed back the Vernonia airport. BTW, the Vernonia airport has a large hill on the East end of the field and so you have to sort of fly a dog leg around the hill and then straighten out right at the last minute to land on the grass strip. By the end of Friday, I had it down! Mike said, if you can land at Vernonia, you can land anywhere! :-) After the second lesson on Thursday, I headed down to Hillsboro to meet some long time RV-buddies at the Rock Creek Tavern. Don Wentz and Jerry Springer were there and I met a new RV-buddy named Ryan along with his wife and daughter. The Rock Creek Tavern is quite a place with lots of atmosphere and even a live band on a Thursday night. The giant BBQ cheese burger was nothing short of awesome. By the time I got home, I was bushed. The giant, comfortable bed at the Rock Creek B&B felt so good. I didn't wake up until 8 the next morning! - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Test Flight


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:35:13 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 3 - Session 3...
    Friday morning I headed back out to the Vernonia airport for lesson number 3. Mike asked me if I'd like to fly the RV-6A this time since it has a constant speed prop similar to what my RV-8 has. The RV-7 we'd flown the day before has a fixed pitch prop. Some constant-speed time sounded like a great idea, so we piled in and took off. I'm really glad that I got some time in the tricycle gear version of the RV as well. I would seem that it would be just like the tail wheel version, but easier. In reality, however, landing and taking off are different propositions and Mike took me though the steps. I'm also glad that I got the training with the constant-speed prop. The angle of decent on final approach is significantly greater with the CS prop and its somewhat disconcerting to be pointing the airplane's nose that far down on final. Its definitely not a flat approach ala a Cessna 172 or even like the Citibrias I've been flying. We flew out towards Scappoose and did some slow flight and climbing turns along with some power off and power on stalls. I was amazed at how far up you have to point the nose on the RV to get it to stall with full power. Way up. I mean WAY up. The stalls were gentle and predictable, but that second stall if you don't get the nose pushed down far enough was a little weird. Other than that, the stall handling and recovery were pretty text-book. We headed over to Scappoose and shot about 8 stop and go landings. Again, kind of a stiff cross wind, but there wasn't too much turbulence so that was good. After that, we headed back to Vernonia and I made a pretty good landing on the grass strip! I didn't get any pictures of the RV-6A we flew today, but attached are some additional pictures of the RV-7 I was flying. - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Test Flight


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:32:06 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 3 - Session 4...
    By the time the afternoon session on Friday rolled around, the weather was looking pretty good. Still cloudy, but clouds were fairly high - around 3500ft - and the wind wasn't blowing too bad. We got back in the RV-7 and took off and headed West toward the Astoria airport out on the coast. We shot a number of stop and go landings here and then headed out to the Oregon Coastline proper at about 800 feet. I got some great pictures from plane as we were flying along. It was amazingly beautiful and I commented to Mike that there are very few people that have had the opportunity to experience the beauty of the coastline from that perspective. Spectacular. We shot a full stop landing at the Seaside Airport (56S) and then headed down the coast a bit further to the Nehalem Bay State Airport (3S7) and shot a landing there as well. From there we headed back to Vernonia where I managed to squeak out yet another pretty good landing! All toll across the 2 days and 4 sessions, I flew 6.0 hours with Mike and made 34 takeoffs and landings. I have to say that I feel much more confident now in the RV. I absolutely cannot recommend this experience highly enough to anyone who is getting ready to fly an RV for the first or near the first time. Whether its for an insurance requirement or not, you cannot afford to not take the time to learn the specifics of flying an RV aircraft. Particularly if you only have Cessna or Piper time, but even if you have a fair amount of tail-dragger time in aircraft such as the Citibria like I did. The training is invaluable and frankly a must. I also cannot speak highly enough of Mike Seager. What a pleasure it was flying with him these last two days. His years of experience really shows and his calm, yet firm manner was perfect for the task at hand. If you are about ready to fly your RV, give Mike a call and schedule some time to get checked out. You won't be sorry you did. I told Mike as I was handing him the check for his effort, "You know Mike, this was the best money I've spent on my RV-8 project", and I truly meant that. - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Test Flight


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:10:36 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official RV8-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the RV8-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete RV8-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV8-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV8-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains RV8-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the RV8-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the RV8-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. 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Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV8-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * RV8-List.FAQ - Latest version of the RV8-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * RV8-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * RV8-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * RV8-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the RV8-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * RV8-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the RV8-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the RV8-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV8 ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV8-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV8-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV8-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV8-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV8-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:18:43 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official RV8-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the RV8-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete RV8-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV8-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV8-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV8-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV8-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV8-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV8-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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