---------------------------------------------------------- RV8-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/09/10: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:49 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (Michael Kraus) 2. 07:03 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (ualpilot3@aol.com) 3. 08:13 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334) 4. 08:51 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334) 5. 09:31 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11@aol.com) 6. 10:09 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11@aol.com) 7. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Terry Watson) 8. 01:19 PM - Van's Float type fuel indicator sensor bending accuracy (Vince Himsl) 9. 04:44 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... () 10. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: fuel selector-(both) (Gordon or Marge) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:11 AM PST US From: Michael Kraus Subject: Re: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... I removed my tanks on my RV-4 to make some modifications. I don't remember it being a big deal at all. I think it took less than 20 minutes per side with a drill motor. I think you'd have a much easier time in removing the tanks and doing it that way. Just one builders opinion.... -Mike Sent from my iPhone On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > Dear Listers, > > Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton > capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea > from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or > the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from > underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to- > wing fairing? Is this even possible? > > I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units > without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I > can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might > just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come > off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying > weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August > or October and it has to be complete before then either way. > > Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much > do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. > > So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for > the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these > units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out > once, I definitely don't want to do this again! > > Thanks for the insight... > > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor! > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... From: ualpilot3@aol.com Matt, I just pulled the fuel senders off a RV-8A to replace the gasket. It is no problem doing it through the tank-fuselage space. Call me if you have any questions. 210-887-4546 Les Bourne -----Original Message----- From: Michael Kraus Sent: Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:45 am Subject: Re: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... I removed my tanks on my RV-4 to make some modifications. I don't remember it being a big deal at all. I think it took less than 20 minutes per side with a drill motor. I think you'd have a much easier time in removing the tanks and doing it that way. Just one builders opinion.... -Mike Sent from my iPhone On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > Dear Listers, > > Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton > capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea > from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or > the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from > underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-> wing fairing? Is this even possible? > > I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units > without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I > can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might > just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come > off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying > weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August > or October and it has to be complete before then either way. > > Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much > do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. > > So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for > the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these > units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out > once, I definitely don't want to do this again! > > Thanks for the insight... > > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor! > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:55 AM PST US From: George Inman 204 287 8334 Subject: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... Dear Listers, Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August or October and it has to be complete before then either way. Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do this again! Thanks for the insight... Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV Matt I managed to remove and re-install my fuel senders without removing the wing. So you should be able to install them. The bending instructions are fairly accurate,but you will have to snap out and reverse the float on one side ,or it will hit an angle on bottom of the tank. George H. Inman ghinman@mts.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:09 AM PST US From: George Inman 204 287 8334 Subject: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... Dear Listers, Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August or October and it has to be complete before then either way. Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do this again! Thanks for the insight... Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV Matt I managed to remove and re-install my fuel senders without removing the wing. So you should be able to install them. The bending instructions are fairly accurate,but you will have to snap out and reverse the float on one side ,or it will hit an angle on bottom of the tank. -- George H. Inman ghinman@mts.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:17 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders Matt, Too bad you couldn't have removed them earlier. Well, I'm in the same boat. And I've been thinking about removing mine also. I haven't done it, but I believe you will be able to remove the old probes and install the float type without removing the tanks. I'm basing this guesstimate on eyeball, but my eyeball is often correct. My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone considering buying them to consider something else - anything else. I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - however I have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector. I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement went. Stan Sutterfield Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August or October and it has to be complete before then either way. Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do this again! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:36 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders Matt, Too bad you couldn't have removed them earlier. Well, I'm in the same boat. And I've been thinking about removing mine also. I haven't done it, but I believe you will be able to remove the old probes and install the float type without removing the tanks. I'm basing this guesstimate on eyeball, but my eyeball is often correct. My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone considering buying them to consider something else - anything else. I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - however I have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector. I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement went. Stan Sutterfield Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August or October and it has to be complete before then either way. Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do this again! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:11:44 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders Stan, Isn't there a cross-feed problem with a 'both' fuel selector on a low wing plane like an RV? Did you find a way to deal with that? Terry From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:15 AM Subject: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders Matt, Too bad you couldn't have removed them earlier. Well, I'm in the same boat. And I've been thinking about removing mine also. I haven't done it, but I believe you will be able to remove the old probes and install the float type without removing the tanks. I'm basing this guesstimate on eyeball, but my eyeball is often correct. My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone considering buying them to consider something else - anything else. I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - however I have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector. I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement went. Stan Sutterfield Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August or October and it has to be complete before then either way. Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do this again! ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:54 PM PST US From: "Vince Himsl" Subject: RV8-List: Van's Float type fuel indicator sensor bending accuracy I have the standard float type from Van's. Following the bending instructions and Dynon D-180 cal procedure, my floats top out at about 16+ gallons (Dynon d-180 cal) and bottom with roughly 2 gallons remaining. I have no problem with that. On the ground I use visual inspection and the fuel flow sensor to gauge tank quantity. In the air I add in the fuel level indications; I have a tail dragger. On the ground a tail dragger fuel level indication is useless but in the air I rely on it as the last word even with the inaccuracies and erroneous deflections caused by the rigors of flight. If you are getting down around 7 gallons in each tank, you have @ 1.5 hours left and are (prudently) looking for a place to fill up. Assuming full tanks, my bladder goes yellow at 20 gal then red at 15; my brain goes yellow at 10, then red at 8; finally, my Dynon goes yellow at 7 (each tank) and red at 5. My fuel flow sensor (again from Dynon) has been surprisingly accurate. Any inaccuracy has been caused by filling the tanks too fast not allowing time for the fuel to settle past the baffles. In other words you have to fill and then wait for the gas to settle a couple of times else you won't really have full tanks. The fuel flow sensor won't catch this (you tell it when you add gas), but the float indicator will, starting at @ 15 gals each tank. So due to the nature of flight, regulations and safety, the question should not be "Are my fuel level indicators accurate?" The question should be "Are my fuel level indicators accurate enough?" Regards, Vince H. RV-8 N8432 57 hours From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Watson Sent: June 09, 2010 10:33 AM Subject: RE: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders Stan, Isn't there a cross-feed problem with a 'both' fuel selector on a low wing plane like an RV? Did you find a way to deal with that? Terry From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:15 AM Subject: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders Matt, Too bad you couldn't have removed them earlier. Well, I'm in the same boat. And I've been thinking about removing mine also. I haven't done it, but I believe you will be able to remove the old probes and install the float type without removing the tanks. I'm basing this guesstimate on eyeball, but my eyeball is often correct. My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone considering buying them to consider something else - anything else. I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - however I have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector. I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement went. Stan Sutterfield Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August or October and it has to be complete before then either way. Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do this again! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:05 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... You can install the Van fuel floats without removing the wing. I don't know about removing the present probes. It will be eaiser if you didn't use pro seal or some other material on the gaskets. Louis Dunn RV8 some day ---- George Inman 204 287 8334 wrote: > > Dear Listers, > > Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton > capacitance fuel > level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone > replaced > these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? > Basically > just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the > fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? > > I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without > destroying > them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling > the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than > later. > But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and > enjoy > the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in > either August > or October and it has to be complete before then either way. > > Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do > you have > to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. > > So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the > S&W float > arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a > one-shot deal. > I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do this > again! > > Thanks for the insight... > > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > > > > > Matt > > I managed to remove and re-install my fuel senders > without removing the wing. > So you should be able to install them. > The bending instructions are fairly accurate,but you will have > to snap out and reverse the float on one side ,or it will hit > an angle on bottom of the tank. > > -- > > George H. Inman > ghinman@mts.net > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:46 PM PST US From: "Gordon or Marge" Subject: RE: RV8-List: Re: fuel selector-(both) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders Matt, My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone considering buying them to consider something else - anything else. I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - however I have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector. I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement went. Stan Sutterfield Stan: You may be fine with a "both" position but my experience with the RV-4 was not. If you haven't already, I suggest an in flight test. With the -4 I found that fuel would flow from the dominant tank to the other and when it (the other) was full, fuel went overboard. The transfer was rapid enough that ~4 gal was transferred in about 15 minutes. Fuel can emerge from the cap, flow to the flap gap and then flow inboard to the wing/fuselage gap. 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