RV8-List Digest Archive

Wed 06/16/10


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:32 AM - Re: RV8A Building Question  (FLYBOY.BOB)
     2. 05:35 AM - Re: RV8A Building Question (Dan Bergeron)
     3. 07:35 AM - Re: RV8A Building Question  (Speedy11@aol.com)
     4. 11:12 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Richard Martin)
     5. 02:21 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Matt Dralle)
     6. 02:52 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Brian Huffaker)
     7. 03:23 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Neal George)
     8. 03:44 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Dan Bergeron)
     9. 04:41 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders ()
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:32:51 AM PST US
    From: "FLYBOY.BOB" <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: RV8A Building Question
    I also bought a partially completed kit but had the help of the previous builder to get me started and on track. I would ask some other builders to look at what you have and where you are and give you some guidance. There are some tasks the are sequential but many stand on there own as a sub assembly or task. The builders manual is no detailed. I refer to the plans for most information. Both the manual and/or plans will have references to the plane you're not building 8 or 8A and that's a little confusing at first. I went through a put a X through pages / sections that didn't apply to me. The Ornduff videos http://www.fly-gbi.com/ were a big help to me too. Find a buddy that's built one! Good Luck, Bob Christensen - RV-8 - N83RC about ready for paint! From: Jerry Grimmonpre Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:41 PM Subject: RV8-List: RV8A Building Question Dear Listers ... I bought a partially complete kit. The building manual was not all there and I'm, therefore, not sure which step to begin next. There are several places where rivets are not installed (pending steps to take, in sequence I'm sure). I would like to learn from this vast group of builders: What should I do to make sure I begin at the next step to keep the sequence of steps in order? It wouldn't be smart to get to a place then find several rivets need drilled-out to install something else. I don't mind buying a new build manual if that's called for, or replacing missing prints. What would you gents do in this case? Many thank for your answers ... Jerry jerry@mc.net


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:35:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: RV8A Building Question
    From: Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b@gmail.com>
    JERRY: BEST ADVICE I CAN GIVE YOU IS BUY THE MANUAL AND DRAWINGS. DO LOTS OF READING AND STUDY THE DRAWINGS CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU GET GOING. IT'LL BE TIME WELL SPENT. DAN BERGERON RV-7A - N307TB 150 HOURS SINCE FIRST FLIGHT ON 08/04/09 On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 8:27 PM, <geezer02@windstream.net> wrote: > > Buy the manual and I hope you have the complete plans, as you will need > them. Then study them before drilling or driving a rivet. > > Louis > RV- 8 completion some day > > ---- Jerry Grimmonpre <jerry@mc.net> wrote: > > > > Dear Listers ... > > I bought a partially complete kit. The building manual was not all there > > and I'm, therefore, not sure which step to begin next. There are several > > places where rivets are not installed (pending steps to take, in sequence > > I'm sure). > > > > I would like to learn from this vast group of builders: > > What should I do to make sure I begin at the next step to keep the > sequence > > of steps in order? It wouldn't be smart to get to a place then find > several > > rivets need drilled-out to install something else. > > > > I don't mind buying a new build manual if that's called for, or replacing > > missing prints. > > > > What would you gents do in this case? > > Many thank for your answers ... > > Jerry > > jerry@mc.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:35:42 AM PST US
    From: Speedy11@aol.com
    Subject: Re: RV8A Building Question
    Jerry, I concur. Buy the manual. If nothing more, it provides you information and some semblance of order. I did not follow the manual exactly because I had a QB, but it was somewhat helpful. You can see much of my building process in what my brother calls the dead sea scrolls on my web site at _www.rv-8a.net_ (http://www.rv-8a.net) . You can also review problems discovered post flying that can be avoided if realized during the building process. I am solving some problems as I do my first annual condition inspection that could have been avoided. Regards, Stan Sutterfield Dear Listers ... I bought a partially complete kit. The building manual was not all there and I'm, therefore, not sure which step to begin next. There are several places where rivets are not installed (pending steps to take, in sequence I'm sure). I would like to learn from this vast group of builders: What should I do to make sure I begin at the next step to keep the sequence of steps in order? It wouldn't be smart to get to a place then find several rivets need drilled-out to install something else. I don't mind buying a new build manual if that's called for, or replacing missing prints. What would you gents do in this case? Many thank for your answers ... Jerry


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:12:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders
    From: Richard Martin <martinaerodrome@gmail.com>
    Dan, I am approaching 2000 hours on my RV8 equiped with the E I fuel gauge and flat plate sensors inside of the fuel tanks. They are accurate within 1 gallon at any quantity between 2 and 40 gallons. Also when fuel level is low, they start to flash as a warning. Good luck Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one dan, I On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b@gmail.com> wrote: > HI ALL: > I'M ONE OF THE RV BUILDERS WHO'VE BEEN HASSLING WITH FUEL GAUGE ISSUES > RIGHT FROM THE GET GO. I INSTALLED THE VANS CAPACITIVE PLATE SENDING UNITS > IN MY TANKS AT TIME OF INITIAL CONSTRUCTION, THNKING I WAS DOING THE RIGHT > THING. THE CAPACITIVE VALUES FROM THE TANKS FEED INTO PRINCETON SENDING > UNITS - GET CONVERTED TO VOLTAGE VALUES - WHICH THEN FEED INTO THE EIS - AND > FROM THERE TO THE GRT SCREEN. THIS COMBINATION DOESN'T WORK WORTH A DARN - > IT'S DOWNRIGHT USELESS. THE GRT (GRAND RAPIDS TECHNOLOGY) IS A GREAT SYSTEM > AND, WITH THIS ONE EXCEPTION, I'M VERY HAPPY WITH IT. > I'M CONSIDERING DROPPING THE TANKS AND INSTALLING FLOAT TYPE SENDING UNITS. > I KNOW FLOATS AREN'T ALL THAT ACCURATE BUT THEY'D SURE BEAT WHAT I'VE GOT > NOW - WHICH IS ABOUT LIKE HAVING NO GAUGES AT ALL. > HOWEVER - I'VE BEEN MULLING OVER ANOTHER OPTION - WHICH IS TO BUY AND > INSTALL THE VANS EI FL - 2C GAUGE @ $415 AND TWO IE P - 300C CONVERTERS @ > $45 EACH - A TOTAL OF $505 PLUS SHIPPING. I HATE TO PART WITH THE $ BUT > I'VE GOT PLENTY OF SPACE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PANEL AND I SEEM TO > REMEMBER SEVERAL BUILDERS COMMENTING THIS COMBINATION WORKS GREAT; THAT WHEN > VAN DESIGNED THE CAPACITIVE, PLATE STYLE SENDING UNITS, HE INTENDED THAT > THEY BE USED WITH THE EI GAUGE AND CONVERTERS. (THEY SURE DON'T WORK WITH > THE PRINCETON/GRT SYSTEM.) > I'D APPRECIATE COMMENTS FROM ANYONE WITH EXPERIENCE WITH THE EI FUEL GAUGE > AND CONVERTER UNITS AND CAPACITIVE PLATE SENDING UNITS. > > DAN BERGERON > RV-7A - N307TB > 149 HOURS SINCE FIRST > FLIGHT ON 08/04/09 > > > On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Michael Kraus < > n223rv@wolflakeairport.net> wrote: > >> > >> >> By the time you went to all that hassle, you could have just removed yours >> and insalled them. It really isn't that big of a deal!!! I'd even venture >> to say you could remove your tanks and do it right faster than working on >> your back with angle tools...... >> >> Do not archive >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:56 AM, Mike Cingari <mcingari@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> Matt, >>> >>> I would find someone with a QB 8 that has yet to install his S&W Floats >>> and use his tanks to set up your floats. >>> >>> Then just transfer them to your tanks. That would minimize the down time >>> and could be done with the wings installed. >>> >>> Good Luck, >>> >>> Mike Cingari >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 11:59 PM, RV8-List Digest Server wrote: >>> >>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's complete RV8-List Digest can also be found in either of the >>>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest >>>> formatted >>>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >>>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >>>> of the RV8-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >>>> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >>>> >>>> HTML Version: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-06-09&Archive=RV8 >>>> >>>> Text Version: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-06-09&Archive=RV8 >>>> >>>> >>>> ====================== >>>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >>>> ====================== >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> RV8-List Digest Archive >>>> --- >>>> Total Messages Posted Wed 06/09/10: 10 >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Message Index: >>>> ---------------------- >>>> >>>> 1. 04:49 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (Michael Kraus) >>>> 2. 07:03 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (ualpilot3@aol.com >>>> ) >>>> 3. 08:13 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 >>>> 8334) >>>> 4. 08:51 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 >>>> 8334) >>>> 5. 09:31 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11@aol.com) >>>> 6. 10:09 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11@aol.com) >>>> 7. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Terry Watson) >>>> 8. 01:19 PM - Van's Float type fuel indicator sensor bending accuracy >>>> (Vince Himsl) >>>> 9. 04:44 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... () >>>> 10. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: fuel selector-(both) (Gordon or Marge) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 1 >>>> _____________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Time: 04:49:11 AM PST US >>>> From: Michael Kraus <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net> >>>> Subject: Re: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... >>>> >>>> >>>> I removed my tanks on my RV-4 to make some modifications. I don't >>>> remember it being a big deal at all. I think it took less than 20 >>>> minutes per side with a drill motor. I think you'd have a much easier >>>> time in removing the tanks and doing it that way. >>>> >>>> Just one builders opinion.... >>>> -Mike >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Listers, >>>>> >>>>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton >>>>> capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea >>>>> from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or >>>>> the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from >>>>> underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to- >>>>> wing fairing? Is this even possible? >>>>> >>>>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units >>>>> without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I >>>>> can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might >>>>> just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come >>>>> off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying >>>>> weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August >>>>> or October and it has to be complete before then either way. >>>>> >>>>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much >>>>> do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. >>>>> >>>>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for >>>>> the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these >>>>> units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out >>>>> once, I definitely don't want to do this again! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the insight... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Matt Dralle >>>>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV >>>>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel >>>>> Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 2 >>>> _____________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Time: 07:03:40 AM PST US >>>> Subject: Re: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... >>>> From: ualpilot3@aol.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt, >>>> >>>> I just pulled the fuel senders off a RV-8A to replace the gasket. It >>>> is no problem doing it through the tank-fuselage space. Call me if you >>>> have any questions. 210-887-4546 >>>> >>>> Les Bourne >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Michael Kraus <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net> >>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:45 am >>>> Subject: Re: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... >>>> >>>> >>>> <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net> >>>> >>>> I removed my tanks on my RV-4 to make some modifications. I don't >>>> remember it being a big deal at all. I think it took less than 20 >>>> minutes per side with a drill motor. I think you'd have a much easier >>>> time in removing the tanks and doing it that way. >>>> >>>> Just one builders opinion.... >>>> -Mike >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Listers, >>>>> >>>>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton > >>>>> >>>> capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea > from >>>> Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or > the >>>> fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from > underneath >>>> the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-> wing >>>> fairing? Is this even possible? >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units > >>>>> >>>> without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I > >>>> can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might > >>>> just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come > >>>> off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying > >>>> weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August > or >>>> October and it has to be complete before then either way. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much > >>>>> >>>> do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for > >>>>> >>>> the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these > units >>>> so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out > once, I >>>> definitely don't want to do this again! >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the insight... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Matt Dralle >>>>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV >>>>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel >>>>> Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 3 >>>> _____________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Time: 08:13:55 AM PST US >>>> From: George Inman 204 287 8334 <ghinman@mts.net> >>>> Subject: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Listers, >>>> >>>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton >>>> capacitance fuel >>>> level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone >>>> replaced >>>> these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? >>>> Basically >>>> just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by >>>> the >>>> fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? >>>> >>>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without >>>> destroying >>>> them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without >>>> pulling >>>> the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than >>>> later. >>>> But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and >>>> enjoy >>>> the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in >>>> either August >>>> or October and it has to be complete before then either way. >>>> >>>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do >>>> you have >>>> to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. >>>> >>>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the >>>> S&W float >>>> arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a >>>> one-shot deal. >>>> I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do >>>> this >>>> again! >>>> >>>> Thanks for the insight... >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt Dralle >>>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> I managed to remove and re-install my fuel senders >>>> without removing the wing. >>>> So you should be able to install them. >>>> The bending instructions are fairly accurate,but you will have >>>> to snap out and reverse the float on one side ,or it will hit >>>> an angle on bottom of the tank. >>>> >>>> George H. Inman >>>> ghinman@mts.net >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 4 >>>> _____________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Time: 08:51:09 AM PST US >>>> From: George Inman 204 287 8334 <ghinman@mts.net> >>>> Subject: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Listers, >>>> >>>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton >>>> capacitance fuel >>>> level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone >>>> replaced >>>> these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? >>>> Basically >>>> just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by >>>> the >>>> fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? >>>> >>>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without >>>> destroying >>>> them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without >>>> pulling >>>> the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than >>>> later. >>>> But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and >>>> enjoy >>>> the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in >>>> either August >>>> or October and it has to be complete before then either way. >>>> >>>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do >>>> you have >>>> to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. >>>> >>>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the >>>> S&W float >>>> arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a >>>> one-shot deal. >>>> I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do >>>> this >>>> again! >>>> >>>> Thanks for the insight... >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt Dralle >>>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> I managed to remove and re-install my fuel senders >>>> without removing the wing. >>>> So you should be able to install them. >>>> The bending instructions are fairly accurate,but you will have >>>> to snap out and reverse the float on one side ,or it will hit >>>> an angle on bottom of the tank. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> George H. Inman >>>> ghinman@mts.net >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 5 >>>> _____________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Time: 09:31:17 AM PST US >>>> From: Speedy11@aol.com >>>> Subject: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt, >>>> Too bad you couldn't have removed them earlier. Well, I'm in the same >>>> boat. And I've been thinking about removing mine also. >>>> I haven't done it, but I believe you will be able to remove the old >>>> probes >>>> and install the float type without removing the tanks. I'm basing this >>>> guesstimate on eyeball, but my eyeball is often correct. >>>> My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone >>>> considering buying them to consider something else - anything else. >>>> I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - >>>> however I >>>> have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector. >>>> I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement >>>> went. >>>> Stan Sutterfield >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton >>>> capacitance >>>> fuel >>>> level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone >>>> replaced >>>> these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? >>>> Basically >>>> just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by >>>> the >>>> fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? >>>> >>>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without >>>> destroying >>>> them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without >>>> pulling >>>> the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than >>>> later. >>>> But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and >>>> enjoy >>>> the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in >>>> either August >>>> or October and it has to be complete before then either way. >>>> >>>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do >>>> you have >>>> to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. >>>> >>>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the >>>> S&W >>>> float >>>> arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a >>>> one-shot >>>> deal. >>>> I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do >>>> this >>>> again! >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 6 >>>> _____________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Time: 10:09:36 AM PST US >>>> From: Speedy11@aol.com >>>> Subject: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt, >>>> Too bad you couldn't have removed them earlier. Well, I'm in the same >>>> boat. And I've been thinking about removing mine also. >>>> I haven't done it, but I believe you will be able to remove the old >>>> probes >>>> and install the float type without removing the tanks. I'm basing this >>>> guesstimate on eyeball, but my eyeball is often correct. >>>> My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone >>>> considering buying them to consider something else - anything else. >>>> I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - >>>> however I >>>> have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector. >>>> I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement >>>> went. >>>> Stan Sutterfield >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton >>>> capacitance >>>> fuel >>>> level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone >>>> replaced >>>> these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? >>>> Basically >>>> just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by >>>> the >>>> fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? >>>> >>>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without >>>> destroying >>>> them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without >>>> pulling >>>> the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than >>>> later. >>>> But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and >>>> enjoy >>>> the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in >>>> either August >>>> or October and it has to be complete before then either way. >>>> >>>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do >>>> you have >>>> to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. >>>> >>>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the >>>> S&W >>>> float >>>> arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a >>>> one-shot >>>> deal. >>>> I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do >>>> this >>>> again! >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 7 >>>> _____________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Time: 11:11:44 AM PST US >>>> From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com> >>>> Subject: RE: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders >>>> >>>> Stan, >>>> >>>> >>>> Isn't there a cross-feed problem with a 'both' fuel selector on a low >>>> wing >>>> plane like an RV? Did you find a way to deal with that? >>>> >>>> >>>> Terry >>>> >>>> >>>> From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>>> Speedy11@aol.com >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:15 AM >>>> Subject: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt, >>>> >>>> Too bad you couldn't have removed them earlier. Well, I'm in the same >>>> boat. >>>> And I've been thinking about removing mine also. >>>> >>>> I haven't done it, but I believe you will be able to remove the old >>>> probes >>>> and install the float type without removing the tanks. I'm basing this >>>> guesstimate on eyeball, but my eyeball is often correct. >>>> >>>> My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone >>>> considering buying them to consider something else - anything else. >>>> >>>> I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - >>>> however I >>>> have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector. >>>> >>>> I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement >>>> went. >>>> >>>> Stan Sutterfield >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton >>>> capacitance >>>> fuel >>>> level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone >>>> replaced >>>> these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? >>>> Basically >>>> just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by >>>> the >>>> fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? >>>> >>>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without >>>> destroying >>>> them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without >>>> pulling >>>> the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than >>>> later. >>>> But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and >>>> enjoy >>>> the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in >>>> either >>>> August >>>> or October and it has to be complete before then either way. >>>> >>>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do >>>> you >>>> have >>>> to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. >>>> >>>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the >>>> S&W >>>> float >>>> arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a >>>> one-shot >>>> deal. >>>> I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do >>>> this >>>> again! >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 8 >>>> _____________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Time: 01:19:54 PM PST US >>>> From: "Vince Himsl" <vshimsl@live.com> >>>> Subject: RV8-List: Van's Float type fuel indicator sensor bending >>>> accuracy >>>> >>>> I have the standard float type from Van's. >>>> >>>> >>>> Following the bending instructions and Dynon D-180 cal procedure, my >>>> floats >>>> top out at about 16+ gallons (Dynon d-180 cal) and bottom with roughly 2 >>>> gallons remaining. I have no problem with that. >>>> >>>> >>>> On the ground I use visual inspection and the fuel flow sensor to gauge >>>> tank >>>> quantity. In the air I add in the fuel level indications; I have a tail >>>> dragger. >>>> >>>> >>>> On the ground a tail dragger fuel level indication is useless but in the >>>> air >>>> I rely on it as the last word even with the inaccuracies and erroneous >>>> deflections caused by the rigors of flight. If you are getting down >>>> around >>>> 7 gallons in each tank, you have @ 1.5 hours left and are (prudently) >>>> looking for a place to fill up. >>>> >>>> >>>> Assuming full tanks, my bladder goes yellow at 20 gal then red at 15; my >>>> brain goes yellow at 10, then red at 8; finally, my Dynon goes yellow at >>>> 7 >>>> (each tank) and red at 5. >>>> >>>> >>>> My fuel flow sensor (again from Dynon) has been surprisingly accurate. >>>> Any >>>> inaccuracy has been caused by filling the tanks too fast not allowing >>>> time >>>> for the fuel to settle past the baffles. In other words you have to >>>> fill >>>> and then wait for the gas to settle a couple of times else you won't >>>> really >>>> have full tanks. The fuel flow sensor won't catch this (you tell it when >>>> you >>>> add gas), but the float indicator will, starting at @ 15 gals each tank. >>>> >>>> >>>> So due to the nature of flight, regulations and safety, the question >>>> should >>>> not be "Are my fuel level indicators accurate?" The question should be >>>> "Are >>>> my fuel level indicators accurate enough?" >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Vince H. >>>> >>>> RV-8 N8432 57 hours >>>> >>>> >>>> From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Watson >>>> Sent: June 09, 2010 10:33 AM >>>> Subject: RE: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders >>>> >>>> >>>> Stan, >>>> >>>> >>>> Isn't there a cross-feed problem with a 'both' fuel selector on a low >>>> wing >>>> plane like an RV? Did you find a way to deal with that? >>>> >>>> >>>> Terry >>>> >>>> >>>> From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>>> Speedy11@aol.com >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:15 AM >>>> Subject: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt, >>>> >>>> Too bad you couldn't have removed them earlier. Well, I'm in the same >>>> boat. >>>> And I've been thinking about removing mine also. >>>> >>>> I haven't done it, but I believe you will be able to remove the old >>>> probes >>>> and install the float type without removing the tanks. I'm basing this >>>> guesstimate on eyeball, but my eyeball is often correct. >>>> >>>> My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone >>>> considering buying them to consider something else - anything else. >>>> >>>> I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - >>>> however I >>>> have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector. >>>> >>>> I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement >>>> went. >>>> >>>> Stan Sutterfield >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton >>>> capacitance >>>> fuel >>>> level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone >>>> replaced >>>> these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? >>>> Basically >>>> just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by >>>> the >>>> fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? >>>> >>>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without >>>> destroying >>>> them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without >>>> pulling >>>> the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than >>>> later. >>>> But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and >>>> enjoy >>>> the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in >>>> either >>>> August >>>> or October and it has to be complete before then either way. >>>> >>>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do >>>> you >>>> have >>>> to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. >>>> >>>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the >>>> S&W >>>> float >>>> arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a >>>> one-shot >>>> deal. >>>> I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do >>>> this >>>> again! >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 9 >>>> _____________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Time: 04:44:05 PM PST US >>>> From: <geezer02@windstream.net> >>>> Subject: Re: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... >>>> >>>> >>>> You can install the Van fuel floats without removing the wing. I don't >>>> know about >>>> removing the present probes. It will be eaiser if you didn't use pro >>>> seal or >>>> some other material on the gaskets. >>>> Louis Dunn >>>> RV8 some day >>>> >>>> ---- George Inman 204 287 8334 <ghinman@mts.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear Listers, >>>>> >>>>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton >>>>> capacitance fuel >>>>> level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone >>>>> replaced >>>>> these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? >>>>> Basically >>>>> just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by >>>>> the >>>>> fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible? >>>>> >>>>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without >>>>> destroying >>>>> them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without >>>>> pulling >>>>> the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than >>>>> later. >>>>> But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and >>>>> enjoy >>>>> the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in >>>>> either August >>>>> or October and it has to be complete before then either way. >>>>> >>>>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do >>>>> you have >>>>> to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating. >>>>> >>>>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the >>>>> S&W float >>>>> arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a >>>>> one-shot deal. >>>>> I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do >>>>> this >>>>> again! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the insight... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Matt Dralle >>>>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Matt >>>>> >>>>> I managed to remove and re-install my fuel senders >>>>> without removing the wing. >>>>> So you should be able to install them. >>>>> The bending instructions are fairly accurate,but you will have >>>>> to snap out and reverse the float on one side ,or it will hit >>>>> an angle on bottom of the tank. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> George H. Inman >>>>> ghinman@mts.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 10 >>>> ____________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Time: 05:43:46 PM PST US >>>> From: "Gordon or Marge" <gcomfo@tc3net.com> >>>> Subject: RE: RV8-List: Re: fuel selector-(both) >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>>> Speedy11@aol.com >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 12:15 PM >>>> Subject: RV8-List: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt, >>>> >>>> My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone >>>> considering buying them to consider something else - anything else. >>>> I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - >>>> however I >>>> have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector. >>>> I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement >>>> went. >>>> Stan Sutterfield >>>> >>>> Stan: You may be fine with a "both" position but my experience with the >>>> RV-4 was not. If you haven't already, I suggest an in flight test. >>>> With >>>> the -4 I found that fuel would flow from the dominant tank to the other >>>> and >>>> when it (the other) was full, fuel went overboard. The transfer was >>>> rapid >>>> enough that ~4 gal was transferred in about 15 minutes. Fuel can >>>> emerge >>>> from the cap, flow to the flap gap and then flow inboard to the >>>> wing/fuselage gap. >>>> >>>> Gordon Comfort >>>> N363GC >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ========== >> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > > * > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:21:41 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders
    Are the flatplate probes installable as a retro fit or do you have to install them during construction of the tank? Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor... At 11:11 AM 6/16/2010 Wednesday, you wrote: >Dan, >I am approaching 2000 hours on my RV8 equiped with the E I fuel gauge and flat plate sensors inside of the fuel tanks. They are accurate within 1 gallon at any quantity between 2 and 40 gallons. Also when fuel level is low, they start to flash as a warning. >Good luck >Dick Martin >RV8 N233M >the fast on


    Message 6


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    Time: 02:52:04 PM PST US
    From: Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission.com>
    Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders
    On Wed, 16 Jun 2010, Matt Dralle wrote: > > Are the flatplate probes installable as a retro fit or do you have to >install them during construction of the tank? I don't think it could be done without taking the back baffle off. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 fitting wings. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:23:12 PM PST US
    From: "Neal George" <n8zg@att.net>
    Subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders
    Matt - You could install Van's capacitive plates by cutting access panels in the rear baffle. Make parts similar to T-407 and T-408 (but without the extra holes) to close the rear baffle. Or simply Proseal and pop-rivet a patch over the holes you make. Neal -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:16 PM Subject: Re: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders Are the flatplate probes installable as a retro fit or do you have to install them during construction of the tank? Matt Dralle


    Message 8


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    Time: 03:44:18 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders
    From: Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b@gmail.com>
    BRIAN: THE FLAT PLATE CAPACITIVE PROBES HAVE TO BE INSTALLED DURING CONSTRUCTION OF THE TANKS. THERE IS NO PRACTICAL WAY TO RETROFIT THEM AFTER THE TANKS ARE FINISHED. YOU'D HAVE TO REMOVE THE BACK OF THE TANK. I'VE DECIDED TO SOLVE MY FUEL GAUGE ISSUE BY INSTALLING AN EI FUEL GAUGE ON THE PANEL AND VANS CONVERTER UNITS UNDER THE FLOOR BOARDS. OTHER BUILDERS REPORT GOOD RESULTS WITH THAT SETUP. (I HAVE VANS CAPACITIVE PLATES IN THE TANKS, PRINCETON CONVERTER UNITS UNDER THE FLOOR, A GRT EIS BOX AND GRT DISPLAY UNITS. THE GRT SETUP IS GREAT, BUT THAT COMBINATION FOR FUEL MEASUREMENT PURPOSES IS USELESS. DAN BERGERON RV-7A - N307TB 150 HOURS SINCE FIRST FLIGHT ON 08/04/10 On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission.com> wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2010, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > > > Are the flatplate probes installable as a retro fit or do you have to > >install them during construction of the tank? > > I don't think it could be done without taking the back baffle off. > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com) > RV-8A 80091 fitting wings. > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 04:41:01 PM PST US
    From: <av8er2fly@peoplepc.com>
    Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders
    Sorry Matt but they need to be installed when building the tanks. Mark Rose RV8A 137MR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:16 PM Subject: Re: RV8-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders > > Are the flatplate probes installable as a retro fit or do you have to > install them during construction of the tank? > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor... > > > At 11:11 AM 6/16/2010 Wednesday, you wrote: >>Dan, >>I am approaching 2000 hours on my RV8 equiped with the E I fuel gauge and >>flat plate sensors inside of the fuel tanks. They are accurate within 1 >>gallon at any quantity between 2 and 40 gallons. Also when fuel level is >>low, they start to flash as a warning. >>Good luck >>Dick Martin >>RV8 N233M >>the fast on > > >




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