Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:28 AM - Re: Nutplate installation (pilotjt)
2. 07:10 AM - RV Speeds (Speedy11@aol.com)
3. 09:28 AM - Re: RV Speeds (William L. Paulin)
4. 10:33 AM - Re: RV Speeds (Brian Huffaker)
5. 10:52 AM - Re: RV Speeds (Matt Dralle)
6. 11:16 AM - Re: RV Speeds (Timothy E. Cone)
7. 08:42 PM - Re: RV Speeds (Speedy11@aol.com)
8. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: RV Speeds (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Nutplate installation |
Stan,
Have you tried nutplate rivets? They can be installed with a standard rivet puller.
:)
http://www.cherryaerospace.com/html/product/blindrivets.html
--------
Regards, JT
RV8 N110JT
FWF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309092#309092
Message 2
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I've done multiple GPS speed calculations and all of the TAS calculations
came within one knot of the EFIS TAS numbers, so if I have a CAS error, it
is not very large.
My A is less draggy than a neighbors 390 powered A and we've used WOT side
by side and I pull away from him. I'm also working on reducing drag before
painting in the fall. I'm working on winglets, I'm fairing the aileron
hinges and fuel drains, I'm working on cooling air drag, I'm making mods to
the wheel pants, I have straight exhaust pipes for "jet effect," and other
speed mods.
The best I can do right now is 184 KIAS at 1K" - WOT and 2680 RPM. My goa
l, with mods, is to indicate 188. I just can't seem to get the numbers
that others are getting.
Stan Sutterfield
Airspeed calibration error .... or drag?
BIll
Matt,
I must be doing something wrong because my IO-390 powered RV-8A numbers
aren't even close to yours.
At 7K', to get 177 KTAS (204 MPH TAS) I have to burn 10.2 GPH and turn
2450 RPM. I can get 3000 FPM climb, but only to pattern altitude.
Enroute climb at 145-150 KIAS produces only 600 FPM. I've climbed to
15.5K' and I'm planning a test flight to FL240 - to see if it will make
it.
I have Bower's ram air and a MT 3 blade - both of which should help with
high altitude performance.
I'm planning a trip from FL to VT in 2 weeks, so I'll see how my cruise
numbers are after that flight.
But, with the numbers I have now, I'm nowhere near your numbers.
I wonder why?
Stan Sutterfield
rv-8a.net
On the way home, I had the IO-390 engine dialed in at 7000ft, 22.4" MP /
2200 RPM and 204 MPH True at 8.8 GPH. Earlier in the week I took it to
18,000ft
(on oxygen) and was seeing 170 MPH True at 5.5 GPH, 192 MPH @ 6.5 GPH,
and
202 MPG @ 7 GPH. At the 5.5 GPH, that's about a 1300 mile range less
reserves.
Coupled with the 3000+ FPM climb solo
Message 3
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Sorry to act like an expert when I am only an obsolete aerodynamisist
but:
1. If you are relatively sure of your weight, airspeed, altitude and
engine calibrations (i.e., sure you are pretty close to lift, speed,
altitude and thrust measures), then
2. Since T= D & L=W in unaccelerated flight,
3. Either your D is higher than the others (due to W --> L --> D ... or
just D items), or they are wrong in their airplane performance measures.
4. If you believe their claims (I'd be careful here), then you have
more W, less T or more D than you think.
But since you pull away from your friend (and assuming his calibrations
are OK), then my personal guess is that you have to doubt the other's
claims / calibrations.
If you don't, then my personal guess would be that since you probably
know your engine (T) and W pretty well (but I am not an engine expert),
the airframe D is the problem (out of rig, bad airfoils, etc., etc.) ...
but your problem then becomes endless. Flying side by side seems the
simplest way to get at differing "calibrations."
But again, I am just guessing and probably no help at all.
Bill
On Aug 17, 2010, at 7:08 AM, Speedy11@aol.com wrote:
I've done multiple GPS speed calculations and all of the TAS
calculations came within one knot of the EFIS TAS numbers, so if I have
a CAS error, it is not very large.
My A is less draggy than a neighbors 390 powered A and we've used WOT
side by side and I pull away from him. I'm also working on reducing
drag before painting in the fall. I'm working on winglets, I'm fairing
the aileron hinges and fuel drains, I'm working on cooling air drag, I'm
making mods to the wheel pants, I have straight exhaust pipes for "jet
effect," and other speed mods.
The best I can do right now is 184 KIAS at 1K" - WOT and 2680 RPM. My
goal, with mods, is to indicate 188. I just can't seem to get the
numbers that others are getting.
Stan Sutterfield
Airspeed calibration error .... or drag?
BIll
Matt,
I must be doing something wrong because my IO-390 powered RV-8A numbers
aren't even close to yours.
At 7K', to get 177 KTAS (204 MPH TAS) I have to burn 10.2 GPH and turn
2450 RPM. I can get 3000 FPM climb, but only to pattern altitude.
Enroute climb at 145-150 KIAS produces only 600 FPM. I've climbed to
15.5K' and I'm planning a test flight to FL240 - to see if it will make
it.
I have Bower's ram air and a MT 3 blade - both of which should help with
high altitude performance.
I'm planning a trip from FL to VT in 2 weeks, so I'll see how my cruise
numbers are after that flight.
But, with the numbers I have now, I'm nowhere near your numbers.
I wonder why?
Stan Sutterfield
rv-8a.net
On the way home, I had the IO-390 engine dialed in at 7000ft, 22.4" MP /
2200 RPM and 204 MPH True at 8.8 GPH. Earlier in the week I took it to
18,000ft
(on oxygen) and was seeing 170 MPH True at 5.5 GPH, 192 MPH @ 6.5 GPH,
and
202 MPG @ 7 GPH. At the 5.5 GPH, that's about a 1300 mile range less
reserves.
Coupled with the 3000+ FPM climb solo
***********************************
William & Sandra Paulin
1575 South Forest Drive
Prescott, AZ 86303
Bill
Cell +1 858 722 2905
Office +1 760 720 2905
Europe +358 40 720 4047
wpaulin@usa.net
Sandy
Cell +1 858 349 1729
Office +1 928 443 7739
Message 4
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2010, Speedy11@aol.com wrote:
> The best I can do right now is 184 KIAS at 1K" - WOT and 2680 RPM. My goa
> l, with mods, is to indicate 188. I just can't seem to get the numbers
> that others are getting.
I wonder how much of the difference is knots indicated vs mph true?
184 knots indicated would be 212 mph at sea level, about the same as Van's
180hp numbers.
> On the way home, I had the IO-390 engine dialed in at 7000ft, 22.4" MP /
> 2200 RPM and 204 MPH True at 8.8 GPH. Earlier in the week I took it to
This calculator:
http://www.newbyte.co.il/calc.html
shows 204 TAS at 7000' (standard atmosphere) to be 184 mph CAS, or 160
KIAS.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091 Fitting wings
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
Message 5
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On multiple occasions, I have seen a top speed of 229-230 mph true at about 2000
msl, full throttle, and 2700 rpm, and gently leaned. This was confirmed by
the GPS GS from both the EFIS GPS and the Kenwood GPS. The autopilot was on to
assure no ascending/descending error. These were on cool evenings (70-75f).
That being said, there are other days when it won't go much above 222-225 mph.
I will rig up the cockpit HD video camera again to verify my readings...
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 90+ Hours TTSN - Enjoying Every Minute...
At 07:08 AM 8/17/2010 Tuesday, you wrote:
>
>I've done multiple GPS speed calculations and all of the TAS calculations came
within one knot of the EFIS TAS numbers, so if I have a CAS error, it is not
very large.
>My A is less draggy than a neighbors 390 powered A and we've used WOT side by
side and I pull away from him. I'm also working on reducing drag before painting
in the fall. I'm working on winglets, I'm fairing the aileron hinges and
fuel drains, I'm working on cooling air drag, I'm making mods to the wheel pants,
I have straight exhaust pipes for "jet effect," and other speed mods.
>The best I can do right now is 184 KIAS at 1K" - WOT and 2680 RPM. My goal, with
mods, is to indicate 188. I just can't seem to get the numbers that others
are getting.
>Stan Sutterfield
>
>Airspeed calibration error .... or drag?
>
>BIll
>
>
>Matt,
>I must be doing something wrong because my IO-390 powered RV-8A numbers
>aren't even close to yours.
>At 7K', to get 177 KTAS (204 MPH TAS) I have to burn 10.2 GPH and turn
>2450 RPM. I can get 3000 FPM climb, but only to pattern altitude.
>Enroute climb at 145-150 KIAS produces only 600 FPM. I've climbed to
>15.5K' and I'm planning a test flight to FL240 - to see if it will make
>it.
>I have Bower's ram air and a MT 3 blade - both of which should help with
>high altitude performance.
>I'm planning a trip from FL to VT in 2 weeks, so I'll see how my cruise
>numbers are after that flight.
>But, with the numbers I have now, I'm nowhere near your numbers.
>I wonder why?
>Stan Sutterfield
>rv-8a.net
>On the way home, I had the IO-390 engine dialed in at 7000ft, 22.4" MP /
>2200 RPM and 204 MPH True at 8.8 GPH. Earlier in the week I took it to
>18,000ft
>(on oxygen) and was seeing 170 MPH True at 5.5 GPH, 192 MPH @ 6.5 GPH,
>and
>202 MPG @ 7 GPH. At the 5.5 GPH, that's about a 1300 mile range less
>reserves.
>Coupled with the 3000+ FPM climb solo
>
>
Message 6
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Matt,
The National Test Pilot School has a nice excel spreadsheet for removing the
effects of wind in determining true airspeed.
http://www.ntps.edu/images/stories/documents/gps-pec.XLS
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV8-List: RV Speeds
>
> On multiple occasions, I have seen a top speed of 229-230 mph true at
> about 2000 msl, full throttle, and 2700 rpm, and gently leaned. This was
> confirmed by the GPS GS from both the EFIS GPS and the Kenwood GPS. The
> autopilot was on to assure no ascending/descending error. These were on
> cool evenings (70-75f).
>
> That being said, there are other days when it won't go much above 222-225
> mph.
>
> I will rig up the cockpit HD video camera again to verify my readings...
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 90+ Hours TTSN - Enjoying Every Minute...
>
>
> At 07:08 AM 8/17/2010 Tuesday, you wrote:
>>
>>I've done multiple GPS speed calculations and all of the TAS calculations
>>came within one knot of the EFIS TAS numbers, so if I have a CAS error, it
>>is not very large.
>>My A is less draggy than a neighbors 390 powered A and we've used WOT side
>>by side and I pull away from him. I'm also working on reducing drag
>>before painting in the fall. I'm working on winglets, I'm fairing the
>>aileron hinges and fuel drains, I'm working on cooling air drag, I'm
>>making mods to the wheel pants, I have straight exhaust pipes for "jet
>>effect," and other speed mods.
>>The best I can do right now is 184 KIAS at 1K" - WOT and 2680 RPM. My
>>goal, with mods, is to indicate 188. I just can't seem to get the numbers
>>that others are getting.
>>Stan Sutterfield
>>
>>Airspeed calibration error .... or drag?
>>
>>BIll
>>
>>
>>Matt,
>>I must be doing something wrong because my IO-390 powered RV-8A numbers
>>aren't even close to yours.
>>At 7K', to get 177 KTAS (204 MPH TAS) I have to burn 10.2 GPH and turn
>>2450 RPM. I can get 3000 FPM climb, but only to pattern altitude.
>>Enroute climb at 145-150 KIAS produces only 600 FPM. I've climbed to
>>15.5K' and I'm planning a test flight to FL240 - to see if it will make
>>it.
>>I have Bower's ram air and a MT 3 blade - both of which should help with
>>high altitude performance.
>>I'm planning a trip from FL to VT in 2 weeks, so I'll see how my cruise
>>numbers are after that flight.
>>But, with the numbers I have now, I'm nowhere near your numbers.
>>I wonder why?
>>Stan Sutterfield
>>rv-8a.net
>>On the way home, I had the IO-390 engine dialed in at 7000ft, 22.4" MP /
>>2200 RPM and 204 MPH True at 8.8 GPH. Earlier in the week I took it to
>>18,000ft
>>(on oxygen) and was seeing 170 MPH True at 5.5 GPH, 192 MPH @ 6.5 GPH,
>>and
>>202 MPG @ 7 GPH. At the 5.5 GPH, that's about a 1300 mile range less
>>reserves.
>>Coupled with the 3000+ FPM climb solo
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Well, I had to see what my IO-390 RV-8A would do at 18K, so today I
climbed to 17,500 (couldn't get ATC clearance higher) and had the following
numbers:
15.4" MP - 2400 RPM - 8.5 GPH - KIAS 124 - KTAS 166 (191 MPH)
15.4" MP - 2310 RPM - 9.0 GPH - KIAS 120 - KTAS 162 (186 MPH)
Fuel pump was out of service, so I'll confirm the actual fuel burn next
week.
I'm simply not getting your numbers, Matt. Must be my ham fisted flying.
I can't imagine that the engines are that much different.
Scratching my cranium.
Stan Sutterfield
Matt,
I must be doing something wrong because my IO-390 powered RV-8A numbers
aren't even close to yours.
At 7K', to get 177 KTAS (204 MPH TAS) I have to burn 10.2 GPH and turn
2450
RPM. I can get 3000 FPM climb, but only to pattern altitude. Enroute
climb at 145-150 KIAS produces only 600 FPM. I've climbed to 15.5K' and
I'm
planning a test flight to FL240 - to see if it will make it.
I have Bower's ram air and a MT 3 blade - both of which should help with
high altitude performance.
I'm planning a trip from FL to VT in 2 weeks, so I'll see how my cruise
numbers are after that flight.
But, with the numbers I have now, I'm nowhere near your numbers.
I wonder why?
Stan Sutterfield
rv-8a.net
On the way home, I had the IO-390 engine dialed in at 7000ft, 22.4" MP /
2200 RPM and 204 MPH True at 8.8 GPH. Earlier in the week I took it to
18,000ft
(on oxygen) and was seeing 170 MPH True at 5.5 GPH, 192 MPH @ 6.5 GPH, and
202 MPG @ 7 GPH. At the 5.5 GPH, that's about a 1300 mile range less
reserves.
Coupled with the 3000+ FPM climb solo
Message 8
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Looks to me like your RPMs are WAY too high! At 5.5gph I was at 2000 RPM. Lowering
the RPM is how you get the flow rates down. Bigger bite might make you
go faster too.
I want to say that at 5.5/2000/18000/170mph I was at about 12.5" MP. I think that
I took still pictures of the EFIS's in all the various configurations I did.
I'll download them from the Camera and double check my numbers.
Matt
At 08:36 PM 8/17/2010 Tuesday, you wrote:
>
>Well, I had to see what my IO-390 RV-8A would do at 18K, so today I climbed to
17,500 (couldn't get ATC clearance higher) and had the following numbers:
>15.4" MP - 2400 RPM - 8.5 GPH - KIAS 124 - KTAS 166 (191 MPH)
>15.4" MP - 2310 RPM - 9.0 GPH - KIAS 120 - KTAS 162 (186 MPH)
>Fuel pump was out of service, so I'll confirm the actual fuel burn next week.
>I'm simply not getting your numbers, Matt. Must be my ham fisted flying. I can't
imagine that the engines are that much different.
>Scratching my cranium.
>Stan Sutterfield
>Matt,
>I must be doing something wrong because my IO-390 powered RV-8A numbers
>aren't even close to yours.
>At 7K', to get 177 KTAS (204 MPH TAS) I have to burn 10.2 GPH and turn 2450
>RPM. I can get 3000 FPM climb, but only to pattern altitude. Enroute
>climb at 145-150 KIAS produces only 600 FPM. I've climbed to 15.5K' and I'm
>planning a test flight to FL240 - to see if it will make it.
>I have Bower's ram air and a MT 3 blade - both of which should help with
>high altitude performance.
>I'm planning a trip from FL to VT in 2 weeks, so I'll see how my cruise
>numbers are after that flight.
>But, with the numbers I have now, I'm nowhere near your numbers.
>I wonder why?
>Stan Sutterfield
>rv-8a.net
>
>On the way home, I had the IO-390 engine dialed in at 7000ft, 22.4" MP /
>2200 RPM and 204 MPH True at 8.8 GPH. Earlier in the week I took it to
>18,000ft
>(on oxygen) and was seeing 170 MPH True at 5.5 GPH, 192 MPH @ 6.5 GPH, and
>202 MPG @ 7 GPH. At the 5.5 GPH, that's about a 1300 mile range less
>reserves.
>Coupled with the 3000+ FPM climb solo
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
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