---------------------------------------------------------- RV8-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/02/11: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:49 AM - Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Follow Up) (Matt Dralle) 2. 10:07 AM - Re: Canopy Skirt Buzz... (Follow Up) (Matt Dralle) 3. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Follow Up) (Robin Marks) 4. 06:56 PM - Bogi-Bar? (FLYBOY.BOB) 5. 07:41 PM - Re: Bogi-Bar? (Michael Kraus) 6. 07:47 PM - Re: Bogi-Bar? (Larry Bowen) 7. 08:37 PM - Re: Bogi-Bar? (tailgummer@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:21 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV8-List: Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Follow Up) Last night I went out and measured the position of the left aileron and found it to be pretty darn close to perfect on both inboard and outboard edges. I measured the right aileron and noted that the outboard edge was about 1/32 lower than the inboard edge. So, I thought I'd try splitting the different between the original location and the current one. I went out test this new setting and to my amazement and jubilation, the trim is almost dead center across the speed range of 170-230mph. A little tap either way easily accounts for fuel burn on a given side. I also noted that the skid ball is nicely dead center across those speed ranges. Yahoo! One less thing to worry about! Thanks to everyone on the List for their input! Very much appreciated! - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left... At 09:27 AM 4/1/2011 Friday, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > >After a good night's rest I got to thinking about these most recent observations. Dropping the RIGHT aileron a 1/16" caused the trim requirement at high speed to go from the previous full-LEFT to a full-RIGHT setting. Wouldn't this imply that now the LEFT aileron needs a similar adjustment perhaps? Maybe only a 1/32" on the left side? Seems that if a given aileron that was too HIGH was dropped too much it would still cause the same drag/trim problem if its too LOW? So the fact that now my trim is completely the opposite implies that the RIGHT aileron is probably now exactly on and moreover, it was TWICE as much too high as the LEFT aileron still is. > >Does any of this make sense? > >- >Matt Dralle > >At 08:47 PM 3/31/2011 Thursday, you wrote: >>--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle >> >>Thanks to everyone for the great feedback on this issue!! >> >>I went out after work tonight and had a look at the aileron alignment and sure enough, the outboard edge of the right aileron was high by about 1/16-3/32 of an inch. I took the hinge off the aileron and elongated the holes slightly and reassembled, dropping the outboard side by about 1/16". I went out and took it up to about 220mph and now - are you ready for this - it requires full RIGHT trim! Completely the opposite from before. So, obviously I need to reduce the drop by 50% and I should be dead-on neutral trim! Its amazing to me how such a little movement had such a HUGE impact on the trim. No, aileron edge smooshing necessary, by the way! Whew! >> >>Best, >>- >>Matt Dralle >> >>At 09:10 AM 3/31/2011 Thursday, Matt Dralle wrote: >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle >>> >>> >>>Dear Listers, >>> >>>Well, taking the RV-8 in for paint is getting closer and closer and I'm trying to get all the little things that need doing done before then. Dealing with the heavy right wing is the next thing on the list. Currently, at low speed I have about neutral aileron trim. The faster I go, the more LEFT trim I need. Above 200mph, I run out of left trim and the left aileron is noticeably "up", maybe .125" or so. Both of my ailerons are "chubby" at the trailing edge. I wanted to confirm with the List that "squeezing" the RIGHT aileron will add a bit of lift on the RIGHT side and hopefully neutralize the issue? >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>>Matt ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:26 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV8-List: Re: Canopy Skirt Buzz... (Follow Up) Since I wrote the message below, the ambient temps have gone up quite a bit and I started opening the air vents in the cabin again. Well, the combination of the warmer canopy parts and the extra pressure inside the cabin because of the vents, the buzz returned and was pretty loud. At cruse, the buzz was louder than the engine! So yesterday I took a look at where the buzz might actually becoming from. Closer inspection showed that, about right in the middle of the fiberglass skirt "curve" behind the rear seat it wasn't quite lying flush against the top fuselage skin. I found that I could kind of hammer on the skirt with my finger at the high point and make a sound similar to what I was hearing in flight. Last Summer, I had put a strip of Velcro "loops" all the way around the base of the canopy skirt which definitely deaden the noise. BUT, after sitting out in the 110 degree sun, the glue on the Velcro got all melty and the tape started to slide do to the side "stress" of applying the tape on the curve. I noticed during a trip to Lowes last night that they have a "Heavy Duty" version of the Velcro tape that is suppose to hold up to outdoor conditions. I bought a roll and headed out to the airport. I didn't really want to put tape all the way around the base of the skirt like before in case this new Heavy Duty stuff didn't hold up in the sun either. So, I found the aforementioned high spots on the left and right sides, and simply applied a 3" long strip at the "transition" area between where the skirt was touching the skin and the high-point of the skirt above the skin. I noted that tapping on the area didn't yield nearly the buzz as before. I went out and flew and I'm extremely happy to report that the buzzing is completely gone!! I feel its kind of the perfect solution in that now I have a nice layer of UHMW all the way around the canopy skirt to minimize the top skin abrasion, and have stopped the buzzing with a simple and easily replaceable solution. Matt's $.02. Best regards, - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left... At 12:15 PM 3/22/2011 Tuesday, Matt Dralle wrote: >At 10:25 AM 3/22/2011 Tuesday, you wrote: >>Matt, >>Did you settle on a material that you preferred for deadening the canopy buzz [on your RV-8]? We are experiencing the same thing but at a very narrow speed range. Before we reinvent the wheel I figured I would ask. >> >>Thanks, >>Robin > > >Hi Robin, > >Yes, solved mostly. Here the stuff to get: > >http://cshyde.thomasnet.com/viewitems/tapes-with-psa/uhmw-tape--black-anti-stat-rubber-adhesive?forward=1 > >This is black UHMW table with a rubber adhesive (good to 150F). I got the .020" stuff. > >Its not very bendable sideways, so don't try to get the .5" kind and wrap it around the s-curve in the back. It definitely won't stick for very long. > >Get the 6" wide stuff - Part number 19-20BLK-6-5 (5 yards) or 19-20BLK-6-18 (18 yards) - and lay it flat over the skirt on the inside and then trace the contour. Move it up by about .75" and then trace again. Then cut out the piece which should be a perfect fit around the inside edge of the canopy skirt. I forgot to take any pictures of the process! That's so not like me! :-) > >I also used the .5" stuff (19-20BLK-.5-5) for along the straight left and right side of the skirt. Although, I wish I'd used the .75 stuff. > >Seems to dampen the vibration and also doesn't mark the paint/metal due to its low co-efficient of friction. Its basically the same stuff that Van's sells for the flaps, but much thicker and black. I also like the high-temp rubber adhesive. We'll see how it holds up over the Summer. > >My only complaint is that I wish they made a .040" thick version. > >- >Matt Dralle ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:52 PM PST US From: Robin Marks Subject: RE: RV8-List: Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Follow Up) Now paint and start the rigging process all over again! Matt, thanks for the follow up on the canopy buzz. I purchased heavy duty Velcro today and will try it this week. Thanks, Robin -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 9:45 AM Subject: RV8-List: Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Follow Up) Last night I went out and measured the position of the left aileron and found it to be pretty darn close to perfect on both inboard and outboard edges. I measured the right aileron and noted that the outboard edge was about 1/32 lower than the inboard edge. So, I thought I'd try splitting the different between the original location and the current one. I went out test this new setting and to my amazement and jubilation, the trim is almost dead center across the speed range of 170-230mph. A little tap either way easily accounts for fuel burn on a given side. I also noted that the skid ball is nicely dead center across those speed ranges. Yahoo! One less thing to worry about! Thanks to everyone on the List for their input! Very much appreciated! - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left... At 09:27 AM 4/1/2011 Friday, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > >After a good night's rest I got to thinking about these most recent observations. Dropping the RIGHT aileron a 1/16" caused the trim requirement at high speed to go from the previous full-LEFT to a full-RIGHT setting. Wouldn't this imply that now the LEFT aileron needs a similar adjustment perhaps? Maybe only a 1/32" on the left side? Seems that if a given aileron that was too HIGH was dropped too much it would still cause the same drag/trim problem if its too LOW? So the fact that now my trim is completely the opposite implies that the RIGHT aileron is probably now exactly on and moreover, it was TWICE as much too high as the LEFT aileron still is. > >Does any of this make sense? > >- >Matt Dralle > >At 08:47 PM 3/31/2011 Thursday, you wrote: >>--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle >> >>Thanks to everyone for the great feedback on this issue!! >> >>I went out after work tonight and had a look at the aileron alignment and sure enough, the outboard edge of the right aileron was high by about 1/16-3/32 of an inch. I took the hinge off the aileron and elongated the holes slightly and reassembled, dropping the outboard side by about 1/16". I went out and took it up to about 220mph and now - are you ready for this - it requires full RIGHT trim! Completely the opposite from before. So, obviously I need to reduce the drop by 50% and I should be dead-on neutral trim! Its amazing to me how such a little movement had such a HUGE impact on the trim. No, aileron edge smooshing necessary, by the way! Whew! >> >>Best, >>- >>Matt Dralle >> >>At 09:10 AM 3/31/2011 Thursday, Matt Dralle wrote: >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle >>> >>> >>>Dear Listers, >>> >>>Well, taking the RV-8 in for paint is getting closer and closer and I'm trying to get all the little things that need doing done before then. Dealing with the heavy right wing is the next thing on the list. Currently, at low speed I have about neutral aileron trim. The faster I go, the more LEFT trim I need. Above 200mph, I run out of left trim and the left aileron is noticeably "up", maybe .125" or so. Both of my ailerons are "chubby" at the trailing edge. I wanted to confirm with the List that "squeezing" the RIGHT aileron will add a bit of lift on the RIGHT side and hopefully neutralize the issue? >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>>Matt ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:38 PM PST US From: "FLYBOY.BOB" Subject: RV8-List: Bogi-Bar? I recently purchased a Bogi-Bar for my RV-8. Unfortunately the bar won=99t fit over the cotter-pin on the side with the castellated nut. Has anyone solved this problem? Thanks, Bob Christensen =93 N83RC ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:34 PM PST US From: Michael Kraus Subject: Re: RV8-List: Bogi-Bar? On my RV-4, I had to crush the pin (strategically) and it worked great for y ears!! Sent from my iPhone On Apr 2, 2011, at 9:53 PM, "FLYBOY.BOB" wrote: > > I recently purchased a Bogi-Bar for my RV-8. > > Unfortunately the bar won=99t fit over the cotter-pin on the side wi th the castellated nut. > > Has anyone solved this problem? > > Thanks, > Bob Christensen =93 N83RC > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV8-List: Bogi-Bar? From: Larry Bowen SSBkaWQgdGhlIHNhbWUgb24gbXkgOC4gTm90IGEgYmlnIGRlYWwuCk9uIEFwciAyLCAyMDExIDEw OjQyIFBNLCAiTWljaGFlbCBLcmF1cyIgPG4yMjNydkB3b2xmbGFrZWFpcnBvcnQubmV0PiB3cm90 ZToKPiBPbiBteSBSVi00LCBJIGhhZCB0byBjcnVzaCB0aGUgcGluIChzdHJhdGVnaWNhbGx5KSBh bmQgaXQgd29ya2VkIGdyZWF0IGZvcgp5ZWFycyEhCj4KPiBTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBob25lCj4K PiBPbiBBcHIgMiwgMjAxMSwgYXQgOTo1MyBQTSwgIkZMWUJPWS5CT0IiIDxmbHlib3kuYm9iQGdt YWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cj4KPj4KPj4gSSByZWNlbnRseSBwdXJjaGFzZWQgYSBCb2dpLUJhciBm b3IgbXkgUlYtOC4KPj4KPj4gVW5mb3J0dW5hdGVseSB0aGUgYmFyIHdvbpJ0IGZpdCBvdmVyIHRo ZSBjb3R0ZXItcGluIG9uIHRoZSBzaWRlIHdpdGggdGhlCmNhc3RlbGxhdGVkIG51dC4KPj4KPj4g SGFzIGFueW9uZSBzb2x2ZWQgdGhpcyBwcm9ibGVtPwo+Pgo+PiBUaGFua3MsCj4+IEJvYiBDaHJp c3RlbnNlbiCWIE44M1JDCj4+Cj4+Cj4+Cj4+Cj4gPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09Cj4gPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cj4gPT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cj4gPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09Cj4+Cg= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV8-List: Bogi-Bar? From: tailgummer@aol.com I took a cut off wheel to one ear and "machined" a little space to accommo date the cotter pin. Touched it up with a little paint, works fine. Cotter pin intact. John D'Onofrio -----Original Message----- From: Larry Bowen Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2011 7:44 pm Subject: Re: RV8-List: Bogi-Bar? I did the same on my 8. Not a big deal. On Apr 2, 2011 10:42 PM, "Michael Kraus" wrot e: > On my RV-4, I had to crush the pin (strategically) and it worked great for years!! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 2, 2011, at 9:53 PM, "FLYBOY.BOB" wrote: > >> >> I recently purchased a Bogi-Bar for my RV-8. >> >> Unfortunately the bar won=99t fit over the cotter-pin on the side with the castellated nut. >> >> Has anyone solved this problem? >> >> Thanks, >> Bob Christensen =93 N83RC >> >> >> >> > ========== > ======================== =========== > ========== > ======================== =========== >> ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv8-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV8-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv8-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv8-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.