Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:40 AM - High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A (Robin Marks)
2. 12:24 PM - Re: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A (George, Neal Capt 505 TRS/DOJ)
3. 12:40 PM - Re: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A (Vince Himsl)
4. 12:51 PM - Re: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A (Michael Kraus)
5. 01:06 PM - Re: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A (Carl Froehlich)
6. 03:00 PM - Re: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A (Alan Searle)
7. 04:02 PM - Re: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A (Robin Marks)
Message 1
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| Subject: | High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel Injector
issue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape everywhere
but Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder Head Temps.
We are running:
=B7 IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
=B7 James Cowl
=B7 Metal Plenum (home built)
=B7 New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
=B7 Custom oil cooler plenum
Photo below.
The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OAT=92s are in the low
80=92s running about 23/2300, 3,000=92. The CHT=92s are being driven up by
the
high OAT=92s to mid 390=92s.
The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4=94 inlet with a smooth ramp down to the
oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A but w
e
have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the James Cowl) o
n
our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet rings are too
small to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went with the James
cowl AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying 6/7/8/9=92s with
James cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for these models.
We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler for a
Niagara unit but I don=92t see how we are going to find 25 degrees with tha
t
swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to th
e
rear baffle area but again I don=92t see getting 25 degrees from that.
The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts woul
d
be appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issue
s
RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum ' Significant Temp
Issues
RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum ' Signific
ant
Temp Issues
[image: Oil cooler inlet plenum 001.jpg]
Message 2
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| Subject: | High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
Robin -
I hate to point to the obvious, but:
All baffle joints, seams, edges, holes, penetrations sealed?
Vernatherm working properly?
No blockage in oil cooler or lines?
No air trapped in the oil cooler high corners?
neal
Message 3
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| Subject: | High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
A couple of simple checks:
1. Your engine may be equipped with an oil cooler bypass valve (forgot
exact terminology) that may be faulty. If it is, the flow of oil to the
cooler would be greatly reduced. It should open at I believe 185F. My
AeroSport 180 has one.
2. If these readings are erratic at all you may have forgot to run a
ground strap from the engine to the airframe.
Vince H.
WA/ID USA
N8432 80hrs
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 11:38 AM
Subject: RV8-List: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A
After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel Injector
issue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape everywhere
but Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder Head Temps.
We are running:
. IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
. James Cowl
. Metal Plenum (home built)
. New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
. Custom oil cooler plenum
Photo below.
The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OAT's are in the low
80's running about 23/2300, 3,000'. The CHT's are being driven up by the
high OAT's to mid 390's.
The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4" inlet with a smooth ramp down to the
oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A but we
have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the James Cowl) on
our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet rings are too
small to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went with the James
cowl AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying 6/7/8/9's with
James cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for these models.
We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler for a
Niagara unit but I don't see how we are going to find 25 degrees with that
swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to the
rear baffle area but again I don't see getting 25 degrees from that.
The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts would
be appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum - Significant Temp
Issues
RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum - Significant
Temp Issues
Oil cooler inlet plenum 001.jpg
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
Not sure this will solve the issue, but it might help..
http://www.rvtraining.com/html/atp/html/engine__parts.html
In our first RV-10, we had high oil temps. We went with this cooler and add
ed extra louvers (increased the exit area) and dropped about 20 degrees....
Let us know what you find!
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 3, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Robin Marks <robin@PaintTheWeb.com> wrote:
> After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel Injector i
ssue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape everywhere bu
t Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder Head Temps.
>
>
>
> We are running:
>
>
>
> =C2=B7 IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
>
> =C2=B7 James Cowl
>
> =C2=B7 Metal Plenum (home built)
>
> =C2=B7 New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
>
> =C2=B7 Custom oil cooler plenum
>
>
>
> Photo below.
>
>
>
> The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OAT=99s are in t
he low 80=99s running about 23/2300, 3,000=99. The CHT=99s
are being driven up by the high OAT=99s to mid 390=99s.
>
> The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4=9D inlet with a smooth ramp down to
the oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
>
> While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A but w
e have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the James Cowl) o
n our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet rings are too sm
all to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went with the James cowl
AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying 6/7/8/9=99s with J
ames cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for these models.
>
> We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler for a
Niagara unit but I don=99t see how we are going to find 25 degrees wi
th that swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
>
> It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to t
he rear baffle area but again I don=99t see getting 25 degrees from th
at.
>
> The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts wou
ld be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Robin Marks
>
> RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issu
es
>
> RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
>
> RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum =93 Significa
nt Temp Issues
>
> RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum =93 S
ignificant Temp Issues
>
>
>
> <image001.jpg>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
A couple of thoughts:
1. I assume you have a 200+HP engine with perhaps high compression
pistons. You are starting out with a oil cooling challenge as (my
understanding) oil has higher cooling load on angle head engines as compared
with heat removed via air passing around the cylinders.
2. I notice you don't have ceramic coating on your exhaust pipes. This
helps move heat out of the cowl.
3. While the size of the air hose feed to the cooler is a factor, the
differential pressure across the oil cooler still tends to drive the actual
air flow. Assuming you make no changes to increase the plenum pressure or
reduce the aft lower cowl pressure, then you may consider moving the cooler
to the lowest area possible and angling the air outflow more toward the exit
ramp (which is smaller on the 8a than the 8). On my 8A I have the cooler
mounted on the firewall a little lower than what you have, airflow path is
vertical (has a straight shot to the exit ramp).
4. The cooler itself has a lot to do with the how much differential
pressure is needed to get a certain amount of air flow. Larger air passages
allow more airflow but less oil cooling surface area, and vice versa. One
model may work better than another in a particular plane. If you have
opportunity to swap in a different oil cooler as a test, you may get some
useful data.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A, 650 hrs, standard cowl and the old, small Positech cooler with fair
results (temps always below 220).
RV-10, fuselage prep for paint, James cowl with big inlet rings, larger cowl
exhaust cross section area, changed oil cooler and oil cooler mount, and
shielding to stop the heat muff from dumping hot air onto the fuel pump.
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 2:38 PM
Subject: RV8-List: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A
After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel Injector
issue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape everywhere
but Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder Head Temps.
We are running:
. IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
. James Cowl
. Metal Plenum (home built)
. New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
. Custom oil cooler plenum
Photo below.
The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OAT's are in the low
80's running about 23/2300, 3,000'. The CHT's are being driven up by the
high OAT's to mid 390's.
The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4" inlet with a smooth ramp down to the
oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A but we
have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the James Cowl) on
our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet rings are too
small to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went with the James
cowl AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying 6/7/8/9's with
James cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for these models.
We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler for a
Niagara unit but I don't see how we are going to find 25 degrees with that
swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer to the
rear baffle area but again I don't see getting 25 degrees from that.
The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts would
be appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp Issues
RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum - Significant Temp
Issues
RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum - Significant
Temp Issues
Oil cooler inlet plenum 001.jpg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
Robin,
I had the same trouble with my 8, went to extremes to check it out. The
temp sensor was ok as far as I could check, changed oil coolers from
baffle mounted to firewall with larger cooler to no avail. (etc. etc).
You do not say what your instrumentation is. Mine is the Dynon D10 and
if you have a Dynon and have had it for a while, it may need the latest
software update. The earlier software had an incorrect algorithm for a
particulate sensor. I do not have time today to getup the books for
details but you can find it all on Dynon's blog.
Cheers ..... Alan Searle .... RV8 1 80 hours.
On 04/06/2011, at 4:37 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
> After 20+ hours of flying in which time we were resolving a Fuel
Injector issue and a few avionics/electrical issues we are in good shape
everywhere but Oil Temperatures which are also driving up our Cylinder
Head Temps.
>
> We are running:
>
> =B7 IO-360 200 Hp standard compression
> =B7 James Cowl
> =B7 Metal Plenum (home built)
> =B7 New RV-10 size oil cooler (designed for 260 Hp)
> =B7 Custom oil cooler plenum
>
> Photo below.
>
> The issue is we are seeing oil temps up to 225 when OAT=92s are in the
low 80=92s running about 23/2300, 3,000=92. The CHT=92s are being driven
up by the high OAT=92s to mid 390=92s.
> The oil cooler plenum is a BIG 4=94 inlet with a smooth ramp down to
the oversized (260 Hp) oil cooler.
> While we have not been trying to resolve this for very long on the 8A
but we have a great deal of experience with oil temp issues (and the
James Cowl) on our RV-10. The long & short of the -10 issue is the inlet
rings are too small to properly cool the CHT/Oil. The only reason I went
with the James cowl AGAIN on the 8A was the MUCH larger fleet of flying
6/7/8/9=92s with James cowls & few reports of cowl design issues for
these models.
> We have toyed with the idea of swapping out this oversized oil cooler
for a Niagara unit but I don=92t see how we are going to find 25 degrees
with that swap as this is already an oversized cooler to begin with.
> It would be pretty tight but doable to relocate the oil cooler closer
to the rear baffle area but again I don=92t see getting 25 degrees from
that.
> The temp issues are the only remaining issues to resolve. Any thoughts
would be appreciated.
>
> Robin Marks
> RV-4 Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp
Issues
> RV-6A Sold Standard Vans Cowl - No Temp
Issues
> RV-10 225 Hours James Cowl & Plenum ' Significant
Temp Issues
> RV-4 25 Hours James Cowl & Metal Plenum '
Significant Temp Issues
>
> <image001.jpg>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A |
Thanks for all the replies so far.
To recap:
=B7 Seams, joints, edges are sealed well.
=B7 Vernatherm has been tested & working properly
=B7 Double checked the oil lines for blockage etc... No issues.
=B7 We drained the oil and filled again at oil change. Because the o
il
cooler is not inverted it is easy to load up with oil. We doubt there is ai
r
trapped in the cooler.
=B7 No EMS issues and no grounding issues as all readings are stable
and believable.
=B7 System is Dual Garmin G3X EFIS/EMS
=B7 Mag timing is dead nuts on. Other side is P-Mag (that runs amazi
ng
on P-Mag only)
=B7 RE: the 2006 Oil Cooler I can attest to the quality of these
coolers as I have the 2008 on my -10. It=92s just a brute force way of solv
ing
this problem. I really doubt I can get 25 degrees out of the 2006.
=B7 Re: ceramic coating on the exhaust. Never again=85 I have the
beautiful Forsling Exhaust with ceramic coating on my -10 but the one LARGE
drawback is I can=92t get any Cabin Heat out of the exhaust which is amazin
g
if you ask most -10 owners. Half heat can cook a small turkey.
Dave/Mike=92s suggestion of increasing the outlet area and/or louvers may b
e a
good way to go. That provided the most profound decrease in oil temps for
our -10.
Thanks,
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George, Neal Capt 505
TRS/DOJ
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV8-List: High Oil Temp Issues - RV-8A
Neal.George@hurlburt.af.mil>
Robin -
I hate to point to the obvious, but:
All baffle joints, seams, edges, holes, penetrations sealed?
Vernatherm working properly?
No blockage in oil cooler or lines?
No air trapped in the oil cooler high corners?
neal
-----
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