---------------------------------------------------------- RV8-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/13/11: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:17 AM - RV-8 Rudder trim (Jay McIntyre) 2. 11:50 AM - Re: RV-8 Rudder trim (Matt Dralle) 3. 12:33 PM - Re: RV-8 Rudder trim (carl.froehlich@verizon.net) 4. 04:11 PM - Re: RV-8 Rudder trim (Heath Cherneski) 5. 06:00 PM - Re: RV-8 Rudder trim (Robin Marks) 6. 08:01 PM - Re: RV-8 Rudder trim (Dan Bergeron) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:32 AM PST US Subject: RV8-List: RV-8 Rudder trim From: Jay McIntyre Hi all... I am looking after an RV-8 for a customer. He is in the process of buying the Trio auto pilot gear and was wondering if there is anything out that RV builders have used for rudder trim as opposed to a fixed ground adjustable tab or adjustable spring bias on the rudder pedal. i.e. something in the way of a servo.... In his own words... "as a 747 pilot I am too lazy to keep my feet on the pedals all the time..." Regards, Jay New Zealand ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:04 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Re: RV8-List: RV-8 Rudder trim At 11:14 AM 12/13/2011 Tuesday, you wrote: >Hi all... >I am looking after an RV-8 for a customer. He is in the process of buying the Trio auto pilot gear and was wondering if there is anything out that RV builders have used for rudder trim as opposed to a fixed ground adjustable tab or adjustable spring bias on the rudder pedal. > >i.e. something in the way of a servo.... >In his own words... "as a 747 pilot I am too lazy to keep my feet on the pedals all the time..." > >Regards, Jay >New Zealand I flew my IO-390 210hp CS RV-8 for 170 hours last year. Rudder trim is definitely *not* necessary. At 3000+fpm climb rate, the amount of time you're running at full power is so short by the time you diddled with the rudder trim, you'd have missed your target altitude. Lots of elevator trim *is* needed however, particularly solo. Matt's $.02 - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 26+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:56 PM PST US From: "carl.froehlich@verizon.net" Subject: Re: RV8-List: RV-8 Rudder trim RnVsbHkgYWdyZWUuICBJdCB0b29rIG1lIGEgZnVsbCB5ZWFyIHRvIHN0b3AgcHV0dGluZyBpbiB0 b28gbXVjaCBydWRkZXIuICBPdGhlciB0aGFuIHRha2VvZmYsIGxhbmRpbmcsIHNsb3cgZmxpZ2h0 IGFuZCBhZXJvYmF0aWNzLCB0aGUgcnVkZGVyIGdldHMgbGl0dGxlIHVzZS4KCkNhcmwKClNlbnQg ZnJvbSBteSBwaG9uZS7CoCBQbGVhc2UgcmVhZCBwYXNzIHRoZSB0eXBvcy4KCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2lu YWwgbWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tCkZyb206IE1hdHQgRHJhbGxlIDxkcmFsbGVAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4K VG86IHJ2OC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20KU2VudDogVHVlLCBEZWMgMTMsIDIwMTEgMTk6NDM6 NTEgR01UKzAwOjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBSVjgtTGlzdDogUlYtOCBSdWRkZXIgdHJpbQoKLS0+ IFJWOC1MaXN0IG1lc3NhZ2UgcG9zdGVkIGJ5OiBNYXR0IERyYWxsZSA8ZHJhbGxlQG1hdHJvbmlj 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PQoKCg= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV8-List: RV-8 Rudder trim From: Heath Cherneski The rv series has excellent directional stability and appropriate rudder for ces even at high speed. With these qualities, rudder trim, even a spring bi as system is added weight with not much benefit. My 8 flew half a ball out a t cruise power. I fabricated a trim tab that is right now "200 mph" taped t o the rudder and provides perfectly balanced flight at cruise power settings . Weight, several ounces. Very simple. Took one adjustment and test flight . The pedal you have to add during climb out and descent is very small and b arely noticeable. I have a two axis auto pilot that I routinely use for cli mb out and descent completely hands free. These airplanes have amazing flyi ng qualities and that, I believe, is due in part to a commitment to avoid co mplex solutions when a simple one will do. All that to say that pedal input s required to maintain balanced flight even while maneuvering are minimal an d the addition of even a simple adjustable rudder trim system is added weigh t, complexity and expense that is largely wasted in my opinion. Heath N818HC Sent from my iPad On Dec 13, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Jay McIntyre wrote: > Hi all... > I am looking after an RV-8 for a customer. He is in the process of buying t he Trio auto pilot gear and was wondering if there is anything out that RV b uilders have used for rudder trim as opposed to a fixed ground adjustable ta b or adjustable spring bias on the rudder pedal. > > i.e. something in the way of a servo.... > In his own words... "as a 747 pilot I am too lazy to keep my feet on the p edals all the time..." > > Regards, Jay > New Zealand > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:18 PM PST US From: Robin Marks Subject: Re: RV8-List: RV-8 Rudder trim Jay, I have had 4 RV's and have come to really my electric rudder trim. My first two had a bendable tab and the last two we installed an electric trim tab built into the rudder. I think some form of electric rudder trim is mandato ry on the RV-10. because it was relatively easy to do we added a much impro ved version to my 8A after the rudder was built. Like others have stated th e 8 does not fly that much out of trim but I prefer my cross country flying to be completely coordinated. Below is a link to the trim we placed in the -10. We improved the design of the 8A substantially by eliminating the external arm and mechanism altoget her. Same with the trim location indicator. We eliminated that since the ba ll is your trim indicator. If you send me a reminder this weekend I will po st images of the 8A rudder trim when I am back home. I am currently flying the -10 east to west coast across the US and I am really glad I have the tr im. :-) Robin http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv%2D10/RudderTrim.aspx Sent from my iPad2. On Dec 13, 2011, at 6:17 PM, "Heath Cherneski" > wrote: The rv series has excellent directional stability and appropriate rudder fo rces even at high speed. With these qualities, rudder trim, even a spring bias system is added weight with not much benefit. My 8 flew half a ball o ut at cruise power. I fabricated a trim tab that is right now "200 mph" ta ped to the rudder and provides perfectly balanced flight at cruise power se ttings. Weight, several ounces. Very simple. Took one adjustment and test flight. The pedal you have to add during climb out and descent is very sm all and barely noticeable. I have a two axis auto pilot that I routinely u se for climb out and descent completely hands free. These airplanes have a mazing flying qualities and that, I believe, is due in part to a commitment to avoid complex solutions when a simple one will do. All that to say tha t pedal inputs required to maintain balanced flight even while maneuvering are minimal and the addition of even a simple adjustable rudder trim system is added weight, complexity and expense that is largely wasted in my opini on. Heath N818HC Sent from my iPad On Dec 13, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Jay McIntyre <cjav iator@gmail.com> wrote: Hi all... I am looking after an RV-8 for a customer. He is in the process of buying t he Trio auto pilot gear and was wondering if there is anything out that RV builders have used for rudder trim as opposed to a fixed ground adjustable tab or adjustable spring bias on the rudder pedal. i.e. something in the way of a servo.... In his own words... "as a 747 pilot I am too lazy to keep my feet on the pe dals all the time..." Regards, Jay New Zealand ========= http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n ========= ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV8-List ========= ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n ========= dersbooks.com com m/contribution ics.com/Navigator?RV8-List m/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV8-List: RV-8 Rudder trim From: Dan Bergeron Jay: Avery Tools sells a great little device called a "rudder trim tab," part # 9883, sells for $13.50 US in the 2009 catalogue - bond it to the appropriate side of the trailing edge of the rudder - I'll bet your trim problem goes away - I drove myself nearly crazy trying to eliminate a heavy left wing on my RV-7A - someone told me about Avery's "rudder trim tab" - I bonded it to the underside, outboard, trailing edge of the right aileron - problem solved - after 280 hours of flight time it's still there and still working - and no one has ever noticed it - most of my flying is x/c and, other than landings, takeoffs and the occasional slow speed and stall practice - I never touch the rudder pedals - elevator trim is another story however - I installed electric elevator trim during construction - works great and well worth it - also have electric aileron trim - which I've used only rarely - when I have a fuel imbalance in the tip tanks - Dan Bergeron RV-7A - N307TB 280 hours since first flight on 8/6/11 On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 8:57 PM, Robin Marks wrote: > Jay, > I have had 4 RV's and have come to really my electric rudder trim. My > first two had a bendable tab and the last two we installed an electric trim > tab built into the rudder. I think some form of electric rudder trim is > mandatory on the RV-10. because it was relatively easy to do we added a > much improved version to my 8A after the rudder was built. Like others have > stated the 8 does not fly that much out of trim but I prefer my cross > country flying to be completely coordinated. > Below is a link to the trim we placed in the -10. We improved the design > of the 8A substantially by eliminating the external arm and mechanism > altogether. Same with the trim location indicator. We eliminated that since > the ball is your trim indicator. If you send me a reminder this weekend I > will post images of the 8A rudder trim when I am back home. I am currently > flying the -10 east to west coast across the US and I am really glad I have > the trim. :-) > > Robin > > http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv%2D10/RudderTrim.aspx > > Sent from my iPad2. > > On Dec 13, 2011, at 6:17 PM, "Heath Cherneski" > wrote: > > The rv series has excellent directional stability and appropriate > rudder forces even at high speed. With these qualities, rudder trim, even > a spring bias system is added weight with not much benefit. My 8 flew half > a ball out at cruise power. I fabricated a trim tab that is right now "200 > mph" taped to the rudder and provides perfectly balanced flight at cruise > power settings. Weight, several ounces. Very simple. Took one adjustment > and test flight. The pedal you have to add during climb out and descent is > very small and barely noticeable. I have a two axis auto pilot that I > routinely use for climb out and descent completely hands free. These > airplanes have amazing flying qualities and that, I believe, is due in part > to a commitment to avoid complex solutions when a simple one will do. All > that to say that pedal inputs required to maintain balanced flight even > while maneuvering are minimal and the addition of even a simple adjustable > rudder trim system is added weight, complexity and expense that is largely > wasted in my opinion. > Heath > N818HC > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 13, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Jay McIntyre < > cjaviator@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi all... > I am looking after an RV-8 for a customer. He is in the process of buying > the Trio auto pilot gear and was wondering if there is anything out that RV > builders have used for rudder trim as opposed to a fixed ground > adjustable tab or adjustable spring bias on the rudder pedal. > > i.e. something in the way of a servo.... > In his own words... "as a 747 pilot I am too lazy to keep my feet on the > pedals all the time..." > > Regards, Jay > New Zealand > > * > > ========= > http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > > www.buildersbooks.com > "http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========= > ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List > ==========ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > ==========http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========= > * > > * > > f="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > ">www.buildersbooks.com > ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > f="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List > //forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > f="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv8-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV8-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv8-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv8-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.