---------------------------------------------------------- RV8-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/18/15: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:02 AM - Re: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Charlie England) 2. 05:09 AM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Charlie England) 3. 05:25 AM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Ed Gilroy) 4. 06:08 AM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (John Myers) 5. 06:09 AM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Joe Bryant) 6. 06:09 AM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Joe Bryant) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV8-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases From: Charlie England I see no reason for an apology, and I'm glad you posted your experience. I've heard the exact same story (outrageous flat-rate fees for *any* repair, even a 'checkout') about Garmin for many years from many different owners. I've even experienced it myself, with Garmin wanting around $150 to replace the $4 backup battery in my GPS III Pilot portable. When I cornered a Garmin rep about it at a major flyin, he offered to give me a 'deal' at $70 if I sent it to his attention after the flyin. And the portable isn't even a 'certified' device. BTW, I'd like to thank Matt for keeping these lists up and running and avoiding the ugliness of censorship, which is rampant on the VAF forum. For those who don't follow it closely, Matt's recent thread on the Garmin service subject didn't last a day before it was deleted (can't have one of your advertisers called out in public, can you.....). I sometimes go for much longer than I should without donating to Matt, and incidents like that remind me why I should donate every year. Charlie On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics > shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a > single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told > that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same > avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are > not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite > lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my > frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult. > I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully > progresses. > > Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for > the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00. > > Matt > > > At 11:11 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote: > >In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the > lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, > I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the > King KX-125 on the RV-6. > > > >I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told > the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My > only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and > the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two > $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior. > > > >I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business > with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable. > > > > > >- > >Matt Dralle > > > > - > Matt Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying! > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode! > > Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream! > Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore > Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too! > For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV8-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases From: Charlie England It sounds exactly right to me, based on my personal experience, and stories I've heard from others for over a decade. They might offer a bit more of a 'deal' if you can find the right button (person) to push, but the opening line is always outrageous flat rate fees for anything. I've even experienced it myself, with Garmin wanting around $150 to replace the $4 backup battery in my GPS III Pilot portable. When I cornered a Garmin rep about it at a major flyin, he offered to give me a 'deal' at $70 if I sent it to his attention after the flyin. And the portable isn't even a 'certified' device. The vast majority of homebuilders (and even cert a/c owners) don't even know that there are buttons available to push, and pay the outrageous fees because they effectively have no other choice. BTW, I'd like to thank Matt for keeping these lists up and running and avoiding the ugliness of censorship, which is rampant on the VAF forum. For those who don't follow it closely, Matt's recent thread on the Garmin service subject didn't last a day before it was deleted (can't have one of your advertisers called out in public, can you.....). I sometimes go for much longer than I should without donating to Matt, and incidents like that remind me why I should donate every year. Charlie On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Stein Bruch wrote: > > This doesn't sound right. Sounds to me like someone just didn't want to > deal > with you (and it likely wasn't Garmin in this case). I don't know what or > how you handled yourself, but sometimes you'll get more with honey than > with > vinegar - or perhaps the person you spoke with perhaps was slightly > mis-informed. > > To be blunt, the lenses should be readily available (at least they were > last > time we got some). I'm sorry they aren't a $4 piece of plexi (there is some > fancy schmancy coatings on them and such), but the GTX lens is around $26 > and I think the SL lens around $65. > > My recommendation would be to calm down a bit, sit back and take a breath > before indicting Garmin in their entirety based on a conversation with one > person. > > Not defending anyone or indicting or flaming anyone, but your experience > just sounds like we don't have the "whole story".....might I humbly suggest > that before blasting this to every list you manage that you perhaps speak > to > someone else first (or maybe even Garmin directly)? > > Cheers, > Stein > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 1:12 PM > To: rv8-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV8-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases > > > In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens > of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll > just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King > KX-125 on the RV-6. > > I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told > the > following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only > option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the > MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 > pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior. > > I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business > with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable. > > > - > Matt Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying! > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode! > > Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream! > Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore > Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too! > For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV8-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases From: Ed Gilroy Charlie: I have to agree, I long ago deserted VAF due to his "sanitation" of the boards. Garmin provides a fine product at a very steep price. This kind of price segmentation makes room for the likes of Dynon and others. I sold my Garmin products on eBay awhile back and moved on, I could not tolerate the monthly charges let alone the fixed price factory repair. On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Charlie England wrote: > It sounds exactly right to me, based on my personal experience, and > stories I've heard from others for over a decade. They might offer a bit > more of a 'deal' if you can find the right button (person) to push, but the > opening line is always outrageous flat rate fees for anything. > > I've even experienced it myself, with Garmin wanting around $150 to > replace the $4 backup battery in my GPS III Pilot portable. When I cornered > a Garmin rep about it at a major flyin, he offered to give me a 'deal' at > $70 if I sent it to his attention after the flyin. And the portable isn't > even a 'certified' device. > > The vast majority of homebuilders (and even cert a/c owners) don't even > know that there are buttons available to push, and pay the outrageous fees > because they effectively have no other choice. > > BTW, I'd like to thank Matt for keeping these lists up and running and > avoiding the ugliness of censorship, which is rampant on the VAF forum. For > those who don't follow it closely, Matt's recent thread on the Garmin > service subject didn't last a day before it was deleted (can't have one of > your advertisers called out in public, can you.....). I sometimes go for > much longer than I should without donating to Matt, and incidents like that > remind me why I should donate every year. > > Charlie > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Stein Bruch wrote: > >> >> This doesn't sound right. Sounds to me like someone just didn't want to >> deal >> with you (and it likely wasn't Garmin in this case). I don't know what or >> how you handled yourself, but sometimes you'll get more with honey than >> with >> vinegar - or perhaps the person you spoke with perhaps was slightly >> mis-informed. >> >> To be blunt, the lenses should be readily available (at least they were >> last >> time we got some). I'm sorry they aren't a $4 piece of plexi (there is >> some >> fancy schmancy coatings on them and such), but the GTX lens is around $26 >> and I think the SL lens around $65. >> >> My recommendation would be to calm down a bit, sit back and take a breath >> before indicting Garmin in their entirety based on a conversation with one >> person. >> >> Not defending anyone or indicting or flaming anyone, but your experience >> just sounds like we don't have the "whole story".....might I humbly >> suggest >> that before blasting this to every list you manage that you perhaps speak >> to >> someone else first (or maybe even Garmin directly)? >> >> Cheers, >> Stein >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle >> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 1:12 PM >> To: rv8-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV8-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases >> >> >> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens >> of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, >> I'll >> just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King >> KX-125 on the RV-6. >> >> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told >> the >> following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My >> only >> option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the >> MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 >> pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior. >> >> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business >> with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable. >> >> >> >> - >> Matt Dralle >> >> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" >> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log >> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel >> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying! >> >> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" >> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log >> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode! >> >> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream! >> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore >> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too! >> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV8-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases From: John Myers Right on Charlie, you nailed it in every way. The censorship on VAF sucks and Garmin needs to give up market share for the ir strategy. Hopefully, the tactics will come back to haunt them like it di d for the avionics supplier Narco. Thank goodness there are some good competitive suppliers for the Experimenta l world like Dynon, AFS, GRT, ... I appreciate them more every time I hear a bout incidents where suppliers don't support their own customers in a cost e ffective way, such as we see with Garmin. I'm thinking this would probably get deleted at VAF. John On Jun 18, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Charlie England wrote: It sounds exactly right to me, based on my personal experience, and stories I 've heard from others for over a decade. They might offer a bit more of a 'd eal' if you can find the right button (person) to push, but the opening line is always outrageous flat rate fees for anything. I've even experienced it myself, with Garmin wanting around $150 to replace t he $4 backup battery in my GPS III Pilot portable. When I cornered a Garmin r ep about it at a major flyin, he offered to give me a 'deal' at $70 if I sen t it to his attention after the flyin. And the portable isn't even a 'certif ied' device. The vast majority of homebuilders (and even cert a/c owners) don't even know that there are buttons available to push, and pay the outrageous fees becau se they effectively have no other choice. BTW, I'd like to thank Matt for keeping these lists up and running and avoid ing the ugliness of censorship, which is rampant on the VAF forum. For those who don't follow it closely, Matt's recent thread on the Garmin service sub ject didn't last a day before it was deleted (can't have one of your adverti sers called out in public, can you.....). I sometimes go for much longer tha n I should without donating to Matt, and incidents like that remind me why I should donate every year. Charlie > On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Stein Bruch wrote: > > This doesn't sound right. Sounds to me like someone just didn't want to de al > with you (and it likely wasn't Garmin in this case). I don't know what or > how you handled yourself, but sometimes you'll get more with honey than wi th > vinegar - or perhaps the person you spoke with perhaps was slightly > mis-informed. > > To be blunt, the lenses should be readily available (at least they were la st > time we got some). I'm sorry they aren't a $4 piece of plexi (there is som e > fancy schmancy coatings on them and such), but the GTX lens is around $26 > and I think the SL lens around $65. > > My recommendation would be to calm down a bit, sit back and take a breath > before indicting Garmin in their entirety based on a conversation with one > person. > > Not defending anyone or indicting or flaming anyone, but your experience > just sounds like we don't have the "whole story".....might I humbly sugges t > that before blasting this to every list you manage that you perhaps speak t o > someone else first (or maybe even Garmin directly)? > > Cheers, > Stein > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 1:12 PM > To: rv8-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV8-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases > > > In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens > of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'l l > just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King > KX-125 on the RV-6. > > I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told t he > following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My onl y > option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the > MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 > pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior. > > I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business > with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable. > > > > - > Matt Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying! > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode! > > Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream! > Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore > Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too! > For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com > > > > > > > ========== > List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?RV8-List > ========== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:30 AM PST US From: Joe Bryant Subject: Re: RV8-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:34 AM PST US From: Joe Bryant Subject: Re: RV8-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. 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