---------------------------------------------------------- RV8-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/31/16: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:32 AM - Re: James Cowl (Michael Lazarowicz) 2. 07:24 AM - Re: James Cowl (Carl Froehlich) 3. 09:20 AM - Re: James Cowl (Bill Settle) 4. 09:21 AM - Re: James Cowl (Michael Lazarowicz) 5. 12:38 PM - Re: James Cowl (Carl Froehlich) 6. 01:28 PM - Re: James Cowl (Michael Lazarowicz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:09 AM PST US From: Michael Lazarowicz Subject: Re: RV8-List: James Cowl Hi Carl I am in the last stages of my RV8 build. I deleted the stock Vans cowl and it was a big mistake. I am a big fan of Sam James, but with the RV 8 there are two problems. 1. you wll have to use a prop extension with his 8 cowl. Sam does not currently make a short version for the 8 like he does for the 7. 2. The Cowl is a lot more work and it's advantages are not that great . it does look cool but in the end after surveying many I found the standard cowl is pretty good. 3. EVERY mod you make to the Vans kit will increase your building time exponentially. John Thocker of Red Line air shows has built at least 3 RV 8 s and helped with many more. His standard advice is build it like Van said to and you will be fine. Finally if you delete it from the Kit it will cost you nearly double with shipping if you change your mind later. I have a close friend in the EZ world that is a world record holder. He actually deigned the wheel pants Sam uses. My friend did encourage me to look at SAMs cowl, but in the end, for me at least, it was not worth it. If you build it light you will get 99% of the speed you need. Hope this helps. On Tuesday, August 30, 2016, Carl Froehlich wrote: > I=99m just about ready to drop the order to Van=99s for a slo w build RV-8 > kit. I=99m already working the empennage so I figure with the eigh t week > time line for shipment I need to move forward. > > > I=99m looking to use a James Cowl. As such I need to delete the st andard > Van=99s cowl in my order. So =93 looking for recommendations of the RV-8 James > Cowl group =93 yes or no? > > > I=99ll be using a stock IO-360 from Van=99s =93 the 180 hp version. > > > Thanks, > > Carl > > RV-8A, sold > > RV-10, sale pending (and it breaks my heart) > > RV-8, tail kit > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:27 AM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV8-List: James Cowl Michael, Thanks for the feed. I built the RV-10 with the James Cowl and I=99m happy with the performance. I configured the plane for high altitude long range cruise and the James Cowl has contributed to the results. I note Will James stop offering the RV-10 cowl as a few builders had issues. What worries me more than the extra work is the required 2.5=9D prop extension. I understand why Will James does this and I agree with the concept, but the prop hanging out there worried me about engine crank bearing load. I talked to BPE about this and they told me it is not a problem. So my root question remains. I understand the downside of the cowl but I would like a feed from those running one on how they see it impacting performance. Carl From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Lazarowicz Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: RV8-List: James Cowl Hi Carl I am in the last stages of my RV8 build. I deleted the stock Vans cowl and it was a big mistake. I am a big fan of Sam James, but with the RV 8 there are two problems. 1. you wll have to use a prop extension with his 8 cowl. Sam does not currently make a short version for the 8 like he does for the 7. 2. The Cowl is a lot more work and it's advantages are not that great . it does look cool but in the end after surveying many I found the standard cowl is pretty good. 3. EVERY mod you make to the Vans kit will increase your building time exponentially. John Thocker of Red Line air shows has built at least 3 RV 8 s and helped with many more. His standard advice is build it like Van said to and you will be fine. Finally if you delete it from the Kit it will cost you nearly double with shipping if you change your mind later. I have a close friend in the EZ world that is a world record holder. He actually deigned the wheel pants Sam uses. My friend did encourage me to look at SAMs cowl, but in the end, for me at least, it was not worth it. If you build it light you will get 99% of the speed you need. Hope this helps. On Tuesday, August 30, 2016, Carl Froehlich wrote: I=99m just about ready to drop the order to Van=99s for a slow build RV-8 kit. I=99m already working the empennage so I figure with the eight week time line for shipment I need to move forward. I=99m looking to use a James Cowl. As such I need to delete the standard Van=99s cowl in my order. So =93 looking for recommendations of the RV-8 James Cowl group =93 yes or no? I=99ll be using a stock IO-360 from Van=99s =93 the 180 hp version. Thanks, Carl RV-8A, sold RV-10, sale pending (and it breaks my heart) RV-8, tail kit ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:45 AM PST US From: Bill Settle Subject: Re: RV8-List: James Cowl Hi Guys, I don't want to hijack this thread, but I am curious whether the Show Plane s cowl would be any different? I am not as far along as I should be on my -8 build built I am planning to use the stock Van's cowl although I have always liked the look of the James cowl also. =C2-I have a heard a couple of other times about the James co wl being more work and I was wondering if anyone knew if the Show Planes co wl was any different? =C2- Thanks,Bill=C2- "Experience and common sense cannot be replaced with policy and procedures. " =C2- - R.L. Nuckolls III From: Michael Lazarowicz To: "rv8-list@matronics.com" Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:28 AM Subject: Re: RV8-List: James Cowl Hi Carl I am in the last stages of my RV8 build.=C2- I deleted the stock Vans cow l and it was a big mistake.=C2- I am a big fan of Sam James, but with the RV 8 there are two problems. 1.=C2-you wll have to use a prop extension with his 8 cowl.=C2- Sam doe s not currently make a short version for the 8 like he does for the 7. 2. The Cowl is a lot more work and it's advantages are not that great . =C2 -it does look cool but in the end after surveying many I found the standa rd cowl is pretty good. 3.=C2- EVERY mod you make to the Vans kit will increase your building tim e exponentially.John Thocker of Red Line air shows has built at least 3 RV 8 s and helped with many more.=C2- His standard advice is build it like V an said to and you will be fine. Finally if you delete it from the Kit it will cost you nearly double with s hipping if you change your mind later.=C2-I have a close friend in the EZ world that is a world record holder.=C2- He actually deigned the wheel p ants Sam uses.=C2- My friend did encourage me to look at SAMs cowl, but i n the end, for me at least, it was not worth it. If you build it light you will get 99% of the speed you need. Hope this helps. On Tuesday, August 30, 2016, Carl Froehlich wr ote: I=99m just about ready to drop the order to Van=99s for a slow build RV-8 kit.=C2- I=99m already working the empennage so I figure with the eight week time line for shipment I need to move forward.=C2-I =99m looking to use a James Cowl.=C2- As such I need to delete the standard Van=99s cowl in my order.=C2- So =93 looking for rec ommendations of the RV-8 James Cowl group =93 yes or no?=C2-I =99ll be using a stock IO-360 from Van=99s =93 the 180 hp versi on.=C2-Thanks,CarlRV-8A, soldRV-10, sale pending (and it breaks my heart) RV-8, tail kit ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:10 AM PST US From: Michael Lazarowicz Subject: Re: RV8-List: James Cowl Hi Carl I talked with Sam himself about the prop extension. He seemed to think there is no basis for concern. I am using a whirlwind 200. I will be doing some "gentleman" aerobatics. I Sam had offered a short version of the cowl I would have used his. You are more experienced that I with the 10 you built. I do have one story for you. A few years ago I ran into a guy who had just finished his 8. It had all the mods, James cowl, grove gear, electronic ignition and more than I could mention. His son built just a straight 8 with no mods. He said the real world difference was very small and he would not bother with all the mods again , except for the Ignition. Having said all this the James cowl looks great. I have planned my RV8 to be as simple and clean as [possible. I just finished my Garmin G3X installation. IFR. I am very pleased with Garmin so far and would do that again. The 8 is tight on panel space but I managed to fit a 10" touch, 650 com and a GRT Mini as a back up. Mike On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > Michael, > > > Thanks for the feed. > > > I built the RV-10 with the James Cowl and I=99m happy with the perf ormance. > I configured the plane for high altitude long range cruise and the James > Cowl has contributed to the results. I note Will James stop offering the > RV-10 cowl as a few builders had issues. > > > What worries me more than the extra work is the required 2.5=9D pro p > extension. I understand why Will James does this and I agree with the > concept, but the prop hanging out there worried me about engine crank > bearing load. I talked to BPE about this and they told me it is not a > problem. > > > So my root question remains. I understand the downside of the cowl but I > would like a feed from those running one on how they see it impacting > performance. > > > Carl > > > *From:* owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server @ > matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Lazarowicz > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:29 AM > *To:* rv8-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV8-List: James Cowl > > > Hi Carl > > > I am in the last stages of my RV8 build. I deleted the stock Vans cowl > and it was a big mistake. I am a big fan of Sam James, but with the RV 8 > there are two problems. > > > 1. you wll have to use a prop extension with his 8 cowl. Sam does not > currently make a short version for the 8 like he does for the 7. > > > 2. The Cowl is a lot more work and it's advantages are not that great . > it does look cool but in the end after surveying many I found the standa rd > cowl is pretty good. > > > 3. EVERY mod you make to the Vans kit will increase your building time > exponentially. > > John Thocker of Red Line air shows has built at least 3 RV 8 s and helped > with many more. His standard advice is build it like Van said to and you > will be fine. > > > Finally if you delete it from the Kit it will cost you nearly double with > shipping if you change your mind later. > > > I have a close friend in the EZ world that is a world record holder. He > actually deigned the wheel pants Sam uses. My friend did encourage me to > look at SAMs cowl, but in the end, for me at least, it was not worth it. > > > If you build it light you will get 99% of the speed you need. > > > Hope this helps. > > On Tuesday, August 30, 2016, Carl Froehlich > wrote: > > I=99m just about ready to drop the order to Van=99s for a slo w build RV-8 > kit. I=99m already working the empennage so I figure with the eigh t week > time line for shipment I need to move forward. > > > I=99m looking to use a James Cowl. As such I need to delete the st andard > Van=99s cowl in my order. So =93 looking for recommendations of the RV-8 James > Cowl group =93 yes or no? > > > I=99ll be using a stock IO-360 from Van=99s =93 the 180 hp version. > > > Thanks, > > Carl > > RV-8A, sold > > RV-10, sale pending (and it breaks my heart) > > RV-8, tail kit > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:40 PM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV8-List: James Cowl Thanks Michael. All feed so far is =9Cdo what you want but it makes little difference=9D. I was hoping to confirm the cruise efficiency gain I have on my RV-10 for the RV-8, but no one has made the case. I thought about doing the James plenum with the stock Van=99s cowl =93 and all the associated surgery needed to fit the inlets. I like the plenum on the RV-10 so I=99m still considering this as a compromise. Interesting comment on the G3X. I have installed three full SkyView systems and they have been great for IFR work (using the GTN-650 for the GPS navigator) and the Dynon support is second to none. I looked at the G3X touch panels in the new demo RV-14 and figured Garmin deserves at least a look. Doing apples to apples the Garmin is ~$1-$2K more than a dual screen SkyView total system so pricing is about the same. Garmin does add the $150/month subscription cost that Dynon provides free. So it looks like both companies are marketing to the same crowd and keeping the pricing close. After consideration however I reflect back on the miserable after the sale service on my GTN-650 and will again go with Dynon SkyView. I know the G3X stuff is a different group at Garmin but they all wear the same shirt. Carl From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Lazarowicz Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 12:20 PM Subject: Re: RV8-List: James Cowl Hi Carl I talked with Sam himself about the prop extension. He seemed to think there is no basis for concern. I am using a whirlwind 200. I will be doing some "gentleman" aerobatics. I Sam had offered a short version of the cowl I would have used his. You are more experienced that I with the 10 you built. I do have one story for you. A few years ago I ran into a guy who had just finished his 8. It had all the mods, James cowl, grove gear, electronic ignition and more than I could mention. His son built just a straight 8 with no mods. He said the real world difference was very small and he would not bother with all the mods again , except for the Ignition. Having said all this the James cowl looks great. I have planned my RV8 to be as simple and clean as [possible. I just finished my Garmin G3X installation. IFR. I am very pleased with Garmin so far and would do that again. The 8 is tight on panel space but I managed to fit a 10" touch, 650 com and a GRT Mini as a back up. Mike On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote: Michael, Thanks for the feed. I built the RV-10 with the James Cowl and I=99m happy with the performance. I configured the plane for high altitude long range cruise and the James Cowl has contributed to the results. I note Will James stop offering the RV-10 cowl as a few builders had issues. What worries me more than the extra work is the required 2.5=9D prop extension. I understand why Will James does this and I agree with the concept, but the prop hanging out there worried me about engine crank bearing load. I talked to BPE about this and they told me it is not a problem. So my root question remains. I understand the downside of the cowl but I would like a feed from those running one on how they see it impacting performance. Carl From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Lazarowicz Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:29 AM Subject: Re: RV8-List: James Cowl Hi Carl I am in the last stages of my RV8 build. I deleted the stock Vans cowl and it was a big mistake. I am a big fan of Sam James, but with the RV 8 there are two problems. 1. you wll have to use a prop extension with his 8 cowl. Sam does not currently make a short version for the 8 like he does for the 7. 2. The Cowl is a lot more work and it's advantages are not that great . it does look cool but in the end after surveying many I found the standard cowl is pretty good. 3. EVERY mod you make to the Vans kit will increase your building time exponentially. John Thocker of Red Line air shows has built at least 3 RV 8 s and helped with many more. His standard advice is build it like Van said to and you will be fine. Finally if you delete it from the Kit it will cost you nearly double with shipping if you change your mind later. I have a close friend in the EZ world that is a world record holder. He actually deigned the wheel pants Sam uses. My friend did encourage me to look at SAMs cowl, but in the end, for me at least, it was not worth it. If you build it light you will get 99% of the speed you need. Hope this helps. On Tuesday, August 30, 2016, Carl Froehlich wrote: I=99m just about ready to drop the order to Van=99s for a slow build RV-8 kit. I=99m already working the empennage so I figure with the eight week time line for shipment I need to move forward. I=99m looking to use a James Cowl. As such I need to delete the standard Van=99s cowl in my order. So =93 looking for recommendations of the RV-8 James Cowl group =93 yes or no? I=99ll be using a stock IO-360 from Van=99s =93 the 180 hp version. Thanks, Carl RV-8A, sold RV-10, sale pending (and it breaks my heart) RV-8, tail kit ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:40 PM PST US From: Michael Lazarowicz Subject: Re: RV8-List: James Cowl Garmin offers a bundle software update for 150 per year for the G3X touch. To Garmin's Credit there support has been great so far. I guess its all in just what your individual tastes are. The big mover for me was the Garmin autopilot. It is about half the price of the others and the brackets to install it in the RV8 make it a breeze. I am also fond of the Garmin heated pitot tube. Its about the half or more than others and seems to be made well. I also like the Remote mounted transponder. Like I said the 8 is a tough fit. all this helps. I guess in my case you should consider the source. I have never flow my 8 yet. so my advise is only on the building side. The Last plane I flew IFR was the A330 and it has, in my opinion, one of the best flight decks in the business. On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > Thanks Michael. > > > All feed so far is =9Cdo what you want but it makes little differen ce=9D. I > was hoping to confirm the cruise efficiency gain I have on my RV-10 for t he > RV-8, but no one has made the case. > > > I thought about doing the James plenum with the stock Van=99s cowl =93 and all > the associated surgery needed to fit the inlets. I like the plenum on th e > RV-10 so I=99m still considering this as a compromise. > > > Interesting comment on the G3X. I have installed three full SkyView > systems and they have been great for IFR work (using the GTN-650 for the > GPS navigator) and the Dynon support is second to none. I looked at the > G3X touch panels in the new demo RV-14 and figured Garmin deserves at lea st > a look. Doing apples to apples the Garmin is ~$1-$2K more than a dual > screen SkyView total system so pricing is about the same. Garmin does ad d > the $150/month subscription cost that Dynon provides free. So it looks > like both companies are marketing to the same crowd and keeping the prici ng > close. After consideration however I reflect back on the miserable after > the sale service on my GTN-650 and will again go with Dynon SkyView. I > know the G3X stuff is a different group at Garmin but they all wear the > same shirt. > > > Carl > > > *From:* owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server @ > matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Lazarowicz > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2016 12:20 PM > *To:* rv8-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV8-List: James Cowl > > > Hi Carl > > I talked with Sam himself about the prop extension. He seemed to think > there is no basis for concern. I am using a whirlwind 200. I will be > doing some "gentleman" aerobatics. I Sam had offered a short version of > the cowl I would have used his. You are more experienced that I with the > 10 you built. I do have one story for you. > > A few years ago I ran into a guy who had just finished his 8. It had all > the mods, James cowl, grove gear, electronic ignition and more than I cou ld > mention. His son built just a straight 8 with no mods. He said the real > world difference was very small and he would not bother with all the mods > again , except for the Ignition. > > Having said all this the James cowl looks great. > > I have planned my RV8 to be as simple and clean as [possible. I just > finished my Garmin G3X installation. IFR. I am very pleased with Garmin > so far and would do that again. The 8 is tight on panel space but I > managed to fit a 10" touch, 650 com and a GRT Mini as a back up. > > Mike > > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Carl Froehlich < > carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wrote: > > Michael, > > > Thanks for the feed. > > > I built the RV-10 with the James Cowl and I=99m happy with the perf ormance. > I configured the plane for high altitude long range cruise and the James > Cowl has contributed to the results. I note Will James stop offering the > RV-10 cowl as a few builders had issues. > > > What worries me more than the extra work is the required 2.5=9D pro p > extension. I understand why Will James does this and I agree with the > concept, but the prop hanging out there worried me about engine crank > bearing load. I talked to BPE about this and they told me it is not a > problem. > > > So my root question remains. I understand the downside of the cowl but I > would like a feed from those running one on how they see it impacting > performance. > > > Carl > > > *From:* owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server @ > matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Lazarowicz > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:29 AM > *To:* rv8-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV8-List: James Cowl > > > Hi Carl > > > I am in the last stages of my RV8 build. I deleted the stock Vans cowl > and it was a big mistake. I am a big fan of Sam James, but with the RV 8 > there are two problems. > > > 1. you wll have to use a prop extension with his 8 cowl. Sam does not > currently make a short version for the 8 like he does for the 7. > > > 2. The Cowl is a lot more work and it's advantages are not that great . > it does look cool but in the end after surveying many I found the standa rd > cowl is pretty good. > > > 3. EVERY mod you make to the Vans kit will increase your building time > exponentially. > > John Thocker of Red Line air shows has built at least 3 RV 8 s and helped > with many more. His standard advice is build it like Van said to and you > will be fine. > > > Finally if you delete it from the Kit it will cost you nearly double with > shipping if you change your mind later. > > > I have a close friend in the EZ world that is a world record holder. He > actually deigned the wheel pants Sam uses. My friend did encourage me to > look at SAMs cowl, but in the end, for me at least, it was not worth it. > > > If you build it light you will get 99% of the speed you need. > > > Hope this helps. > > On Tuesday, August 30, 2016, Carl Froehlich > wrote: > > I=99m just about ready to drop the order to Van=99s for a slo w build RV-8 > kit. I=99m already working the empennage so I figure with the eigh t week > time line for shipment I need to move forward. > > > I=99m looking to use a James Cowl. As such I need to delete the st andard > Van=99s cowl in my order. So =93 looking for recommendations of the RV-8 James > Cowl group =93 yes or no? > > > I=99ll be using a stock IO-360 from Van=99s =93 the 180 hp version. > > > Thanks, > > Carl > > RV-8A, sold > > RV-10, sale pending (and it breaks my heart) > > RV-8, tail kit > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv8-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV8-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv8-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv8-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.