Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:02 AM - Aligning pants and fairings (Gary)
2. 11:59 AM - slider canopy questions (steve dwyer)
3. 12:22 PM - Re: slider canopy questions (Norman)
4. 01:13 PM - Re: Drain Valves (Lonnie Woodman)
5. 01:44 PM - Re: Drain Valves (Richard Tasker)
6. 02:17 PM - Re: slider canopy questions (Larry PERRYMAN)
7. 03:26 PM - Re: Drain Valves (Steve Sampson)
8. 03:28 PM - Re: slider canopy questions (Stein Bruch)
9. 04:17 PM - Re: Drain Valves (Dave Nicholson)
10. 06:19 PM - Re: Drain Valves (Gene)
11. 06:28 PM - Re: Drain Valves (Todd Houg)
12. 08:55 PM - Accidental IFR!!!! (Stein Bruch)
13. 09:23 PM - Re: Drain Valves (Richard E. Tasker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Aligning pants and fairings |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary" <rv9er@3rivers.net>
Yep, all done with that. I used a cherry-picker type engine hoist to lift the
plane. I put straps around the spar connect bolts, lifted it till the wheels
just barely touched the floor, and made sure it was level.
Drop plumb bobs from the center belly-to-firewall rivet hole and the little hole
for the purpose just ahead of the tail tiedown. Snap a chalkline on the floor.
Mark a centerline on the pants all the way around. With a nice straight
board, you can align the pants with the chalkline.
Now, here is the trick: when doing the gear fairings, clamp a straight board across
the steps. Draw a centerline on the belly. Measure from the centerline
to the front of the fairing, and the centerline to the board at the step. Put
a nail in the board at that point, and wrap a string around the fairing and
to the nail. When the trailing edge of the fairing is centered between the strings
with no weight on the gear, you are there. Using the steps instead of some
exotic fixture at the tail is much easier, and I think still plenty accurate.
Mark the gear leg and fairing well, so you don't lose your marks when you glass
the stiffener on the leg.
And DON'T cut the slots for the hose clamps at the top of the fairing! It is
a crummy way to attach them. The clamp sticks out, interferes with the brake
fitting, and makes extra messy layup work.
Instead, make a nice little wood block on each side of the stiffener at the top,
which fits against the inside of the aft part of the fairing. Then after it
is glassed to the leg, put a machine screw through the whole works, and it will
stay aligned and secure.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Karmy
To: Gary
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: cowl slot
Have you done your gear leg fairings or wheel pants yet? I am doing that now
and it sure is confusing trying to get then pointing in the right direction based
upon the plans description...
- Andy
------>
---
Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/21/02
Message 2
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| Subject: | slider canopy questions |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "steve dwyer" <stdwyer@dreamscape.com>
I'd like to add a small 1.5" long angle bracket running lengthwise at the outside
aft end of the canopy frame bow. This is to assist in opening the canopy from
the closed position, will this cause a turbulence error reading problem with
the static port pickup located approximately 5' farther aft?
I dont see a callout for any type of weather strip where the slider canopy bow
meets the rollover bar at the windscreen. Isn't this a leak potential for rain
while parked on the ground? I cannot find any reference to this possible problem
in the instructions.
Are we using the wood window casing strips as part of the gear leg fairings or
not? My finish kit supplied the three fiberglass leg fairings and I overheard
someone at sun n fun say that van no longer installs the wood since it is no
longer necessary, comments anyone?
Steve Dwyer Chirstmas is over now back to work!!!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: slider canopy questions |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
> I'd like to add a small 1.5" long angle bracket running lengthwise at the
outside aft end of the canopy frame bow.
> This is to assist in opening the canopy from the closed position, will
this cause a turbulence error reading problem with the static port pickup
located approximately 5' farther aft?
>
I have seen many tip up canopies with exactly that on the left side rear
lower corner for lifting the canopy open. I have installed one myself but
not flying yet.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Message 4
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--> RV9-List message posted by: Lonnie Woodman <fxdlrider@yahoo.com>
Take it for what it is worth, but this is copied and pasted from AC 43.13-1B Chapter
8 Paragraph 38 f.
Do not use Teflon tape on any fuel lines to avoid getting the tape between the
flare and fitting, which can cause fluid leaks.
Lonnie Woodman A&P
Ralph Cloud <ercouper@flash.net> wrote:--> RV9-List message posted by: "Ralph
Cloud"
...The "proper" (according to Parker) way to install pipe threads
> is to use a little thread sealer (teflon tape or teflon pipe dope) being
> careful not to allow any loose pieces to get inside the tank,...
Be careful... I do not recommend using teflon tape in any fuel nor hydraulic
(brakes) systems. It is amazing how that stuff can get into and plug
orifices.
Ralph
Livermore - Wings OTW
do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Drain Valves |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
You are absolutely correct about flare fittings. There should NEVER be
any tape or pipe dope or anything else used with these fittings. The
flare fitting seals by metal to metal contact between the two flared
pieces and the threads only serve to hold everything together. Adding
any type of sealant just serves to degrade the seal - not help it!
The original question was about the fuel drain valve which is not a
flare fitting but a NPT fitting. These type of fittings DO need
something to seal the threads since the threaded area provides both the
mechanical holding power and the sealing area. The consensus seems to
be to use pipe dope - teflon or other. In fact, if done properly,
teflon tape will work fine in this type of application and will not get
into the fuel, etc. However, I will concede to the majority since the
pipe dope is much more forgiving and cannot shed particles which teflon
tape can do if not installed properly. Therefore, if you have to ask,
do not use teflon tape!
Dick Tasker, 90573
Lonnie Woodman wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: Lonnie Woodman <fxdlrider@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Take it for what it is worth, but this is copied and pasted from AC 43.13-1B Chapter
8 Paragraph 38 f.
>
>Do not use Teflon tape on any fuel lines to avoid getting the tape between the
flare and fitting, which can cause fluid leaks.
>
>Lonnie Woodman A&P
> Ralph Cloud <ercouper@flash.net> wrote:--> RV9-List message posted by: "Ralph
Cloud"
>
>...The "proper" (according to Parker) way to install pipe threads
>
>
>>is to use a little thread sealer (teflon tape or teflon pipe dope) being
>>careful not to allow any loose pieces to get inside the tank,...
>>
>>
>
>
>Be careful... I do not recommend using teflon tape in any fuel nor hydraulic
>(brakes) systems. It is amazing how that stuff can get into and plug
>orifices.
>
>Ralph
>Livermore - Wings OTW
>do not archive
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: slider canopy questions |
12/27/2002 11:16:36 PM,
Serialize complete at 12/27/2002 11:16:36 PM
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman@atofina.com>
Steve,
There are many slider and tipup canopies with just such an angle. Don't
worry about it.
I put some weatherstrip material between my front bow and the canopy frame
for a seal. Works great if you can find one that is small enough. I found
some that was already adhesive backed to it went on without a problem.
Wooden shims on the gear leg - per Van's support - try taxi tests first.
If you do not have gear leg shimmy, then do not put them on. The vans
demonstrator planes do not have them. I put them on my plane before I got
the word and have not seen the problem.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
N194DL flying 26 hours now
steve dwyer <stdwyer@dreamscape.com>
12/27/2002 01:34 PM
Please respond to rv9-list
To: rv9-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV9-List: slider canopy questions
--> RV9-List message posted by: "steve dwyer" <stdwyer@dreamscape.com>
I'd like to add a small 1.5" long angle bracket running lengthwise at the
outside aft end of the canopy frame bow. This is to assist in opening the
canopy from the closed position, will this cause a turbulence error
reading problem with the static port pickup located approximately 5'
farther aft?
I dont see a callout for any type of weather strip where the slider canopy
bow meets the rollover bar at the windscreen. Isn't this a leak potential
for rain while parked on the ground? I cannot find any reference to this
possible problem in the instructions.
Are we using the wood window casing strips as part of the gear leg
fairings or not? My finish kit supplied the three fiberglass leg fairings
and I overheard someone at sun n fun say that van no longer installs the
wood since it is no longer necessary, comments anyone?
Steve Dwyer Chirstmas is over now back to work!!!
Message 7
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Thanks all for the 'Drain Valve' responses. That helped my confidence. I
have used Teflon paste not tape.
Richard - I think the 'two turns' is in fact two flats ie 1/3 turn. Who is
Parker?
Best wishes for '03.
Steve.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard E. Tasker
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Drain Valves
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
They are 1/8 NPT - tapered pipe threads. They do only screw in a few
threads. The "proper" (according to Parker) way to install pipe threads
is to use a little thread sealer (teflon tape or teflon pipe dope) being
careful not to allow any loose pieces to get inside the tank, screw the
valve into the fitting by hand and then use a wrench to tighten it two
more turns.
Dick Tasker, 90573
Steve Sampson wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Seasons greetings to you all!
>
>Do the drain valves screw home or are they designed so the threads lock up
>so there is no leak. Mine only seem to screw in a short distance.
>
>Thanks, Steve.
>#90360
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | slider canopy questions |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Steve,
I have those tabs on both sides of my canopy and am really glad I did. My
canopy ended up fitting very nicely, and I needed them to get the first 2
inches open, after than the canopy slides open on it's own.
Regarding weatherstripping, I put a small strip between the front bow and
the windshield. It's just the cheap adhesive backed stuff from Lowe's but
it works great. My rear skirts are tight enough that I didn't need any, and
so were my side skirts.
About leg stiffners, I don't have them and haven't yet found a need for
them. I say fly it first, and if needed install them later. This seems to
be very individualistic between planes. I fly of a "unsmooth" grass strip,
and haven't had shimmy problems there or on pavement.
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch, Minneapolis.
RV6, Flying. Just flew from MSP to MKE for lunch today. Did I mention these
are awesome planes:)
Just clicked 80 hrs!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of steve dwyer
Subject: RV9-List: slider canopy questions
--> RV9-List message posted by: "steve dwyer" <stdwyer@dreamscape.com>
I'd like to add a small 1.5" long angle bracket running lengthwise at the
outside aft end of the canopy frame bow. This is to assist in opening the
canopy from the closed position, will this cause a turbulence error reading
problem with the static port pickup located approximately 5' farther aft?
I dont see a callout for any type of weather strip where the slider canopy
bow meets the rollover bar at the windscreen. Isn't this a leak potential
for rain while parked on the ground? I cannot find any reference to this
possible problem in the instructions.
Are we using the wood window casing strips as part of the gear leg fairings
or not? My finish kit supplied the three fiberglass leg fairings and I
overheard someone at sun n fun say that van no longer installs the wood
since it is no longer necessary, comments anyone?
Steve Dwyer Chirstmas is over now back to work!!!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Drain Valves |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2@insightbb.com>
Steve,
The NPT threads should engage at least 2 turns, finger tight, before needing
a wrench for tightening. If you're only getting 1/3 Turn, something is
wrong.
NPT Threads are "tapered", unlike Metric Threads that are "straight".
The theory is the taper "bottoms out" the threads of the fittings and there
is less space for the sealant between the threads and hence less area for
pressure to act on the sealant. Metric Threads rely completely on the
thread dope for the seal.
Some Metric Pipe Fittings are even set up to use O-rings or gaskets rather
than thread dope.
You may have a defective taped hole, or perhaps a thread on the plug is
dinged.
When you're done, at least half of the male threaded section should be
engaged with the female threaded section, and often even more. If the
fittings "bottom out" where there is no male threads showing, something is
also wrong.
Dave
BTW, Parker is Parker Hannifin, a major manufacture of pipe fittings in the
USA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Drain Valves
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
<SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
> Thanks all for the 'Drain Valve' responses. That helped my confidence. I
> have used Teflon paste not tape.
>
> Richard - I think the 'two turns' is in fact two flats ie 1/3 turn. Who is
> Parker?
>
> Best wishes for '03.
> Steve.
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Drain Valves |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gene" <gene@nvaircraft.com>
Steve,
I had to run a tap in all of the VA-112 drain flanges so far. I used
about two turns and that made the Q/D fitting lack about 3/32" of bottoming
out on the flange. If the tap was not used then the quick drain stuck out
about 3/16" + unnecessary and sticking out in the wind. I also used teflon
paste.
Gene N557RV (res.) waiting on fuse.
Message 11
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--> RV9-List message posted by: Todd Houg <thoug@attglobal.net>
When I first installed the drain valves in the machined aluminum I wasn't pleased
with how far they extended. They had two or three threads fully engaged, but
there was a lot of thread showing yet. I used a standard 1/8" NPT tap and tapped
out the aluminum to gain some additionaly thread depth. I was careful not
to go to deep since I didn't want to bottom the threads out. I frequently checked
the depth during tapping until I had just a couple of threads exposed.
I'm sure I'll gain at least .0001 Knots by having less drag from the exposed fittings!
;)
Todd Houg
=09
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Nicholson
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Drain Valves
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2@insightbb.com>
Steve,
The NPT threads should engage at least 2 turns, finger tight, before needing
a wrench for tightening. If you're only getting 1/3 Turn, something is
wrong.
NPT Threads are "tapered", unlike Metric Threads that are "straight".
The theory is the taper "bottoms out" the threads of the fittings and there
is less space for the sealant between the threads and hence less area for
pressure to act on the sealant. Metric Threads rely completely on the
thread dope for the seal.
Some Metric Pipe Fittings are even set up to use O-rings or gaskets rather
than thread dope.
You may have a defective taped hole, or perhaps a thread on the plug is
dinged.
When you're done, at least half of the male threaded section should be
engaged with the female threaded section, and often even more. If the
fittings "bottom out" where there is no male threads showing, something is
also wrong.
Dave
BTW, Parker is Parker Hannifin, a major manufacture of pipe fittings in the
USA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Drain Valves
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
<SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
> Thanks all for the 'Drain Valve' responses. That helped my confidence. I
> have used Teflon paste not tape.
>
> Richard - I think the 'two turns' is in fact two flats ie 1/3 turn. Who is
> Parker?
>
> Best wishes for '03.
> Steve.
>
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Message 12
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"Rv6-List" <rv6-list@matronics.com>, "Rv7-List" <rv7-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Accidental IFR!!!! |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi All,
Slightly off-topic, but VERY pertinent none the less.
Today a friend and I had the day off so we decided to fly from Minneapolis
to Milwaukee to see some old buds at the Citabria factory. Weather online
looked good...checked METARS,TAFS,RADAR,SATELLITE, etc.. Forecast was
great...so....
We took off around 10:00 am for an expected 1.5 hour flight to Milwaukee.
Great flight, 205mph over the ground and arrived at the Citabria factory's
airport ahead of schedule to some hefty crosswinds, but nothing else.
Stayed there until about 2:00pm then went outside to head home. Here starts
my flight from hell.
There was an overcast layer about 3500', but clear below and the forecasts
looked OK, so off we went for MSP. Winds had picked up to 18G22 directly
across the runway, but not a huge deal since the wind at home was only
8-12KT. Flew for about .5 hour and started running into some haze and the
clouds were getting lower. We pressed on, but had decided to turn back if
it didn't get better. Well, it didn't and about 5 minutes later the clouds
dropped all the way to the ground and into a wall of
fog/haze/clouds/overcast we went:( Made an immediate 180 to go back, but
the weather suddenly had dropped all over the place. SOLID IFR/IMC and 0/0
visibility! Heading back didn't help. Called flight watch and found out
the layer was only about 2000' thick and VFR on top. Since these planes
just love to climb, we immediately went up above. Beautiful sun over the
clouds and away towards Minneapolis we go! Fly back to the flight plan that
was plugged into my SkyforceIIIc and proceeded to fly towards home when
about 5 minutes later the GPS lost all satellite signals and I got a "no fix
possible" warning. GREAT, no ground to look at and no GPS. We were
originally just going to follow the good old Mississippi river home, but no
good above a solid cloud deck.
All this while flying against a 35Kt Cross/Headwind that made flying
straight & level miserable, terribly bumpy (+4/-2G), and overall NO FUN.
I had to revert to flying with the VOR---GOD I'm glad I put that thing in my
panel! Pulled out the sectional, found some VOR's and got back on track
towards home. Called flight watch and found out the clouds were breaking
near Minneapolis so everything was pretty smooth from there. About 20 miles
south of MSP the clouds broke and we arrived safely, albeit a bit tired,
stressed, and somewhat rattled.
Anyway, my whole point is that I've become some dependent on my GPS and it's
flight plans that I've rarely had occasion to use my charts and VOR. Just
thought I'd pass on a reminder to everyone that it definately pays to keep a
sectional handy. Additionally, if you have a VOR, it pays to keep at least
somewhat current! Oh, one last thing...flying IFR/IMC "accidently" is NO
FUN and definately NOT SAFE when you're not prepared.
Well, happy flying and CLEAR SKIES!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6, Minneapolis
Do Not Archive.
P.S. I looked at the weather when I got home, and it looked much better than
it actually was. Lesson Learned.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Drain Valves |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
No, the two turns is two turns after finger tight (unless you have
really strong fingers :-) ). Two flats is more like what a flare
fitting is turned after finger tight - actually this is normally
approximately 1.5 flats for proper sealing.
As Dave correctly stated, Parker is Parker Hannifin.
My company manufactures pressure sensors and we deal with almost two
dozen different thread types. The NPT are very common in the US,
although the SAE type which seal with an o-ring are a close second.
There are also the flare fittings used primarily in aerospace
applications which have the same thread size as the SAE fittings but
seal with an o-ring.
There are basically three types of fittings (with lots of variations and
sizes):
1. Tapered (NPT) - 2-2.5 turns after finger tight and some type of
thread sealant is necessary. There is a subclass of these that are call
"dryseal" threads which are precision machined and do not use thread
sealant but you will probably never see any of these.
2. AN (and similar) fittings - approximately 1.5 flats after finger
tight and DO NOT use any type of sealant - they seal on the metal faces
of the tapers.
3. SAE and metric (straight thread with o-ring) - just past finger tight
(not even one flat) and NO thread sealant - the o-ring provides the seal.
Dick Tasker, 90573.
Steve Sampson wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Thanks all for the 'Drain Valve' responses. That helped my confidence. I
>have used Teflon paste not tape.
>
>Richard - I think the 'two turns' is in fact two flats ie 1/3 turn. Who is
>Parker?
>
>Best wishes for '03.
>Steve.
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard E. Tasker
>Sent: 27 December 2002 01:09
>To: rv9-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV9-List: Drain Valves
>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
>
>They are 1/8 NPT - tapered pipe threads. They do only screw in a few
>threads. The "proper" (according to Parker) way to install pipe threads
>is to use a little thread sealer (teflon tape or teflon pipe dope) being
>careful not to allow any loose pieces to get inside the tank, screw the
>valve into the fitting by hand and then use a wrench to tighten it two
>more turns.
>
>Dick Tasker, 90573
>
>Steve Sampson wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>>
>>Seasons greetings to you all!
>>
>>Do the drain valves screw home or are they designed so the threads lock up
>>so there is no leak. Mine only seem to screw in a short distance.
>>
>>Thanks, Steve.
>>#90360
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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