Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:10 AM - Re: Tips on the tips (Steve Sampson)
2. 07:31 AM - Wing rear spar (Paul Eckenroth)
3. 07:57 AM - Re: Wing rear spar (Gary Newsted)
4. 08:14 AM - Rivet Length (Ken Moak)
5. 09:09 AM - Re: Rivet Length (Bob Hassel)
6. 11:49 AM - Re: Rivet Length (Albert Gardner)
7. 02:07 PM - Re: Rivet Length (Gary)
8. 02:50 PM - FW: Tips on the tips (Steve Sampson)
9. 02:50 PM - Re: Wing rear spar (Steve Sampson)
10. 02:58 PM - Re: Wing rear spar (Curt Hoffman)
11. 04:32 PM - HS Nose Ribs (Glenn Brasch)
12. 07:55 PM - Re: Rivet Length (Gary Newsted)
13. 08:59 PM - N169AK First Flight (Andy Karmy)
14. 09:20 PM - Re: N169AK First Flight (Ken Moak)
15. 11:47 PM - Re: HS Nose Ribs (Ralph Cloud)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Tips on the tips |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Andy - thanks for that.
I have checked the position of the ailerons and flaps 'til I am blue and all
are locked within about 1/3 of a degree with each other and in position. I
am concerned however that there is a tendency for the trailing edge of the
flaps to droop. Is this what happened to you (or yours)?
In the end I will have to go for it. However these incidence and position
issues I like to live with for a while. Not because I like the indecision,
because I find it reduces the chances of mistakes!
Thanks, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Karmy
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Tips on the tips
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Just make extra sure that you have the aileron's setup with the belcrank jig
all setup etc. Now is the only easy time you will have getting the trailing
edges to match up.
I did this carefully (I thought) but when I did the final assembly and
rigging one of the tips was about 1/2" low from the neutral aileron!
Sucked... I had to cut the TE of the tip and reglass it together to make
everything work out.
Just measure, fit and go for it! Good Luck Steve!
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Just about to put the tips on. Have them all ready and taped into position
>and am about to start drilling. Before I do any gotchas? I am a little
>concerned that with the trailing edge in alignement there is going to be
>some 'extra' f'glass that does not know where to go just outside the rear
>spar (like an oilcan effect). Perhaps the spanwise rib will take it away?
>
>All input welcome.
>Steve
>#90360
>N Yorks., UK
>
>
Message 2
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Eckenroth" <jeckenroth@nbn.net>
I have requested an answer from Van's engineers on the following but would also
appreciate opinions from knowledgeable listers. My left rear spar has a 3/16"
arch upward in the center when assembled. Obviously this will preclude constructing
a straight wing. Assuming Van's says "no problem", what effect might
this have on aileron, flap adjustments and on the final flight characteristics
of the finished plane. Will the results be bad enough to warrant replacing
the parts now? Wing is assembled - not riveted.
Paul Eckenroth
Palmyra, PA
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing rear spar |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary Newsted" <fcs@jlc.net>
3/16 is not a huge arch, and will probably flatten out as you construct the
wing, but considering that this is a spar, and spars of all things, should be
straight, I might be tempted to ask for a replacement. My two cents....
Message 4
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--> RV9-List message posted by: Ken Moak <ken_moak@yahoo.com>
Am I doing something wrong? I use the rivet length
that the plans call for and often it seems like I need
a 1/2 size longer. If the plans call for a 3.5 I seem
to need a 4. If it calls for a 4 a sanded down 5.
Often (not always) I end up with a thin shop head,
diameter is right, if I blindly stick the rivet in
without measuring. I have clecoed every hole to make
sure it is tight. Found this on several areas on the
empennage. Has anyone else had this happen?
Ken
90608
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 5
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
Yes - I have had this happen. Could be due to a number of reasons but I
find myself going up a half size of rivet length periodically. As you say
it's worth checking.
Bob Hassel
RV9A
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken Moak
Subject: RV9-List: Rivet Length
--> RV9-List message posted by: Ken Moak <ken_moak@yahoo.com>
Am I doing something wrong? I use the rivet length
that the plans call for and often it seems like I need
a 1/2 size longer. If the plans call for a 3.5 I seem
to need a 4. If it calls for a 4 a sanded down 5.
Often (not always) I end up with a thin shop head,
diameter is right, if I blindly stick the rivet in
without measuring. I have clecoed every hole to make
sure it is tight. Found this on several areas on the
empennage. Has anyone else had this happen?
Ken
90608
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Length |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner@worldnet.att.net>
I would get a set of rivet gages. One tells you the length required and the
other checks the shop head after you set it. Length is easy to check and
either confirms what the plans call for or tells you what you really need.
generally the plans are correct but not in every case. After you get some
practice setting rivets you can often tell if they are OK just by feel but I
still check some every now and again just to be sure.
Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
N872RV
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Length |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary" <rv9er@3rivers.net>
Ken.....this is very common. I have gotten to the point where I use my homemade
rivet gage to check the lengths on most everything. I also made a rivet set
gage for each size. I often use different length rivets than the drawings call
out........sometimes shorter, sometimes longer.
I use a rivet cutter sometimes to make adjustments in the length. If it is an
awkward rivet to set, it may tend to clinch over if it is a bit too long.
Gary 90263
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Moak
To: rv9-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 9:14 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Rivet Length
--> RV9-List message posted by: Ken Moak <ken_moak@yahoo.com>
Am I doing something wrong? I use the rivet length
that the plans call for and often it seems like I need
a 1/2 size longer. If the plans call for a 3.5 I seem
to need a 4. If it calls for a 4 a sanded down 5.
Often (not always) I end up with a thin shop head,
diameter is right, if I blindly stick the rivet in
without measuring. I have clecoed every hole to make
sure it is tight. Found this on several areas on the
empennage. Has anyone else had this happen?
Ken
90608
---
Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/23/02
Message 8
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| Subject: | Tips on the tips |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Andy - that should have read ................the trailing edge of the tips
to droop...... Oops! Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sampson
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Tips on the tips
* > RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Andy - thanks for that.
I have checked the position of the ailerons and flaps 'til I am blue and all
are locked within about 1/3 of a degree with each other and in position. I
am concerned however that there is a tendency for the trailing edge of the
flaps to droop. Is this what happened to you (or yours)?
In the end I will have to go for it. However these incidence and position
issues I like to live with for a while. Not because I like the indecision,
because I find it reduces the chances of mistakes!
Thanks, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Karmy
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Tips on the tips
* > RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Just make extra sure that you have the aileron's setup with the belcrank jig
all setup etc. Now is the only easy time you will have getting the trailing
edges to match up.
I did this carefully (I thought) but when I did the final assembly and
rigging one of the tips was about 1/2" low from the neutral aileron!
Sucked... I had to cut the TE of the tip and reglass it together to make
everything work out.
Just measure, fit and go for it! Good Luck Steve!
* Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Just about to put the tips on. Have them all ready and taped into position
>and am about to start drilling. Before I do any gotchas? I am a little
>concerned that with the trailing edge in alignement there is going to be
>some 'extra' f'glass that does not know where to go just outside the rear
>spar (like an oilcan effect). Perhaps the spanwise rib will take it away?
>
>All input welcome.
>Steve
>#90360
>N Yorks., UK
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 9
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
I agree with Gary! It would bug me forever. Even if it did fly right I
would swear it did not. Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Newsted
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Wing rear spar
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary Newsted" <fcs@jlc.net>
3/16 is not a huge arch, and will probably flatten out as you construct the
wing, but considering that this is a spar, and spars of all things, should
be
straight, I might be tempted to ask for a replacement. My two cents....
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wing rear spar |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
You mention the rise is when the skeleton is assembled but not riveted. I
would probably try clecoeing on the skins on one side and see what it looks
like. With the ribs all being the same length it's not clear how you could
actually end up with a rise once riveted but you should also be able to tell
if you can clecoe on the skins. If all the skins go on, the wing has to be
straight, or at least as good as it gets. There are too many holes to allow
much misalignment.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done- working on tail
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eckenroth" <jeckenroth@nbn.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Wing rear spar
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Eckenroth" <jeckenroth@nbn.net>
>
> I have requested an answer from Van's engineers on the following but would
also appreciate opinions from knowledgeable listers. My left rear spar has
a 3/16" arch upward in the center when assembled. Obviously this will
preclude constructing a straight wing. Assuming Van's says "no problem",
what effect might this have on aileron, flap adjustments and on the final
flight characteristics of the finished plane. Will the results be bad
enough to warrant replacing the parts now? Wing is assembled - not riveted.
>
> Paul Eckenroth
> Palmyra, PA
>
>
Message 11
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
I have encountered the same problem as others with these ribs, especially the center
one that when riveted wants to pull the skin down flat. I have searched
the archives and appears one fix is to put in a shim between the rib flange and
skin. Is this the general consensus, or are there any other ideas out there?
Thanks in advance. Glenn Brasch, Arizona, -9A Emp.
DO NOT ARCHIVE.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Length |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary Newsted" <fcs@jlc.net>
Ken, As a good rule of thumb, 1.5 times the diameter of the rivet should be
showing to get a good shop head. The variance you are experiencing is commonly
a result of a larger hole size than "spec". You'll find that in thicker metals
and places you countersunk instead of dimpled, the rivets behave as expected,
but in thin metals you'll occasionally need to use the next size longer. This
is because the drilling and dimpling process often results in a hole slightly
larger than the drill bit you started out with. This is not bad, and in fact
it is to be expected, so don't try to undersize the holes, just grab the rivet
that works. Rest assured, you've got a ton of extra rivets. I am down to one
last panel in the project, maybe 200 rivets to go, and I'd guess I've got
several thousand spare rivets. I don't even bother checking the plans anymore
when selecting rivets. Once you've got your zen going, you just know which ones
will yield that perfect fit. A secure joint is the goal. You're doing the
right thing.
Message 13
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"RV-9A@yahoogroups.com" <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | N169AK First Flight |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
RV9A 90374 - N169AK first flight
The day dawned clear and cold Sunday February 23, 2003. With the inspection over,
the planning done, checks and double checks finished, fuel added, it was time
to fly. Pulling the plane from the hanger people started showing up. My wife
and I had the plan in mind, but it was great to see a few of my local EAA buds
from the chapter show up just because they knew that I was going to fly today
Engine starts easily, and a quick trip down to the pumps for 5 more gallons of
gas. Now its run up time. 2200 RPM static full throttle on the ground is good
for the Sensenich FP prop. Everything is still looking good, so out to the runway
we go. Lineup full throttle, with no flaps I am off in a very short amount
of time. I run a bit on the main gear with the nose in the air as the RV9 has
such a large tail and good elevator control. Lift off is smooth and climb out
is brisk. Its about 40degrees and I am seeing 1600fpm at 100+mph! Still turning
about 2250 RPM during climb out.
Pitch felt good, ailerons needed just 2-3 taps on the electric aileron trim. Hey
this is just too cool The RV grin is starting! By downwind I am at 2000agl and
climbing, level off at 3000 and start the racetrack around the airport. I flew
about 20 minuets of just turning right and left in circles around the airport.
Next came slow flight, everything felt nice a easy at 70mph, so I dropped
the flaps to half and then full. Everything still nice and balanced, controls
are now much lighter in feel at 70mph. Everything looking good I accelerated
back to cruise.
At 3000agl with 2400RPM I was indicating a solid 160mph with no gear leg fairings
or wheel pants. Not bad, this baby is going to cruise nicely. Well everything
is still looking good, so its time to let down for landing. Pushing the nose
downhill winds the airspeed through 185+ very quickly, pull the power back and
float down onto the 45. Downwind established at about 120mph, pull the power
to idle abeam the numbers and start feeding in flaps as I come through 85, full
flaps on base and capture 70mph and about 500fpm descent. Sweeping around
to final and holding about 70 gives a nice approach for this first one, everything
is lined up and working great as I setup the landing flair from memory of
my training in the RV6A (Thanks Mike Seager) I hold the pitch attitude and wait,
however I was used to the 6A which sits quite a bit lower than the 9A, so
next thing I know the wheels hit and I get a little bounce out of it, holding
attitude the speed bleeds off and the second landing is smooth YEA first flight
is a success!
Post flight inspection did not uncover any leaks, or anything else that needed
working on. So whats a guy to do, but a second flight. While I was orbiting on
the second flight a friend from the EAA chapter came up in his RV6 to do some
formation inspection and video camera work. We had a great 30 min of air to air
shots and compared airspeeds etc. Great fun!
All in all 1.5 hours TT today and my face is still hurting from the famous RV grin!
As in those famous words, Keep pounding those rivets, because you are going to
love this plane!
Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA
N169AK - Flying
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: N169AK First Flight |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Ken Moak <ken_moak@yahoo.com>
Andy
Congratulations!
Great to hear the first flight went so well.
I'm jealous, got a lot of work to do. Thanks for the
motivation.
--- Andy Karmy <andy@karmy.com> wrote:
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy"
> <andy@karmy.com>
>
>
> RV9A 90374 - N169AK first flight
>
> The day dawned clear and cold Sunday February 23,
> 2003. With the inspection over, the planning done,
> checks and double checks finished, fuel added, it
> was time to fly. Pulling the plane from the hanger
> people started showing up. My wife and I had the
> plan in mind, but it was great to see a few of my
> local EAA buds from the chapter show up just because
> they knew that I was going to fly today
>
> Engine starts easily, and a quick trip down to the
> pumps for 5 more gallons of gas. Now its run up
> time. 2200 RPM static full throttle on the ground is
> good for the Sensenich FP prop. Everything is still
> looking good, so out to the runway we go. Lineup
> full throttle, with no flaps I am off in a very
> short amount of time. I run a bit on the main gear
> with the nose in the air as the RV9 has such a large
> tail and good elevator control. Lift off is smooth
> and climb out is brisk. Its about 40degrees and I am
> seeing 1600fpm at 100+mph! Still turning about 2250
> RPM during climb out.
>
> Pitch felt good, ailerons needed just 2-3 taps on
> the electric aileron trim. Hey this is just too cool
> The RV grin is starting! By downwind I am at 2000agl
> and climbing, level off at 3000 and start the
> racetrack around the airport. I flew about 20
> minuets of just turning right and left in circles
> around the airport. Next came slow flight,
> everything felt nice a easy at 70mph, so I dropped
> the flaps to half and then full. Everything still
> nice and balanced, controls are now much lighter in
> feel at 70mph. Everything looking good I accelerated
> back to cruise.
>
> At 3000agl with 2400RPM I was indicating a solid
> 160mph with no gear leg fairings or wheel pants. Not
> bad, this baby is going to cruise nicely. Well
> everything is still looking good, so its time to let
> down for landing. Pushing the nose downhill winds
> the airspeed through 185+ very quickly, pull the
> power back and float down onto the 45. Downwind
> established at about 120mph, pull the power to idle
> abeam the numbers and start feeding in flaps as I
> come through 85, full flaps on base and capture
> 70mph and about 500fpm descent. Sweeping around to
> final and holding about 70 gives a nice approach for
> this first one, everything is lined up and working
> great as I setup the landing flair from memory of my
> training in the RV6A (Thanks Mike Seager) I hold the
> pitch attitude and wait, however I was used to the
> 6A which sits quite a bit lower than the 9A, so next
> thing I know the wheels hit and I get a little
> bounce out of it, holding attitude the speed bleeds
> off and the second landing!
> is smooth YEA first flight is a success!
>
> Post flight inspection did not uncover any leaks, or
> anything else that needed working on. So whats a guy
> to do, but a second flight. While I was orbiting on
> the second flight a friend from the EAA chapter came
> up in his RV6 to do some formation inspection and
> video camera work. We had a great 30 min of air to
> air shots and compared airspeeds etc. Great fun!
>
> All in all 1.5 hours TT today and my face is still
> hurting from the famous RV grin!
>
> As in those famous words, Keep pounding those
> rivets, because you are going to love this plane!
>
> Andy Karmy
> RV9A Seattle WA
> N169AK - Flying
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ken Moak #90608
Fort Worth, TX
Empennage, wings have arrived!
ken_moak@yahoo.com
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 15
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Ralph Cloud" <ercouper@flash.net>
Tighten the leading edge bend by putting a 1" pipe in the inside of the skin
real tight and put a wide flat board on the outside and push down... but be
gentle, you don't want to crease the bend.
I riveted, starting from the leading edge, first 4 or so rivets of the
center rib to the top skin first (it's the one most people will see) then to
the bottom skin.
Ralph in Livermore, CA
wings inventoried but still banging out the emp
do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Brasch
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:33 PM
> To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: HS Nose Ribs
>
>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
>
> I have encountered the same problem as others with these ribs,
> especially the center one that when riveted wants to pull the
> skin down flat. I have searched the archives and appears one fix
> is to put in a shim between the rib flange and skin. Is this the
> general consensus, or are there any other ideas out there?
> Thanks in advance. Glenn Brasch, Arizona, -9A Emp.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE.
>
>
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