Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:12 AM - Re: wiring wing (John Harris)
2. 07:20 AM - Re: wiring wing (DThomas773@aol.com)
3. 09:31 AM - Top Skin Riveting (Richard Tasker)
4. 03:09 PM - Re: Top Skin Riveting (John Oliveira)
5. 03:37 PM - Fuel sender (Don Alexander)
6. 03:52 PM - Re: Fuel sender (Andy Karmy)
7. 03:59 PM - Re: Top Skin Riveting (Richard Tasker)
8. 04:12 PM - Re: Fuel sender (Richard Tasker)
9. 06:03 PM - Re: Fuel sender (Larry Perryman)
10. 06:16 PM - V Speeds ()
11. 06:24 PM - Re: Fuel sender (Richard E. Tasker)
12. 06:52 PM - Re: V Speeds (Larry Perryman)
13. 07:00 PM - Re: Fuel sender (guy)
14. 08:02 PM - Re: Top Skin Riveting (KDMIGAS@aol.com)
15. 09:27 PM - Re: Performance Numbers (Andy Karmy)
Message 1
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "John Harris" <johnharris@nc.rr.com>
Curt,
I laid the conduit in the second lightening hole from the forward spar and
held in place with brackets made from 2 x 1.5 inch trim. Drill a hole
about 3/8 from one end and cut a slot to the other end that is tangent to
the sides of the hole. Slip the bracket onto the conduit at each rib and
rivet to the ribs. The conduit clears the pushrod to the aileron by about
two inches and is straight. Ill try to post a picture.
John
John M. Harris
RV9A Kit number 90022 Wings
N922RV Reserved
205 Kudrow Lane
Morrisville, NC 27560
(919)469-6009
Message 2
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--> RV9-List message posted by: DThomas773@aol.com
Hi Curt,
I did the same conduit and routing as John. I made a cushion for the conduit
passing through each of the lightning holes by using a 1 inch piece of
plastic, split on one side and slipped over the edge of the hole. I held
them in place with tie wraps.
Dennis Thomas
fuselage
Message 3
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| Subject: | Top Skin Riveting |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
How do you rivet the last few rivets on the most inboard end of the skin
where the rear spar doubler is? There is essentially no room there for
any kind of bucking bar (at least any I have). I tried squeezing them
and that didn't work either. Help!!
It seems that it would have been easier to rivet the rear spar assembly
together after the skin was riveted to the rear spar...
Thanks,
Dick Tasker, 90573
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Top Skin Riveting |
--> RV9-List message posted by: John Oliveira <oliveira@frontiernet.net>
I could not remember any problem so I went to the basement and checked
the completed wings. It jarred my memory. I used a pneumatic squeezer
with the long narrow jaws to do all of the rear spar upper skin rivets.
- No problem, the look just as neat as all the rest. I back riveted the
remainder of the upper wing skin using a large mushroom shaped polished
bucking bar from avery and the extended (about 7 inch long) back
riveting set to reach through from the bottom side. Came out very nice.
I wish I could say the same for the lower skins, especially around the
flap brackets. That was the real bucking bar and reach problem.
John Oliveira
90054 N909RV - waiting for my March 17th Fuselage shipment, finishing
the last flap.
Richard Tasker wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>
>How do you rivet the last few rivets on the most inboard end of the skin
>where the rear spar doubler is? There is essentially no room there for
>any kind of bucking bar (at least any I have). I tried squeezing them
>and that didn't work either. Help!!
>
>It seems that it would have been easier to rivet the rear spar assembly
>together after the skin was riveted to the rear spar...
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dick Tasker, 90573
>
>
Message 5
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--> RV9-List message posted by: Don Alexander <don_shirley@propjock.com>
I'm getting ready to place my order for the wings and again there is a choice to
be made. This time its "just" the type of fuel sender, which as I understand
doesn't require one to put their manhood on the line like those decision like
which end of the plane gets the third wheel or what kind of primer you're using,
if any.
My understanding is the capacitance type sender works with ONE gauge (the lady
at Van's said it was $300) and is a bear to replace should it fail. On the plus
side it's very accurate (which I'm not really sure actually is a plus since
I don't put much reliance on the gauges of my Cherokee now and don't plan to
in the future - relying instead on a conservative estimate of burn rate and using
the gauges to detect large leaks). The other choice is a float gauge sender
which isn't as accurate but is cheap, reliable, and more easily repaired/replaced
should that be necessary.
Is there anything else I need to know before making this decision? Is there another
option that's better that Van's doesn't support?
Don
90702 -empennage
Message 6
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Well it is very accurate... But the downside is you have to calibrate it. It takes
a bunch of fiddeling around with it to get it calibrated right (mine is still
a work in progress) but is very accurate once finished.
If it works when you first try it, I find it hard to imagine that it would break
in the future. There are no moving parts as it's simply 2 plates in the tank
bolted to the baffle ribs.
I do really like the EI fuel gauge in terms of presentation in the cockpit.
So as with all of these things it's up to what you want!
- Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA
12hr TT!
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>My understanding is the capacitance type sender works with ONE gauge (the lady
at Van's said it was $300) and is a bear to replace should it fail. On the plus
side it's very accurate (which I'm not really sure
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Top Skin Riveting |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
I was afraid that someone would say that (squeezer with long narrow
jaws). I assume that you are referring to the one with the really thin
end that does not use a rivet set in that jaw. Of course, I don't have
that set of jaws for my pneumatic squeezer :-( .
How much did you use those jaws? Just on this or on lots of other places?
When you used the extended back riveting set with the mushroom bucking
bar, were you able to do any of it by yourself or did you have help for
all the rivets? I tried the extended set but didn't have very good
luck. I did not use the large bucking bar (just one of the typical flat
bars) so that may have been my problem.
Thanks,
Dick Tasker
John Oliveira wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: John Oliveira <oliveira@frontiernet.net>
>
>I could not remember any problem so I went to the basement and checked
>the completed wings. It jarred my memory. I used a pneumatic squeezer
>with the long narrow jaws to do all of the rear spar upper skin rivets.
>- No problem, the look just as neat as all the rest. I back riveted the
>remainder of the upper wing skin using a large mushroom shaped polished
>bucking bar from avery and the extended (about 7 inch long) back
>riveting set to reach through from the bottom side. Came out very nice.
>
>I wish I could say the same for the lower skins, especially around the
>flap brackets. That was the real bucking bar and reach problem.
>
>John Oliveira
>90054 N909RV - waiting for my March 17th Fuselage shipment, finishing
>the last flap.
>
>
>Richard Tasker wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>
>>How do you rivet the last few rivets on the most inboard end of the skin
>>where the rear spar doubler is? There is essentially no room there for
>>any kind of bucking bar (at least any I have). I tried squeezing them
>>and that didn't work either. Help!!
>>
>>It seems that it would have been easier to rivet the rear spar assembly
>>together after the skin was riveted to the rear spar...
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dick Tasker, 90573
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
I would say that it is not a bear to replace - impossible would be a
better word! On the other hand, there is not really anything to fail.
There are no moving parts and each tank assembly is just two plates
that mount to two tank ribs with a wire connecting them together and to
a BNC connector. If you attach the wires securely and pro-seal them so
they cannot flex, it should be just about bullet-proof.
I have installed the capacitive sender in my tanks and plan to build a
small capacitive to voltage converter that will mount at the wing root
where the connection comes out of the tank (I have it designed and
"electronically" prototyped already). This will allow me to use any
gauge or electronics that can use a 0-5V signal. The parts are not
expensive and I may get a PCB made. In fact, if there is interest, I
could get lots made and sell the assembly (or the PCB or a kit for those
who like soldering).
The capacitive gauge is much more accurate than the float and has much
less "dead" area. The float would hit bottom before the gas is gone and
hit the top before it is really full (although I believe there are stops
to prevent it from actually hitting anything).
On the other hand, if you do not plan to use the gauge for anything but
gross leaks there is no real reason to use one system over the other.
Dick Tasker, 90573
Don Alexander wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: Don Alexander <don_shirley@propjock.com>
>
>
>I'm getting ready to place my order for the wings and again there is a choice
to be made. This time its "just" the type of fuel sender, which as I understand
doesn't require one to put their manhood on the line like those decision like
which end of the plane gets the third wheel or what kind of primer you're using,
if any.
>
>My understanding is the capacitance type sender works with ONE gauge (the lady
at Van's said it was $300) and is a bear to replace should it fail. On the plus
side it's very accurate (which I'm not really sure actually is a plus since
I don't put much reliance on the gauges of my Cherokee now and don't plan to
in the future - relying instead on a conservative estimate of burn rate and using
the gauges to detect large leaks). The other choice is a float gauge sender
which isn't as accurate but is cheap, reliable, and more easily repaired/replaced
should that be necessary.
>
>Is there anything else I need to know before making this decision? Is there another
option that's better that Van's doesn't support?
>
>Don
>
>90702 -empennage
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman@txucom.net>
Don,
Just one thing to say that made my mind up. $100.00 for floats and gages. It
would have been almost 3 grand to light up the set of microvision senders
after I decided against the Microvision panel.
Regards
Larry Perryman
PS At empty, you have about 1 gallon of gas left or less. They will hit the
bottom skin but clear the top. I fly by time anyway so not a problem. Three
hours and pit stop.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Alexander" <don_shirley@propjock.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Fuel sender
> --> RV9-List message posted by: Don Alexander <don_shirley@propjock.com>
>
>
> I'm getting ready to place my order for the wings and again there is a
choice to be made. This time its "just" the type of fuel sender, which as I
understand doesn't require one to put their manhood on the line like those
decision like which end of the plane gets the third wheel or what kind of
primer you're using, if any.
>
> My understanding is the capacitance type sender works with ONE gauge (the
lady at Van's said it was $300) and is a bear to replace should it fail. On
the plus side it's very accurate (which I'm not really sure actually is a
plus since I don't put much reliance on the gauges of my Cherokee now and
don't plan to in the future - relying instead on a conservative estimate of
burn rate and using the gauges to detect large leaks). The other choice is
a float gauge sender which isn't as accurate but is cheap, reliable, and
more easily repaired/replaced should that be necessary.
>
> Is there anything else I need to know before making this decision? Is
there another option that's better that Van's doesn't support?
>
> Don
>
> 90702 -empennage
>
>
Message 10
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--> RV9-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Anyone know what the V speeds for the RV9A are? Such as Maximum Structural
Cruising and Never Exceed speeds?
Thanks,
Ned
Message 11
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
What is the problem with calibrating the capacitance system? Is there
interaction with the zero and span settings? Or what?
As mentioned earlier, I plan to build my own signal conditioners for the
capacitive system and want to do it right. I think my current design
should be easy to calibrate - set zero with the tanks empty and then set
full scale with them full. Is the calibration you are talking about the
intermediate values (which some electronic instruments can use to
provide more accurate calibration for partially full tanks)?
Dick Tasker, 90573
P.S. Congratulations on your first (and no doubt several more by now)!
I am jealous - I am still working and you are flying :-) .
Do not archive
Andy Karmy wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
>
>Well it is very accurate... But the downside is you have to calibrate it. It takes
a bunch of fiddeling around with it to get it calibrated right (mine is still
a work in progress) but is very accurate once finished.
>
>If it works when you first try it, I find it hard to imagine that it would break
in the future. There are no moving parts as it's simply 2 plates in the tank
bolted to the baffle ribs.
>
>I do really like the EI fuel gauge in terms of presentation in the cockpit.
>
>So as with all of these things it's up to what you want!
>
>- Andy Karmy
> RV9A Seattle WA
> 12hr TT!
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>
>
>>My understanding is the capacitance type sender works with ONE gauge (the lady
at Van's said it was $300) and is a bear to replace should it fail. On the
plus side it's very accurate (which I'm not really sure
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman@txucom.net>
Max cruse at gross is 195. If I remember, the Vne listed in the article in
the RVator last fall was a bit over 200.
If you can find the RVator that went over the 9 wing design, they cover some
of the high end numbers.
Stall solo with flaps is about 46mph, w/o flaps about 50. Very gentle. I was
doing slow flight with flaps at 48mph the other day.
Vfe is about 95 - 100mph
Regards
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: <315@cox.net>
Subject: RV9-List: V Speeds
> --> RV9-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
>
> Anyone know what the V speeds for the RV9A are? Such as Maximum
Structural
> Cruising and Never Exceed speeds?
> Thanks,
> Ned
>
>
Message 13
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "guy" <gvotuc@direcway.com>
Oh my...here we go again. (smile) =0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
=0D
From: rv9-list@matronics.com=0D
Subject: RV9-List: Fuel sender=0D
=0D
--> RV9-List message posted by: Don Alexander <don_shirley@propjock.com>=0D
=0D
=0D
I'm getting ready to place my order for the wings and again there is a
choice to be made. This time its "just" the type of fuel sender, which as I
understand doesn't require one to put their manhood on the line like those
decision like which end of the plane gets the third wheel or what kind of
primer you're using, if any. =0D
=0D
My understanding is the capacitance type sender works with ONE gauge (the
lady at Van's said it was $300) and is a bear to replace should it fail. On
the plus side it's very accurate (which I'm not really sure actually is a
plus since I don't put much reliance on the gauges of my Cherokee now and
don't plan to in the future - relying instead on a conservative estimate of
burn rate and using the gauges to detect large leaks). The other choice is a
float gauge sender which isn't as accurate but is cheap, reliable, and more
easily repaired/replaced should that be necessary.=0D
=0D
Is there anything else I need to know before making this decision? Is there
another option that's better that Van's doesn't support?=0D
=0D
Don =0D
=0D
90702 -empennage=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=2E
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Top Skin Riveting |
--> RV9-List message posted by: KDMIGAS@aol.com
If you have acess to a cherry max puller, try using #3214-2-4 cm rivets. I
got some from Aero Fasteners in socal, and they really work great in tight
spots Dick Migas Wings done
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Numbers |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
WOW Bryan,
You want my completed test flight documentation... Well it's a bit early for all
of these numbers, but I can give you what I've found thus far... See below.
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>If any of you with finished RV-9A's could post some actual numbers
First, mine is an Aerosport 0-320-D2A with Sensenish 79" cruise prop
>1. Can you actually fly the airplane level into the yellow, and if so
>at what altitude does this fall below the yellow? (75% power)
Yes, and don't know...
>2. Can you list expected True Airspeeds for various altitudes?
With only the main gear leg & wheel pants on (no nosegear hardware on yet) I was
seeing 180TAS at 8000ft. I was turning 2600RPM wide open. Groundspeed at the
time was nearing 190!
>3.What are actual fuel burns for various altitudes and power settings?
I have not done much leaning yet as I am just passing 10 hours TT on a new engine.
I am buring about 11.5 GPH most of the time.
>4.What is highest you have flown in your nine and how did it
>feel/respond to thin air?
8000 felt just like 1000 (except I was going faster and it felt slower!)
>5. What airspeed did you true out at at this highest altitude?
See above
>6.Have you flown with other RV's on trips, etc. and if so could you
>stay up with them?
Not yet, but from what I am seeing I will be out there with the 0-360 crowd and
keeping up on less gas!
>7.What approach speed do you find works best for you?
Assuming a light pattern...
I enter the 45 at 160-180, by downwind slow to 120, abeam the numbers pull the
power all the way off and slow to 70, drop half flaps. Turn base at 70, drop full
flaps, turn final and slow to 65, poweroff with plenty of speed to flair a
beautiful landing! You could go slower than this as you get more comfortable
with it. Stall is 45mph with full flaps and 55mph clean.
>Thanks. The info we get on the factory website is great and from what
>all the builders who have finished and are flying say their planes
>meet Van's claims. I guess what has me curious is that if the factory
>sees 187 true at 8000' (I'm making this up, but sounds close) what is
>it at 10,000, 12,000, 4,000, etc.
I think all of the factory published numbers are fairly easy to attain with the
0-320 setup.
>yes I should spend more time building and less time worrying about
>speed, but the curiosity has me
I remember it well wishing for more data!
Most of my 10 hours thus far are with no wheel pants or gear leg fairings. I was
seeing 160mph nice and steady at 2450ish RPM. That's at 3000ft and below.
- Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA
12 hours and counting...
I sure wish the weather would clear up again
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