Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:02 AM - prop pitch (Welch, Ivo)
2. 06:20 AM - Re: prop pitch (Larry PERRYMAN)
3. 07:25 AM - Re: prop pitch (Jones)
4. 07:27 AM - Re: prop pitch (Ed Zercher)
5. 07:29 AM - Re: prop pitch (Andy Karmy)
6. 07:55 AM - Re: prop pitch (Andy Karmy)
7. 08:17 AM - Re: prop pitch (Gary)
8. 10:41 AM - Trim (Steve Sampson)
9. 11:28 AM - Re: Trim (Andy Karmy)
10. 01:45 PM - Tip Up release mechanism interference (Rick Smith)
11. 02:22 PM - Re: Trim (Steve Sampson)
12. 03:07 PM - Plumbing (Roy Taylor)
13. 03:35 PM - Re: Hole in Skin Resolved (Ted Strand)
14. 03:57 PM - Wing Help (Jim Hosie)
15. 03:57 PM - Elevator to HS (Jim Hosie)
16. 04:16 PM - Re: Tip Up release mechanism interference (Miller Robert)
17. 04:59 PM - Re: Wing Help (Richard Tasker)
18. 05:10 PM - Re: Wing Help (Curt Hoffman)
19. 08:27 PM - Re: Tip Up release mechanism interference (Gary)
20. 08:37 PM - Re: Wing Help (Gary)
21. 08:37 PM - Re: Elevator to HS (Gary)
Message 1
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Welch, Ivo" <ivo.welch@yale.edu>
hi: I want to order a sensenich propeller for my RV-9A. (My Catto prop is
nice, but really does not allow me to idle the prop. It has too little
inertia
because it is too lightweight.)
now, the standard prop is 79 pitch. I would like some faster cruise speed.
usually, this would mean an 81 or 83 pitch. alas, the Vans guys have never
tried this, and are telling me that this could mean that the propeller is
overpitched, so that cruise goes down rather than up.
has anyone tried a pitch on an RV-9A that is >79? experiences would be
appreciated.
sincerely,
/iaw
Message 2
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03/20/2003 03:17:28 PM,
Serialize complete at 03/20/2003 03:17:28 PM
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman@atofina.com>
Ivo,
What cruise speeds were you seeing with the wood prop? I have been curious
how it would perform with a wood prop. I am currently flying a Quinti
electric adjustable on my Subaru powered 9 and seeing cruse speeds in the
160 - 170 range.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
"Welch, Ivo" <ivo.welch@yale.edu>
Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
03/20/2003 07:00 AM
Please respond to rv9-list
To: rv9-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV9-List: prop pitch
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Welch, Ivo" <ivo.welch@yale.edu>
hi: I want to order a sensenich propeller for my RV-9A. (My Catto prop
is
nice, but really does not allow me to idle the prop. It has too little
inertia
because it is too lightweight.)
now, the standard prop is 79 pitch. I would like some faster cruise
speed.
usually, this would mean an 81 or 83 pitch. alas, the Vans guys have
never
tried this, and are telling me that this could mean that the propeller is
overpitched, so that cruise goes down rather than up.
has anyone tried a pitch on an RV-9A that is >79? experiences would be
appreciated.
sincerely,
/iaw
Message 3
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Jones" <esnj@granbury.com>
A lot of this decision depends on the engine that you are using. I am in
the early stages of testing my 9A which has a 150 HP O-320-E2D and a
Sensenich 70CM7S9-0-77 prop. I think that this 77 inch pitch prop will
certainly be all of the pitch I need with this engine. It has a static full
throttle RPM of about 2100. There is a lot of right rudder required on
take-off due to torque and "P-factor". The airplane doesn't want to
slowdown on landing with 1000 RPM with no wheel or gear leg fairings. I have
just installed the fairings and will start performance tests in the next day
or so.
Dick Jones
----- Original Message -----
From: "Welch, Ivo" <ivo.welch@yale.edu>
Subject: RV9-List: prop pitch
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Welch, Ivo" <ivo.welch@yale.edu>
>
>
> hi: I want to order a sensenich propeller for my RV-9A. (My Catto prop
is
> nice, but really does not allow me to idle the prop. It has too little
> inertia
> because it is too lightweight.)
>
> now, the standard prop is 79 pitch. I would like some faster cruise
speed.
> usually, this would mean an 81 or 83 pitch. alas, the Vans guys have
never
> tried this, and are telling me that this could mean that the propeller is
> overpitched, so that cruise goes down rather than up.
>
> has anyone tried a pitch on an RV-9A that is >79? experiences would be
> appreciated.
>
> sincerely,
>
> /iaw
>
>
Message 4
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Ed Zercher" <ez@sensenich.com>
Hello Ivo,
Well, obviously we are still collecting data on this, but I have had 1
customer go up from his 79 to an 80 and was quite happy with it. Everyone
else has been holding steady with the 79. There is not a big difference
between the two so I so no reason why you couldn't consider the 80 pitch
right now. Keep in mind that when we call out a 79 pitch as standard, it is
already leaning towards cruise because a) everyone wants to go fast and b)
the RV-9A jumps off the ground anyway.
Why not try the 80 and see how you like it. The pitch can always be changed
down the road. I would however not change the pitch until you try it during
those high density altitude days of summer.
If you have any other questions or problems, please let me know. I'm looking
forward to working with you!
Ed
Message 5
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Hi Ivo,
You are flying 944KS right? I live about 30 min from Kevin that built it originally...
So the main question is, what's your definition of cruise and what speeds are you
looking for?
I have the Vans recomended 79 inch and find that I can overspeed it at low altitude,
but up higher it's no problem. So at 3000ft I cruise at 160mph ish with
2400rpm, but at 8000 - 13.5 I can run wide open without hitting the 2600rpm limit
and get 180TAS. I know Sam B has a higher pitch and reports that he can go
wide open at lower altitudes.
So define you cruise parameters and then look at the options.
FYI with the 79 I get 1700fpm solo in climb at sea level and 700fpm at 13Kft!
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Welch, Ivo" <ivo.welch@yale.edu>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Welch, Ivo" <ivo.welch@yale.edu>
>
>
>hi: I want to order a sensenich propeller for my RV-9A. (My Catto prop is
>nice, but really does not allow me to idle the prop. It has too little
>inertia
>because it is too lightweight.)
>
>now, the standard prop is 79 pitch. I would like some faster cruise speed.
>usually, this would mean an 81 or 83 pitch. alas, the Vans guys have never
>tried this, and are telling me that this could mean that the propeller is
>overpitched, so that cruise goes down rather than up.
>
>has anyone tried a pitch on an RV-9A that is >79? experiences would be
>appreciated.
>
>sincerely,
>
>/iaw
>
>
Message 6
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
I had this exact same problem, made for nice greaser landings as it floated forever...
I lowered the idle RPM to 500 and WOW now you actually can desend to the
runway when you pull the throttle!
Try it, you'll like it.
- Andy (23.5 TT!)
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Jones" <esnj@granbury.com>
>The airplane doesn't want to
>slowdown on landing with 1000 RPM with no wheel or gear leg fairings.
>Dick Jones
Message 7
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary" <rv9er@3rivers.net>
Wow, Andy! 700fpm at 13 thousand. That is just plain damn good.
I would be reluctant to try to improve on damn good, unless I could afford to just
experiment. I'd spend the money on gas!
Gary
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Karmy
..............FYI with the 79 I get 1700fpm solo in climb at sea level and 700fpm
at 13Kft!
- Andy
---
Version: 6.0.462 / Virus Database: 261 - Release Date: 3/14/03
Message 8
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
I wonder if I have made a mistake? I have slightly more down travel on the
trim tab than up, ie more nose up. Is this correct? There was a comment on
this recently which I have lost.
To those that have completed. Does the trim ever achieve its limits or is
there more range than needed?
Thanks, Steve
#90360
N Yorks., UK
About to start finish kit.
Message 9
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Per Scott McDaniels you should have more up than down, and in practice you will
hardly ever need much down trim (ie the trim tab moving up!) :)
Also I did runaway trim testing and you can still fly with the electric trim at
either end of the limits, however it takes 2 hands on the stick to hold it level
with either push or pull. Quite exciting I must say! I suppose you could fly
that way for a few min and get through a landing, but it wouldn't be fun.
So, to setup, just run the trim servo a bit down first, then set the link to neutral
so you get more up push, then try it through the ranges and see what you
get.
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>I wonder if I have made a mistake? I have slightly more down travel on the
>trim tab than up, ie more nose up. Is this correct? There was a comment on
>this recently which I have lost.
>
>To those that have completed. Does the trim ever achieve its limits or is
>there more range than needed?
>
>Thanks, Steve
>#90360
>N Yorks., UK
>About to start finish kit.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Tip Up release mechanism interference |
03/20/2003 14:43:42,
Serialize complete at 03/20/2003 14:43:42
--> RV9-List message posted by: Rick Smith <ricks3@us.ibm.com>
Greetings Everyone,
Just got my tail kit and am close to ordering a 9a QB but am rethinking
the decision to go with a tip up because of the awkward canopy jettison
mechanism.
having built and flown a RV-6 with a slider, my -9 will be a trike with
the tip up for visibility, ease of mantenance and better sealing that is
possible.
But that darn canopy release mechanism, the unsightly handle sticking out
of the panel, and the structure to support it is in the way of a central
avionics stack and after looking at the plans cannot see an elegant way to
operate the release.
Has anyone worked out a good solution?
Something using a push pull cable or bellcranks to move the handle to
under the dash may work okay. Wish I had a chance to see one.
One other thing....now that the tip up canopys have dual gas springs the
canopy jettison feature would seem to be kind of useless. It would be
ugly indeed to try and jettison but have it held on in front with those
gas struts.
Anyone else thinking along these lines?
Thanks Guys,
Rick
Message 11
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Andy - thanks for that. It sounds as though I have erred in the right
direction. Yes, runaway trim does not sound like a barrel of laughs! Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Karmy
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Trim
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Per Scott McDaniels you should have more up than down, and in practice you
will hardly ever need much down trim (ie the trim tab moving up!) :)
Also I did runaway trim testing and you can still fly with the electric trim
at either end of the limits, however it takes 2 hands on the stick to hold
it level with either push or pull. Quite exciting I must say! I suppose you
could fly that way for a few min and get through a landing, but it wouldn't
be fun.
So, to setup, just run the trim servo a bit down first, then set the link to
neutral so you get more up push, then try it through the ranges and see what
you get.
- Andy
Message 12
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Roy Taylor" <Royandjilly@btinternet.com>
I'm going to re-do the fuel pipe from the pump to the Andair gascolator on the
bottom left of firewall as you look back at it. I'd be interested to know how
you managed the bends in the 3/8" tube and where you put them. I can't get a very
tight radius in the tube, and the minimum distance between 90* fittings is
limited by the length of tube you need to get the flaring tool on....are you
with me? I've either got a lot of pipe to get hot on the firewall side, or too
much in front of the pedals!
Roy, Somerset, UK.
(thinking of our lads in the Gulf)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Hole in Skin Resolved |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Ted Strand" <tstrand@strandcentral.com>
I must confess I did the same exact thing with the rudder. I also had a
drill bit recently snap that caused the chuck to make a large hole in
the elevator. The money wasn't as bad as the frustration and time...
I have learned a lot from the experiences. I can say that things go
together much easier the second time.
-Ted Strand-
Finishing Empennage
Clearwater, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: DThomas773@aol.com [mailto:DThomas773@aol.com]
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Hole in Skin Resolved
--> RV9-List message posted by: DThomas773@aol.com
Hi Guys,
When I was back riveting my rudder skin to the stiffeners I riveted
right off
the the back plate and sliced a big cut in the skin. $70 bucks, a 5 day
delay while new parts were being delivered and I learned to more
careull. For
awhile at least.
Dennis Thomas
Fuselage
Message 14
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4@attbi.com>
Working on the right wing (first one I'm doing) the w-905 bottom wing
skin lines up 100% with the w- 911 and w-912 ribs except the 7th hole
from the trailing edge in w-905 with the four outboard w-912 ribs.
I looked at all wing skins and none will line up with 912 bottom flange.
(At the 7th hole from the trailing edge.)
The 7th hole in the W-912 bottom flange seems to off set and I can't
figure out why.
Has anyone else encountered this?
Jim
Jim Hosie
916-730-8764
N-9SU
Wings, Folsom California
Message 15
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4@attbi.com>
Hi,
I'm fitting the elevators to the HS.
With the bearing rods in place and adjusted out to 1 27/32 it all lines
up very well, I think?
The elevator in the down position the elevators horns hit the spar on
the HS, makes sense and no rubbing or binding anywhere.
However moving the elevator upward there is no stop and eventually the
upper skin on the elevator hit the upper edge of the HS skin/span seam.
My question is how far upward is the elevator supposed to go? Is there
a max angle?
I think I'm fine, but I would like a second opinion before drilling that
last hole in the horn.
Thanks
Jim
N-9SU
Wings ship on 1/20/03, yes!
Jim Hosie
916-730-8764
N-9SU
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Tip Up release mechanism interference |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Miller Robert <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
> Has anyone worked out a good solution?
> Something using a push pull cable or bellcranks to move the handle to
> under the dash may work okay. Wish I had a chance to see one.
>
Someone did exactly this.
There are photos on the web. Looked pretty good, and I hope to do something
similar.
Problem is... I cannot remember, and have not again found, the website.
Definitely RV site... but, Matronics, Yahoo?
If anyone knows who's site ths was on...
Robert
Rick Smith wrote:
> --> RV9-List message posted by: Rick Smith <ricks3@us.ibm.com>
>
> Greetings Everyone,
> Just got my tail kit and am close to ordering a 9a QB but am rethinking
> the decision to go with a tip up because of the awkward canopy jettison
> mechanism.
> having built and flown a RV-6 with a slider, my -9 will be a trike with
> the tip up for visibility, ease of mantenance and better sealing that is
> possible.
> But that darn canopy release mechanism, the unsightly handle sticking out
> of the panel, and the structure to support it is in the way of a central
> avionics stack and after looking at the plans cannot see an elegant way to
> operate the release.
> Has anyone worked out a good solution?
> Something using a push pull cable or bellcranks to move the handle to
> under the dash may work okay. Wish I had a chance to see one.
> One other thing....now that the tip up canopys have dual gas springs the
> canopy jettison feature would seem to be kind of useless. It would be
> ugly indeed to try and jettison but have it held on in front with those
> gas struts.
> Anyone else thinking along these lines?
> Thanks Guys,
> Rick
Message 17
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--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Yes, and Van's knows about it already. The ribs were punched wrong.
They said to ignore the existing holes in the ribs and just drill a new
hole in the ribs using the existing skin hole. And, yes, they know they
are really close.
Dick Tasker, 90573
Left wing
Jim Hosie wrote:
<snip>
>Has anyone else encountered this?
>
>
>Jim
>
>Jim Hosie
>916-730-8764
>N-9SU
>Wings, Folsom California
>
>
>
Message 18
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
There have been several comments on this problem from other builders. I had
the exact same issue with a single hole not lining up on I think 4 ribs on
the bottom skin. It appears that the computer hole puncher hiccuped when
doing that hole. I told Vans about two years ago when I first assembled my
wings but I guess he likes having everyone do the same fix. I called them
and they said to use the skin as the correct hole and drill a new one into
the ribs. Leave the extra empty hole in the rib alone. So that is what I
did.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4@attbi.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Wing Help
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4@attbi.com>
>
> Working on the right wing (first one I'm doing) the w-905 bottom wing
> skin lines up 100% with the w- 911 and w-912 ribs except the 7th hole
> from the trailing edge in w-905 with the four outboard w-912 ribs.
>
> I looked at all wing skins and none will line up with 912 bottom flange.
> (At the 7th hole from the trailing edge.)
> The 7th hole in the W-912 bottom flange seems to off set and I can't
> figure out why.
>
>
> Has anyone else encountered this?
>
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Hosie
> 916-730-8764
> N-9SU
> Wings, Folsom California
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Tip Up release mechanism interference |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary" <rv9er@3rivers.net>
We have discussed this several times. Check the archives for this list, and the
RV-9 list. Or go to http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rv9er@3rivers.net.10.12.2002/index.html
for the photo share pics.
I can't take photos of mine anymore, because it is all covered up. You just put
the existing handle up inside the tube from below, and throw the bellcrank away.
You can safety the handle to keep it secure.
Or use Dan Checkoway's method, and put AN4 bolts in for hinge pins. If you need
to get the canopy off later, you can crawl under and get the bolts out.
It is generally believed by Van's and other individuals that jettisoning a canopy
on a side-by side in flight would not be possible, or would take your face
with it if it did go.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Miller Robert
To: rv9-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Tip Up release mechanism interference
--> RV9-List message posted by: Miller Robert <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
> Has anyone worked out a good solution?
> Something using a push pull cable or bellcranks to move the handle to
> under the dash may work okay. Wish I had a chance to see one.
>
Someone did exactly this.
There are photos on the web. Looked pretty good, and I hope to do something
similar.
Problem is... I cannot remember, and have not again found, the website.
Definitely RV site... but, Matronics, Yahoo?
If anyone knows who's site ths was on...
Robert
Rick Smith wrote:
> --> RV9-List message posted by: Rick Smith <ricks3@us.ibm.com>
>
> Greetings Everyone,
> Just got my tail kit and am close to ordering a 9a QB but am rethinking
> the decision to go with a tip up because of the awkward canopy jettison
> mechanism.
> having built and flown a RV-6 with a slider, my -9 will be a trike with
> the tip up for visibility, ease of mantenance and better sealing that is
> possible.
> But that darn canopy release mechanism, the unsightly handle sticking out
> of the panel, and the structure to support it is in the way of a central
> avionics stack and after looking at the plans cannot see an elegant way to
> operate the release.
> Has anyone worked out a good solution?
> Something using a push pull cable or bellcranks to move the handle to
> under the dash may work okay. Wish I had a chance to see one.
> One other thing....now that the tip up canopys have dual gas springs the
> canopy jettison feature would seem to be kind of useless. It would be
> ugly indeed to try and jettison but have it held on in front with those
> gas struts.
> Anyone else thinking along these lines?
> Thanks Guys,
> Rick
---
Version: 6.0.462 / Virus Database: 261 - Release Date: 3/14/03
Message 20
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary" <rv9er@3rivers.net>
Yes. Van's screwed up that one hole in those ribs. You should be able to just
ignore it, and match drill one in the rib to match the one in the skin. Watch
your edge distance. Check with Van's to be sure, then tell them to fix it for
the guys down the line.
What is your kit number? I'd have thought they'd fixed this by now. Mine was
#90263. My wings have been done for a year and a half, and I talked to them about
it then.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Hosie
To: rv9-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 4:56 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Wing Help
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4@attbi.com>
Working on the right wing (first one I'm doing) the w-905 bottom wing
skin lines up 100% with the w- 911 and w-912 ribs except the 7th hole
from the trailing edge in w-905 with the four outboard w-912 ribs.
I looked at all wing skins and none will line up with 912 bottom flange.
(At the 7th hole from the trailing edge.)
The 7th hole in the W-912 bottom flange seems to off set and I can't
figure out why.
Has anyone else encountered this?
Jim
Jim Hosie
916-730-8764
N-9SU
Wings, Folsom California
---
Version: 6.0.462 / Virus Database: 261 - Release Date: 3/14/03
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator to HS |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary" <rv9er@3rivers.net>
Wait for your fuselage. Or read the preview plans (What! You didn't get them?!!).
There are both up and down elevator stops in the fuselage.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Hosie
To: rv9-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 4:56 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Elevator to HS
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4@attbi.com>
Hi,
I'm fitting the elevators to the HS.
With the bearing rods in place and adjusted out to 1 27/32 it all lines
up very well, I think?
The elevator in the down position the elevators horns hit the spar on
the HS, makes sense and no rubbing or binding anywhere.
However moving the elevator upward there is no stop and eventually the
upper skin on the elevator hit the upper edge of the HS skin/span seam.
My question is how far upward is the elevator supposed to go? Is there
a max angle?
I think I'm fine, but I would like a second opinion before drilling that
last hole in the horn.
Thanks
Jim
N-9SU
Wings ship on 1/20/03, yes!
Jim Hosie
916-730-8764
N-9SU
---
Version: 6.0.462 / Virus Database: 261 - Release Date: 3/14/03
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