Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:15 AM - Re: Wing jig question (david edgemon)
2. 07:39 AM - leading edge installation (JOHN KERR)
3. 08:23 AM - Re: leading edge installation (BFlood@sauer-danfoss.com)
4. 10:17 AM - Re: Wing Jig Question (fcs@jlc.net)
5. 10:18 AM - Re: leading edge installation (fcs@jlc.net)
6. 11:11 AM - horizontal stabilizer riveting (Bruce Anthony)
7. 11:36 AM - Re: horizontal stabilizer riveting (Ken Moak)
8. 12:17 PM - Re: leading edge installation (Gary)
9. 02:31 PM - Re: leading edge installation (Curt Hoffman)
10. 02:46 PM - Re: Wing Jig Question (Curt Hoffman)
11. 04:39 PM - Re: leading edge installation (Tom Lutgring)
12. 05:33 PM - Re: Wing Help (Mike Duiven)
13. 05:36 PM - Re: leading edge installation (John Oliveira)
14. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Wing jig question (John Oliveira)
15. 08:20 PM - FW: Wing Jig Question (Todd Houg)
16. 08:24 PM - Re: Wing Jig Question (DThomas773@aol.com)
17. 08:32 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer riveting (DThomas773@aol.com)
18. 08:33 PM - Re: leading edge installation (Todd Houg)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wing jig question |
--> RV9-List message posted by: david edgemon <dedgemon@knology.net>
Ken,
Since I just finished the wings I'll give you my two cents worth.
Wings really pretty light. My wife and I could lift it really easily.
Maybe 50 lbs or so a panel. (just a guess).
Put the wings as far apart as you need to get a cordless drill (screwdriver)
and screws between the wings. Don't ask how I know this.
Put them as low as you can and still assemble the rear spar and hinges.
Maybe 6 inches off the floor for the rear spar would be could. This will
make working on the tanks, landing lights, etc... easier. Plus at some
point you'll want to flight them and work on the rear spar area for hinges.
Definately do both at once. It's much faster to do the second set of
operations
since you just did the first ones.
Have fun.
>
>
>>1. About how heavy is a wing?
>>
>>2. About how far off the uprights do you place the
>>spar? I am making it movable much like Todd Houg
>>shows on his WEB site. I have a cross member running
>>between my uprights and need to determine how much
>>space I need to get between the wing and the cross
>>member.
>>
>>3. About how high off the floor did you put the spar?
>> I know this would depend on the person, but a general
>>idea would be nice
>>
>>4. I would like to hang both wings at once, any
>>comments?
>>
>>
>>
>>
--
David Edgemon
Summit Research Corp.
Huntsville Al.
_______
|
\__________________(*)__________________/
"NN"
Huntsville Soaring Club
Message 2
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| Subject: | leading edge installation |
--> RV9-List message posted by: JOHN KERR <kerrjohna@comcast.net>
for those of you who have finished attaching the leading edge to the
spar...how does one with out and extra elbow get to the rivets
attaching the 4th rib from the tip to the spar. It is the one between
the most inboard lightening (small)hole and the aileron bellcrank.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge installation |
03/24/2003 10:21:25 AM
--> RV9-List message posted by: BFlood@Sauer-Danfoss.com
Very Carefully.
JOHN KERR
<kerrjohna@comcast.net> To: rv9 -list <rv9-list@matronics.com>
Sent by: cc:
owner-rv9-list-server@mat Subject: RV9-List: leading
edge installation
ronics.com
03/24/2003 09:34 AM
Please respond to
rv9-list
--> RV9-List message posted by: JOHN KERR <kerrjohna@comcast.net>
for those of you who have finished attaching the leading edge to the
spar...how does one with out and extra elbow get to the rivets
attaching the 4th rib from the tip to the spar. It is the one between
the most inboard lightening (small)hole and the aileron bellcrank.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Jig Question |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "fcs@jlc.net" <fcs@jlc.net>
I agree with everything Larry says, except I would build BOTH wings at the
same time. This is easily done if you build your jig so it carries both
wings and leaves some room in between. The wings are light enough that I
could lift them off and turn them around when working on the opposite side.
The reason I say to do both, is for project enthusiasm. Finishing a big
project like a wing, then facing doing it all over for the other one, can
really knock the wind out of your sails. Doing them both at once means
less tool and mindset changing. And when you're done, you're DONE!
I don't have a really good photo of the jig I used, but all I did was
modify the "H" jig used to build the empennage by adding a couple of
cross-members to hang the wing spars on. The following photo will give you
the general idea. I continued to use this jig all the way through building
and aligning the control surfaces, which I also built upright, attached to
the hinges.
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/wing/w_rearspar.jpg
Message 5
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| Subject: | leading edge installation |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "fcs@jlc.net" <fcs@jlc.net>
That's a favorite one. Everyone who has done this, will recall the nearly
bloody red rings around their forearms. Basically you have to develop that
third elbow you described, or if your arms are just too big, enlist a
competent smaller person to help.
Message 6
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| Subject: | horizontal stabilizer riveting |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Bruce Anthony" <bruce.anthony@holidaycompanies.com>
Need some advice on riveting a nose rib in a 9A horizontal stabilizer. I put in
the end ribs first to give the stabilizer some form, but now that I'm trying
to rivet in the middle rib, I get a depression deformation in the skin right
at the rib. How do I avoid this? Should I drill out the end ribs and do the
middle one first? Would clecoing in the forward spar help? Thanks.
Bruce Anthony
RV9A Horizontal Stabilizer
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: horizontal stabilizer riveting |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Ken Moak <ken_moak@yahoo.com>
Bruce
Welcome to the club.
When the spar is out it can take some odd shapes. A
depression gave me fits. There is a real good
explanation in the archives by I think John Williams,
may be on the Yahoo groups.
I drilled and worked on one side of mine so much I had
to go to oversized rivets so be careful. I don't
remember putting in the end ribs that soon. Some
things that helped for me
1. Put the wood clamps close to the center rib.
2. Start at the nose.
3. Do the top first. If it is going to act up try and
get it on the bottom.
4. I made shims for my worse side, .040 (i think) and
cover all but the most forward hole.
Never got mine looking as good as I would like. Tech
guy did not think it was a problem. If I was to do it
again I think it would be better but I was about to
start buying a skins so I decided I could live with
it.
Ken
90608
Starting Wings Today!
--- Bruce Anthony <bruce.anthony@holidaycompanies.com>
wrote:
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bruce Anthony"
> <bruce.anthony@holidaycompanies.com>
>
> Need some advice on riveting a nose rib in a 9A
> horizontal stabilizer. I put in the end ribs first
> to give the stabilizer some form, but now that I'm
> trying to rivet in the middle rib, I get a
> depression deformation in the skin right at the
> rib. How do I avoid this? Should I drill out the
> end ribs and do the middle one first? Would
> clecoing in the forward spar help? Thanks.
>
>
> Bruce Anthony
> RV9A Horizontal Stabilizer
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://platinum.yahoo.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge installation |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary" <rv9er@3rivers.net>
Not quite all of us. Some of us used blind rivets in a few of those holes, and
still have the use of our arms.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: fcs@jlc.net
To: rv9-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: RV9-List: leading edge installation
--> RV9-List message posted by: "fcs@jlc.net" <fcs@jlc.net>
That's a favorite one. Everyone who has done this, will recall the nearly
bloody red rings around their forearms. Basically you have to develop that
third elbow you described, or if your arms are just too big, enlist a
competent smaller person to help.
---
Version: 6.0.462 / Virus Database: 261 - Release Date: 3/15/03
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge installation |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
There was some discussion a while back on use of blind rivets, special
bucking bars, etc. I even talked to Vans to get their thoughts on use of
blind rivets and such. Their advise was basically "Just Do it". So I did.
Fortunately I had good help on the gun while I held my trustly little Avery
bar which is about 3" x 1" x2". Ultimately is is doable and other than a few
red marks on your arms, once you get in there all the rivets are reachable.
I am average size and my arms fit ok.
I couldn't see all the rivets I was bucking but I could feel them. I started
with the ones I could see so we got into a rythem on how long to take. It
actually came out quite good and I didn't use any blind rivets.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN KERR" <kerrjohna@comcast.net>
Subject: RV9-List: leading edge installation
> --> RV9-List message posted by: JOHN KERR <kerrjohna@comcast.net>
>
>
> for those of you who have finished attaching the leading edge to the
> spar...how does one with out and extra elbow get to the rivets
> attaching the 4th rib from the tip to the spar. It is the one between
> the most inboard lightening (small)hole and the aileron bellcrank.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Jig Question |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
Given the responses this seems to be an area of personal preference. So
here's mine:
I built both wings at once with the jigs set up end to end- I have a long
basement. I left room between the two jigs to walk between but barely.
I set up the supports so that the spar was about neck high. I could then
mount my ailerons and flaps while still in the jig. The only problem I ran
into was I had one set or uprights slightly closer together than the other
and when I mounted the flap the end couldn't quite clear the upright. Not a
big deal but annoying. I would make the uprights as far apart as I could
which would be about 3" less than the length of the spar.
Making both at the same time was definitely a plus. Many jobs were good to
do together. Some are boring enough that I was afraid if I didn't do them at
the same time I'd never get up the energy to do the other. Having said that
it was a little hard to get the energy up to go to the basement when I knew
all I would be doing is deburring holes for the next 6 hours.
My wife and I moved the wings off the jog and laid down on the workbench and
ultimately into my roll around support. I agree they aren't all that heavy
but they sure are big.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Moak" <ken_moak@yahoo.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Wing Jig Question
> --> RV9-List message posted by: Ken Moak <ken_moak@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks to everyone that helped me with the empennage.
> A Technical Counselor (Jim) came out last week and the
> first milestone has happened. No rework, so I closed
> things up. Thanks to all the advise, either direct or
> in the archives.
>
> Now I'm starting the Wing and have a couple of
> questions.
>
> 1. About how heavy is a wing?
>
> 2. About how far off the uprights do you place the
> spar? I am making it movable much like Todd Houg
> shows on his WEB site. I have a cross member running
> between my uprights and need to determine how much
> space I need to get between the wing and the cross
> member.
>
> 3. About how high off the floor did you put the spar?
> I know this would depend on the person, but a general
> idea would be nice
>
> 4. I would like to hang both wings at once, any
> comments?
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Ken
> 90608
> Building the wing jig
>
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge installation |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Tom Lutgring <rv9abldr@juno.com>
John ,
Yeah those leading edge to spar rivets are tricky. The one you describe
has a small lightening hole next to it. The four center rivets can easily
be squeezed with a Tatco squeezer with 3" jaws. I would imagine most
brands would work. I squeezed all of the rib to spar rivets that have
lightening holes next to them. The few that could not be reached (upper
and bottom most rivets at small lightening hole location only) I used
blind rivets on. Vans support okayed the use of LP4-3 or cherrymax
rivets. Tom, Ohio RV-9A fuselage
Message 12
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Mike Duiven" <emduiven@chaffee.net>
90517's Kit had the holes mismatched too.
Mike
N711ED (Reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Strong's" <tstrong@ida.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Wing Help
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "The Strong's" <tstrong@ida.net>
>
> This is interesting. My kit number is #90489 and those holes are still
> mismatched. I guess Van's just likes to make
> sure they will have a few easy questions to answer.
>
>
> Tom (working on wings)
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge installation |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "John Oliveira" <oliveira@frontiernet.net>
Small hands. Was not really a problem, but that was a year ago
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN KERR" <kerrjohna@comcast.net>
Subject: RV9-List: leading edge installation
> --> RV9-List message posted by: JOHN KERR <kerrjohna@comcast.net>
>
>
> for those of you who have finished attaching the leading edge to the
> spar...how does one with out and extra elbow get to the rivets
> attaching the 4th rib from the tip to the spar. It is the one between
> the most inboard lightening (small)hole and the aileron bellcrank.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wing jig question |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "John Oliveira" <oliveira@frontiernet.net>
I did my wings much as described. Rear spar about 18 inches off of the
floor. I then flipped them over to do the lower skins so I was reaching up
after I attached all the hinge brackets and the gap fairings. I could then
attach and adjust the ailerons mounted facing up. The instructions talk
about doing the lower skins while on the bench, but it worked very well
doing the skins vertically in the fixture.
John Oliveira
N909RV, 90054
Wings and empennage done - Fuselage on it's way.
----- Original Message -----
From: "david edgemon" <dedgemon@knology.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Re: Wing jig question
> --> RV9-List message posted by: david edgemon <dedgemon@knology.net>
>
> Ken,
> Since I just finished the wings I'll give you my two cents worth.
>
> Wings really pretty light. My wife and I could lift it really easily.
> Maybe 50 lbs or so a panel. (just a guess).
>
> Put the wings as far apart as you need to get a cordless drill
(screwdriver)
> and screws between the wings. Don't ask how I know this.
>
> Put them as low as you can and still assemble the rear spar and hinges.
> Maybe 6 inches off the floor for the rear spar would be could. This will
> make working on the tanks, landing lights, etc... easier. Plus at some
> point you'll want to flight them and work on the rear spar area for
hinges.
>
> Definately do both at once. It's much faster to do the second set of
> operations
> since you just did the first ones.
>
> Have fun.
>
> >
> >
> >>1. About how heavy is a wing?
> >>
> >>2. About how far off the uprights do you place the
> >>spar? I am making it movable much like Todd Houg
> >>shows on his WEB site. I have a cross member running
> >>between my uprights and need to determine how much
> >>space I need to get between the wing and the cross
> >>member.
> >>
> >>3. About how high off the floor did you put the spar?
> >> I know this would depend on the person, but a general
> >>idea would be nice
> >>
> >>4. I would like to hang both wings at once, any
> >>comments?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> --
>
> David Edgemon
> Summit Research Corp.
> Huntsville Al.
>
>
> _______
> |
> \__________________(*)__________________/
> "NN"
> Huntsville Soaring Club
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Wing Jig Question |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Todd Houg <thoug@attglobal.net>
Hello Ken,
In response to your posted questions as well as your direct inquiry . . .
I would estimate that each wing complete with skins weighs somehwere around 80
lbs each +/- 20, maybe less with no ailerons, flaps or 150 clecos attached! I
have moved the wings by myself, but I prefer not to. My wife can easily handle
one end when I need to swap them around.
My wing jig has 36" base legs with the uprights 2/3 offset to one side, leaving
12" to center on one end and 24" to center on the other. My intention was to
build a jig that would hold one wing, thus the offset would keep the weight centered
when I has the wing on. When I mounted the angle supports for the spar
I had extra material so I decided to extend them on the short side of the uprights.
This worked out quite well, since the wing jig is quite stable with both
wings on it. If I'm working with one wing it's always on the long side. The jig
is still stable with one wing on the short side, but I still put some bags
of lead shot on the base legs while I'm swapping wings around.
If I were planning for two wings, I would probably move the uprights to the center
of the base legs and still use 36" legs. This would still give eighteen inches
of leg on either side, and the spar supports don't need to extend any more
than twelve inches from the upright.
I mounted my spar supports about shoulder height. This work out quite well, but
I wouldn't want them any higher. A little lower than shoulder height would work
OK also.
I made two wood self like supports on one wall so I could remove one wing from
the jig and hang it on the wall out of the way. This worked great, you just have
to swap them arouns once in a while.
My lower cross memeber between the uprights is about 24" off the floor. Mine is
positioned just below the level of the rear spar although itcould be higher since
the wing is offset from the uprights. With it below the rear spar I was able
to put support block under the rear spar to remove the sag when fitting the
skins.
Let me know if you have any more questions . . .
Todd
RV9A fuselage - temporarily stalled . . .
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Moak [SMTP:ken_moak@yahoo.com]
Subject: RV9-List: Wing Jig Question
--> RV9-List message posted by: Ken Moak <ken_moak@yahoo.com>
Thanks to everyone that helped me with the empennage.
A Technical Counselor (Jim) came out last week and the
first milestone has happened. No rework, so I closed
things up. Thanks to all the advise, either direct or
in the archives.
Now I'm starting the Wing and have a couple of
questions.
1. About how heavy is a wing?
2. About how far off the uprights do you place the
spar? I am making it movable much like Todd Houg
shows on his WEB site. I have a cross member running
between my uprights and need to determine how much
space I need to get between the wing and the cross
member.
3. About how high off the floor did you put the spar?
I know this would depend on the person, but a general
idea would be nice
4. I would like to hang both wings at once, any
comments?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Ken
90608
Building the wing jig
http://platinum.yahoo.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Jig Question |
--> RV9-List message posted by: DThomas773@aol.com
Larry,
You are absolutely right. I would not attempt to move a wing without a good
sturdy person on the other end of it. It is just too long and wide to handle
alone.
Dennis Thomas
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: horizontal stabilizer riveting |
--> RV9-List message posted by: DThomas773@aol.com
Hi Bruce,
This is a problem we have all had. I just accepted the depression, or
pillowing as some call it. It is caused by the skin not being uniformly held
to the shape needed and you actually are squeezing the skin in to meet the
rib. Some folks say they have overcome it by adding additional cradles to
your jig. I'm sure you will get addtional advice as well.
Dennis Thomas
fuselage
Message 18
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| Subject: | leading edge installation |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Todd Houg <thoug@attglobal.net>
Find a friend with long skinny arms! My arms are too fat to fit back there, but
fortunately my friend and neighbor had the perfect long skinny arms. If that's
not an option, others have used pop rivets, but make sure you use the structural
cherrymax rivets of you go that route.
Good luck,
Todd Houg
-----Original Message-----
From: JOHN KERR [SMTP:kerrjohna@comcast.net]
Subject: RV9-List: leading edge installation
--> RV9-List message posted by: JOHN KERR <kerrjohna@comcast.net>
for those of you who have finished attaching the leading edge to the
spar...how does one with out and extra elbow get to the rivets
attaching the 4th rib from the tip to the spar. It is the one between
the most inboard lightening (small)hole and the aileron bellcrank.
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