Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:56 AM - Re: rv-9a ground handling (Andy Karmy)
2. 09:57 AM - Re: rv-9a ground handling (John Oliveira)
3. 11:57 AM - Closed end pop rivets (Richard Tasker)
4. 12:29 PM - Re: rv-9a ground handling (Andy Karmy)
5. 01:36 PM - Re: rv-9a ground handling (Gary)
6. 03:10 PM - Re: Closed end pop rivets (Curt Hoffman)
7. 03:52 PM - Re: Closed end pop rivets (Richard Tasker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: rv-9a ground handling |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Lots of interesting discussion below... Keep in mind I'm just trying to help, there
are not really clear right and wrongs with any of these settings and techniques.
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Welch, Ivo" <ivo.welch@yale.edu>
>fast rolling airplane with two wheels on the ground has very little
>left-right stability.
I think you have hit on the key point. I don't think there is a way to solve this
except slowing down when on the ground.
>I find that at 60mph IAS on final, the plane becomes very
>difficult to control. it is more stable at 80mph.
What's your stall speed. Standard thought is that the aproach speed should be 1.3
times stall speed. (assuming no wind or obstructions). So in my case Vso full
flaps is 45mph. I agree that 60mph feels much looser than cruise in the RV9,
but if stall is demonstrated at 45 and you are comfortable flying just above
stall in practice, then it should be fully under control. I use 60 for short
final and 70 if it's rough and windy, but somewhere just above the runway I end
up slowing enough so that you full stall as the mains touch.
>Idle speed on my prop is relatively high, because it is a catto
>prop (for now). it does not have enough inertia to keep the engine
>running at 500rpm. I cannot go less than 700rpm.
This may be a key to getting a good descent rate at idle. From what I rember talking
to Kevin that Catto prop was pitched as a climb prop. This too would explain
your lower cruise numbers referenced elseware.
>The one thing I need to do is to check the nosewheel breakout force.
>Maybe I want it even higher than the standard 20lbs.
This also is interesting. I find that at times if I lift off with a small force
on the nosewheel it is off center just a touch after liftoff. I can notice half
a ball of skid that lasts for about 5 mins into the flight. Eventually it fully
centers back into trail and the ball is centered again. I imagine that you
would notice this even more if you have it too tight.
>I am not the builder, so I need to get a hold of my mechanic.
Don't forget that "legally" you can do any and all work on your expieremental airplane.
Even without being the builder. You only legally need a mechanic to do
the yearly inspections. Of course this must be balanced against what you are
comfortable doing and working with your mechanic.
Good luck with it. Seems like there is always something to do with homebuilts tuning
and tweaking to get the best possible airplane...
- Andy
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: rv-9a ground handling |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "John Oliveira" <oliveira@frontiernet.net>
I think the original poster is right, he needs to contact is mechanic.
In order to do any work on you experimental you need to be the person the
repairman's certificate was issued to, or do the work under the supervision
of an A&P. Only one certificate is issues per project, so if it is a
partnership, you have to decide who gets the certificate.
The certificate is not transferable to a new owner. If you don't have one
the same rules apply as certified. Change oil, plugs, and minor cosmetic
stuff.
John Oliveira - N909RV - working of Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: rv-9a ground handling
>I am not the builder, so I need to get a hold of my mechanic.
> Don't forget that "legally" you can do any and all work on your
expieremental airplane. Even without being the builder. You only legally
need a mechanic to do the yearly inspections. Of course this must be
balanced against what you are comfortable doing and working with your
mechanic.
>
> Good luck with it. Seems like there is always something to do with
homebuilts tuning and tweaking to get the best possible airplane...
>
> - Andy
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Closed end pop rivets |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Last night I went to close up my first (left) fuel tank. I got
everything out and ready to go, put all the pro-seal in place, put the
rear baffle on and clecoed everything together. I installed the AD41H
closed end rivets into the edges of the ribs, riveted the mounting
brackets to the end ribs and riveted the skin to the baffle. When I
went to install the mounting brackets I discovered that the rivets in
the AD42H rivet drawer were the same length as the AD41H rivets! As a
stop gap measure, I clecoed the mounting brackets to the baffle and will
use extra pro-seal when I get the correct rivets.
I don't know if I have only "AD41H" or "AD42H" rivets so I don't know
what I used on the edges of the ribs. I suspect that they were correct
since they only took a little pulling with the pop rivet tool.
Does anyone have these rivets and can tell me what the dimensions are
supposed to be. The ones I have are 0.280 overall length and 0.230 from
under the head to the end.
Dick Tasker, 90573
Left wing
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: rv-9a ground handling |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Is there a chance we could get a reference to this opinion? Attached below is info
from the EAA faq website about the subject. That's where I got my information
from
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "John Oliveira" <oliveira@frontiernet.net>
>I think the original poster is right, he needs to contact is mechanic.
----------------------- begin included message -------------------
Non-builder Maintenance Frequently Asked Questions
I'm am going to buy a used homebuilt, what work can I perform myself?
FAR Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply to experimental,
amateur-built aircraft. Therefore, any work (not just maintenance)
on an experimental aircraft can be performed virtually by anyone regardless of
credentials. (This does not apply to the condition inspection). Let common sense
be your guide as to what maintenance you conduct yourself.
What is a Condition Inspection?
A condition inspection is the equivalent of an "annual" for a type certificated
aircraft. Although FAR Part 91.409(c)(1) specifically states that experimental
aircraft do not require annual inspections, the operating limitations on your
homebuilt will include the following (or something similar):
No person shall operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12 calendar months
it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance with the scope
and detail of appendix D to part 43, or other FAA-approved programs, and found
to be in a condition for safe operation. This inspection will be recorded in
the aircraft maintenance records. Condition inspections shall be recorded in
the aircraft maintenance records showing the following or a similarly worded statement:
"I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in
accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43 and found to be
in a condition for safe operation." The entry will include the aircraft total
time in service, and the name, signature, certificate number, and type of certificate
held by the
person performing the inspection.
See the condition inspection checklist for use in conducting annual condition inspections
under the Operating section of this web.
Since I don't have a Repairman Certificate, who must perform the Condition Inspection?
The inspection can be performed by any licensed A&P mechanic, an FAA Approved Repair
Station, or by the original builder of the airplane provided the builder
has a "Repairman Certificate" for that aircraft from the FAA. Note that unlike
an annual for a type certificated aircraft, the A&P mechanic does NOT have to
have his/her "Inspection Authorization". Sometimes, if you are lucky, you can
include as part of the purchase that the builder will continue to perform the
condition inspections.
I'm having trouble finding an A&P to perform my Condition Inspection, any ideas
where to find one?
The best place to find a local A&P willing to work on homebuilt aircraft is through
your local EAA Chapter. Many EAA Chapters have A&Ps who are chapter members
and will help you out. Usually, the Technical Counselor is the best person
to ask. If that doesn't work, see if someone else in the chapter owns a homebuilt
he did not build and find out who he is getting to perform his condition inspection.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: rv-9a ground handling |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Gary" <rv9er@3rivers.net>
Not so, John. Anyone can work on an Experimental. The Repairman Certificate allows
you to sign off the Annual Condition Inspection.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: John Oliveira
To: rv9-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: rv-9a ground handling
--> RV9-List message posted by: "John Oliveira" <oliveira@frontiernet.net>
I think the original poster is right, he needs to contact is mechanic.
In order to do any work on you experimental you need to be the person the
repairman's certificate was issued to, or do the work under the supervision
of an A&P. Only one certificate is issues per project, so if it is a
partnership, you have to decide who gets the certificate.
The certificate is not transferable to a new owner. If you don't have one
the same rules apply as certified. Change oil, plugs, and minor cosmetic
stuff.
John Oliveira - N909RV - working of Fuselage
---
Version: 6.0.462 / Virus Database: 261 - Release Date: 3/22/03
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Closed end pop rivets |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
I measured my 41H and 42H and this is what I got:
41H- .25" from under the head to the end of the rivet
42H- .30" from under the head to the end of the rivet.
I suspect your .23" is my .25" ( I am looking through bi-focal glasses after
all). The 42H are noticeable longer. Sounds like you have 41H left.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Closed end pop rivets
> --> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>
> Last night I went to close up my first (left) fuel tank. I got
> everything out and ready to go, put all the pro-seal in place, put the
> rear baffle on and clecoed everything together. I installed the AD41H
> closed end rivets into the edges of the ribs, riveted the mounting
> brackets to the end ribs and riveted the skin to the baffle. When I
> went to install the mounting brackets I discovered that the rivets in
> the AD42H rivet drawer were the same length as the AD41H rivets! As a
> stop gap measure, I clecoed the mounting brackets to the baffle and will
> use extra pro-seal when I get the correct rivets.
>
> I don't know if I have only "AD41H" or "AD42H" rivets so I don't know
> what I used on the edges of the ribs. I suspect that they were correct
> since they only took a little pulling with the pop rivet tool.
>
> Does anyone have these rivets and can tell me what the dimensions are
> supposed to be. The ones I have are 0.280 overall length and 0.230 from
> under the head to the end.
>
> Dick Tasker, 90573
> Left wing
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Closed end pop rivets |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
I was afraid of that - they are all 41H rivets. So I have to get some
42H to finish the tank. I sure hope it doesn't leak after waiting for
the rivets...
Thanks for the measurements,
Dick Tasker, 90573
Left wing
Curt Hoffman wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
>
>I measured my 41H and 42H and this is what I got:
>41H- .25" from under the head to the end of the rivet
>42H- .30" from under the head to the end of the rivet.
>
>I suspect your .23" is my .25" ( I am looking through bi-focal glasses after
>all). The 42H are noticeable longer. Sounds like you have 41H left.
>
>Curt Hoffman
>RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
>1968 Mustang 302 convertible
>Piper Cherokee N5320W
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
>Subject: RV9-List: Closed end pop rivets
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>
>>Last night I went to close up my first (left) fuel tank. I got
>>everything out and ready to go, put all the pro-seal in place, put the
>>rear baffle on and clecoed everything together. I installed the AD41H
>>closed end rivets into the edges of the ribs, riveted the mounting
>>brackets to the end ribs and riveted the skin to the baffle. When I
>>went to install the mounting brackets I discovered that the rivets in
>>the AD42H rivet drawer were the same length as the AD41H rivets! As a
>>stop gap measure, I clecoed the mounting brackets to the baffle and will
>>use extra pro-seal when I get the correct rivets.
>>
>>I don't know if I have only "AD41H" or "AD42H" rivets so I don't know
>>what I used on the edges of the ribs. I suspect that they were correct
>>since they only took a little pulling with the pop rivet tool.
>>
>>Does anyone have these rivets and can tell me what the dimensions are
>>supposed to be. The ones I have are 0.280 overall length and 0.230 from
>>under the head to the end.
>>
>>Dick Tasker, 90573
>>Left wing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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