---------------------------------------------------------- RV9-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/15/03: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:52 AM - Re: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) (Jill and Tom Welch) 2. 06:42 AM - Re: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) (Don/Marcia Piermattei) 3. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) (JOHN KERR) 4. 08:30 AM - Re: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) (Andy Karmy) 5. 09:55 AM - Re: little wheel in the back (Chris W) 6. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: little wheel in the back (Ralph Cloud) 7. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: little wheel in the back (Chris W) 8. 02:06 PM - Re: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) (DThomas773@aol.com) 9. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: little wheel in the back (Ralph Cloud) 10. 11:02 PM - Re: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) (Haywire) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:53 AM PST US From: "Jill and Tom Welch" Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) --> RV9-List message posted by: "Jill and Tom Welch" Todd,I have been watching your project with intrest ever since I started mine a year and a half ago .If you beat me in the air please come visit in montana. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:44 AM PST US From: "Don/Marcia Piermattei" --> RV9-List message posted by: "Don/Marcia Piermattei" From: "Haywire" Subject: RE: RV9-List: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) Todd, How about enlightening us re your opinion that the trike is better for short/rough strips. I was disappointed to have purchased my kit before the tail dragger and didn't want to regress to have to convert, but I will be operating from a short/rough strip. Thanks, Don Piermattei N 192 DP Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD 5000 E County Rd 92 Carr, CO 80612 970/568-9047 Fax 970/568-7279 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:19 AM PST US From: JOHN KERR Subject: Re: RE: RV9-List: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) --> RV9-List message posted by: JOHN KERR conventional thought is that conventional gear is preferred for short rough landing strips ala bush planes. What are your reasonings? ----- Original Message ----- From: Haywire Subject: RE: RV9-List: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Haywire" > > Actually I've got you all beat. I built my own engine > mount (for a rotary > engine) that has mount options for main gear and nose gear and > have main > gear mounts in the fuselage and a tail wheel mount. I did this > almost a year > before Van's came out with the tailwheel option. I'm secure enough > in my > masculinity to put the little wheel any damn place I want it. > My reasons for doing this is that I believe the trike > configuration to be > better for short rough strips, but the taildragger is necessary > for ski > operations due to a lack of differential braking. > First flights will be as a trike (in about a month). I'll > try it as a TD > possibly this winter. > > S. Todd Bartrim > Turbo 13B rotary powered > RV-9endurance (FWF) > C-FSTB > http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm > > "Whatever you vividly imagine, Ardently desire, Sincerely > believein, Enthusiastically act upon, Must inevitably come to pass". > > > > > --- > > > _- > ======================================================================_- = - The RV9-List Email Forum - > _- > ======================================================================_- = !! NEWish !! > _- > ======================================================================_- = List Related Information > _- > ====================================================================== > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:31 AM PST US From: "Andy Karmy" Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) --> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" It's interesting that this discussion came up yesterday at the Scapoose homewing flyin. Van was looking over at the RV9 taildragger and commented that not many sales had come from the TD version as most of the new builders wanted the trike. He said the trike is also the most popular on the RV7's... Seems like a new era of homebuilders is taking over with different tastes... Good luck all you Rv9 builders. It sure did look nice as it lifted off to leave the flyin! - Andy >--> RV9-List message posted by: "Jill and Tom Welch" > >Hi guys, I am the third (real airplane) rv9.I was wondering what ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:57 AM PST US From: Chris W Subject: RV9-List: Re: little wheel in the back --> RV9-List message posted by: Chris W Don/Marcia Piermattei wrote: > Todd, > How about enlightening us re your opinion that the trike is better for > short/rough strips. I was disappointed to have purchased my kit before the > tail dragger and didn't want to regress to have to convert, but I will be > operating from a short/rough strip. > Thanks, My understanding is that the because the nose draggers can obtain a higher angle of attach on the ground with out the tail hitting the ground, they can get off quicker. Apparently the AOA with the tail wheel on the ground is still a ways away from the AOA with greatest lift. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 chrisw@programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:04 AM PST US From: "Ralph Cloud" Subject: RE: RV9-List: Re: little wheel in the back --> RV9-List message posted by: "Ralph Cloud" Also, You can get a higher AOA on landing, making for a slower touchdown and shorter rollout. Ralph Do not archive > > My understanding is that the because the nose draggers can obtain > a higher angle of > attach on the ground with out the tail hitting the ground, they > can get off quicker. > Apparently the AOA with the tail wheel on the ground is still a > ways away from the AOA > with greatest lift. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:42 PM PST US From: Chris W Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: little wheel in the back --> RV9-List message posted by: Chris W Ralph Cloud wrote: > Also, You can get a higher AOA on landing, making for a slower touchdown and > shorter rollout. Why can't you just land it on the tail wheel first and then let the main gear come down? A friend of mine who used to fly in Alaska said he did that on occasion in a Cub when he needed to set it down on a really short stretch of beach. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 chrisw@programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:31 PM PST US From: DThomas773@aol.com Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) --> RV9-List message posted by: DThomas773@aol.com Hi Tom, Are you tipper or slider? Dennis Thomas fuselage approaching canopy ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:06 PM PST US From: "Ralph Cloud" Subject: RE: RV9-List: Re: little wheel in the back --> RV9-List message posted by: "Ralph Cloud" Some of my EAA chapter members were up at Van's for the homecoming a couple of years ago. They witnessed the crew put all of the RV demos back in the hangar for the night and left the RV9A out. Their first thought was that they didn't care for it as much as the rest of them.... then Van climed in the 9A and flew home to his backyard home strip. You see, he likes the 9A as his personal commute plane. Ralph do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris W > Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 2:04 PM > To: rv9-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: little wheel in the back > > > --> RV9-List message posted by: Chris W > > Ralph Cloud wrote: > > > Also, You can get a higher AOA on landing, making for a slower > touchdown and > > shorter rollout. > > Why can't you just land it on the tail wheel first and then let > the main gear > come down? A friend of mine who used to fly in Alaska said he did that on > occasion in a Cub when he needed to set it down on a really short > stretch of > beach. > > > -- > Chris Woodhouse > 3147 SW 127th St. > Oklahoma City, OK 73170 > 405-691-5206 > chrisw@programmer.net > N35 20.492' > W97 34.342' > > "They that can give up essential liberty > to obtain a little temporary safety > deserve neither liberty nor safety." > -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:56 PM PST US From: "Haywire" Subject: RE: RV9-List: RV-9 (little wheel in the back) --> RV9-List message posted by: "Haywire" Hi; I'll try to answer all in one e-mail a.. > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Jill and Tom Welch" > > > Todd,I have been watching your project with intrest ever since I > started mine a year and a half ago .If you beat me in the air > please come visit in montana My website is woefully out of date, but as I near completion I really don't feel like working on the PC to update it. I'm even having a tough time keeping up with e-mail. After I have all testing done I'll likely go north for a few weeks, then late summer I'll probably go visit a few friends in the states, before I leave I'll put out an e-mail on the list and would be happy to stop in and take other builders for a ride. a.. How about enlightening us re your opinion that the trike is better for short/rough strips. I was disappointed to have purchased my kit before the tail dragger and didn't want to regress to have to convert, but I will be operating from a short/rough strip. Thanks, Don Piermattei Lacking personal experience with the two models on rough strips, my opinion is based on others experience and judgement. Ken Kruger (from Vans) wrote a good article which is posted somewhere on the Vans Airforce world wing. It discusses this very thing. Further to this a few years ago I discussed this with him in person with a buddy of mine who is a commercial bush pilot. To sum up the conversation it came down to three main points. 1.. Visibility- If you can see the obstacle, you are much less likely to hit the obstacle. 2.. Braking- you can brake harder without concern of going over on the nose 3.. AOA- able to have slower, steeper approach as the mains are located further aft which allows for a much steeper pitch (greater than stall) without touching the tail. Take off is also greatly improved as you can very quickly rotate into ground effect, then speed will quickly increase to best climb, without bouncing along on rough terrain. a.. --> RV9-List message posted by: JOHN KERR conventional thought is that conventional gear is preferred for short rough landing strips ala bush planes. What are your reasonings? These are unconventional planes allowing for unconventional thinking. I'm sure that some planes designed specifically for bush operations (which these are not) do benefit from conventional gear, but many also do this to cater to pilot perceived advantage. Many (most?) modern bush planes in northern Canada are trikes and operate out of soft strips carved out of the muskeg. a.. My understanding is that the because the nose draggers can obtain a higher angle of attach on the ground with out the tail hitting the ground, they can get off quicker. Apparently the AOA with the tail wheel on the ground is still a ways away from the AOA with greatest lift. --Chris Woodhouse b.. Also, You can get a higher AOA on landing, making for a slower touchdown and shorter rollout. Ralph Yep, that's about right. a.. Why can't you just land it on the tail wheel first and then let the main gear come down? A friend of mine who used to fly in Alaska said he did that on occasion in a Cub when he needed to set it down on a really short stretch of beach. -- Chris Woodhouse Doing this perfectly every time would take alot of skill and concentration on a smooth surface (such as a wet beach), but could you do this every time on a rough strip? What about that one little bump that you couldn't see? I can envision that little bump on the tailwheel slapping the plane down on the mains, resulting in a nose heavy bounce, with a really ugly finish. I'm one to take difficult calculated risks that require much skill and concentration, but to what advantage? I don't see one here. Am I correct in my thinking here? I don't know for certain. Could be I don't have a clue, but these are my thoughts for those that asked. I hope this helps or at least entertained ;-) S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B RV-9endurance C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "Whatever you vividly imagine, Ardently desire, Sincerely believe in, Enthusiastically act upon, Must inevitably come to pass". ---