---------------------------------------------------------- RV9-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/28/03: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:42 AM - Bad wing rib to spar rivets (Warren W Hurd) 2. 06:45 AM - IFR in RV-9A (ivo welch) 3. 06:52 AM - Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets (Jerry Calvert) 4. 07:09 AM - Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets (fcs@jlc.net) 5. 08:33 AM - Riveting (Boyd Butler) 6. 01:08 PM - Re: RV9 (Gkb5577@aol.com) 7. 01:35 PM - Virii (Rob W M Shipley) 8. 08:49 PM - [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 9. 09:19 PM - New Dimpling Tool (DRDT-1) shipping soon (Merems) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:22 AM PST US From: Warren W Hurd Matronics RV9 List Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets --> RV9-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head. I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this better? Warren Hurd 90454 Wings http://www.ahyup.com Mushroomed Rivets ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:29 AM PST US From: ivo welch Subject: RV9-List: IFR in RV-9A --> RV9-List message posted by: ivo welch I think I would be fairly reluctant to do IFR in an aerobatic RV (1-8). However, the RV9 is "almost" ideal for IFR. It is a beautifully stable and easy to control airplane. I am currently getting IFR instructions from a master CFI here in CT, and he is very impressed with the airplane. I can affirmatively state that the RV-9A is very suitable. There is only one drawback to an RV-9, compared to other small piston planes, such as a cherokee: it is very easy to gain 50-100' of altitude. Remember: the 9A has "almost bad glider" characteristics. It really wants to fly. This is a minor drawback. Now, another question is how safe is hard IFR for a single pilot in any small airplane. The answer must be "not very." I would not fly IFR unless I had three conditions met. First, independent main instrument systems (gyro, alt, etc.). The partial panel on the IFR test forgets recognizing that a gyro has failed. My guess is by the time you do recognize this in real busy IFR flight, you would be in deep dodo. This is easily avoided if you have an EFIS that affirmatively recognizes trouble (e.g., against magnetic+GPS input), or if you have an EFIS+AI that you use in your scan. The Dynon, IMHO, is the ideal instrument to provide this safety margin. Second, I would insist on an autopilot and alt-hold. The ideal system has the plane fly itself, and you as the pilot watching over what the plane is flying, so that you are the cross-check. This gives you the time to pay attention to everything necessary and reduce mistakes. Finally, anyone flying IFR without a good GPS nowadays should have his/her head examined. What I find interesting is how far my ideas of safety diverge from the FAA's idea of safety. So, while I would make a Dynon-type $2,200 instrument an additional requirement, the FAA not only is neutral, but outright discourages it (this is in certificated airplanes). The ability to buy reasonably priced avionics is my biggest reason for preferring homebuilts to certificated airplanes. You put a lot of reasonable people with the best intent into one big organization (called the FAA), and what comes out is an often counterproductive mess. The only saving grace is that some individuals inside the FAA spend their personal time and effort to help. Regards, /iaw ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:00 AM PST US From: "Jerry Calvert" Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets --> RV9-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" Check the rivet set to make sure it is correct size cup for the rivet. Looks like the cup size may be too small. If the set is correct size, use more hand pressure on gun to keep it from bouncing. Make sure the set is not at an angle to the centerline of the rivet. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC res ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren W Hurd" Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > --> RV9-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd > > I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting > of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the > factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the > rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to > make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much > attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head. > I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this > better? > > Warren Hurd > 90454 Wings > http://www.ahyup.com > Mushroomed Rivets > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:55 AM PST US From: "fcs@jlc.net" Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets --> RV9-List message posted by: "fcs@jlc.net" When squeezing the trigger, don't just squeeze it once and hold it for the number of seconds you feel it will take. Once the gun starts to bounce, it will rapidly bounce out of control. Instead try this. Squeeze the trigger in short bursts. Count one, two, three, four, five, squeezing the trigger each time you count. This doesn't take any longer and results in far less bounce damage should you slip. The objective of course is not to slip to begin with, but this technique will help a lot. I was taught to use this method by the "old man" of our sheetmetal shop at the airline I used to work for. You won't find smileys on my plane, so I can vouch for its effectiveness. Don't just leave the smileys, drill them out and fix them. If the damage is to the metal, at least try to gently tap it flat again. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:56 AM PST US From: "Boyd Butler" Subject: RV9-List: Riveting --> RV9-List message posted by: "Boyd Butler" When I did my riveting,both while working for an aircraft company and on my airplane, one was correct rivet set, two hold it tight against the rivet head, three don't look at the bucking bar once its in place use your fingers to feel it and keep it in proper position,concentrate on the rivet gun end of the operation,correct angle to the head as it looks like you were tilting the gun,also once am ready to drive try to drive it in one burst not several small ones as that hardens the rivet and makes it harder to drive. Never use angled rivet sets unless there is no other way to do it as they are a bad deal at the best and only for those very few times when you need them. Do not use one of those cheep rivet guns that are actually muffler cutters as they don't work either. I wish you luck, look at factory rivets before you drill anything out as bad. When drilling those out try to just drill the center of the head off, then while supporting the back side use a punch to drive the rest out, remember support the back side as close to the rivet as possible. I do hope our ideas help. Boyd Butler Boyd Butler ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:10 PM PST US From: Gkb5577@aol.com Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9 --> RV9-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com Boyd: I'm Geoff Bowman, am starting to look for another project: considering a RV/ Cozy/ ongEZ---do you have any tips/ pointers or food for thought for me? Appreciate it Geoff ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:25 PM PST US From: "Rob W M Shipley" Subject: RV9-List: Virii --> RV9-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" From: "L. Mark Thomasson" Subject: RV9-List: WORM SWEN_A --> RV9-List message posted by: "L. Mark Thomasson" My anti-virus is catching 8 to 10 messages a day with the Worm SWEN_A attached. Will everybody please at least run the free virus checker at www.antivirus.com and remove the worm from your system if you have it. Much better would be to download the FREE antivirus software from AVG. www.grisoft.com This is an outstanding product and gives the lie to that old saw "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Rob Rob W M Shipley RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:22 PM PST US Subject: RV9-List: [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> RV9-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Henry Hore Subject: Rivet-gun double off-set holder for one hand operation. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com.09.28.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:44 PM PST US From: "Merems" , , , Subject: RV9-List: New Dimpling Tool (DRDT-1) shipping soon --> RV9-List message posted by: "Merems" Fellow RV Builders, I have developed a new dimpling tool (DRDT-1) that is easier, faster, quieter, and safer (on the skins) then any other tool offered by existing aircraft tool suppliers. I have designed it to accommodate all the skins used in a RV construction including the prebent leading and trailing edge skins. It has been designed to accommodate the larger skins used in the RV-10. Please visit ExperimentalAero at www.experimentalaero.com. On this website you will also find innovative tools and components under development for your experimental aircraft project. Paul Merems ExperimentalAero