---------------------------------------------------------- RV9-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/01/03: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:28 PM - Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/30/03 (James Murray) 2. 04:32 PM - Re: RV-9A Tow Bar (Dave Nicholson) 3. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/30/03 (Andy Karmy) 4. 05:39 PM - HS skin fit (Paul Eastham) 5. 06:48 PM - Re: HS skin fit (Ken Moak) 6. 07:26 PM - Re: HS skin fit (DThomas773@aol.com) 7. 08:17 PM - Re: HS skin fit (Paul Eastham) 8. 08:45 PM - Re: Re: HS skin fit (DThomas773@aol.com) 9. 11:22 PM - Rib to Spar Rivets--Thank You (Warren W Hurd) 10. 11:33 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:10 PM PST US From: James Murray Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/30/03 --> RV9-List message posted by: James Murray Does anyone know where to get a hand tow bar for the RV-9A?? Jim Murray 90430 --- RV9-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete RV9-List Digest can be also be > found in either > of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file > includes the Digest > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and > features Hyperlinked > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file > includes the plain ASCII > version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed > with a generic > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > > > RV9-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue > 09/30/03: 2 > > > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:58 AM - Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > (Phil Birkelbach) > 2. 08:49 PM - Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1 > (Merems) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:58:22 AM PST US > From: "Phil Birkelbach" > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" > > > When I smiley a rivet like that I usually turn the > air down a little bit. > > Godspeed, > > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy > http://www.myrv7.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Warren W Hurd" > Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > > > > --> RV9-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd > > > > > I have been happy with most of my rivets until > now. During the riveting > > of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly > deformed some of the > > factory rivet heads. See them at > http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the > > rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would > take 3 to 4 seconds to > > make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was > paying much to much > > attention to the shop head and ignoring the > factory head. > > I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should > I do to make this > > better? > > > > Warren Hurd > > 90454 Wings > > http://www.ahyup.com > > Mushroomed Rivets > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:49:28 PM PST US > From: "Merems" > , > , > , > Subject: RV9-List: Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1 > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Merems" > > > Fellow builders. > > Due to a computer error an outdated PDF was > called-up when getting information about the DRDT-1. > This has caused some confusion and has been > correct. Here is the new DRDT-1 PDF > http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-1.pdf > > Sorry for the error. > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:13 PM PST US From: Dave Nicholson Subject: RV9-List: RE: RV-9A Tow Bar --> RV9-List message posted by: Dave Nicholson I use a "Deluxe Cessna Towbar" from Aircraft Spruce (P/N 13-01540) Dave N347SD (Res.) On Wednesday, October 01, 2003 4:27 PM, James Murray [SMTP:jmurraymd@yahoo.com] wrote: > --> RV9-List message posted by: James Murray > > Does anyone know where to get a hand tow bar for the > RV-9A?? > > Jim Murray 90430 > > > --- RV9-List Digest Server > wrote: > > * > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:33 PM PST US From: "Andy Karmy" Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/30/03 --> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" I got a great one from Bogart aviation, the "Bogi bar" Works fine. http://maxpages.com/bogertaviation/Bogi_Bars - Andy ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: James Murray >--> RV9-List message posted by: James Murray > >Does anyone know where to get a hand tow bar for the >RV-9A?? > >Jim Murray 90430 > > >--- RV9-List Digest Server > wrote: >> * >> >> ================================================== >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================== >> >> Today's complete RV9-List Digest can be also be >> found in either >> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file >> includes the Digest >> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and >> features Hyperlinked >> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file >> includes the plain ASCII >> version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed >> with a generic >> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> >> >http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.html >> >> Text Version: >> >> >> >http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.txt >> >> >> ================================================ >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================ >> >> >> >> >> RV9-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Tue >> 09/30/03: 2 >> >> >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> 1. 06:58 AM - Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets >> (Phil Birkelbach) >> 2. 08:49 PM - Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1 >> (Merems) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 1 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 06:58:22 AM PST US >> From: "Phil Birkelbach" >> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets >> >> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" >> >> >> When I smiley a rivet like that I usually turn the >> air down a little bit. >> >> Godspeed, >> >> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas >> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy >> http://www.myrv7.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Warren W Hurd" >> Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets >> >> >> > --> RV9-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd >> >> > >> > I have been happy with most of my rivets until >> now. During the riveting >> > of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly >> deformed some of the >> > factory rivet heads. See them at >> http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the >> > rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would >> take 3 to 4 seconds to >> > make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was >> paying much to much >> > attention to the shop head and ignoring the >> factory head. >> > I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should >> I do to make this >> > better? >> > >> > Warren Hurd >> > 90454 Wings >> > http://www.ahyup.com >> > Mushroomed Rivets >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 2 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 08:49:28 PM PST US >> From: "Merems" >> , >> , >> , >> Subject: RV9-List: Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1 >> >> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Merems" >> >> >> Fellow builders. >> >> Due to a computer error an outdated PDF was >> called-up when getting information about the DRDT-1. >> This has caused some confusion and has been >> correct. Here is the new DRDT-1 PDF >> http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-1.pdf >> >> Sorry for the error. >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Contributions >> any other >> Forums. >> >> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report >> >> http://www.matronics.com/subscription >> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm >> http://www.matronics.com/archives >> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare >> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists >> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >__________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:54 PM PST US From: Paul Eastham Subject: RV9-List: HS skin fit --> RV9-List message posted by: Paul Eastham Hi rvators, I have had a really tough time getting the HS skin clecoed to the skeleton. I have read about the problems with the nose ribs and I did encounter those as well (not before bending out the skin at the tip, alas). But on top of that, both of my spars and several main ribs seemed to be sitting up very high in comparison to the skin, as if the skin was a little too small. A lot of pushing down on the skeleton and removal of all the spar vinyl *just barely* got me close enough to put clecos in (I hope) without damage. They were not perfectly lined up by any means! Maybe 20% blocked or so in some places. I even had to move around on the rivet lines looking for closer holes to bring everything else into alignment. I do not have a very warm fuzzy feeling about this. I know this is a "stressed skin" structure but this seems a bit much. I have read about sanding ribs in the archives, but in order to reduce them such that the spars fit better, it would seem that it would rapidly weaken the rib at the flange bend. I have also rechecked the jig, skin alignment in the jig, and fluting on all ribs. Any other advice? Or is the whole thing normally a tricky fit? Thanks, Paul __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:45 PM PST US From: Ken Moak Subject: Re: RV9-List: HS skin fit --> RV9-List message posted by: Ken Moak Paul Make sure the ribs are straight. It is a tight fit but I don't remember it being that tight. I would not sand a rib either. Deburr, polish an edge, flute but removing material would bother me in several ways, not only are you removing material but the alcad surface. Make sure the ribs are straight, really straight, I have caught my self both under and over fluting. Ken Wings 90508 --- Paul Eastham wrote: > --> RV9-List message posted by: Paul Eastham > > > Hi rvators, > > > I have had a really tough time getting the HS skin > clecoed to the > > skeleton. I have read about the problems with the > nose ribs and I did > > encounter those as well (not before bending out the > skin at the tip, > > alas). But on top of that, both of my spars and > several main ribs > > seemed to be sitting up very high in comparison to > the skin, as if the > > skin was a little too small. A lot of pushing down > on the skeleton > > and removal of all the spar vinyl *just barely* got > me close enough to > > put clecos in (I hope) without damage. They were > not perfectly lined > > up by any means! Maybe 20% blocked or so in some > places. I even had > > to move around on the rivet lines looking for closer > holes to bring > > everything else into alignment. > > > > > > I do not have a very warm fuzzy feeling about this. > I know this is a > > "stressed skin" structure but this seems a bit much. > > > > > > I have read about sanding ribs in the archives, but > in order to > > reduce them such that the spars fit better, it would > seem that it > > would rapidly weaken the rib at the flange bend. I > have also rechecked > > the jig, skin alignment in the jig, and fluting on > all ribs. > > > > > Any other advice? Or is the whole thing normally a > tricky fit? > > Thanks, > > Paul > > __________________________________ > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:38 PM PST US From: DThomas773@aol.com Subject: Re: RV9-List: HS skin fit --> RV9-List message posted by: DThomas773@aol.com Paul, Did you remove the plastic on the inside of the skin? Dennis Thomas Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:33 PM PST US From: Paul Eastham Subject: RV9-List: Re: HS skin fit --> RV9-List message posted by: Paul Eastham Quoting: DThomas773@aol.com > Paul, > Did you remove the plastic on the inside of the skin? > Dennis Thomas No, the skins are still totally covered. Think that matters? I guess I could see that moving the skins outward enough to make things come up a little short at the top... I always wondered about the sense of match-drilling with the skin still on (here or anywhere else in the kit). The manual says it's ok, but I don't quite believe it. Or is it enough to match-drill with plastic on then just count on getting a better fit once the plastic is all off for final assembly? Paul __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:19 PM PST US From: DThomas773@aol.com Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: HS skin fit --> RV9-List message posted by: DThomas773@aol.com Hi Paul, I think it will matter. I removed the plastic on the inside skins and a narrow strip from over the rivet lines on the outside. A trick several builders shared with me was to use a small soldering iron and a long striaght edge to scribe a line along both sides of each rivet line. 5/8 to 3/4 inches wide. The scored mark will then tear and you can pull off a strip of plastic coating just where you need to match drill, deburr and dimple. Just take care that you don't press down hard enough to score the aluminum as well. If you do you will just have some rubbing to do. Good Luck. Dennis Thomas finishing kit do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:25 PM PST US From: Warren W Hurd Subject: RV9-List: Rib to Spar Rivets--Thank You --> RV9-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd Many thanks to all those who have written about my rib to spar rivet problem. Things that will be changed when I try again are. 1, A 3X rebuilt rivet gun just ordered from The Yard 2, A long straight rivet set. 3, I will also try to find some hockey shin tape to put on the rivet head. 4, Turn the spars upside down so that I will be looking at the factory head during the riveting process. 5, Remove some the wooden spar supports so the spar will flex slightly during riveting. 6, Try a starting pressure of about 40 psi. 7, Smooth out some of the smileys on the ribs. The spar was undamaged. 8, For some reason I had thought that the flow valve hat comes with a gun kit was ball valve. So in the future I will turn it more than 180 degrees. I had thought the valve was rather ineffectual. 9, Make a small gauge to locate the center of the rivet, and remove the bad rivet heads. 10, Then drive out the bad rivets with a punch. I also liked the exhaust pipe anti rotate tool, which I will probably try at some time. Thanks for the many words of encouragement. My confidence has been restored. Warren http://ahyup.com 90454 (Rib to Spar Rivets, again) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:03 PM PST US From: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Subject: RV9-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] --> RV9-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) ****************************************************************************** RV9-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV9-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV9-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV9-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV9-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. 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Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. -------