Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:05 AM - Re: Grand Rapids 4000 (Steve Sampson)
2. 07:36 AM - Checking tanks (The Strong's)
3. 07:52 AM - Re: Grand Rapids 4000 (Andy Karmy)
4. 08:00 AM - Re: Checking tanks (Dave Nicholson)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: Checking tanks (Cy Galley)
6. 01:00 PM - Re: Grand Rapids 4000 (Steve Sampson)
7. 07:10 PM - Re: Checking tanks (Ralph Cloud)
8. 07:47 PM - Re: Checking tanks (rv9@3rivers.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Grand Rapids 4000 |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Andy, thanks for that. Leland asked the one query I had and you have
answered that.I was a bit surprised when I saw the fuel management stuff in
the pictures, but your reply to Leland all made sense. Looks like I will
habve a really simple, and light, panel! I was surprised that not more
people had experience to report. Perhaps more money is better!
Thanks, Steve.
Message 2
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "The Strong's" <tstrong@ida.net>
What is the down side for leaking checking the tanks with water? Could you
fill the tank
1/3 or so and then just check for leaks then turn the tank over and check
again?
Will the water do any lasting harm to the inside of the tank?
Thanks,
Tom
Message 3
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| Subject: | Grand Rapids 4000 |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Speaking of more money is better... I think the cat's meow
would be GRT's new graphic head unit attached to the EIS!
That looks like just the coolest interface. As soon as I find
some free money laying around count me in!
- Andy
---------- Original Message
----------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
<SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Andy, thanks for that. Leland asked the one query I had and
you have
>answered that.I was a bit surprised when I saw the fuel
management stuff in
>the pictures, but your reply to Leland all made sense. Looks
like I will
>habve a really simple, and light, panel! I was surprised that
not more
>people had experience to report. Perhaps more money is
better!
>
>Thanks, Steve.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Checking tanks |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2@insightbb.com>
1. Condensation on the outside may confuse the issue.
2. Water will cause "some" corrosion.
3. It will be very hard to get all the water out.
4. The tanks will become very heavy, even with on 1/3 full (50# of water).
5. Normal tap water has a certain amount of minerals in it that will be
left behind when the water film evaporates.
Most people use very low air pressure (8 to 10 inches water column) and a
soap solution on the outside to determine if there are any leaks.
Make a manometer with about 6 feet of 1/4" clar plastic tubing formed in a
"U" shape and filed 1/2 way with colored water. A fish tank valve make a
good way to connect a hand pump to the system so you can control how much
pressure you put in. If there are no leaks and the temperature remains
cnstant, the water level will stay at the same place on the tube.
Dave Nicholson
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Strong's" <tstrong@ida.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Checking tanks
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "The Strong's" <tstrong@ida.net>
>
> What is the down side for leaking checking the tanks with water? Could
you
> fill the tank
> 1/3 or so and then just check for leaks then turn the tank over and check
> again?
> Will the water do any lasting harm to the inside of the tank?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Checking tanks |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Dave, How heavy do you think the tank will be when it is full of fuel?
All of your points are correct but hardly likely to effect the life of the tank.
Remember, one has to sump tanks to remove condensation.
The heavy loading of the water will tell you if the load of gas will open up a
leak. But your tank will experience even heavier loads when pulling "Gs".
With that said, the air pressure is nice. Personally, I use lung pressure as a
pump can cause problems. One foot of water head is about 0.4 psi.
If I remember right FAA certs require 3.5 psi which can destroy an unsupported
tank.
The FAR part 23 is
23.965 Fuel tank tests.
(a) Each fuel tank must be able to withstand the following pressures without failure
or leakage:
(1) For each conventional metal tank and nonmetallic tank with walls not supported
by the airplane structure, a pressure of 3.5 p.s.i., or that pressure developed
during maximum ultimate acceleration with a full tank, whichever is greater.
(2) For each integral tank, the pressure developed during the maximum limit acceleration
of the airplane with a full tank, with simultaneous application of the
critical limit structural loads.
(3) For each nonmetallic tank with walls supported by the airplane structure and
constructed in an acceptable manner using acceptable basic tank material, and
with actual or simulated support conditions, a pressure of 2 p.s.i. for the
first tank of a specific design. The supporting structure must be designed for
the critical loads occurring in the flight or landing strength conditions combined
with the fuel pressure loads resulting from the corresponding accelerations.
(b) Each fuel tank with large, unsupported, or unstiffened flat surfaces,whose
failure or deformation could cause fuel leakage, must be able to withstand the
following test without leakage, failure, or excessive deformation of the tank
walls:
(1) Each complete tank assembly and its support must be vibration tested while
mounted to simulate the actual installation.
(2) Except as specified in paragraph (b)(4) of this section, the tank assembly
must be vibrated for 25 hours at a total displacement of not less than 1/32 of
an inch (unless another displacement is substantiated) while 2/3 filled with
water or other suitable test fluid.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2@insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Checking tanks
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2@insightbb.com>
>
> 1. Condensation on the outside may confuse the issue.
> 2. Water will cause "some" corrosion.
> 3. It will be very hard to get all the water out.
> 4. The tanks will become very heavy, even with on 1/3 full (50# of water).
> 5. Normal tap water has a certain amount of minerals in it that will be
> left behind when the water film evaporates.
>
> Most people use very low air pressure (8 to 10 inches water column) and a
> soap solution on the outside to determine if there are any leaks.
>
> Make a manometer with about 6 feet of 1/4" clar plastic tubing formed in a
> "U" shape and filed 1/2 way with colored water. A fish tank valve make a
> good way to connect a hand pump to the system so you can control how much
> pressure you put in. If there are no leaks and the temperature remains
> cnstant, the water level will stay at the same place on the tube.
>
> Dave Nicholson
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Strong's" <tstrong@ida.net>
> To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV9-List: Checking tanks
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "The Strong's" <tstrong@ida.net>
> >
> > What is the down side for leaking checking the tanks with water? Could
> you
> > fill the tank
> > 1/3 or so and then just check for leaks then turn the tank over and check
> > again?
> > Will the water do any lasting harm to the inside of the tank?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Grand Rapids 4000 |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Andy - yes it looks cool but does it REALLY add anything? I think in reality
if the GR red light is not on one should spend ALL ones time looking out the
window. Plus, as the photo of St Helens (or is it Shasta), on your web sight
shows, the view outside is free and worth 1000 times more!
Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Karmy
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Grand Rapids 4000
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
Speaking of more money is better... I think the cat's meow
would be GRT's new graphic head unit attached to the EIS!
That looks like just the coolest interface. As soon as I find
some free money laying around count me in!
- Andy
Message 7
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Ralph Cloud" <rv9ralph@flash.net>
Cy, as always your answer is right on. However, one thing you did not
address...
Blood is thicker than water... and... wanter is thicker than AvGas. The
fuel will seep through when the water wont!
Ralph
Emp to Wings.. Livermore
do not archive
>
> Dave, How heavy do you think the tank will be when it is full of fuel?
>
> All of your points are correct but hardly likely to effect the
> life of the tank. Remember, one has to sump tanks to remove condensation.
>
Message 8
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--> RV9-List message posted by: rv9@3rivers.net
I agree with Ralph. The surface tension of water is much greater than fuel.
Really, I feel the easy way is to connect a water manometer to the vent line,
and screw a tire valve in the drain fitting. CAREFULLY pressurize your tank
with the air hose to about 12 or 15 inches of water column. The tank volume is
great enough that if you go easy, it won't suddenly go to several pounds and
blow your tank up like a football.
The key is, put a digital thermometer near the tank. Temperature changes make
the water manometer go up and down a lot. But that is good.....it means it is
sensitive to very small leaks. Leave it sit for a few days, and note the water
column at various temps. When the temp is the same, the level should be the
same if it is not leaking. You can lightly grease the fuel cap O-rings and
make sure they are adjusted snug.
Mine sat for nearly two weeks, and still showed within a half inch of the same
pressure at 70 degrees. They have been full of fuel for a month and a half,
and do not leak. However, when I'm flying, the fuel level drops about 6
gallons per hour!
Gary
Quoting Ralph Cloud <rv9ralph@flash.net>:
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Ralph Cloud" <rv9ralph@flash.net>
>
>
> Cy, as always your answer is right on. However, one thing you did not
> address...
>
> Blood is thicker than water... and... wanter is thicker than AvGas. The
> fuel will seep through when the water wont!
>
> Ralph
> Emp to Wings.. Livermore
>
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