Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:24 AM - Re: Baffling pictures (Leland)
2. 07:46 AM - Re: Firewall insulation (rv9@3rivers.net)
3. 10:03 AM - [ Jim Cone ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
4. 10:40 AM - Re: RV9a W & B (Steve Sampson)
5. 10:43 AM - Re: Firewall insulation (Steve Sampson)
6. 04:24 PM - Re: Dimples, rivets and gaps (Terry Hobert)
7. 05:28 PM - Alodine (Paul Pflimlin)
8. 05:38 PM - What is this engine worth? (Mark Schrimmer)
9. 05:47 PM - Re: Alodine (Merems)
10. 05:59 PM - Re: Alodine (Gerry Filby)
11. 07:01 PM - Re: What is this engine worth? (Stein Bruch)
12. 07:09 PM - Re: Alodine (Mike Hoover)
13. 07:14 PM - Re: What is this engine worth? (Roger Ping)
14. 07:33 PM - Re: Alodine (Paul Pflimlin)
15. 07:59 PM - Re: What is this engine worth? (Paul Pflimlin)
16. 08:42 PM - Passenger control stick alignment (F-665) (Matthew Brandes)
17. 09:21 PM - Re: What is this engine worth? (Stein Bruch)
18. 09:25 PM - Re: Alodine (Richard E. Tasker)
19. 09:27 PM - Re: Passenger control stick alignment (F-665) (Albert Gardner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Baffling pictures |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Leland <Federigo@pacbell.net>
Thanks Andy. The pictures of the Inlet Baffle Ramp and the Front Baffle
Seal are especially useful. Question: can you install and remove the
back baffles after parts 5 and 6 are riveted together? Part 5 contains
the oil cooler.
Leland in Pleasanton
Not as Baffled as I was
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall insulation |
--> RV9-List message posted by: rv9@3rivers.net
Hi, Steve. I followed about the same line of reasoning as you. I put good
sound deadening insulation and carpet on the floor. I also cut the same
insualtion to fit the firewall, but never installed it. I don't think noise is
a factor, most people have commented mine seems fairly quiet in the cockpit.
It feels like I am getting some heat, since my oil cooler is firewall mounted,
and exhausts down the firewall. It has been mostly cool to cold weather so
far. If I seem to be getting too much heat in the summer, I may install the
insulation. But, since it is good sound deadening, it is quite heavy, so I'll
do without the firewall portion if I can.
Gary 75 hours.
Quoting Steve Sampson <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>:
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
> I would be interested to know how many are insulating the firewall? I
> believe the VANS demonstrator is bare and I supose since one wears a headset
> noise is not a significant issue? Heat?
>
> Anyone flying without insulation? Would you do it the same way again?
>
> I certainly intend to put some carpet on the floor, to protect it and I have
> heard it said there is significant drumming from the exhaust through it but
> lean towards weight saving on the firewall.
>
> Steve
> Wheel Pants
> #90360
> UK
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | [ Jim Cone ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jim Cone <jimnbev@olypen.com>
Subject: Jim Cone's Canopy Installation Instructions
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jimnbev@olypen.com.02.17.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 4
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Roger - your list is interesting. Even with O-320 fixed metal there is about
a 60lb range. Have you worked out how this can be? Any idea what an extra
coat of paint weighs? Instrumentation I can see varying by perhaps 20lb but
not much more. I assume everyone uses all the bits VANS sends!
Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Evenson
Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV9a W & B
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" <revenson@comcast.net>
That might have been me. I was trying to compare avg Lycoming weights with
Subaru weights. Here's the Lycoming info. It didn't format well coming out
of an excel spreadsheet, but if you are interested the numbers are
decipherable. Roger E.
RV9A's avg who's O320 O320FP O320CS
0235, wood, no paint, electric panel 990 wesley
0320, wood, no paint 1032 gary 1032 1032
0320, metal fixed, paint electric ifr 1104 albert 1104 1104
0320, constant, vfr 1087 jim 1087 1087
0320, metal fixed, no paint, full vfr 1034 andy 1034 1034
0320, metal fixed, w/paint, skytech 1079 dick 1079 1079
0360, constant 1178 earl
O235 960 stan
0320, CS hartzell 1100 dave 1100 1100
0320, CS hartzell, elec ifr no paint 1083 chris 1083 1083
0320, fixed metal 1078 don 1078 1078
0320, fixed metal 1055 owen 1055 1055
O320, fixed metal 1048 bob 1048 1048
mean 1063.6923 1070 1061.429 1090
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Firewall insulation |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Andy - that is really helpful. You have confirmed my view. Yet another thing
I dont need. Steve.
PS I think the UK can compete very effectively with the NW for cool damp
weather!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Karmy
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Firewall insulation
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
I flew with no insulation, or carpet for 20 hours at first. Then added
sound pad and carpet later. I still have nothing on the firewall and
don't think it would make much difference. Most of the noise
comes from the exhaust on the floor boards, so carpet and sound
proofing work good there. There is also quite a bit of air noise
from the canopy and other locations. With ANR headsets it's quiet
enough... I don't know about heat, here in the NW it's never hot
enough so...
- Andy
---------- Original Message
----------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
<SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>I would be interested to know how many are insulating the
firewall? I
>believe the VANS demonstrator is bare and I supose since one
wears a headset
>noise is not a significant issue? Heat?
>
>Anyone flying without insulation? Would you do it the same way
again?
>
>I certainly intend to put some carpet on the floor, to protect it
and I have
>heard it said there is significant drumming from the exhaust
through it but
>lean towards weight saving on the firewall.
>
>Steve
>Wheel Pants
>#90360
>UK
>
>---
>
>
>_-
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>_-
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>_-
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>_-
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>
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 6
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| Subject: | Dimples, rivets and gaps |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Terry Hobert" <terhobey@hotmail.com>
Gerry,
Throughout my building at times if a dimple is to shallow I have taken the
deburing tool and run it in the dimple some. Don't get carried away, but
you can end up with really nice fits that way. Van's evens mentions this in
some parts of the manual. They will tell you to do so on the rear spar on
the wings. Hope that helps.
Terry Hobert 9a fuselage
>From: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
>Reply-To: rv9-list@matronics.com
>To: rv9-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV9-List: Dimples, rivets and gaps
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:02:02 -0800
>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
>
>
>Getting ready to rivet up the VS. My reading of the
>recommendations for dimpling vs countersinking leads me to
>believe that the spars in the VS should be dimpled to accept
>the dimples in the skin. The spars are too thin to be
>countersunk. So that's the way I went.
>
>But when I cleco the ribs, spars and skins together after
>dimpling - there is a gap between the skins and the spars, they
>don't sit perfectly flush against each other- probably less
>than half a millimeter of gap. The interlocking dimples does
>make the assembled structure quite rigid, but still I'm
>concerned ... seems like the rivets might "work" over time. I
>would really like to see the skins flat against the spars.
>
>When I countersank the HS spars it led to a much nicer mate
>with the skins. Am I going in the right direction here ?
>
>g
>
>==========================================================
>Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
> Home (415) 239 4846
> Cell (415) 203 9177
>
>
Say good-bye to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial
offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/
Message 7
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
I am unable to locate the product "Alodine" at any chemical outlet in Northern
Nevada. Does anyone know of a generic name for this product?
Message 8
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| Subject: | What is this engine worth? |
RV-9 List <rv9-list@matronics.com>
--> RV9-List message posted by: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer@pacbell.net>
Anybody care to guess what this engine is worth? The seller and I are trying
to determine a fair price. Here are the details . . .
Lycoming 0-320-E2D
150 h.p.
Two cylinders in the 60s, two in the mid 70s
Uses about 1 quart of oil every 10 hours
Approximately 3,400 hours total time
Approximately 1,200 hours since overhaul by an A&P
Comes with a MA4-SPA carb with metal float
Comes with a 149 tooth starter ring
Uses an oil screen, not a filter
Oil changed every 25 hours since overhaul
All ADs complied with
The present owner is going to re-use the accessories on his new engine, so
the magnetos, starter, alternator, vacuum pump, oil cooler, etc. are not
included.
Thanks,
Mark
Message 9
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Merems" <merems@cox.net>
Paul,
I purchased my Alodine/iradite and metalprep/alumiprep from http://autobodydepot.net. Their shipping was very reasonable.
Paul Merems RV-4/RV-7A
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Pflimlin
To: rv7-list@matronics.com ; rv9-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 6:34 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Alodine
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
I am unable to locate the product "Alodine" at any chemical outlet in Northern
Nevada. Does anyone know of a generic name for this product?
Message 10
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--> RV9-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
I know some folks don't like Aircraft Spruce - but they sell it
in various quantities ...
g
>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
>
> I am unable to locate the product "Alodine" at any chemical
> outlet in Northern Nevada. Does anyone know of a generic name
> for this product?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
RV-9 #90842
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Home (415) 239 4846
Cell (415) 203 9177
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: What is this engine worth? |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
I'd say oil consumption is ok,. so the bottom end is probably ok. I'd go for a
top overhaul, with new cylinders. That will run you around $3500, add a few
other goodies and you should have a great engine with an addition of less than
$5K.
That means the core should be worth no more than $7500.00 and here's why.... To
get that engine up to nearly new shape will take a minimum of $4-5K making your
total expense somewhere around $11-13K. You shouldn't spend any more than
that for a good O-320, since you can pick up an O-360 kit for $14-15K.
As far as accessories go, the prestolite starters are dirt cheap, carbs are $4-600.00
for overhauled ones, so you've got to buy everything else anyway. Same
price whether it's a 320 or 360.
Just my 2 cents!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer@pacbell.net>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer@pacbell.net>
>
>Anybody care to guess what this engine is worth? The seller and I are trying
>to determine a fair price. Here are the details . . .
>
>Lycoming 0-320-E2D
>150 h.p.
>Two cylinders in the 60s, two in the mid 70s
>Uses about 1 quart of oil every 10 hours
>Approximately 3,400 hours total time
>Approximately 1,200 hours since overhaul by an A&P
>Comes with a MA4-SPA carb with metal float
>Comes with a 149 tooth starter ring
>Uses an oil screen, not a filter
>Oil changed every 25 hours since overhaul
>All ADs complied with
>
>The present owner is going to re-use the accessories on his new engine, so
>the magnetos, starter, alternator, vacuum pump, oil cooler, etc. are not
>included.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mark
>
>
Message 12
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Mike Hoover" <mikehoover@sc.rr.com>
DuPont sells the equivalent 226 - their version of alodine. I get it at my
local FinishMaster.
Mike
Wings...slow but deliberate
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf@gerf.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Alodine
> --> RV9-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
>
> I know some folks don't like Aircraft Spruce - but they sell it
> in various quantities ...
>
> g
>
> >
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
> >
> > I am unable to locate the product "Alodine" at any chemical
> > outlet in Northern Nevada. Does anyone know of a generic name
> > for this product?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> RV-9 #90842
> ==========================================================
> Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
> Home (415) 239 4846
> Cell (415) 203 9177
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | What is this engine worth? |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Roger Ping" <rpping@qwest.net>
Wait, wait first of all you can find a complete engine core for around
$5000. to $6000. Oil consumption has nothing to do with the lower end.
With compression that low I don't believe the oil consumption figure.
It's an E series engine so chances are it has a 2 piece front bearing
and cant be bumped up to 160 hp.
Figure $1000 for cylinders.
Carbs are $600. for and O/H WITH a core
Just my nickle
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Subject: Re: RV9-List: What is this engine worth?
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
I'd say oil consumption is ok,. so the bottom end is probably ok. I'd
go for a top overhaul, with new cylinders. That will run you around
$3500, add a few other goodies and you should have a great engine with
an addition of less than $5K.
That means the core should be worth no more than $7500.00 and here's
why.... To get that engine up to nearly new shape will take a minimum of
$4-5K making your total expense somewhere around $11-13K. You shouldn't
spend any more than that for a good O-320, since you can pick up an
O-360 kit for $14-15K.
As far as accessories go, the prestolite starters are dirt cheap, carbs
are $4-600.00 for overhauled ones, so you've got to buy everything else
anyway. Same price whether it's a 320 or 360.
Just my 2 cents!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer@pacbell.net>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer@pacbell.net>
>
>Anybody care to guess what this engine is worth? The seller and I are
trying
>to determine a fair price. Here are the details . . .
>
>Lycoming 0-320-E2D
>150 h.p.
>Two cylinders in the 60s, two in the mid 70s
>Uses about 1 quart of oil every 10 hours
>Approximately 3,400 hours total time
>Approximately 1,200 hours since overhaul by an A&P
>Comes with a MA4-SPA carb with metal float
>Comes with a 149 tooth starter ring
>Uses an oil screen, not a filter
>Oil changed every 25 hours since overhaul
>All ADs complied with
>
>The present owner is going to re-use the accessories on his new engine,
so
>the magnetos, starter, alternator, vacuum pump, oil cooler, etc. are
not
>included.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mark
>
>
==
==
==
==
Message 14
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Merems" <merems@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Alodine
Thanks to all in response to Alodine question. My last purchase of Alodine
from Spruce included interstate Haz-Mat charge, that was almost as much as
the product. I took Paul Merems advice and placed an order with Autobody
Depot. They advertise NO Haz-Mat chg. I am still curious though if Alodine
is Just a name for a generic product? Thanks to all. Paul P. RV-7A Fuse.
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Merems" <merems@cox.net>
>
> Paul,
>
> I purchased my Alodine/iradite and metalprep/alumiprep from
http://autobodydepot.net. Their shipping was very reasonable.
>
> Paul Merems RV-4/RV-7A
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Pflimlin
> To: rv7-list@matronics.com ; rv9-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 6:34 PM
> Subject: RV9-List: Alodine
>
>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
>
> I am unable to locate the product "Alodine" at any chemical outlet in
Northern Nevada. Does anyone know of a generic name for this product?
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: What is this engine worth? |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer@pacbell.net>
<rv9-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV9-List: What is this engine worth?
Strictly core, about 4k. and hope the crank is useable.
> --> RV9-List message posted by: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer@pacbell.net>
>
> Anybody care to guess what this engine is worth? The seller and I are
trying
> to determine a fair price. Here are the details . . .
>
> Lycoming 0-320-E2D
> 150 h.p.
> Two cylinders in the 60s, two in the mid 70s
> Uses about 1 quart of oil every 10 hours
> Approximately 3,400 hours total time
> Approximately 1,200 hours since overhaul by an A&P
> Comes with a MA4-SPA carb with metal float
> Comes with a 149 tooth starter ring
> Uses an oil screen, not a filter
> Oil changed every 25 hours since overhaul
> All ADs complied with
>
> The present owner is going to re-use the accessories on his new engine, so
> the magnetos, starter, alternator, vacuum pump, oil cooler, etc. are not
> included.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Passenger control stick alignment (F-665) |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
I bolted the control sticks onto the spar last night and noticed that the passenger
control stick leans to the left when the pilot stick is straight. I checked
the F-665 rod connecting the two sticks and they were 18 7/8" as the plans
state. In order to get both sticks to be vertical, I have to screw the rod ends
almost all the way in.
Anybody else notice this? Is my right eye crooked??
Matthew
RV-9A Fuselage
EAA Chapter 868
www.n523rv.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | What is this engine worth? |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
HI Roger,
You are right about the oil consumption / compression being a bit suspect, but
the possible answer is that the rings could be ok, and it has leaky valves/seats...but,
more than likely if the compressions are in the 60's, then it's probably
using more than 2in10.
Also, even with the narrow front bearing, some people have bumped them to 160hp
anyway. Not me...I have an old narrow deck, narrow bearing 150hp. Physically,
I could have bumped it to 160hp with just the 360 pistons and the 360 thru
bolts which would then allow the hold down plates to be installed on the narrow
deck cylinders. Anyway, enough rambling.
You are probably closer on price for 5K. I'd have to have a good look at the logs,
etc..
Probably right to consider it a core, but new cylinders are easily had from both
ECI and Superior for the low $800's. I just bought 4 new ECI steel Titans for
$835 each with pins/pistons. Add a bit more if you need the rockers re-faced,
etc..
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis (Recently Overhauled my own O-320 150hp).
http://www.steinair.com
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Roger Ping" <rpping@qwest.net>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Roger Ping" <rpping@qwest.net>
>
>Wait, wait first of all you can find a complete engine core for around
>$5000. to $6000. Oil consumption has nothing to do with the lower end.
>With compression that low I don't believe the oil consumption figure.
>
>It's an E series engine so chances are it has a 2 piece front bearing
>and cant be bumped up to 160 hp.
> Figure $1000 for cylinders.
>Carbs are $600. for and O/H WITH a core
>
>Just my nickle
Message 18
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Alodine is a registered trademark of Henkel Surface Technologies.
Although they are the only ones that can sell "alodine" there are
substitutes and other similar formulations from other companies. They
sell the alodine along with other chemicals for working with aluminum on
the following website - choose "store" and you will eventually get to
the "store" where you can order their chemicals.
https://www.buyhstna.com/aboutus.htm
I don't know how the place you ordered it from gets away without a
haz-mat charge. The haz-mat cost from Henkel is rolled into the
material cost so the more you buy, the less per gallon it costs.
Dick Tasker
Paul Pflimlin wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Merems" <merems@cox.net>
>To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV9-List: Alodine
>
>Thanks to all in response to Alodine question. My last purchase of Alodine
>from Spruce included interstate Haz-Mat charge, that was almost as much as
>the product. I took Paul Merems advice and placed an order with Autobody
>Depot. They advertise NO Haz-Mat chg. I am still curious though if Alodine
>is Just a name for a generic product? Thanks to all. Paul P. RV-7A Fuse.
>
>
>
>>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Merems" <merems@cox.net>
>>
>>Paul,
>>
>>I purchased my Alodine/iradite and metalprep/alumiprep from
>>
>>
>http://autobodydepot.net. Their shipping was very reasonable.
>
>
>>Paul Merems RV-4/RV-7A
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Paul Pflimlin
>> To: rv7-list@matronics.com ; rv9-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 6:34 PM
>> Subject: RV9-List: Alodine
>>
>>
>> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
>>
>> I am unable to locate the product "Alodine" at any chemical outlet in
>>
>>
>Northern Nevada. Does anyone know of a generic name for this product?
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Passenger control stick alignment (F-665) |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <spudnut@worldnet.att.net>
Assuming you don't have a problem with proper spacing somewhere, that's the
way you make them both vertical.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Passenger control stick alignment (F-665)
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
>
> I bolted the control sticks onto the spar last night and noticed that the
passenger control stick leans to the left when the pilot stick is straight.
I checked the F-665 rod connecting the two sticks and they were 18 7/8" as
the plans state. In order to get both sticks to be vertical, I have to
screw the rod ends almost all the way in.
>
> Anybody else notice this? Is my right eye crooked??
>
> Matthew
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