Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:33 AM - Re: Fire Extinguisher (John Oliveira)
2. 07:10 AM - Airbox (Leland)
3. 08:41 AM - Re: Fire Extinguisher (Clay R)
4. 10:32 AM - Re: Oil Canning on lower wing skin (Steve Sampson)
5. 04:57 PM - Re: Fire Extinguisher (JohnCClarkVA@cs.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguisher |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "John Oliveira" <oliveira@frontiernet.net>
I may be wrong, but I thought Halon worked by aggressively replacing all the
air in a compartment with an inert gas. I did not think you wanted it in a
passenger compartment as if it is sealed it will extinguish Humans as well
as the fire.
Also, since it works in that manner rather than by smothering the fire with
a retardant, it may not be all that effective because of outside ventilation
coming into the cockpit.
John Oliveira
working of fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fire Extinguisher
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
>
> Norman,
>
> I just wanted to put a "me too" in there for the info on the H3R site.
>
> Disclosure: I did word processing work for Steve Berg (the founder) about
> nine years ago, and saw his demo for putting electrical fires out. It was
> impressive.
>
> And I did buy a Halonaire extinguisher from him to contribute to the
Tiger's
> onboard equipment. Haven't had to use it, but it's good to know that the
> panel won't get wasted by the extinguisher.
>
> Cory
>
> > >
> > > See this site for more info on Halon.
> > > http://www.h3r.com/
> >
> > My aircraft is being built primarily for higher altitude XC so I feel a
> > Halon system under the cowl is very important. Think how long it would
> take
> > you to get on the ground from 10,000.
> >
>
>
Message 2
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--> RV9-List message posted by: Leland <Federigo@pacbell.net>
I am having trouble fabricating the airbox with all of Van's required
items, which are: airbox short enough so lower cowl can be dropped
straight down (with prop in place), an upward bend in the top plate so
incoming air makes a smoother transition, room for the rubber baffle
seal material to be riveted on, and enough length so the carb-heat door
can swing back without hitting the filter. I have an O320D1A (new engine
from Van's) with a fixed pitch prop. A constant speed prop installation
would not present as much difficulty with the airbox because its cowling
is longer. Did anybody else have this problem with the airbox?
Leland in Pleasanton, California
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguisher |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Clay R <clayr_55@yahoo.com>
Halon in the cowl (or in a computer room) is designed
to add enough halon to the air to smother the fire.
(approx 4%) In such an installed system, the jets
can't be "pre-aimed" at the fire so they have to flood
the entire area and hope for the best.
If you have a fire in the cockpit, you want a small
handheld extinguisher you can use to shoot a blast
directly at the fire. This will put the fire out in
an instant. You can then get your vents open for some
fresh air to clear the smoke and halon.
There are recommendations in AC 20-42C for the maximum
size system for in-cabin use to avoid smothering the
occupants. The 10lb system mentioned previously for an
RV cabin is much, much too big and unnecessary.
See the Advisory Circular here:
http://www.h3r.com/halon/ac2042c.htm
If you think about it, the smoke IS going to kill you,
so using some Halon to stop the fire and smoke to give
you an opportunity to get some fresh air is your only
choice.
-Clay
--- John Oliveira <oliveira@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "John Oliveira"
> <oliveira@frontiernet.net>
>
> I may be wrong, but I thought Halon worked by
> aggressively replacing all the
> air in a compartment with an inert gas. I did not
> think you wanted it in a
> passenger compartment as if it is sealed it will
> extinguish Humans as well
> as the fire.
>
> Also, since it works in that manner rather than by
> smothering the fire with
> a retardant, it may not be all that effective
> because of outside ventilation
> coming into the cockpit.
__________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Oil Canning on lower wing skin |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Pete - I am no expert but had the same problem. It was not acceptable to me.
I drilled it out and rerivetted in a different order and the problem went
away. The movement was minute in the metal but enough to loose the 'extra'.
I am sorry but I forget more details than that.
Steve.
#90360
UK
PS Perhaps the problem was I had not rivetted strictly from the centre to
the edges.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Pete Howell
Subject: RV9-List: Oil Canning on lower wing skin
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
Hello,
I am just about done riveting my outboard lower wing skin on my QB wing an I
have oil canning in the innermost bay. It looks to be about 1/4" movement
with concave being the predominant state. Is this acceptable? If not what
is the remedy? It is the same bay as the access panel so I can get behind
the skin.
TIA - Pete
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Extinguisher |
--> RV9-List message posted by: JohnCClarkVA@cs.com
The potential harmful effects of Halon are minor when compared the the
extreme danger of an open fire in the cockpit. If the flame is big enough to cause
Halon to break down and create toxic fumes, Halon or its byproducts are not
your problem. If you fight the fire agressively, you won't need much halon and
it will decompose very little. Check out
https://www.ntsb.gov/Recs/letters/letters.htm and look for A01-83 through 87. Look on about page 8 or 9 for a
discussion of the subject. The AC overstates the risks at the expense of the
benefits. Also the entire rec letter may be of interest although it deals with
airline in-flight fire fighting training.
If you have an engine compartment fire, first thing is to shut off the fuel
source if you can. If it is a fuel fire, that is easy. If it is an oil fed
fire, I guess you can shut down the engine. Not sure how good Halon would be
under the cowl because of the ventilation but it does not take much and it is
fast.
Also, keep combustibles off the back side of the firewall. A fire in front
will quickly autoignite anything flammable on the backside. Most foams that
are readily available are very flammable, and pound for pound, a great energy
source. Forward or aft of the firewall, keep it clean, free of buildup. John.
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