---------------------------------------------------------- RV9-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/11/04: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:37 AM - The List Fund Raiser - Great Gifts! (Matt Dralle) 2. 05:52 AM - Re: Aileron Twist (fcs@jlc.net) 3. 08:48 AM - Re: Horizontal Stabilizer Ribs (Jen Coull) 4. 01:22 PM - CH Products Control Stick Switches Electrical Specifications (Richard Tasker) 5. 03:16 PM - Re: Aileron Twist (Roger Ping) 6. 07:38 PM - Re: Aileron Twist (DThomas773@AOL.COM) 7. 09:07 PM - Re: Horizontal Stabilizer Ribs (Ralph Cloud) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:22 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV9-List: The List Fund Raiser - Great Gifts! --> RV9-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Just a reminder that we're well into this year's Email List Fund Raiser! Response has been great so far and there has been a lot of interest in the Gift options. Speaking of those Gifts, if you haven't already checked out the nice selection you owe it to yourself to check them out. They are once again provided by Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com. The gifts this year include the following items: * List Archive CD * Aircraft Fuel Tester * Builder's Logbook * Mechanic's Toolbox CDROM * 24 Years of the RVator * Powerplant Video * Jeppesen VFR Kneeboard Won't you make a Contribution today to support the these valuable Email List Services? Please remember that its YOUR generosity that entirely supports the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists. That's it - no ads, no banners, no SPAM, no virus, no pop-up ads - just good clean fun! Well, that is, with your support of course! Please take a moment and make a generous Contribution today. It only takes a minute using the Contribution Web Site where you can use either a Credit Card, PayPal, or a Personal Check to make your donation. The URL for the SSL Secure Contribution web site can be found below and also includes a complete description of this year's awesome gifts: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I'd like to say a special "thank you!" to everyone one who has made Contribution so far this year!! I really appreciate your generosity! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:43 AM PST US From: "fcs@jlc.net" Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aileron Twist --> RV9-List message posted by: "fcs@jlc.net" Glenn, you've been bitten by the classic "straight-but-not-true" bug. You are correct in your assessment that it will not be lined up when you hang it on the wing. You will need to drill out the rivets in the innermost and outermost ribs and possibly even the trailing edge rivets and have at it again, this time on a perfectly flat surface. I did the same thing on my first aileron, but I sensed that it was going bad after a small number of rivets. My solution was to stand the wings on their nose-stand cradles and build the flaps and ailerons while hinged in place. This way I could use my fuselage longeron angles as clamps along the entire trailing edge during construction and be absolutely guaranteed of straight and true trailing edges. You can still pre-rivet the stiffeners and forward rows of rivets, but if you clamp them together like this when you do the trailing edge and end ribs, you should have an easier time with it. You only need to "tack" a few rivets to set the shape, then you can remove them to do the final riveting. In case anyone is wondering, during normal flight maneuvers the ailerons are so sensitive that I rarely see them move more than about 1/2" up or down. ...thus a 1/2" twist is an obvious no-go and must be fixed. Gary ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:38 AM PST US From: "Jen Coull" Subject: RE: RV9-List: Horizontal Stabilizer Ribs --> RV9-List message posted by: "Jen Coull" Sounds to me like you haven't fluted the ribs or you haven't fluted them enough. There may be a small mis-alignment, but you should still be able to get the cleco in the hole. Also I did have a single bad rib in my kit, it was stamped backwards and all of the "factory flutes" fell right on top of the holes. The flutes should always be between rivet holes, never on a hole. Van's promptly replaced my rib, but I doubt you got an entire batch of bad ribs. Jen Coull Lake Worth, FL 90349 - Tanks ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:49 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: RV9-List: CH Products Control Stick Switches Electrical Specifications --> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker There has been discussions about the CH Products control sticks (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/aircraft.html) on the newsgroups lately. I have two of them, but there was a question about what the switch ratings were. I contacted Kevin Williamson of CH Products and he was kind enough to supply me with a set of sample switches (from Omron) and the part numbers thereof. I downloaded the complete data sheet from the web, reviewed the specifications and then called the Omron factory representative. There are a few minor errors in the datasheet available on the web, so the rep emailed me the revised (corrected) sheets. I also discussed with him the specifications listed and got clarification, although it turned out that when I received the revised data sheets, the specification is very clear now. The bottom line is that the electrical rating for all three different switches is: 1-50mA, at 5-24V. The explanation for the ratings is: 1. The lower values (1 mA at 5V) are to make sure that the switch sees enough energy when switching to keep the contacts clean. Any lower values would not guarantee that the contacts will always make proper contact over the life of the switch. If for some reason the load being switched is too low, a resistor could be added in parallel with the load to increase the current to at least 1 mA. 2. The higher values (50 mA at 24V) are the maximum values that should be switched that will not damage the switch. Switching any higher loads will risk damaging the contacts - either welding them shut or warping them or causing excessive arc damage - and will certainly shorten the life of the switch. 3. These ratings are for a resistive load, so if they are to be used with a relay or motor the contacts MUST be protected with a diode or other type of snubber network! Of course, the manufacturer always has a margin in the design so if one chooses to switch 55mA at 14V (for instance), the switch will probably still have a reasonable life. However, pushing them to 100 mA or more will definitely shorten the life and may result in a catastrophic failure at some point. These switches are rated for a lot of actuations so their use in an airplane should be no problem. The hat switches are rated for 300,000 operations (minimum), the switches on the top face of the stick are rated for 100,000 operations (minimum) and the trigger (typically used for push-to-talk) is rated for 1,000,000 operations (minimum). To put these numbers in perspective, let's assume you make one flight every day for ten years. For each flight you could use the hat switch to trim the airplane 82 times in each direction, you could actuate the flaps (assuming that is what you use the two gray switches on the top of the stick for) 27 times each up and down and you could push-to-talk 274 times. I am satisfied that the switches used are as robust as you will find and the ratings are adequate for the task. Just don't go overboard on what you connect direct to the switches and your CH Products control stick will have a long and happy life! Dick Tasker ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:46 PM PST US From: "Roger Ping" Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aileron Twist --> RV9-List message posted by: "Roger Ping" Hi Glenn, the same thing happened to me. Makes you wonder if the predrilled holes aren't a little off. I did notice the twist before riveting the other side together on my first one so I broke out some extra weight (lead bullets) and when I was done it came out pretty close. As I remember 5/32". I do, although, have noticeable diagonal wave in the reflection off the bottom skin. I paid very close attention on my next aileron and still ended up with a very slight twist after using LOTS of weight. I think when the plans say weight they mean WEIGHT! I talked to a professional builder in the area and he said press on. He's seen a lot worse. I guess it's up to you. Shouldn't cost too much and only a couple of days to build another one if that's what you choose to do. You can always press on and build another in the future. Don't let it get you down. Keep pounding! Roger Ping 90869 fuselage Peoria AZ -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Brasch Subject: RV9-List: Aileron Twist --> RV9-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" I just completed an aileron. I had no problems whatsoever in the assembly and took the advice of a fellow builder in the trailing edge, which came out near perfect and straight. The problem is when I lay the completed structure flat on a table, one side of the trailing edge is flush, the other is off the table by almost 1/2". Again, the trailing edge is straight, and if I push down on it, it brings up a forward corner. I cannot imagine how this occurred and wondering if anyone else has had this happen. I can only assume this twist should not be, and if it stays, the flaps and/or tips will not be aligned properly when assembled. Your comments are appreciated in advance. Glenn in AZ. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:58 PM PST US From: DThomas773@AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aileron Twist --> RV9-List message posted by: DThomas773@aol.com Hi Glenn, I had the same problem with my first aileron, sacrificed it and built another. I thought my problem lay in not having the assembly on a dead flat surface when I drilled the first ribs to the balance bar. Dennis ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:08 PM PST US From: "Ralph Cloud" Subject: RE: RV9-List: Horizontal Stabilizer Ribs --> RV9-List message posted by: "Ralph Cloud" Did you pull the plastic from the skin. When putting the ribs on the inside, the plastic is enough to keep the ribs from getting into place. Ralph Livermore, wings, Fuse enroute do not archive