Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:11 PM - Paper or Plastic-A warning about primers (Merems)
2. 07:03 PM - Re: Paper or Plastic-A warning about primers (Larry Rosen)
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"RV10 Group" <RV10@yahoogroups.com>, <opticalprod@worldnet.att.net>
| Subject: | Paper or Plastic-A warning about primers |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Merems" <merems@cox.net>
Fellow builders,
Please take the time to read this email. I spent a bit of time writing it in the
hopes that it prevent another builder/builders from experiencing my blunder
this morning.
I will try my literary skills this morning to help entertain and educate. This
may be a little long winded but I need to vent.
Southern Arizona may sound like the great place to live. Warm winters, beautiful
sunsets, low humidity, wide open spaces and great flying weather makes this
state seem ideal. However, the summers can be another story.
At 5:30 this morning the temperature is 80 degrees and rising. The morning sun
is angling into the entrance of my shop (my garage door faces east). The temperature
is rising and I know I only have about an hour to setup and spray my primer
before Mother Nature forces me to quit for the day; I spray my primer outside
like many RV builders. You might be asking yourself why not primer late in
the day when the sun is going down or at least in the shade? Midday the temperature
is over 100, by late afternoon (when my garage casts a shadow providing
shade) the temperature is hovering around 104-106. This is way too hot to spray.
At this temp and low humidity most of the primer dries before it reaches
the parts. Not to mention the surface temperature of the parts is a bit too high.
In addition, the afternoons are a bit breezy while the mornings are pretty
calm. The mornings are the only option for me this time of year.
I proceeded to setup my 4'x8' wire mesh paint platform and drop clothes (painters
plastics) outside the entrance to my shop. I had decided to debur and prep
many of RV-7A fuselage parts so I could spray them at the same time-more efficient
I thought. I would guess that I had about 75% or more of the fuselage components
(excluding the skins) ready for primer painting. That is a very large
number of parts. It has taken a lot of time to clean and prep all these parts,
I started weeks back.
I am on my second RV. My first was an RV-4 years ago. Back then I used a wash primer
but I don't remember the brand, it was gray in color, very similar to the
Sherwin Williams (SW) wash primer. Unfortunately it was no longer available.
I decided to use the SW wash primer on my RV-7A. I used it on the empennage and
wings, but I was never happy with the results. Spitting chunks was a big problem.
I never had that problem with the old gray wash primer on my RV-4. When
I built my RV-4 I sprayed my primer using a Docken spray gun. This is a very
simple siphon gun that is similar to the Badger hobby store paint guns. It used
disposable 16 oz cups. It made cleaning up after spaying quick and easy, just
through the cup away when you were done.
As I mentioned, I was not happy with the results I was getting from the SW wash
primer. I decided to use the AKSO epoxy primer for the rest of my RV-7A project.
And since I was using a new primer, I bought a new gun (HVLP) to apply it.
Now this is where the paper or plastic fits into this long winded story.
Like the SW wash primer, the AKSO is a two component system. I had several 16 oz
cups left over from my Docken spray gun days and I have been using them for
mixing the SW wash primer prior to loading spray gun cup. These cups are wax-coated
paper cups (Dixie brand) and over 20 years old. These cups did the job,
but I was running out of them. They seemed to be the "perfect" size for the amount
of primer I was mixing.
A week ago I used the AKSO for the first time. The most significant difference
between the SW wash and the AKSO is the AKSO requires a 30 minute induction time.
This means you mix the two components and wait 30 minutes before spraying.
This gives the two components time to react with each other. The results were
great. I only had a short time to spray so I wanted to learn the behavior of
the new gun and primer to help me plan my larger primer session for this weekend.
Yesterday was a good day. I sprayed two groups of parts. By 7:30 in the morning
the temperature was approaching 90 degrees and I couldn't see through my goggles
well (yes I use a respirator). All the parts in the group were well coated
and it was time to cleanup. One more early morning primer session and all the
parts would be coated, then on to assembly, the fun stuff. So this morning I
would finish the job.
Everything was set in place; parts were on the spray platform and now it was time
to mix the paint. I have been using my Black and Decker Workmate (if you never
used one, they are great tool to have around the shop-one of my most used
tools) as a surface to mix my paints. I laid plastic over it to protect it from
any spills and it was also sitting on some plastic as well. The Workmate was
in the shop so the primers weren't exposed to the heat and sunlight.
I had used up all my 16 oz. cups the day before and I had shopped around weeks
earlier trying to find a replacement. I only found smaller paper cups available
in the local supermarkets but they had larger disposable plastic cups. So I
bought the plastic due to their size. I wanted paper but I needed the larger cup
size.
Life was good, everything was ready to primer and I mixed two batches of primer
(14 oz. each) in my new plastic cups. And off I went to work on a few other things
in the shop while I waited for the induction time (30 minutes) to pass.
After 15 minutes had passed, I went to stir the primer. I noticed one of the cups
was "sagging" a bit.
Alarm bells in my head went off immediately. I grabbed the trashcan. I knew what
was going to happen. The dam was leaking and it was about to rupture. Just as
I lifted up the trashcan the cup dissolved away. None of the primer made it
into the trashcan. Fourteen ounces of the best primer was now on the floor and
covering the base of the Workmate (the plastic covering the surface didn't extend
all the way down to the base). But I knew this was just the beginning. Within
seconds, the second cup dissolved before I could get the trashcan under it
and more epoxy made it onto the floor. Did I mention my shop floor is coated
with an epoxy (two part-water based-gray)? So now I am staring at a rather large
epoxy mess that only acetone will clean up. But acetone will also dissolve
my epoxy floor coating. Profanities flew and the odor of acetone filled the air.
All is cleaned up now. My epoxy coated floor looks chemically abused and my Workmate
base is camouflage colored and ready to report for military duty. I have
wasted precious primer and delayed my progress once again. Hopefully next Friday
I will have everything rapped up.
The moral of the story is:
When given the choice paper or plastic, choose paper.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Paper or Plastic-A warning about primers |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Thanks for the entertaining and well written post. I just had to laugh
as the story played out. I am not laughing at you but rather with you.
Because in situations like that that is all you can do. No one was hurt
and your workmate now has a little olive drab character.
Thanks for the advice
Larry Rosen
Merems wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Merems" <merems@cox.net>
>
>Fellow builders,
>
>Please take the time to read this email. I spent a bit of time writing it in
the hopes that it prevent another builder/builders from experiencing my blunder
this morning.
>
>I will try my literary skills this morning to help entertain and educate. This
may be a little long winded but I need to vent.
>
>Southern Arizona may sound like the great place to live. Warm winters, beautiful
sunsets, low humidity, wide open spaces and great flying weather makes this
state seem ideal. However, the summers can be another story.
>
>At 5:30 this morning the temperature is 80 degrees and rising. The morning sun
is angling into the entrance of my shop (my garage door faces east). The temperature
is rising and I know I only have about an hour to setup and spray my primer
before Mother Nature forces me to quit for the day; I spray my primer outside
like many RV builders. You might be asking yourself why not primer late
in the day when the sun is going down or at least in the shade? Midday the temperature
is over 100, by late afternoon (when my garage casts a shadow providing
shade) the temperature is hovering around 104-106. This is way too hot to spray.
At this temp and low humidity most of the primer dries before it reaches
the parts. Not to mention the surface temperature of the parts is a bit too high.
In addition, the afternoons are a bit breezy while the mornings are pretty
calm. The mornings are the only option for me this time of year.
>
>I proceeded to setup my 4'x8' wire mesh paint platform and drop clothes (painters
plastics) outside the entrance to my shop. I had decided to debur and prep
many of RV-7A fuselage parts so I could spray them at the same time-more efficient
I thought. I would guess that I had about 75% or more of the fuselage components
(excluding the skins) ready for primer painting. That is a very large
number of parts. It has taken a lot of time to clean and prep all these parts,
I started weeks back.
>
>I am on my second RV. My first was an RV-4 years ago. Back then I used a wash
primer but I don't remember the brand, it was gray in color, very similar to the
Sherwin Williams (SW) wash primer. Unfortunately it was no longer available.
I decided to use the SW wash primer on my RV-7A. I used it on the empennage
and wings, but I was never happy with the results. Spitting chunks was a big problem.
I never had that problem with the old gray wash primer on my RV-4. When
I built my RV-4 I sprayed my primer using a Docken spray gun. This is a very
simple siphon gun that is similar to the Badger hobby store paint guns. It used
disposable 16 oz cups. It made cleaning up after spaying quick and easy, just
through the cup away when you were done.
>
>As I mentioned, I was not happy with the results I was getting from the SW wash
primer. I decided to use the AKSO epoxy primer for the rest of my RV-7A project.
And since I was using a new primer, I bought a new gun (HVLP) to apply it.
>
>Now this is where the paper or plastic fits into this long winded story.
>
>Like the SW wash primer, the AKSO is a two component system. I had several 16
oz cups left over from my Docken spray gun days and I have been using them for
mixing the SW wash primer prior to loading spray gun cup. These cups are wax-coated
paper cups (Dixie brand) and over 20 years old. These cups did the job,
but I was running out of them. They seemed to be the "perfect" size for the amount
of primer I was mixing.
>
>A week ago I used the AKSO for the first time. The most significant difference
between the SW wash and the AKSO is the AKSO requires a 30 minute induction time.
This means you mix the two components and wait 30 minutes before spraying.
This gives the two components time to react with each other. The results were
great. I only had a short time to spray so I wanted to learn the behavior of
the new gun and primer to help me plan my larger primer session for this weekend.
>
>Yesterday was a good day. I sprayed two groups of parts. By 7:30 in the morning
the temperature was approaching 90 degrees and I couldn't see through my goggles
well (yes I use a respirator). All the parts in the group were well coated
and it was time to cleanup. One more early morning primer session and all the
parts would be coated, then on to assembly, the fun stuff. So this morning I
would finish the job.
>
>Everything was set in place; parts were on the spray platform and now it was time
to mix the paint. I have been using my Black and Decker Workmate (if you never
used one, they are great tool to have around the shop-one of my most used
tools) as a surface to mix my paints. I laid plastic over it to protect it from
any spills and it was also sitting on some plastic as well. The Workmate was
in the shop so the primers weren't exposed to the heat and sunlight.
>
>I had used up all my 16 oz. cups the day before and I had shopped around weeks
earlier trying to find a replacement. I only found smaller paper cups available
in the local supermarkets but they had larger disposable plastic cups. So I
bought the plastic due to their size. I wanted paper but I needed the larger
cup size.
>
>Life was good, everything was ready to primer and I mixed two batches of primer
(14 oz. each) in my new plastic cups. And off I went to work on a few other
things in the shop while I waited for the induction time (30 minutes) to pass.
After 15 minutes had passed, I went to stir the primer. I noticed one of the
cups was "sagging" a bit.
>
>Alarm bells in my head went off immediately. I grabbed the trashcan. I knew what
was going to happen. The dam was leaking and it was about to rupture. Just
as I lifted up the trashcan the cup dissolved away. None of the primer made it
into the trashcan. Fourteen ounces of the best primer was now on the floor and
covering the base of the Workmate (the plastic covering the surface didn't extend
all the way down to the base). But I knew this was just the beginning. Within
seconds, the second cup dissolved before I could get the trashcan under
it and more epoxy made it onto the floor. Did I mention my shop floor is coated
with an epoxy (two part-water based-gray)? So now I am staring at a rather large
epoxy mess that only acetone will clean up. But acetone will also dissolve
my epoxy floor coating. Profanities flew and the odor of acetone filled the
air.
>
>All is cleaned up now. My epoxy coated floor looks chemically abused and my Workmate
base is camouflage colored and ready to report for military duty. I have
wasted precious primer and delayed my progress once again. Hopefully next Friday
I will have everything rapped up.
>
>The moral of the story is:
>
>When given the choice paper or plastic, choose paper.
>
>
>
>
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