Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:47 AM - Re: Richard bad landing (Clay R)
2. 01:01 PM - RV9 landing (was nose gear, etc..) (dedgemon@knology.net)
3. 02:58 PM - Re: Richard bad landing (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Richard bad landing |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Clay R <clayr_55@yahoo.com>
I have the flight data captured from my EFIS/One
during a landing. (also the climb, and various speed
runs at different altitudes)
It shows an indicated airspeed of 39KTS and GPS
groundspeed of 40KTS at the point of touchdown. This
is at 1720' density altitude.
I normally fly my initial approach at 70KTS, then
short final try to be around 65KTS. If I need to make
a short landing, I'll take it down to 60KTS to keep
the flare short.
The worst thing you can do is touch the ground going
too fast. The plane will try to fly again. Be ready
to add power and go around if a gust lifts you off the
ground. The stick should be back and you should stall
while inches above the ground.. resulting in a
squeaker every time. Then gradually keep pulling back
to hold the nose up as long as possible.
My complete spreadsheet of EFIS captured flight data
is available on the RV-9A yahoo group in the files
section. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/files/
Look for RV9APerformanceData.xls
-Clay
--- Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> --> RV9-List message posted by: Charlie England
> <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> Neilekins@aol.com wrote:
>
> >--> RV9-List message posted by: Neilekins@aol.com
> >
> >I can tell you the #s I used. About 75 knots
> approach speed. Just bring it
> >down to the run way and hold it off until it
> settles down on the ground
> >
>
> Apparently we've uncovered Van's 1st deception in
> performance numbers.
> It would seem that the -9's stall speed has been
> grossly understated in
> the literature. :-) Seriously, what are your -9's
> showing at stall, both
> indicated & gps readings compared on a nice calm
> morning? I fly final in
> my -4 at 75 *mph* & it still floats a bit.
>
> Do they stall up around 55-60 kts indicated? That
> would indicate a
> significant low-speed pitot-static error. Not a big
> deal as long as
> everything is flown by indicated speeds & the asi is
> placarded to show
> it. On the other hand, if they stall in the mid 40's
> indicated as Van
> claims, 75 kts could be a reasonable low cruise
> speed. It would be very
> hard to land a nosewheel aircraft that much above
> stall.
>
> Charlie
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | RV9 landing (was nose gear, etc..) |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "dedgemon@knology.net" <dedgemon@knology.net>
Folks,
It sure sounds like some people are landing these airplanes too fast. I
thought I would add my procedures to the mix just for what their worth.
I started flying my 9A in October and currently have 110 hours and a
couple of hundred (at least) landings. Note that I am based on a 2000'
grass strip and regularly fly off of hard surface also.
My "normal" landing is something like the following.
1. Enter downwind and start slowing the airplane
2. Somewhere abeam the numbers be established at 80 knots or a little
slower.
3. Deploy "full" flaps and slow to 70 knots.
4. Retard throttle (perhaps fully if still high) and turn base, then
final.
5. I "normally" fly final at 70 knots unless I've got company on my wing.
6. Near the numbers (before the flare) start getting the speed down into
the low 60 knot range unless its really windy.
7. Flare about a foot off of the ground and hold nose high as the speed
bleeds off.
8. Keep nose up with stick as needed.
Some thoughts.
1. My 9A stalls at 50 knots with full flaps and gross weight, 45 knots
at full flaps and solo. So, you definately don't want to be blazing over
the numbers at 70 knots, UNLESS, you're comfortable slowing the airplane
while at 1 - 2 feet altitude. This is quite doable and normally if I'm
flying with other RV's (6's, 7's, etc..) behind me, then I fly 80 knots to
the numbers and slow over the runway. HOWEVER, I absolutely don't touch
down at those speeds. I hold it off until it stalls on at about 50.
2. Approach angle. Steep is definately better here. Shallow approaches
under power cause all sorts of problems. The airplane wants to drop out
from under you after it gets slow (not as bad as a 6,7,8 but its still an
issue). A easier landing is to be relatively high so that you are needing
less and less power as you go down final. Also at shorter fields a steeper
approach allows you a shorter landing (in any airplane). Try practicing
your landings and make each approach a litter steeper than the last.
You'll be suprised at how easy it is to get rid of the altitude with full
flaps at 70 knots or below.
3. I guess that I typically cross the aimpoint (whereever that is going
to be today, numbers, etc..) at 60 knots or less, zero (and I do mean
zero) throttle with the nose coming up quite a bit. Ideally I want to here
the mains hit at stall speed with the nose "way" above the horizon.
Honestly its just like landing a 172 except easier. The airplane handles
better, you can see better, etc..
4. I often wonder it the quys that land on their noses are sitting high
enough to see well. You want to be all the way up into the canopy as high
as possible. This makes seeing over the nose easy and leads to much more
precise flare and roundout.
Hope this helps.
--
David Edgemon
RV-9A N42DE
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Richard bad landing |
--> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Could Clay or someone else rpovide me with a copy of the performance profile cited.
I don't have access to the yahoo site.
TIA, John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV9-List message posted by: Clay R
>
> I have the flight data captured from my EFIS/One
> during a landing. (also the climb, and various speed
> runs at different altitudes)
>
> It shows an indicated airspeed of 39KTS and GPS
> groundspeed of 40KTS at the point of touchdown. This
> is at 1720' density altitude.
>
> I normally fly my initial approach at 70KTS, then
> short final try to be around 65KTS. If I need to make
> a short landing, I'll take it down to 60KTS to keep
> the flare short.
>
> The worst thing you can do is touch the ground going
> too fast. The plane will try to fly again. Be ready
> to add power and go around if a gust lifts you off the
> ground. The stick should be back and you should stall
> while inches above the ground.. resulting in a
> squeaker every time. Then gradually keep pulling back
> to hold the nose up as long as possible.
>
> My complete spreadsheet of EFIS captured flight data
> is available on the RV-9A yahoo group in the files
> section. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/files/
> Look for RV9APerformanceData.xls
>
> -Clay
>
> --- Charlie England wrote:
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: Charlie England
> >
> >
> > Neilekins@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > >--> RV9-List message posted by: Neilekins@aol.com
> > >
> > >I can tell you the #s I used. About 75 knots
> > approach speed. Just bring it
> > >down to the run way and hold it off until it
> > settles down on the ground
> > >
> >
> > Apparently we've uncovered Van's 1st deception in
> > performance numbers.
> > It would seem that the -9's stall speed has been
> > grossly understated in
> > the literature. :-) Seriously, what are your -9's
> > showing at stall, both
> > indicated & gps readings compared on a nice calm
> > morning? I fly final in
> > my -4 at 75 *mph* & it still floats a bit.
> >
> > Do they stall up around 55-60 kts indicated? That
> > would indicate a
> > significant low-speed pitot-static error. Not a big
> > deal as long as
> > everything is flown by indicated speeds & the asi is
> > placarded to show
> > it. On the other hand, if they stall in the mid 40's
> > indicated as Van
> > claims, 75 kts could be a reasonable low cruise
> > speed. It would be very
> > hard to land a nosewheel aircraft that much above
> > stall.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Could Clay or someone else rpovide me with a copy of the performance profile cited.
I don't have access to the yahoo site.
TIA, John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV9-List message posted by: Clay R <CLAYR_55@YAHOO.COM>
I have the flight data captured from my EFIS/One
during a landing. (also the climb, and various speed
runs at different altitudes)
It shows an indicated airspeed of 39KTS and GPS
groundspeed of 40KTS at the point of touchdown. This
is at 1720' density altitude.
I normally fly my initial approach at 70KTS, then
short final try to be around 65KTS. If I need to make
a short landing, I'll take it down to 60KTS to keep
the flare short.
The worst thing you can do is touch the ground going
too fast. The plane will try to fly again. Be ready
to add power and go around if a gust lifts you off the
ground. The stick shoul
d be back and you should stall
while inches above the ground.. resulting in a
squeaker every time. Then gradually keep pulling back
to hold the nose up as long as possible.
My complete spreadsheet of EFIS captured flight data
is available on the RV-9A yahoo group in the files
section. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/files/
Look for RV9APerformanceData.xls
-Clay
--- Charlie England <CEENGLAND@BELLSOUTH.NET>wrote:
-- RV9-List message posted by: Charlie England
<CEENGLAND@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Neilekins@aol.com wrote:
-- RV9-List message posted by: Neilekins@aol.com
I can tell you the #s I used. About 75 knots
approach speed. Just bring it
down to the run way and hold it off until it
settles
down on the ground
Apparently we've uncovered Van's 1st deception in
performance numbers.
It would seem that the -9's stall speed has been
grossly understated in
the literature. :-) Seriously, what are your -9's
showing at stall, both
indicated gps readings compared on a nice calm
morning? I fly final in
my -4 at 75 *mph* it still floats a bit.
Do they stall up around 55-60 kts indicated? That
would indicate a
significant low-speed pitot-static error. Not a big
deal as long as
everything is flown by indicated speeds the asi is
placarded to show
it. On the other hand, if they stall in the mid 40's
indicated as Van
claims, 75 kts could be a reasonable low cruise <B
R> speed. It would be very
hard to land a nosewheel aircraft that much above
stall.
Charlie
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