Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - "What's my Contribution used for?" [PLEASE READ!] (Matt Dralle)
2. 04:16 AM - The DC ADIZ NPRM (alan@reichertech.com)
3. 07:37 AM - Re: Wavy Aileron Skin (Michael T. Ice)
4. 10:16 AM - Re: Wavy Aileron Skin (Gerry Filby)
5. 10:59 AM - Re: Wavy Aileron Skin (Richard Tasker)
6. 11:31 AM - Re: Wavy Aileron Skin (Gerry Filby)
7. 04:32 PM - Re: Wavy Aileron Skin (Albert Gardner)
8. 05:24 PM - Re: Wavy Aileron Skin (Chenoweth)
Message 1
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| Subject: | "What's my Contribution used for?" [PLEASE READ!] |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?", and this is
certainly a valid question. Here are just a few examples of what
your direct List support enables. It provides for the very
expensive, business-class, high-speed T1 Internet connection used on
the List, insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when
accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and
software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for
services such as the Archive Search Engine and List Browser. It pays
for 16+ years worth of online archive data available for instant
random access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing,
developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this
List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, and PhotoShare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where
you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is
free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM,
and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make
all those statements about these days? I will venture to say - next to none...
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many desirable
aspects of this most valuable List service. Please support it today
with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can
make in your Sport...
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | The DC ADIZ NPRM |
--> RV9-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com
Hello, All!
Please pardon this intrusion. This note is not specific to your
particular list, but regardless of what you are building, restoring, or
flying, an issue exists that could potentially affect all of you who fly
in the United States. That issue is the Washington DC ADIZ.
This ADIZ was put into effect as a temporary protective measure for
Washington DC airspace after 9/11. There is now an NPRM out to make this
airspace *permanent*.
The original comment period for this NPRM expired yesterday, November 2.
However, the FAA has now extended the comment period for another 90 days,
so if you did not get your comments in, HERE IS YOUR CHANCE!
Information on the ADIZ, and why we are fighting it, can be found here:
http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/
I live underneath the current DC ADIZ, so I get to play with this every
time I fly. The AOPA page above gives a good summary of what has happened
in this area since it's inception.
Help on formulating comments for this NPRM can be found here:
http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/help.html
Comments on this NPRM can be submitted (online) to the DOT here:
http://dms.dot.gov/submit/
Instructions on how to navigate and fill out the DOT page to submit your
comments are available here:
http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/faa_help.html
There are over 18000 comments against this NPRM at this time. If yours is
not one of them, please take the time now to submit your comments; every
one helps. If this ADIZ becomes permanent, then there could be an ADIZ
coming to an airspace near you in the future!
I thank Matt for allowing me to send this to you. Even if you don't live
near the DC area, please do what you can to protect your flying
priviledges... submit your comments!
Regards,
-- Alan Reichert
C-182 Driver/RV-8 Builder
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wavy Aileron Skin |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo@ak.net>
Bill,
I had the same wavy appearance that you describe, in fact it was so bad that
the rivets would fall out when I took out the cleco's. I solved this by
taping the skins together between the rivets with a piece of electrical
tape. I then placed the rivets, applied scotch magic riveting tape, flipped
the aileron over, set the rivets 1/2 way, flipped it back over, set the
rivets completely and the results were a straight edge. I used no proseal
and the process took about 1 hour, I work slow.
I used the same idea with the left flap, just finished it last weekend,
although I did make a back riveting plate 7 feet long so I did not have to
move the flap around a lot, worked great. Nice straight edge.
Mike Ice
Anchorage, Alaska
one more flap to go,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Wavy Aileron Skin
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>
> I'm just beginning the riveting stage of aileron assembly. One of the
> aileron's skins are very wavy at the trailing edge - two or three big
> waves with an amplitude of about 1" - before I cleco the AEX wedge to
> them. The waves developed when I clecoed the leading edge skin to the
> spar and to main skins (prior to this the skins lay absolutely flat) so
> clearly the problem lies in the effect of attaching the leading edge skin.
> Naturally I discovered this during the early stages of getting the AEX
> ready for drilling but between hope that it would work out and Van's
> comment (paraphrased) "That's just the way it is sometimes" I continued.
>
> Now when I cleco the AEX into the waves they pretty much go away, the skin
> seems to be a bit wrinkled, and the TE is anything but straight.
>
> The other aileron does not manifest Any of this - lies flat - behaves -
> looks great.
>
> Does anyone know what causes this? What, if anything, can be done to fix
> this? What the affect on skin appearance will be if nothing is done other
> than to Proseal the AEX to the skins while they are held straight with an
> angle?
>
> Thanks very much,
> Bill in Maine
> RV9 91037
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wavy Aileron Skin |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
I've seen this phenomenon reported several times - it happened
to me on my wing bottom skins - the left one, but not the right
one. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the
temperature of the metal at the time it was punched at Vans.
Perhaps if it was a very cold day when it was run through the
CNC punching machine - and then it expanded when it reached
room temperature in your shop.
I looked up the expansion coefficient of aluminum and its "23.1
m/(mK)" whatever that means. Any material scientists or
mechanical engieers out there that could translate that into
millimeters per degree farenheit ?
g
>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo@ak.net>
>
> Bill,
>
> I had the same wavy appearance that you describe, in fact it
> was so bad that
> the rivets would fall out when I took out the cleco's. I solved this by
> taping the skins together between the rivets with a piece of electrical
> tape. I then placed the rivets, applied scotch magic riveting
> tape, flipped
> the aileron over, set the rivets 1/2 way, flipped it back over, set the
> rivets completely and the results were a straight edge. I used
> no proseal
> and the process took about 1 hour, I work slow.
>
> I used the same idea with the left flap, just finished it last weekend,
> although I did make a back riveting plate 7 feet long so I did
> not have to
> move the flap around a lot, worked great. Nice straight edge.
>
> Mike Ice
> Anchorage, Alaska
> one more flap to go,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV9-List: Wavy Aileron Skin
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> >
> > I'm just beginning the riveting stage of aileron assembly. One of the
> > aileron's skins are very wavy at the trailing edge - two or three big
> > waves with an amplitude of about 1" - before I cleco the AEX wedge to
> > them. The waves developed when I clecoed the leading edge skin to the
> > spar and to main skins (prior to this the skins lay absolutely flat) so
> > clearly the problem lies in the effect of attaching the leading edge skin.
> > Naturally I discovered this during the early stages of getting the AEX
> > ready for drilling but between hope that it would work out and Van's
> > comment (paraphrased) "That's just the way it is sometimes" I continued.
> >
> > Now when I cleco the AEX into the waves they pretty much go away, the skin
> > seems to be a bit wrinkled, and the TE is anything but straight.
> >
> > The other aileron does not manifest Any of this - lies flat - behaves -
> > looks great.
> >
> > Does anyone know what causes this? What, if anything, can be done to fix
> > this? What the affect on skin appearance will be if nothing is done other
> > than to Proseal the AEX to the skins while they are held straight with an
> > angle?
> >
> > Thanks very much,
> > Bill in Maine
> > RV9 91037
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _->
_-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _->
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wavy Aileron Skin |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Your units are not quite right. The thermal coefficient of a material
is expressed in parts per million per degree.
For aluminum it is 23.1 ppm/C or 12.8 ppm/F. Or in other words, a
20F change in temperature will change the length of a three foot piece
of aluminum by approximately 0.009".
The "K" in your units is Kelvin - same unit as "C" but starts at
absolute zero.
Dick Tasker
do not archive
Gerry Filby wrote:
>--> RV9-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
>
>
>I've seen this phenomenon reported several times - it happened
>to me on my wing bottom skins - the left one, but not the right
>one. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the
>temperature of the metal at the time it was punched at Vans.
>Perhaps if it was a very cold day when it was run through the
>CNC punching machine - and then it expanded when it reached
>room temperature in your shop.
>
>I looked up the expansion coefficient of aluminum and its "23.1
>m/(mK)" whatever that means. Any material scientists or
>mechanical engieers out there that could translate that into
>millimeters per degree farenheit ?
>
>g
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wavy Aileron Skin |
--> RV9-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
Hmm, I guess that kills my theory - even a 40 deg F change in
temperature would only induce a length change of less than
100th of an inch between any two wing ribs - I guess the
"working" of the metal by dimpling would have much more
consequence.
Thanks for the conversion Dick.
g
>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>
> Your units are not quite right. The thermal coefficient of a material
> is expressed in parts per million per degree.
>
> For aluminum it is 23.1 ppm/C or 12.8 ppm/F. Or in other words, a
> 20F change in temperature will change the length of a three foot piece
> of aluminum by approximately 0.009".
>
> The "K" in your units is Kelvin - same unit as "C" but starts at
> absolute zero.
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> do not archive
>
> Gerry Filby wrote:
>
> >--> RV9-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
> >
> >
> >I've seen this phenomenon reported several times - it happened
> >to me on my wing bottom skins - the left one, but not the right
> >one. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the
> >temperature of the metal at the time it was punched at Vans.
> >Perhaps if it was a very cold day when it was run through the
> >CNC punching machine - and then it expanded when it reached
> >room temperature in your shop.
> >
> >I looked up the expansion coefficient of aluminum and its "23.1
> >m/(mK)" whatever that means. Any material scientists or
> >mechanical engieers out there that could translate that into
> >millimeters per degree farenheit ?
> >
> >g
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wavy Aileron Skin |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@adelphia.net>
I finished my RV-9A almost 3 years ago and I'm now building a RV-10. The
ailerons and flaps are constructed somewhat differently, one big difference
is that the trailing edge wedge is now pro-sealed in place, held with clecos
until the proseal sets up, and then the trailing edge is riveted. A very
basic cradle for the nose is used to hold the flap or aileron vertical while
the proseal sets up. The spars of my flaps and ailerons were nice and
straight but when I went to use 'glue' the trailing edge wedge in place I
did not like the waves in the trailing edge so I move the cradle well toward
the center of the aileron or flap and used a clamp to pull the spar down to
the table (which would be forward). A very small amount of force removed the
waves and made the skins tighten up-sort of like tuning a violin string.
Wish I had thought of this when I was building the '9'.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A N872RV
Yuma, AZ
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wavy Aileron Skin |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Mike,
Sounds interesting and I'll see if I can get your technique to work. Not
all that interested in proseal if I can avoid it.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo@ak.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Wavy Aileron Skin
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo@ak.net>
>
> Bill,
>
> I had the same wavy appearance that you describe, in fact it was so bad
that
> the rivets would fall out when I took out the cleco's. I solved this by
> taping the skins together between the rivets with a piece of electrical
> tape. I then placed the rivets, applied scotch magic riveting tape,
flipped
> the aileron over, set the rivets 1/2 way, flipped it back over, set the
> rivets completely and the results were a straight edge. I used no proseal
> and the process took about 1 hour, I work slow.
>
> I used the same idea with the left flap, just finished it last weekend,
> although I did make a back riveting plate 7 feet long so I did not have to
> move the flap around a lot, worked great. Nice straight edge.
>
> Mike Ice
> Anchorage, Alaska
> one more flap to go,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV9-List: Wavy Aileron Skin
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> >
> > I'm just beginning the riveting stage of aileron assembly. One of the
> > aileron's skins are very wavy at the trailing edge - two or three big
> > waves with an amplitude of about 1" - before I cleco the AEX wedge to
> > them. The waves developed when I clecoed the leading edge skin to the
> > spar and to main skins (prior to this the skins lay absolutely flat) so
> > clearly the problem lies in the effect of attaching the leading edge
skin.
> > Naturally I discovered this during the early stages of getting the AEX
> > ready for drilling but between hope that it would work out and Van's
> > comment (paraphrased) "That's just the way it is sometimes" I continued.
> >
> > Now when I cleco the AEX into the waves they pretty much go away, the
skin
> > seems to be a bit wrinkled, and the TE is anything but straight.
> >
> > The other aileron does not manifest Any of this - lies flat - behaves -
> > looks great.
> >
> > Does anyone know what causes this? What, if anything, can be done to
fix
> > this? What the affect on skin appearance will be if nothing is done
other
> > than to Proseal the AEX to the skins while they are held straight with
an
> > angle?
> >
> > Thanks very much,
> > Bill in Maine
> > RV9 91037
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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