Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:03 AM - Lanidng an RV 9 (Mike Holland)
2. 08:33 AM - Re: pressure test (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
3. 08:57 AM - Re: Lanidng an RV 9 (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
4. 10:56 AM - Re: pressure test (Richard Jones)
5. 11:24 AM - Re: pressure test (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
6. 02:06 PM - Re: pressure test (fcs@jlc.net)
Message 1
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
My 9A, 1064# empty with a 215# pilot ~36 gallon fuel, c.g. is 79.2". As fuel is
burned the c.g. moves forward on these planes but still remains well within
limits. At 5,000' I see full stall dirty at 44mph, clean about 48mph, power
off.
I'm flying behind an Aerosport O320 E2D with a fixed 80" pitch VANs Sensenich prop.
My idle speed, per lycoming, is about 800rpm, less than that you risk an engine
stall, but 500rpm may be ok. Stall sensitivity would depend on prop and possibly
density altitude.
Approach and flare speeds - As all have noted the 9 wing and fowler flap combination
wants to (will) float. Anything above 60 on flare you will balloon if
you really lift the nose aggressively. My theory is that in the traditional nose
high trigear landing attitude, at full flaps, you really have a lot of down
force on the runway that adds to the float. For what it's worth I'm seeing
about 45 mph before it really feels "stuck" onto the runway surface. Anything
much above that on roll out the mains will lift off with an aggressive elevator
pull.
But some further notes on my technique may help, I"m not a big user of brakes on
landing and prefer to use aerodynamic braking if the runway allows. That means
I use full elevator on rollout. To do that you really have to let the speed
bleed off and gradually add elevator. It took me awhile to gain enough comfort
with the very gentle flight characteristics of my 9a before I felt OK with
these relatively slow approach and flare speeds. But unless its really windy
or gusty, you are heavy or at high density altitude I'd say 55 across the numbers
would be about right. 65 would be plenty without flaps. But every airplane
will be different depending on c.g. and gross weight configuration, so experiment,
work your way down gradually and post your results.
Mike Holland
RV9A
57 hours and still grinning
Dana Point, CA
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: pressure test |
--> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
That makes sense. The DAR had me place a Do Not Use on the transponder until I
can make the appropriate calls and get to a avionics service center for that
check.
I still wonder how they will do the pressure check with a vented pitot tube.....
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Richard Jones" <esnj@granbury.com>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones"
>
> John: Before you opperate your transponder in flight, you are required to
> have your static system, altitude encoder, and transponder checked and
> and signed off by an FAA approved avionics technician per FAR 91.217(b) and
> Part 43-Appendix F. This must be repeated every 2 years and be entered in
> the aircraft log book. If you are outside the Class B 30 mile veil, not
> IFR, don't want Flight Following, and stay out of Class C airspace, you
> don't have to operate your transponder......Dick Jones-90062
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To: "rv9- list"
> Subject: RV9-List: pressure test
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
> >
> > I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment was
> > made by the $900 DAR.
> >
> > It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply is
> > vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new pitot
> > tube to see if the one I have is bad.
> >
> > Will keep you all posted.
> >
> > John
> >
> > I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment was
> > made by the $900 DAR.
> >
> > It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply is
> > vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new pitot
> > tube to see if the one I have is bad.
> >
> > Will keep you all posted.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
That makes sense. The DAR had me place a Do Not Use on the transponder until I
can make the appropriate calls and get to a avionics service center for that check.
I still wonder how they will do the pressure check with a vented pitot tube.....
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Richard Jones" esnj@granbury.com
-- RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones" <ESNJ@GRANBURY.COM>
John: Before you opperate your transponder in flight, you are required to
have your static system, altitude encoder, and transponder checked and
and signed off by an FAA approved avionics technician per FAR 91.217(b) and
Part 43-Appendix F. This must be repeated every 2 years and be entered in
the aircraft log book. If you are outside the Class B 30 mile veil, not
IFR, don't want Flight Following, and stay out of Class C airspace, you
don't have to operate your transponder......Dick Jones-90062
----- Original Message -----
From: <KERRJOHNA@COMCAST.NET>
To: "rv9- list" <RV9-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
&
gt; Subject: RV9-List: pressure test
-- RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment was
made by the $900 DAR.
It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply is
vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new pitot
tube to see if the one I have is bad.
Will keep you all posted.
John
I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment was
made by the $900 DAR.
It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply is
vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new pitot
tube to see if the one I have is bad.
Will keep you all posted.
John
===========================
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lanidng an RV 9 |
--> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Mike, that was very helpful even for understanding the 9. I got a little balloon
yesterday but just held the attitude and let it float down on a cushion of
ground affect air. It will be a lot easier when the pitot problem get sorted
out. The flight yesterday was to check again after determining that there were
no leaks in the lines. I pressured each connection in order from the instruments(2)
out making sure that the indicated air speed held constant until pressure
was released. The vented pitot from Dynon appears to the problem and a new
one is on the way. It is interesting to be on short short final feeling the
plane with your "glutes" because the ASI has gone to "0".
On short final and touch down the RV9 really does handle like my Kitfox. The critical
#'s are 10+/- mph higher but that is hardly noticable. When you touch
down at 50 mph, aerodynamic braking is not much of an issue. Any kind of wind
and you'll need to power up to get off the numbers.
On short final with the idle stop set at 600 rpm I am still seeing 800 on the tach
because of airspeed. To taxi it takes 800 plus to keep it moving. On start,
I have to advance the throttle about a 1/2 inch.
I appreciate your sharing your experience.
John Kerr
1 1/2 hrs.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Holland" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Mike Holland"
>
> My 9A, 1064# empty with a 215# pilot ~36 gallon fuel, c.g. is 79.2". As fuel
is
> burned the c.g. moves forward on these planes but still remains well within
> limits. At 5,000' I see full stall dirty at 44mph, clean about 48mph, power
> off.
>
> I'm flying behind an Aerosport O320 E2D with a fixed 80" pitch VANs Sensenich
> prop.
>
> My idle speed, per lycoming, is about 800rpm, less than that you risk an engine
> stall, but 500rpm may be ok. Stall sensitivity would depend on prop and
> possibly density altitude.
>
> Approach and flare speeds - As all have noted the 9 wing and fowler flap
> combination wants to (will) float. Anything above 60 on flare you will balloon
> if you really lift the nose aggressively. My theory is that in the traditional
> nose high trigear landing attitude, at full flaps, you really have a lot of down
> force on the runway that adds to the float. For what it's worth I'm seeing
> about 45 mph before it really feels "stuck" onto the runway surface. Anything
> much above that on roll out the mains will lift off with an aggressive elevator
> pull.
>
> But some further notes on my technique may help, I"m not a big user of brakes
on
> landing and prefer to use aerodynamic braking if the runway allows. That means
> I use full elevator on rollout. To do that you really have to let the speed
> bleed off and gradually add elevator. It took me awhile to gain enough comfort
> with the very gentle flight characteristics of my 9a before I felt OK with these
> relatively slow approach and flare speeds. But unless its really windy or
> gusty, you are heavy or at high density altitude I'd say 55 across the numbers
> would be about right. 65 would be plenty without flaps. But every airplane
> will be different depending on c.g. and gross weight configuration, so
> experiment, work your way down gradually and post your results.
>
> Mike Holland
> RV9A
> 57 hours and still grinning
>
> Dana Point, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
Mike, that was very helpful even for understanding the 9. I got a little balloon
yesterday but just held the attitude and let it float down on a cushion of ground
affect air. It will be a lot easier when the pitot problem get sorted out.
The flight yesterday was to check again after determining that there were no
leaks in the lines. I pressured each connection in order from the instruments(2)
out making sure that the indicated air speed held constant until pressure
was released. The vented pitot from Dynon appears to the problem and a new one
is on the way. It is interesting to be on short short final feeling the plane
with your "glutes" because the ASI has gone to "0".
On short final and touch down the RV9 really does handle like my Kitfox. The critical
#'s are 10+/- mph higher but that is hardly noticable. When you touch down
at 50 mph, aerodynamic braking is not much of an issue. Any kind of wind and
you'll need to power up to get off the numbers.
On short final with the idle stop set at 600 rpm I am still seeing 800 on the tach
because of airspeed. To taxi it takes 800 plus to keep it moving. On start,
I have to advance the throttle about a 1/2 inch.
I appreciate your sharing your experience.
John Kerr
1 1/2 hrs.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Holland" hollandm@pacbell.net
-- RV9-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" <HOLLANDM@PACBELL.NET>
My 9A, 1064# empty with a 215# pilot ~36 gallon fuel, c.g. is 79.2". As fuel is
burned the c.g. moves forward on these planes but still remains well within
limits. At 5,000' I see full stall dirty at 44mph, clean about 48mph, power
off.
I'm flying behind an Aerosport O320 E2D with a fixed 80" pitch VANs Sensenich
prop.
My idle speed, per lycoming, is about 800rpm, less than that you risk an engine
stall, but 500rpm may be ok. Stall sensitivity would depend on prop and
possibly density altitude.
Approach and flare speeds - As all have noted the 9 wing and fowler flap
combinat
ion wants to (will) float. Anything above 60 on flare you will balloon
if you really lift the nose aggressively. My theory is that in the traditional
nose high trigear landing attitude, at full flaps, you really have a lot of down
force on the runway that adds to the float. For what it's worth I'm seeing
about 45 mph before it really feels "stuck" onto the runway surface. Anything
much above that on roll out the mains will lift off with an aggressive elevator
pull.
But some further notes on my technique may help, I"m not a big user of brakes
on
landing and prefer to use aerodynamic braking if the runway allows. That means
I use full elevator on rollout. To do that you really have to let the speed
bleed off and gradually add elevator. It took me awhile to gain enough comfort
with the very gentle flight characteristics of my 9a before I felt OK with these
relati
vely slow approach and flare speeds. But unless its really windy or
gusty, you are heavy or at high density altitude I'd say 55 across the numbers
would be about right. 65 would be plenty without flaps. But every airplane
will be different depending on c.g. and gross weight configuration, so
experiment, work your way down gradually and post your results.
Mike Holland
RV9A
57 hours and still grinning
Dana Point, CA
oks.com,
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: pressure test |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones" <esnj@granbury.com>
For the required static system check, the tech did nothing to the hi
pressure side of the pitot...Dick Jones
----- Original Message -----
From: <kerrjohna@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: pressure test
> --> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>
> That makes sense. The DAR had me place a Do Not Use on the transponder
> until I can make the appropriate calls and get to a avionics service
> center for that check.
>
> I still wonder how they will do the pressure check with a vented pitot
> tube.....
>
> John Kerr
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Richard Jones" <esnj@granbury.com>
>
>> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones"
>>
>> John: Before you opperate your transponder in flight, you are required to
>> have your static system, altitude encoder, and transponder checked and
>> and signed off by an FAA approved avionics technician per FAR 91.217(b)
>> and
>> Part 43-Appendix F. This must be repeated every 2 years and be entered in
>> the aircraft log book. If you are outside the Class B 30 mile veil, not
>> IFR, don't want Flight Following, and stay out of Class C airspace, you
>> don't have to operate your transponder......Dick Jones-90062
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> To: "rv9- list"
>> Subject: RV9-List: pressure test
>>
>>
>> > --> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>> >
>> > I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
>> > was
>> > made by the $900 DAR.
>> >
>> > It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
>> > is
>> > vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new
>> > pitot
>> > tube to see if the one I have is bad.
>> >
>> > Will keep you all posted.
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> > I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
>> > was
>> > made by the $900 DAR.
>> >
>> > It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
>> > is
>> > vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new
>> > pitot
>> > tube to see if the one I have is bad.
>> >
>> > Will keep you all posted.
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> That makes sense. The DAR had me place a Do Not Use on the transponder
> until I can make the appropriate calls and get to a avionics service
> center for that check.
>
> I still wonder how they will do the pressure check with a vented pitot
> tube.....
>
> John Kerr
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Richard Jones" esnj@granbury.com
>
> -- RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones" <ESNJ@GRANBURY.COM>
>
> John: Before you opperate your transponder in flight, you are required to
> have your static system, altitude encoder, and transponder checked and
> and signed off by an FAA approved avionics technician per FAR 91.217(b)
> and
> Part 43-Appendix F. This must be repeated every 2 years and be entered in
> the aircraft log book. If you are outside the Class B 30 mile veil, not
> IFR, don't want Flight Following, and stay out of Class C airspace, you
> don't have to operate your transponder......Dick Jones-90062
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <KERRJOHNA@COMCAST.NET>
> To: "rv9- list" <RV9-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
> &
> gt; Subject: RV9-List: pressure test
>
>
> -- RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>
> I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
> was
> made by the $900 DAR.
>
> It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
> is
> vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new pitot
> tube to see if the one I have is bad.
>
> Will keep you all posted.
>
> John
>
> I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
> was
> made by the $900 DAR.
>
> It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
> is
> vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new pitot
> tube to see if the one I have is bad.
>
>
> Will keep you all posted.
>
> John
>
>
> ===========================
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: pressure test |
--> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Now that is a Duh moment. Sure, all he cares about is the static side.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Richard Jones" <esnj@granbury.com>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones"
>
> For the required static system check, the tech did nothing to the hi
> pressure side of the pitot...Dick Jones
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: pressure test
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
> >
> > That makes sense. The DAR had me place a Do Not Use on the transponder
> > until I can make the appropriate calls and get to a avionics service
> > center for that check.
> >
> > I still wonder how they will do the pressure check with a vented pitot
> > tube.....
> >
> > John Kerr
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Richard Jones"
> >
> >> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones"
> >>
> >> John: Before you opperate your transponder in flight, you are required to
> >> have your static system, altitude encoder, and transponder checked and
> >> and signed off by an FAA approved avionics technician per FAR 91.217(b)
> >> and
> >> Part 43-Appendix F. This must be repeated every 2 years and be entered in
> >> the aircraft log book. If you are outside the Class B 30 mile veil, not
> >> IFR, don't want Flight Following, and stay out of Class C airspace, you
> >> don't have to operate your transponder......Dick Jones-90062
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From:
> >> To: "rv9- list"
> >> Subject: RV9-List: pressure test
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
> >> >
> >> > I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
> >> > was
> >> > made by the $900 DAR.
> >> >
> >> > It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
> >> > is
> >> > vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new
> >> > pitot
> >> > tube to see if the one I have is bad.
> >> >
> >> > Will keep you all posted.
> >> >
> >> > John
> >> >
> >> > I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
> >> > was
> >> > made by the $900 DAR.
> >> >
> >> > It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
> >> > is
> >> > vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new
> >> > pitot
> >> > tube to see if the one I have is bad.
> >> >
> >> > Will keep you all posted.
> >> >
> >> > John
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > That makes sense. The DAR had me place a Do Not Use on the transponder
> > until I can make the appropriate calls and get to a avionics service
> > center for that check.
> >
> > I still wonder how they will do the pressure check with a vented pitot
> > tube.....
> >
> > John Kerr
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Richard Jones" esnj@granbury.com
> >
> > -- RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones"
> >
> > John: Before you opperate your transponder in flight, you are required to
> > have your static system, altitude encoder, and transponder checked and
> > and signed off by an FAA approved avionics technician per FAR 91.217(b)
> > and
> > Part 43-Appendix F. This must be repeated every 2 years and be entered in
> > the aircraft log book. If you are outside the Class B 30 mile veil, not
> > IFR, don't want Flight Following, and stay out of Class C airspace, you
> > don't have to operate your transponder......Dick Jones-90062
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To: "rv9- list"
> > &
> > gt; Subject: RV9-List: pressure test
> >
> >
> > -- RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
> >
> > I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
> > was
> > made by the $900 DAR.
> >
> > It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
> > is
> > vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new pitot
> > tube to see if the one I have is bad.
> >
> > Will keep you all posted.
> >
> > John
> >
> > I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
> > was
> > made by the $900 DAR.
> >
> > It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
> > is
> > vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new pitot
> > tube to see if the one I have is bad.
> >
> >
> > Will keep you all posted.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > ===========================
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Now that is a Duh moment. Sure, all he cares about is the static side.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Richard Jones" esnj@granbury.com
-- RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones" <ESNJ@GRANBURY.COM>
For the required static system check, the tech did nothing to the hi
pressure side of the pitot...Dick Jones
----- Original Message -----
From: <KERRJOHNA@COMCAST.NET>
To: <RV9-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: pressure test
-- RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
That makes sense. The DAR had me place a Do Not Use on the transponder
until I can make the appropriate calls and get to a avionics service
center for that check.
I still wonder how they will do the pressure check with a vented pitot
tube.....
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Richard Jones" <ESNJ@GRANBURY.COM>
-- RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones"
John: Before you opperate your transponder in flight, you are required to
have your static system, altitude encoder, and transponder checked and
and signed off by an FAA approved avionics technician per FAR 91.217(b)
and
Part 43-Appendix F. This must be repeated every 2 years and be entered in
the aircraft log book. If you are outside the Class B 30 mile veil, not
IFR, don't want Flight Following, and stay out of Class C airspace, you
don't have to operate your transponder......Dick Jones-90062
>
; ----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "rv9- list"
Subject: RV9-List: pressure test
-- RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
was
made by the $900 DAR.
It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
is
vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new
pitot
tube to see if the one I have is bad.
Will keep you all posted.
John
I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure t
est, and no comment
was
made by the $900 DAR.
It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
is
vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new
pitot
tube to see if the one I have is bad.
Will keep you all posted.
John
That makes sense. The DAR had me place a Do Not Use on the transponder
until I can make the appropriate calls and get to a avionics service
center for that check.
I still wonder how they wi
ll do the pressure check with a vented pitot
tube.....
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Richard Jones" esnj@granbury.com
-- RV9-List message posted by: "Richard Jones" <ESNJ@GRANBURY.COM>
John: Before you opperate your transponder in flight, you are required to
have your static system, altitude encoder, and transponder checked and
and signed off by an FAA approved avionics technician per FAR 91.217(b)
and
Part 43-Appendix F. This must be repeated every 2 years and be entered in
the aircraft log book. If you are outside the Class B 30 mile veil, not
IFR, don't want Flight Following, and stay out of Class C airspace, you
don't have to operate your transponder......Dick Jones-90062
&
gt; ----- Original Message -----
From: <KERRJOHNA@COMCAST.NET>
To: "rv9- list" <RV9-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
gt; Subject: RV9-List: pressure test
-- RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
was
made by the $900 DAR.
It would be interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
is
vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new pitot
tube to see if the one I have is bad.
Will keep you all posted.
John
I hadn't heard about a requirement for a pressure test, and no comment
was
made by the $900 DAR.
It would be
interesting, Dynon tells me that the pitot tube they supply
is
vented to allow for moisture disipation. They are sending me a new pitot
tube to see if the one I have is bad.
Will keep you all posted.
John
on Web Site -
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: pressure test |
--> RV9-List message posted by: "fcs@jlc.net" <fcs@jlc.net>
A full "pitot-static" test will include both. And you definitely want to
do both! Stick a little piece of foil tape over your (defective) pitot
tubes 'vent' hole and be done with it until the new one arrives. Avionics
techs are used to having to be creative when doing these tests. They will
come armed with everything from rubber hose to chewing gum. May as well
have them do a VOR calibration too.
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