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1. 04:35 PM - Re: Aft CG (Chenoweth)
2. 06:49 PM - Re: Aft CG (Bill Repucci)
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Bill,
I appreciate the info and your time in providing it. I'm going to order the
ELT and Strobe 6 from Van's soon and will follow your example.
Bill C.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> Regarding the G loads, I did not give it any consideration. The ACK ELT
> (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ack_tech.php) that I am
> using is bolted to the baggage compartment rib, not the bottom skin.
> The idea was to keep it from vibrating on the bottom skin. I don't know
> if this will work or not, time will tell. My tech advisor did want me
> to move it to on top of the baggage compartment floor so it is
> accessible in the case of an accident. I have elected to leave it under
> the floor but will use thumb screws so I can access it in the event of
> an accident.
>
> >From what I've been reading, most of the accidents that trigger the ELT
> are such that the passengers don't survive so I'm not really too worried
> about it's placement. One thing nice about having it under the floor,
> if I do get into an accident, it will most likely not become a
> projectile.
>
> A side note to this, after placing it there and running the phone line
> and antenna wire through the other floor ribs it was pointed out to me
> that certified aircraft try not to run these wires through ribs because
> in the event of an accident the rib can cut the wires. Just another
> thing to consider when you select your placement. I'm not sure if the
> phone wire that goes to the control switch is that critical but I
> suspect it could be cut in such a way so as to deactivate the ELT,
> again, I'm not really sure about this.
>
> If I had to do this over again, I doubt I would include the hinges, just
> use the screws to hold the tops in place. I had extra hinge laying
> around and used it, which is just like me to make it more difficult to
> build.
>
> As I said above, the ELT tray is bolted to the side of the floor rib
> with 8-32 plate nuts. The lids were made from an extra tank skin I had
> laying around (don't ask).
>
> The strobe light power supply was similar in construction, only I bolted
> it to the lid itself. Again, in an effort to keep from mounting
> anything directly to an outside skin. Someone once told me not to mount
> anything to an outside skin because the flexing of the skins could cause
> stress cracks. This may be an old wives tail, I don't really know.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:55 AM
> To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>
> Bill,
> That's very persuasive so I guess I'll head in that direction. I had a
> look at your pictures - nice job. A few questions: Was there any
> particular reason you hinged the doors? Did you feel it necessary to
> consider the G loads the ELT would suffer in a crash and beef up its
> mounting accordingly? It doesn't look like the Ameri-King ELT? Is it
> 406 MHz Artex? If not, did you make any provision for switching when
> the time comes? Could you describe the way the sides of each bay are
> done - material and attachment? And again, thanks for the help. Bill C.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:37 PM
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > As for the placement of items behind the 706 bulkhead, I would still
> > be careful. I put both the strobe power supply and ELT under the
> > baggage compartment floor using access doors. This will allow me to
> > rivet the floor in place.
> >
> > I suspect the reason Van's wants both the baggage floor and seat pans
> > riveted in place is to make them act like a box structure as there is
> > a lot of loads going through those items. However, there are a good
> > number of planes flying with them screwed in place.
> >
> > My -9 will have them riveted in place for two reasons. 1st, I'm lazy
> > and that is a lot of plate nuts. 2nd, I'm trying to make my -9 as
> > light as possible and those plate nuts and screws add a good bit of
> > weight.
> >
> > The reason for putting the ELT and transponder under the floor is also
>
> > twofold. 1st, it gets more weight out of the tail so I can avoid any
> > potential CG problems. (Even though I doubt I will have any.) 2nd, an
>
> > airplane with all the weight in the center handles better.
> >
> > Here is a picture of where I put my ELT:
> > http://www.repucci.com/bill/images/elt%20with%20door.jpg
> >
> > And here is the location of my strobe power supply:
> > http://www.repucci.com/bill/images/strobe%20power%20pack.jpg
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Bill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:21 PM
> > To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> >
> > Bill,
> > Great info and thank you very much.
> > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft
> > use a metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a
>
> > wooden one and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate
> > things like ELT. strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was
> > pretty adamant about not making the baggage area floor removable,
> > though. I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if
>
> > I go ahead and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and,
>
> > absent anyone commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do.
>
> > Bill C.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> > To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM
> > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say.
> > >
> > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft
> > > >CG
> > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
> > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found
> > > everything
> >
> > > is good.
> > >
> > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is
> > > longer and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> > >
> > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A
> > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we
> > > only have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't
> > > seem to
> >
> > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear
> > > legs
> > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the
> CG.
> > >
> > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for
>
> > > the -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized
> > > (extended) for the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden
> > > prop I have sitting on my shelf.
> > >
> > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my
> > > -9 (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a
> > > gentleman out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to
>
> > > worry about
> >
> > > the CG as it isn't a problem.
> > >
> > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play
> > > around
> >
> > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list,
> > > only -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps.
> > > Bill R.
> > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T.
>
> > > Ice
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM
> > > To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > >
> > >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo@ak.net>
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel
>
> > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do
> > > plan on
> > >
> > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> > >
> > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done?
> > >
> > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall
> > > and front floor heavily.
> > >
> > > Mike Ice
> > > Anchorage, Alaska
> > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> > > To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> > > >
> > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9.
> > > > I'm
> >
> > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and
> > > > wonder
> >
> > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that
>
> > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to
> > > > wonder if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other
> > > > than
> >
> > > > behind bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I
> > > > put them). Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully
>
> > > > received. Bill Albion, Maine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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Message 2
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
Careful on the strobe you order, some of the strobe packs are so large
they will not fit under the floor. The one I have is from these guys:
http://www.airplanegear.com/skybright.htm. It is basically an
automotive unit. Small, light, and simple.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Bill,
I appreciate the info and your time in providing it. I'm going to order
the ELT and Strobe 6 from Van's soon and will follow your example. Bill
C. do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> Regarding the G loads, I did not give it any consideration. The ACK
> ELT
> (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ack_tech.php) that I am
> using is bolted to the baggage compartment rib, not the bottom skin.
> The idea was to keep it from vibrating on the bottom skin. I don't
know
> if this will work or not, time will tell. My tech advisor did want me
> to move it to on top of the baggage compartment floor so it is
> accessible in the case of an accident. I have elected to leave it
under
> the floor but will use thumb screws so I can access it in the event of
> an accident.
>
> >From what I've been reading, most of the accidents that trigger the
> >ELT
> are such that the passengers don't survive so I'm not really too
> worried about it's placement. One thing nice about having it under
> the floor, if I do get into an accident, it will most likely not
> become a projectile.
>
> A side note to this, after placing it there and running the phone line
> and antenna wire through the other floor ribs it was pointed out to me
> that certified aircraft try not to run these wires through ribs
> because in the event of an accident the rib can cut the wires. Just
> another thing to consider when you select your placement. I'm not
> sure if the phone wire that goes to the control switch is that
> critical but I suspect it could be cut in such a way so as to
> deactivate the ELT, again, I'm not really sure about this.
>
> If I had to do this over again, I doubt I would include the hinges,
> just use the screws to hold the tops in place. I had extra hinge
> laying around and used it, which is just like me to make it more
> difficult to build.
>
> As I said above, the ELT tray is bolted to the side of the floor rib
> with 8-32 plate nuts. The lids were made from an extra tank skin I
> had laying around (don't ask).
>
> The strobe light power supply was similar in construction, only I
> bolted it to the lid itself. Again, in an effort to keep from
> mounting anything directly to an outside skin. Someone once told me
> not to mount anything to an outside skin because the flexing of the
> skins could cause stress cracks. This may be an old wives tail, I
> don't really know.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:55 AM
> To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>
> Bill,
> That's very persuasive so I guess I'll head in that direction. I had
> a look at your pictures - nice job. A few questions: Was there any
> particular reason you hinged the doors? Did you feel it necessary to
> consider the G loads the ELT would suffer in a crash and beef up its
> mounting accordingly? It doesn't look like the Ameri-King ELT? Is it
> 406 MHz Artex? If not, did you make any provision for switching when
> the time comes? Could you describe the way the sides of each bay are
> done - material and attachment? And again, thanks for the help. Bill
> C.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:37 PM
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > As for the placement of items behind the 706 bulkhead, I would still
> > be careful. I put both the strobe power supply and ELT under the
> > baggage compartment floor using access doors. This will allow me to
> > rivet the floor in place.
> >
> > I suspect the reason Van's wants both the baggage floor and seat
> > pans riveted in place is to make them act like a box structure as
> > there is a lot of loads going through those items. However, there
> > are a good number of planes flying with them screwed in place.
> >
> > My -9 will have them riveted in place for two reasons. 1st, I'm
> > lazy and that is a lot of plate nuts. 2nd, I'm trying to make my -9
> > as light as possible and those plate nuts and screws add a good bit
> > of weight.
> >
> > The reason for putting the ELT and transponder under the floor is
> > also
>
> > twofold. 1st, it gets more weight out of the tail so I can avoid
> > any potential CG problems. (Even though I doubt I will have any.)
> > 2nd, an
>
> > airplane with all the weight in the center handles better.
> >
> > Here is a picture of where I put my ELT:
> > http://www.repucci.com/bill/images/elt%20with%20door.jpg
> >
> > And here is the location of my strobe power supply:
> > http://www.repucci.com/bill/images/strobe%20power%20pack.jpg
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Bill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:21 PM
> > To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> >
> > Bill,
> > Great info and thank you very much.
> > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this.
> > His response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too
> > far aft use a metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about
> > wanting to use a
>
> > wooden one and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to
> > locate things like ELT. strobe power supply, etc, farther forward.
> > Was pretty adamant about not making the baggage area floor
> > removable, though. I conclude from what you said that I should have
> > no problem if
>
> > I go ahead and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead
> > and,
>
> > absent anyone commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll
> > do.
>
> > Bill C.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> > To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM
> > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say.
> > >
> > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft
> > > >CG
> > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings
> > > while moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found
> > > everything
> >
> > > is good.
> > >
> > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is
> > > longer and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> > >
> > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A
> > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we
> > > only have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still
> > > doesn't seem to
> >
> > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear
> > > legs
> > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the
> CG.
> > >
> > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount
> > > for
>
> > > the -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized
> > > (extended) for the O-235. This will help out with the Catto
> > > wooden prop I have sitting on my shelf.
> > >
> > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my
> > > -9 (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a
> > > gentleman out West who has the same set up and he simply said not
> > > to
>
> > > worry about
> >
> > > the CG as it isn't a problem.
> > >
> > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play
> > > around
> >
> > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list,
> > > only -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps.
> > > Bill R.
> > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> > > T.
>
> > > Ice
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM
> > > To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > >
> > >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo@ak.net>
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger
> > > tailwheel
>
> > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do
> > > plan on
> > >
> > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> > >
> > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done?
> > >
> > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall
> > > and front floor heavily.
> > >
> > > Mike Ice
> > > Anchorage, Alaska
> > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> > > To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> > > >
> > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9.
> > > > I'm
> >
> > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and
> > > > wonder
> >
> > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry
> > > > that
>
> > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to
> > > > wonder if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other
> > > > than
> >
> > > > behind bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I
> > > > put them). Any comments and suggestions on this will be
> > > > gratefully
>
> > > > received. Bill Albion, Maine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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