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1. 02:03 PM - Re: Aft CG (Chenoweth)
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--> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
I'm planning to get the strobe from Van's and I think it's the same power
supply I have in the Kitfox. I'm expecting it will fit since my 7A neighbor
has one in about the same place.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
>
> Careful on the strobe you order, some of the strobe packs are so large
> they will not fit under the floor. The one I have is from these guys:
> http://www.airplanegear.com/skybright.htm. It is basically an
> automotive unit. Small, light, and simple.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:07 PM
> To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>
> Bill,
> I appreciate the info and your time in providing it. I'm going to order
> the ELT and Strobe 6 from Van's soon and will follow your example. Bill
> C. do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 10:44 AM
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Regarding the G loads, I did not give it any consideration. The ACK
> > ELT
> > (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ack_tech.php) that I am
> > using is bolted to the baggage compartment rib, not the bottom skin.
> > The idea was to keep it from vibrating on the bottom skin. I don't
> know
> > if this will work or not, time will tell. My tech advisor did want me
> > to move it to on top of the baggage compartment floor so it is
> > accessible in the case of an accident. I have elected to leave it
> under
> > the floor but will use thumb screws so I can access it in the event of
> > an accident.
> >
> > >From what I've been reading, most of the accidents that trigger the
> > >ELT
> > are such that the passengers don't survive so I'm not really too
> > worried about it's placement. One thing nice about having it under
> > the floor, if I do get into an accident, it will most likely not
> > become a projectile.
> >
> > A side note to this, after placing it there and running the phone line
>
> > and antenna wire through the other floor ribs it was pointed out to me
>
> > that certified aircraft try not to run these wires through ribs
> > because in the event of an accident the rib can cut the wires. Just
> > another thing to consider when you select your placement. I'm not
> > sure if the phone wire that goes to the control switch is that
> > critical but I suspect it could be cut in such a way so as to
> > deactivate the ELT, again, I'm not really sure about this.
> >
> > If I had to do this over again, I doubt I would include the hinges,
> > just use the screws to hold the tops in place. I had extra hinge
> > laying around and used it, which is just like me to make it more
> > difficult to build.
> >
> > As I said above, the ELT tray is bolted to the side of the floor rib
> > with 8-32 plate nuts. The lids were made from an extra tank skin I
> > had laying around (don't ask).
> >
> > The strobe light power supply was similar in construction, only I
> > bolted it to the lid itself. Again, in an effort to keep from
> > mounting anything directly to an outside skin. Someone once told me
> > not to mount anything to an outside skin because the flexing of the
> > skins could cause stress cracks. This may be an old wives tail, I
> > don't really know.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:55 AM
> > To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> >
> > Bill,
> > That's very persuasive so I guess I'll head in that direction. I had
> > a look at your pictures - nice job. A few questions: Was there any
> > particular reason you hinged the doors? Did you feel it necessary to
> > consider the G loads the ELT would suffer in a crash and beef up its
> > mounting accordingly? It doesn't look like the Ameri-King ELT? Is it
> > 406 MHz Artex? If not, did you make any provision for switching when
> > the time comes? Could you describe the way the sides of each bay are
> > done - material and attachment? And again, thanks for the help. Bill
> > C.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> > To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:37 PM
> > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > As for the placement of items behind the 706 bulkhead, I would still
>
> > > be careful. I put both the strobe power supply and ELT under the
> > > baggage compartment floor using access doors. This will allow me to
>
> > > rivet the floor in place.
> > >
> > > I suspect the reason Van's wants both the baggage floor and seat
> > > pans riveted in place is to make them act like a box structure as
> > > there is a lot of loads going through those items. However, there
> > > are a good number of planes flying with them screwed in place.
> > >
> > > My -9 will have them riveted in place for two reasons. 1st, I'm
> > > lazy and that is a lot of plate nuts. 2nd, I'm trying to make my -9
>
> > > as light as possible and those plate nuts and screws add a good bit
> > > of weight.
> > >
> > > The reason for putting the ELT and transponder under the floor is
> > > also
> >
> > > twofold. 1st, it gets more weight out of the tail so I can avoid
> > > any potential CG problems. (Even though I doubt I will have any.)
> > > 2nd, an
> >
> > > airplane with all the weight in the center handles better.
> > >
> > > Here is a picture of where I put my ELT:
> > > http://www.repucci.com/bill/images/elt%20with%20door.jpg
> > >
> > > And here is the location of my strobe power supply:
> > > http://www.repucci.com/bill/images/strobe%20power%20pack.jpg
> > >
> > > Good luck,
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:21 PM
> > > To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > >
> > >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > > Great info and thank you very much.
> > > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this.
> > > His response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too
> > > far aft use a metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about
> > > wanting to use a
> >
> > > wooden one and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to
> > > locate things like ELT. strobe power supply, etc, farther forward.
> > > Was pretty adamant about not making the baggage area floor
> > > removable, though. I conclude from what you said that I should have
> > > no problem if
> >
> > > I go ahead and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead
> > > and,
> >
> > > absent anyone commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll
> > > do.
> >
> > > Bill C.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> > > To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM
> > > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
> > > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say.
> > > >
> > > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft
>
> > > > >CG
> > > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings
> > > > while moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found
> > > > everything
> > >
> > > > is good.
> > > >
> > > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is
> > > > longer and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> > > >
> > > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A
> > > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we
> > > > only have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still
> > > > doesn't seem to
> > >
> > > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear
> > > > legs
> > > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the
> > CG.
> > > >
> > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount
> > > > for
> >
> > > > the -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized
> > > > (extended) for the O-235. This will help out with the Catto
> > > > wooden prop I have sitting on my shelf.
> > > >
> > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my
>
> > > > -9 (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a
> > > > gentleman out West who has the same set up and he simply said not
> > > > to
> >
> > > > worry about
> > >
> > > > the CG as it isn't a problem.
> > > >
> > > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play
> > > > around
> > >
> > > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list,
> > > > only -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out.
> > > >
> > > > Hope that helps.
> > > > Bill R.
> > > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> > > > T.
> >
> > > > Ice
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM
> > > > To: rv9-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo@ak.net>
> > > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger
> > > > tailwheel
> >
> > > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do
> > > > plan on
> > > >
> > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> > > >
> > > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done?
> > > >
> > > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall
> > > > and front floor heavily.
> > > >
> > > > Mike Ice
> > > > Anchorage, Alaska
> > > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> > > > To: <rv9-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9.
> > > > > I'm
> > >
> > > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and
> > > > > wonder
> > >
> > > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry
> > > > > that
> >
> > > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to
> > > > > wonder if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other
> > > > > than
> > >
> > > > > behind bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I
> > > > > put them). Any comments and suggestions on this will be
> > > > > gratefully
> >
> > > > > received. Bill Albion, Maine
> > > > >
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