Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:15 AM - [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
1. 02:49 PM - Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (Ralph Finch)
2. 03:07 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (Streiker, Stephen D.)
3. 03:22 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard ()
4. 03:28 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (RScott)
5. 04:48 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (Michael Ice)
6. 04:56 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (Carlos Trigo)
7. 05:14 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (Charlie England)
8. 05:46 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (Bill Repucci)
9. 06:23 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (Ralph Cloud)
10. 11:15 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (bobperk90658@bellsouth.net)
Message 0
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| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means a couple of things. Its my 44th birthday for
one, but I'm trying to forget about that... But, it also means that its that
last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser!
If you been drooling over one of the really sweet free gifts that are available
this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now is the time to jump on one!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution, but just keep putting it off, then
now is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists! Rather than the guy that,
er, ah, forgot (or whatever)... :-)
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this
year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation
a float and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone will feel the same.
The List Contribution page is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard |
On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order the kits for the -9A, and
of course we must choose between the Quick Build and Standard.
We understand the principle of trading dollars for time, and both of us lean
towards saving time. But we wonder what additional items or things might we
want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be difficult to do if
starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to extend the fuel tank 4
or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost impossible to do with the
QB wing.
Or again, I am interested in using a combined pitot tube/angle-of-attack. Is
this much harder to install with a QB wing?
Also, how long have you taken building the Standard wing?
If this has been asked before just point me to the thread....
[Also posted in the VAF ]
Ralph Finch
Davis, California
Message 2
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| Subject: | Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard |
You said: 'I might want to extend the fuel tank 4 or 5 gals on each
side'
Why? Is there some big mission deviation that you are planning?
Stephen (Steve) Streiker
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Finch
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 2:48 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or
Standard
On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order the kits for the -9A,
and
of course we must choose between the Quick Build and Standard.
We understand the principle of trading dollars for time, and both of us
lean
towards saving time. But we wonder what additional items or things might
we
want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be difficult to do if
starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to extend the fuel tank
4
or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost impossible to do with
the
QB wing.
Or again, I am interested in using a combined pitot
tube/angle-of-attack. Is
this much harder to install with a QB wing?
Also, how long have you taken building the Standard wing?
If this has been asked before just point me to the thread....
[Also posted in the VAF ]
Ralph Finch
Davis, California
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard |
Ralph,
I would think long, hard and seriously about
redesigning the fuel tanks whether it be QB or
standard kit. I would talk to Van's about tip tanks
first. Actually with an 0-320 engine the 36 gal
provided will give you well over 600 miles and 4 hours
of range.
If you do deside to redesign the wing you could get a
standard wing kit and still order a QB fuselage.
Dennis Thomas
--- Ralph Finch <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>
> On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order
> the kits for the -9A, and
> of course we must choose between the Quick Build and
> Standard.
>
> We understand the principle of trading dollars for
> time, and both of us lean
> towards saving time. But we wonder what additional
> items or things might we
> want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be
> difficult to do if
> starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to
> extend the fuel tank 4
> or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost
> impossible to do with the
> QB wing.
>
> Or again, I am interested in using a combined pitot
> tube/angle-of-attack. Is
> this much harder to install with a QB wing?
>
> Also, how long have you taken building the Standard
> wing?
>
> If this has been asked before just point me to the
> thread....
>
> [Also posted in the VAF ]
>
> Ralph Finch
> Davis, California
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> Admin.
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV9-List
>
> Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard |
This may or may not help, but the majority opinion, including from Van's
brother, is that if you can only do one QB kit, do the QB wing and the
slow build fuselage. Next step down in price is to do slow build both,
but order the prebuilt fuel tanks.
My slow build wings probably took me about 500 hrs.; probably a little
slower than most.
I wouldn't bother with more fuel. How often would you use the full fuel
capacity, anyway? The time it takes to enlarge the fuel tanks won't be
offset by the time saved with the longer range unless you fly long
distances most of the time. And by doing so, you negate the engineering
thought that went into the design and enter unknown territory.
Richard Scott
RV-9A Fuselage
Ralph Finch wrote:
>
> On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order the kits for the -9A, and
> of course we must choose between the Quick Build and Standard.
>
> We understand the principle of trading dollars for time, and both of us lean
> towards saving time. But we wonder what additional items or things might we
> want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be difficult to do if
> starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to extend the fuel tank 4
> or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost impossible to do with the
> QB wing.
>
> Or again, I am interested in using a combined pitot tube/angle-of-attack. Is
> this much harder to install with a QB wing?
>
> Also, how long have you taken building the Standard wing?
>
> If this has been asked before just point me to the thread....
>
> [Also posted in the VAF ]
>
> Ralph Finch
> Davis, California
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard |
Ralph,
Do you want to fly or build? I did the slow build wings and QB fuselage. If I did
it again I would do QB for both.
Mike Ice
Cowling just about done
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Finch <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard
>
> On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order the kits for
> the -9A, and
> of course we must choose between the Quick Build and Standard.
>
> We understand the principle of trading dollars for time, and both
> of us lean
> towards saving time. But we wonder what additional items or things
> might we
> want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be difficult to do if
> starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to extend the
> fuel tank 4
> or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost impossible to do
> with the
> QB wing.
>
> Or again, I am interested in using a combined pitot tube/angle-of-
> attack. Is
> this much harder to install with a QB wing?
>
> Also, how long have you taken building the Standard wing?
>
> If this has been asked before just point me to the thread....
>
> [Also posted in the VAF ]
>
> Ralph Finch
> Davis, California
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard |
Ralph
>From my experience, I can tell you that it is very easy to install the
"angle-of-attack" in the QB wing, at least the one which is now sold by
Advanced Control Systems.
I believe the one from Dynon will be more or less the same.
I also installed a heated pitot tube, from Gretz Aero, and it was very easy
to do it in the QB wing.
Further, if you do both before riveting the bottom skin, which comes in the
QB wing for you to do it, it will be a piece of cake.
Obviously the same cannot be done with your intention to extend the fuel
tanks. In order to do this, you should buy the standard wings; but you still
can buy the QB fuselage...
If money is not a problem, go for the QB!
It will save you a lot of building time and it permits all the changes and
additions you could possibly want, except extending the fuel tanks :-(
Carlos
RV-9A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Finch
> Sent: sexta-feira, 30 de Novembro de 2007 22:48
> To: rv-list@matronics.com; rv9-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard
>
>
> On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order the kits for the -9A,
and
> of course we must choose between the Quick Build and Standard.
>
> We understand the principle of trading dollars for time, and both of us
lean
> towards saving time. But we wonder what additional items or things might
we
> want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be difficult to do if
> starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to extend the fuel tank 4
> or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost impossible to do with the
> QB wing.
>
> Or again, I am interested in using a combined pitot tube/angle-of-attack.
Is
> this much harder to install with a QB wing?
>
> Also, how long have you taken building the Standard wing?
>
> If this has been asked before just point me to the thread....
>
> [Also posted in the VAF ]
>
> Ralph Finch
> Davis, California
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard |
Easy: tankering. If you can buy wholesale or have an auto-fuel capable
engine, you can do many mid-range trips both ways without refueling.
An extra 10 gal might not help a lot, but another 20 would certainly be
beneficial.
I bought slow build wings for my -7 kit because I wanted to add fuel
capacity, but in retrospect it wouldn't be that hard to add fuel after
the fact. There's a guy in FL doing 'hired gun' work on Mustang replica
kits. He starts with QB kits, cuts access holes on the bottom of the
leading edge 'D' cells, 'caulks' the joints & shop heads of the rivets &
seals up the holes.
On the -9, it might be even easier. Where are the lightening holes in
the spar, outside the existing tanks? You might be able to reach in
through those holes to seal the joints/rivet heads, then close the
lightening holes with sealed plates. Fuel pickup can go through the
spar, or if you skip a bay, you can put the pickup in the rib just like
the stock tank.
Having added 'wet wing' aux tanks to the -7 wing leading edges, I'm
confident that the technique described above on a QB wing would be a lot
easier and faster than what I did on the slow build wings.
If the -9 QB wing is like the -7 QB, with one of the bottom skins left
for the builder, then any of the other mods should be a non-event.
I don't really want to talk about how many hours I've got in the wings...
Charlie
Streiker, Stephen D. wrote:
>
> You said: 'I might want to extend the fuel tank 4 or 5 gals on each
> side'
>
> Why? Is there some big mission deviation that you are planning?
>
>
> Stephen (Steve) Streiker
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Finch
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 2:48 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com; rv9-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or
> Standard
>
>
> On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order the kits for the -9A,
> and
> of course we must choose between the Quick Build and Standard.
>
> We understand the principle of trading dollars for time, and both of us
> lean
> towards saving time. But we wonder what additional items or things might
> we
> want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be difficult to do if
> starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to extend the fuel tank
> 4
> or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost impossible to do with
> the
> QB wing.
>
> Or again, I am interested in using a combined pitot
> tube/angle-of-attack. Is
> this much harder to install with a QB wing?
>
> Also, how long have you taken building the Standard wing?
>
> If this has been asked before just point me to the thread....
>
> [Also posted in the VAF ]
>
> Ralph Finch
> Davis, California
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard |
Ralph,
Having paid myself around $8/hr to assemble my slow build, I would go
quick build, if I were doing it again.
As adding fuel, check out SafeAir1's option:
http://www.safeair1.com/HWA/HWA_Buying_Tanks.htm
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Finch
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:48 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or
Standard
On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order the kits for the -9A,
and of course we must choose between the Quick Build and Standard.
We understand the principle of trading dollars for time, and both of us
lean towards saving time. But we wonder what additional items or things
might we want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be difficult to
do if starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to extend the
fuel tank 4 or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost impossible
to do with the QB wing.
Or again, I am interested in using a combined pitot
tube/angle-of-attack. Is this much harder to install with a QB wing?
Also, how long have you taken building the Standard wing?
If this has been asked before just point me to the thread....
[Also posted in the VAF ]
Ralph Finch
Davis, California
Message 9
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| Subject: | Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard |
If it's more fuel that is your decision hinge point, look at the Hotel
Whisky (marketed by SafeAir1 extended tanks. The put a tubular tank in
the lightening holes of the leading edge ribs from the existing tank to
the tip with a filler in the tip, gets about 1 to 2 hours extended
range. It can easily be retrofitted or you can put the fuel bungs on
your existing tank either in construction or after it is built.
The website is: http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm
Ralph -- wings
Livermore, CA
Do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard |
Charlie the retro fit on my RV9 wing tanks was fairly straight forward. Sealed
up the last 3 outboard bays of the wing added all the necessary hard ware, Level
indicators, low point sump, and fuel pick up, and a new filler ring at the
wing tip and it came up with 14 gal extra space in each wing. Not that I want
to travel around the world but I do want to get back from those long cross
countries that terminate at someones back yard field with no way to fuel up unless
I stop on the way home, I would have to leave earlier. And miss the fun.
Bob Perkinson
RV-9
do not archive
-------------- Original message from Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>:
--------------
>
> Easy: tankering. If you can buy wholesale or have an auto-fuel capable
> engine, you can do many mid-range trips both ways without refueling.
>
> An extra 10 gal might not help a lot, but another 20 would certainly be
> beneficial.
>
> I bought slow build wings for my -7 kit because I wanted to add fuel
> capacity, but in retrospect it wouldn't be that hard to add fuel after
> the fact. There's a guy in FL doing 'hired gun' work on Mustang replica
> kits. He starts with QB kits, cuts access holes on the bottom of the
> leading edge 'D' cells, 'caulks' the joints & shop heads of the rivets &
> seals up the holes.
>
> On the -9, it might be even easier. Where are the lightening holes in
> the spar, outside the existing tanks? You might be able to reach in
> through those holes to seal the joints/rivet heads, then close the
> lightening holes with sealed plates. Fuel pickup can go through the
> spar, or if you skip a bay, you can put the pickup in the rib just like
> the stock tank.
>
> Having added 'wet wing' aux tanks to the -7 wing leading edges, I'm
> confident that the technique described above on a QB wing would be a lot
> easier and faster than what I did on the slow build wings.
>
> If the -9 QB wing is like the -7 QB, with one of the bottom skins left
> for the builder, then any of the other mods should be a non-event.
>
> I don't really want to talk about how many hours I've got in the wings...
>
> Charlie
>
> Streiker, Stephen D. wrote:
> >
> > You said: 'I might want to extend the fuel tank 4 or 5 gals on each
> > side'
> >
> > Why? Is there some big mission deviation that you are planning?
> >
> >
> > Stephen (Steve) Streiker
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Finch
> > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 2:48 PM
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com; rv9-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or
> > Standard
> >
> >
> > On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order the kits for the -9A,
> > and
> > of course we must choose between the Quick Build and Standard.
> >
> > We understand the principle of trading dollars for time, and both of us
> > lean
> > towards saving time. But we wonder what additional items or things might
> > we
> > want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be difficult to do if
> > starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to extend the fuel tank
> > 4
> > or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost impossible to do with
> > the
> > QB wing.
> >
> > Or again, I am interested in using a combined pitot
> > tube/angle-of-attack. Is
> > this much harder to install with a QB wing?
> >
> > Also, how long have you taken building the Standard wing?
> >
> > If this has been asked before just point me to the thread....
> >
> > [Also posted in the VAF ]
> >
> > Ralph Finch
> > Davis, California
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
<html>
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<head></head>
<body>
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Charlie the retro fit on my RV9
wing tanks was fairly straight forward.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Sealed up the last 3 outboard bays of the wing added all the necessary
hard ware, Level indicators, low point sump, and fuel pick up, and a new filler
ring at the wing tip and it came up with 14 gal<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>extra space in each wing.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Not that I want to travel around the world but I do want to get back
from those long cross countries that terminate at someones back yard field with
no way to fuel up unless I stop on the way home, I would have to leave earlier.
And miss the fun.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Bob Perkinson</P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">RV-9</P>do not archive<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message from Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>:
-------------- <BR><BR><BR>> --> RV9-List message posted
by: Charlie England <CEENGLAND@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>> <BR>> Easy: tankering.
If you can buy wholesale or have an auto-fuel capable <BR>> engine, you
can do many mid-range trips both ways without refueling. <BR>> <BR>> An
extra 10 gal might not help a lot, but another 20 would certainly be <BR>>
beneficial. <BR>> <BR>> I bought slow build wings for my -7 kit because
I wanted to add fuel <BR>> capacity, but in retrospect it wouldn't be that
hard to add fuel after <BR>> the fact. There's a guy in FL doing 'hired gun'
work on Mustang replica <BR>> kits. He starts with QB kits, cuts access
holes on the bottom of the <BR>> leading edge 'D' cells, 'caulks' the joints
& shop heads of the rivets & <BR>> seals
up th
e holes. <BR>> <BR>> On the -9, it might be even easier. Where are the lightening
holes in <BR>> the spar, outside the existing tanks? You might be
able to reach in <BR>> through those holes to seal the joints/rivet heads,
then close the <BR>> lightening holes with sealed plates. Fuel pickup can go
through the <BR>> spar, or if you skip a bay, you can put the pickup in the
rib just like <BR>> the stock tank. <BR>> <BR>> Having added 'wet
wing' aux tanks to the -7 wing leading edges, I'm <BR>> confident that the
technique described above on a QB wing would be a lot <BR>> easier and faster
than what I did on the slow build wings. <BR>> <BR>> If the -9 QB wing
is like the -7 QB, with one of the bottom skins left <BR>> for the builder,
then any of the other mods should be a non-event. <BR>> <BR>> I don't
really want to talk about how many hours I've got in the wings... <BR>> <BR>>
Charlie <BR>> <BR>> Streiker, Stephen D.
wrote
: <BR>> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Streiker, Stephen D." <STEVE@STREIKER.COM><BR>> > <BR>> > You said: 'I might want to extend the fuel tank 4 or 5 gals on each <BR>> > side' <BR>> > <BR>> > Why? Is there some big mission deviation that you are planning? <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Stephen (Steve) Streiker <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com <BR>> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Finch <BR>> > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 2:48 PM <BR>> > To: rv-list@matronics.com; rv9-list@matronics.com <BR>> > Subject: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or <BR>> > Standard <BR>> > <BR>> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Ralph Finch" <RGF@DCN.DAVIS.CA.US><BR>> > <BR>> > On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order the kits for t
he -9A
, <BR>> > and <BR>> > of course we must choose between the Quick Build
and Standard. <BR>> > <BR>> > We understand the principle of trading
dollars for time, and both of us <BR>> > lean <BR>> > towards
saving time. But we wonder what additional items or things might <BR>> >
we <BR>> > want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be difficult
to do if <BR>> > starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to
extend the fuel tank <BR>> > 4 <BR>> > or 5 gals on each side, and
that would be almost impossible to do with <BR>> > the <BR>> > QB
wing. <BR>> > <BR>> > Or again, I am interested in using a combined
pitot <BR>> > tube/angle-of-attack. Is <BR>> > this much harder
to install with a QB wing? <BR>> > <BR>> > Also, how long have you
taken building the Standard wing? <BR>> > <BR>> > If this has been
asked before just point me to the thread.... <BR>&
gt; &g
List
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