---------------------------------------------------------- RV9-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/01/07: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:35 AM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (Carlos Trigo) 2. 08:52 AM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard () 3. 11:47 AM - WTB: RV-9A Wings / Fuselage (jedwards) 4. 12:02 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (RScott) 5. 04:03 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (bobperk90658@bellsouth.net) 6. 06:38 PM - Shipping & Duty (D & D) 7. 09:23 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (Charlie England) 8. 10:02 PM - Re: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard (Ralph Cloud) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:31 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard Guys You are referring to the Hotel Whisky extra tanks, but I want to call your attention to the fact that they don't have them for the -9. I don't know why, but every time I ask them (and I've done it in the last 3 years or so), they keep answering that they still don't have the tanks for the -9. Maybe you could ask them now... Let me add that I also think that it should be easy to adapt the tanks which they sell for the -7 to be used on the -9, but before ordering them I would like to have the kit in my hands and I am in the other side of the big pond Carlos Trigo RV-9A Portugal > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Cloud > Sent: sbado, 1 de Dezembro de 2007 2:23 > To: rv9-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard > > > If it's more fuel that is your decision hinge point, look at the Hotel > Whisky (marketed by SafeAir1 extended tanks. The put a tubular tank in > the lightening holes of the leading edge ribs from the existing tank to > the tip with a filler in the tip, gets about 1 to 2 hours extended > range. It can easily be retrofitted or you can put the fuel bungs on > your existing tank either in construction or after it is built. > > The website is: http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm > > Ralph -- wings > Livermore, CA > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:54 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard Bob, Did you talk to Van's or have available to you engineering support for this change? I would think 84 pounds that far outboard on the wing would seriously degrade load factor safety margins. Just curious. Dennis Thomas --- bobperk90658@bellsouth.net wrote: > Charlie the retro fit on my RV9 wing tanks was > fairly straight forward. Sealed up the last 3 > outboard bays of the wing added all the necessary > hard ware, Level indicators, low point sump, and > fuel pick up, and a new filler ring at the wing tip > and it came up with 14 gal extra space in each > wing. Not that I want to travel around the world > but I do want to get back from those long cross > countries that terminate at someones back yard > field with no way to fuel up unless I stop on the > way home, I would have to leave earlier. And miss > the fun. > > Bob Perkinson > RV-9 > do not archive > > -------------- Original message from Charlie England > : -------------- > > > > > > Easy: tankering. If you can buy wholesale or have > an auto-fuel capable > > engine, you can do many mid-range trips both ways > without refueling. > > > > An extra 10 gal might not help a lot, but another > 20 would certainly be > > beneficial. > > > > I bought slow build wings for my -7 kit because I > wanted to add fuel > > capacity, but in retrospect it wouldn't be that > hard to add fuel after > > the fact. There's a guy in FL doing 'hired gun' > work on Mustang replica > > kits. He starts with QB kits, cuts access holes on > the bottom of the > > leading edge 'D' cells, 'caulks' the joints & shop > heads of the rivets & > > seals up the holes. > > > > On the -9, it might be even easier. Where are the > lightening holes in > > the spar, outside the existing tanks? You might be > able to reach in > > through those holes to seal the joints/rivet > heads, then close the > > lightening holes with sealed plates. Fuel pickup > can go through the > > spar, or if you skip a bay, you can put the pickup > in the rib just like > > the stock tank. > > > > Having added 'wet wing' aux tanks to the -7 wing > leading edges, I'm > > confident that the technique described above on a > QB wing would be a lot > > easier and faster than what I did on the slow > build wings. > > > > If the -9 QB wing is like the -7 QB, with one of > the bottom skins left > > for the builder, then any of the other mods should > be a non-event. > > > > I don't really want to talk about how many hours > I've got in the wings... > > > > Charlie > > > > Streiker, Stephen D. wrote: > Stephen D." > > > > > > You said: 'I might want to extend the fuel tank > 4 or 5 gals on each > > > side' > > > > > > Why? Is there some big mission deviation that > you are planning? > > > > > > > > > Stephen (Steve) Streiker > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Ralph Finch > > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 2:48 PM > > > To: rv-list@matronics.com; > rv9-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing > and Fuse Kit: QB or > > > Standard > > > > > > > > > On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each > order the kits for the -9A, > > > and > > > of course we must choose between the Quick Build > and Standard. > > > > > > We understand the principle of trading dollars > for time, and both of us > > > lean > > > towards saving time. But we wonder what > additional items or things might > > > we > > > want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would > be difficult to do if > > > starting from the QB? For instance, I might want > to extend the fuel tank > > > 4 > > > or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost > impossible to do with > > > the > > > QB wing. > > > > > > Or again, I am interested in using a combined > pitot > > > tube/angle-of-attack. Is > > > this much harder to install with a QB wing? > > > > > > Also, how long have you taken building the > Standard wing? > > > > > > If this has been asked before just point me to > the thread.... > > > > > > [Also posted in the VAF ] > > > > > > Ralph Finch > > > Davis, California > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:51 AM PST US From: "jedwards" Subject: RV9-List: WTB: RV-9A Wings / Fuselage Does anyone have a wing and/or fuselage kit (QB or at any stage) they are willing to sell. I'm in Florida, so the closer the better, but I'm willing to pick up from just about anywhere. Thanks, John Edwards RV-9A - Slider - Empennage ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:01 PM PST US From: RScott Subject: Re: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard Ralph, Here are some complications you will encounter if you try this: The fuel tank skins are thicker than the leading edge skins. The LE skin feels pretty flimsy by comparison. If you simply seal in the leading edge for one or 2 rib bays, that little tank won't be as strong as the regular tank. I don't know if this is a problem. If you want to use fuel tank skins just for the width of your additional tank area, you will need to install an extra rib at the outboard end of your tank with a splice strip; at least that's how the factory joined the tank skin with the LE skin. And how are you going to cut a prebent skin to get a nice straight edge so the joint will look good? Maybe Van's, if you ask nicely, will provide you with a LE skin the thickness of the tank skin, but I doubt it. There is no provision in the spar for an additional rib at the joint between your tank and the LE and I don't know if you could modify it. You can't just use tank skins full width because the tank skins are an inch or two shorter than the LE skins. Then you also have to route fuel and vent lines. My suggestion? Forget it. The closer you stick to the original design, the faster the plane will go together, the sooner you will be flying. Use a fuel injected engine, lean out, throttle back to get range. After you are flying, then consider maybe a baggage compartment aux tank like a friend of mine is building. Removable, & he only intends to use it when flying solo. Estimates 5 gallons. Much simpler concept, no structural questions. Has to keep it in mid for W&B, however, so he will mount it up next to the seat back. Richard Scott RV-9A Fuselage Ralph Finch wrote: > > On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each order the kits for the -9A, and > of course we must choose between the Quick Build and Standard. > > We understand the principle of trading dollars for time, and both of us lean > towards saving time. But we wonder what additional items or things might we > want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would be difficult to do if > starting from the QB? For instance, I might want to extend the fuel tank 4 > or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost impossible to do with the > QB wing. > > Or again, I am interested in using a combined pitot tube/angle-of-attack. Is > this much harder to install with a QB wing? > > Also, how long have you taken building the Standard wing? > > If this has been asked before just point me to the thread.... > > [Also posted in the VAF ] > > Ralph Finch > Davis, California > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:27 PM PST US From: bobperk90658@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard Dennis, I have not personally run the numbers, but I am not the only one that has put a little extra weight out on the wings. Check out this RV-9A http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm When I wrote to Van's they only told me that there had not been any engineering studies preformed on this modification. I have the option to go without. Bob Perkinson Do Not Archive -------------- Original message from : -------------- > > Bob, > Did you talk to Van's or have available to you > engineering support for this change? I would think 84 > pounds that far outboard on the wing would seriously > degrade load factor safety margins. > Just curious. > > Dennis Thomas

Dennis,

I have not personally run the numbers, but I am not the only one that has put a little extra weight out on the wings.  Check out this RV-9A

http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm

 

When I wrote to Van's they only told me that there had not been any engineering studies preformed on this modification.

 

I have the option to go without.

 

Bob Perkinson

 

Do Not Archive

 

 

-------------- Original message from <dthomas773@sbcglobal.net>: --------------


> --> RV9-List message posted by:
>
> Bob,
> Did you talk to Van's or have available to you
> engineering support for this change? I would think 84
> pounds that far outboard on the wing would seriously
> degrade load factor safety margins.
> Just curious.
>
> Dennis Thomas
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:24 PM PST US From: "D & D" Subject: RV9-List: Shipping & Duty Hi All I'm just about ready to order the RV-9 standard kit and was wondering if anyone could tell me what I can expect for duty costs and what is the best carrier to have the kit shipped from the USA. I live just west of Edmonton. Dave ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:39 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard I'm not an engineer, but people who are tell me that it actually *improves* load safety margins. (It also degrades spin characteristics, but that's not what you asked about :-) ) Charlie dthomas773@sbcglobal.net wrote: > > Bob, > Did you talk to Van's or have available to you > engineering support for this change? I would think 84 > pounds that far outboard on the wing would seriously > degrade load factor safety margins. > Just curious. > > Dennis Thomas > --- bobperk90658@bellsouth.net wrote: > >> Charlie the retro fit on my RV9 wing tanks was >> fairly straight forward. Sealed up the last 3 >> outboard bays of the wing added all the necessary >> hard ware, Level indicators, low point sump, and >> fuel pick up, and a new filler ring at the wing tip >> and it came up with 14 gal extra space in each >> wing. Not that I want to travel around the world >> but I do want to get back from those long cross >> countries that terminate at someones back yard >> field with no way to fuel up unless I stop on the >> way home, I would have to leave earlier. And miss >> the fun. >> >> Bob Perkinson >> RV-9 >> do not archive >> >> -------------- Original message from Charlie England >> : -------------- >> >> >>> >>> Easy: tankering. If you can buy wholesale or have >> an auto-fuel capable >>> engine, you can do many mid-range trips both ways >> without refueling. >>> An extra 10 gal might not help a lot, but another >> 20 would certainly be >>> beneficial. >>> >>> I bought slow build wings for my -7 kit because I >> wanted to add fuel >>> capacity, but in retrospect it wouldn't be that >> hard to add fuel after >>> the fact. There's a guy in FL doing 'hired gun' >> work on Mustang replica >>> kits. He starts with QB kits, cuts access holes on >> the bottom of the >>> leading edge 'D' cells, 'caulks' the joints & shop >> heads of the rivets & >>> seals up the holes. >>> >>> On the -9, it might be even easier. Where are the >> lightening holes in >>> the spar, outside the existing tanks? You might be >> able to reach in >>> through those holes to seal the joints/rivet >> heads, then close the >>> lightening holes with sealed plates. Fuel pickup >> can go through the >>> spar, or if you skip a bay, you can put the pickup >> in the rib just like >>> the stock tank. >>> >>> Having added 'wet wing' aux tanks to the -7 wing >> leading edges, I'm >>> confident that the technique described above on a >> QB wing would be a lot >>> easier and faster than what I did on the slow >> build wings. >>> If the -9 QB wing is like the -7 QB, with one of >> the bottom skins left >>> for the builder, then any of the other mods should >> be a non-event. >>> I don't really want to talk about how many hours >> I've got in the wings... >>> Charlie >>> >>> Streiker, Stephen D. wrote: >> Stephen D." >>>> You said: 'I might want to extend the fuel tank >> 4 or 5 gals on each >>>> side' >>>> >>>> Why? Is there some big mission deviation that >> you are planning? >>>> >>>> Stephen (Steve) Streiker >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server@matronics.com] On >> Behalf Of Ralph Finch >>>> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 2:48 PM >>>> To: rv-list@matronics.com; >> rv9-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing >> and Fuse Kit: QB or >>>> Standard >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday December 3 a buddy and I will each >> order the kits for the -9A, >>>> and >>>> of course we must choose between the Quick Build >> and Standard. >>>> We understand the principle of trading dollars >> for time, and both of us >>>> lean >>>> towards saving time. But we wonder what >> additional items or things might >>>> we >>>> want to do to the fuselage or wing, that would >> be difficult to do if >>>> starting from the QB? For instance, I might want >> to extend the fuel tank >>>> 4 >>>> or 5 gals on each side, and that would be almost >> impossible to do with >>>> the >>>> QB wing. >>>> >>>> Or again, I am interested in using a combined >> pitot >>>> tube/angle-of-attack. Is >>>> this much harder to install with a QB wing? >>>> >>>> Also, how long have you taken building the >> Standard wing? >>>> If this has been asked before just point me to >> the thread.... >>>> [Also posted in the VAF ] >>>> >>>> Ralph Finch >>>> Davis, California >>>> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:03 PM PST US From: "Ralph Cloud" Subject: RE: RV9-List: Looking for advice on Wing and Fuse Kit: QB or Standard Vans' addressed the issues surrounding adding aux fuel tanks in an RVAter article sometime in the last 18 months. Ralph Wings Livermore Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv9-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv9-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.