---------------------------------------------------------- RVSouthEast-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/09/05: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:54 AM - Re: Fw: AOPA ePilot -- North Carolina Airspace Bulletin (N184FN@aol.com) 2. 05:05 AM - Attn: Larry Was Re: Fw: AOPA ePilot -- North Carolina Airspace Bulletin (Ed Anderson) 3. 05:34 AM - Innodyn Turbines (ATRdriver@aol.com) 4. 06:52 AM - Re: Innodyn Turbines (Ed Anderson) 5. 02:02 PM - Re: Innodyn Turbines (Bill Repucci) 6. 02:37 PM - Ken Harrill, James Clark, Bill Crothers (Lenleg@aol.com) 7. 03:59 PM - Re: Innodyn Turbines (Ed Anderson) 8. 05:46 PM - Re: Innodyn Turbines (Bill Repucci) 9. 07:15 PM - March 12 (Steve Glasgow) 10. 07:23 PM - Re: March 12 (Ed Anderson) 11. 07:45 PM - Re: March 12 (Steve Glasgow) 12. 08:40 PM - Re: March 12 (Larry Bowen) 13. 09:17 PM - Re: March 12 () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:57 AM PST US From: N184FN@aol.com Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: AOPA ePilot -- North Carolina Airspace Bulletin --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: N184FN@aol.com North Carolina 5/1106 PART 1 OF 3 FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA, FEBRUARY 10, 2005 LOCAL. PURSUANT TO TITLE 14, SECTION 91.141, OF THE CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS (CFR), AIRCRAFT FLIGHT OPER- ATIONS ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN 30 NMR UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING FL180 OF 355000N/0784310W OR THE RDU131003.9 FROM 0502101500 (1000 LOCAL 02/10/05) UNTIL 0502101835 (1335 LOCAL 02/10/05). WITHIN 10 NMR UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING FL180 OF 355221N/0784700W OR THE RDU VORTAC FROM 0502101500 (1000 LOCAL 02/10/05) UNTIL 0502101605 (1105 LOCAL 02/10/05). WITHIN 10 NMR UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING FL180 OF 354623N/0783821W OR THE RDU134009.2 FROM 0502101525 (1025 LOCAL 02/10/05) UNTIL 0502101810 (1310 LOCAL 02/10/05). WITHIN 10 NMR UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING FL180 OF 355221N/0784700W OR THE RDU VORTAC FROM 0502101730 (1230 LOCAL 02/10/05) UNTIL 0502101835 (1335 LOCAL 02/10/05). EXCEPT AS SPECIFIED BELOW AND/OR UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY ATC: A. ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS WITHIN A 10 NMR AREA LISTED ABOVE ARE PROHIBITED EXCEPT FOR: 1. LAW ENFORCEMENT, MILITARY AIRCRAFT DIRECTLY SUPPORTING THE UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE (USSS) AND THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, EMERGENCY MEDICAL FLIGHTS, AND END PART 1 OF 3 WIE UNTIL UFN PART 2 OF 3 FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA, REGULARLY SCHEDULED COMMERCIAL PASSENGER AND ALL-CARGO CARRIERS OPERATING UNDER ONE OF THE FOLLOWING TSA-APPROVED STANDARD SECURITY PROGRAMS/PROCEDURES: AIRCRAFT OPERATOR STANDARD SECURITY PROGRAM (AOSSP), DOMESTIC SECURITY INTEGRATION PROGRAM (DSIP), TWELVE FIVE STANDARD SECURITY PROGRAM (TFSSP), OR ALL-CARGO INTERNATIONAL SECURITY PROCEDURE (ACISP) AND ARE ARRIVING INTO AND/OR DEPARTING FROM 14 CFR PART 139 AIRPORTS. 2. FOR OPERATIONS WITHIN THE TFR, ALL MEDICAL FLIGHT OPERATION COMPANIES SHALL COORDINATE OPERATIONS IN ADVANCE WITH THE USSS AT 919-380-3125 TO AVOID POTENTIAL DELAYS. B. WITHIN THE AIRSPACE BETWEEN 10 NMR AND 30 NMR LISTED ABOVE: 1. ALL AIRCRAFT ENTERING OR EXITING THE 30 NMR TFR SHALL BE ON AN ACTIVE IFR OR VFR FLIGHT PLAN WITH A DISCRETE CODE ASSIGNED BY AN ATC FACILITY. AIRCRAFT SHALL BE SQUAWKING THE DISCRETE CODE PRIOR TO DEPARTURE AND AT ALL TIMES WHILE IN THE TFR. 2. ALL AIRCRAFT ENTERING OR EXITING THE 30 NMR TFR MUST REMAIN IN TWO-WAY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS WITH ATC. 3. ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING WITHIN THE 10 NMR TO 30 NMR TFR AND OPERATING AT ALTITUDES OF UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING FL180 ARE END PART 2 OF 3 WIE UNTIL UFN PART 3 OF 3 FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA, LIMITED TO AIRCRAFT ARRIVING OR DEPARTING LOCAL AIRFIELDS AND ATC MAY AUTHORIZE TRANSIT OPERATIONS. AIRCRAFT MAY NOT LOITER. 4. FLIGHT TRAINING, PRACTICE INSTRUMENT APPROACHES, AEROBATIC FLIGHT, GLIDER OPERATIONS, PARACHUTE OPERATIONS, ULTRALIGHT, HANG GLIDING, BALLOON, AGRICULTURE/CROP DUSTING, ANIMAL POPULATION CONTROL FLIGHT OPERATIONS, AND BANNER TOWING OPERATIONS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED. 5. ALL USSS CLEARED AIRCRAFT OPERATORS BASED IN THE AREA SHOULD NOTIFY THE USSS PRIOR TO THEIR DEPARTURE. 6. FOR OPERATIONS WITHIN THE TFR, ALL MEDICAL FLIGHT OPERATION COMPANIES SHALL COORDINATE OPERATIONS IN ADVANCE WITH THE USSS AT 919-380-3125 TO AVOID POTENTIAL DELAYS. C. IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATORS CHECK NOTAMS FREQUENTLY FOR POSSIBLE REQUIRED CHANGES TO THIS TFR PRIOR TO OPERATIONS WITHIN THIS REGION. END PART 3 OF 3 WIE UNTIL UFN [See graphic.] AOPA has compiled plain-language guidance and a list of airports affected by notam 5/1106: Size and location: Centered on 355000N 0784310W: 30-nm-radius TFR up to 17,999-ft-MSL Effective time: 1000 local until 1335 local Feb 10 Requirements for flight 10-30 nm area: Limited to arriving or departing local airfields Must be on active VFR or IFR flight plan Squawk discrete code obtained from ATC Two-way communication with ATC No loitering Operations not authorized: FLIGHT TRAINING, PRACTICE INSTRUMENT APPROACHES, AEROBATIC FLIGHT, GLIDER OPERATIONS, PARACHUTE OPERATIONS, ULTRALIGHT, HANG GLIDING, BANNER TOWING OPERATIONS, AGRICULTURE/CROP DUSTING, BALLOON OPERATIONS, ANIMAL POPULATION CONTROL FLIGHT OPERATIONS, AND COMMERCIAL CARGO/CARRIER OPERATIONS THAT FAIL TO MEET OR EXCEED THE TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION S DOMESTIC SECURITY INTEGRATED PROGRAM STANDARDS, AIRCRAFT OPERATOR STANDARD SECURITY PROGRAM (AOSSP), DOMESTIC SECURITY INTEGRATION PROGRAM (DSIP), TWELVE FIVE STANDARD SECURITY PROGRAM (TFSSP), OR ALL-CARGO INTERNATIONAL SECURITY PROCEDURE (ACISP) Airport IDNameCityStateNautical Miles From RDURaleigh-Durham InternationalRALEIGH/DURHAMNC4.3 5W5Triple WRALEIGHNC12.8 IGXHorace WilliamsCHAPEL HILLNC18.0 LHZFranklin CountyLOUISBURGNC22.1 JNXJohnston CountySMITHFIELDNC23.8 TTASanford-Lee County RegionalSANFORDNC23.9 HRJHarnett CountyERWINNC27.3 TDFPerson CountyROXBORONC30.0 4W7Hurdle FieldMEBANENC30.8 Size and location: Centered on 355221N 0784700W: 10-nm-radius no-fly zone up to 17,999-ft-MSL Effective time: 1000 local until 1105 local Feb 10 1230 local until 1335 local Feb 10 Requirements for flight 10-30 nm area: Limited to arriving or departing local airfields Must be on active VFR or IFR flight plan Squawk discrete code obtained from ATC Two-way communication with ATC No loitering Operations not authorized: FLIGHT TRAINING, PRACTICE INSTRUMENT APPROACHES, AEROBATIC FLIGHT, GLIDER OPERATIONS, PARACHUTE OPERATIONS, ULTRALIGHT, HANG GLIDING, BANNER TOWING OPERATIONS, AGRICULTURE/CROP DUSTING, BALLOON OPERATIONS, ANIMAL POPULATION CONTROL FLIGHT OPERATIONS, AND COMMERCIAL CARGO/CARRIER OPERATIONS THAT FAIL TO MEET OR EXCEED THE TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION S DOMESTIC SECURITY INTEGRATED PROGRAM STANDARDS, AIRCRAFT OPERATOR STANDARD SECURITY PROGRAM (AOSSP), DOMESTIC SECURITY INTEGRATION PROGRAM (DSIP), TWELVE FIVE STANDARD SECURITY PROGRAM (TFSSP), OR ALL-CARGO INTERNATIONAL SECURITY PROCEDURE (ACISP) Airport IDNameCityStateNautical Miles From RDURaleigh-Durham InternationalRALEIGH/DURHAMNC0.5 Size and location: Centered on 354623N 0783821W: 10-nm-radius no-fly zone up to 17,999-ft-MSL Effective time: 1025 local until 1310 local Feb 10 Requirements for flight 10-30 nm area: Limited to arriving or departing local airfields Must be on active VFR or IFR flight plan Squawk discrete code obtained from ATC Two-way communication with ATC No loitering Operations not authorized: FLIGHT TRAINING, PRACTICE INSTRUMENT APPROACHES, AEROBATIC FLIGHT, GLIDER OPERATIONS, PARACHUTE OPERATIONS, ULTRALIGHT, HANG GLIDING, BANNER TOWING OPERATIONS, AGRICULTURE/CROP DUSTING, BALLOON OPERATIONS, ANIMAL POPULATION CONTROL FLIGHT OPERATIONS, AND COMMERCIAL CARGO/CARRIER OPERATIONS THAT FAIL TO MEET OR EXCEED THE TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION S DOMESTIC SECURITY INTEGRATED PROGRAM STANDARDS, AIRCRAFT OPERATOR STANDARD SECURITY PROGRAM (AOSSP), DOMESTIC SECURITY INTEGRATION PROGRAM (DSIP), TWELVE FIVE STANDARD SECURITY PROGRAM (TFSSP), OR ALL-CARGO INTERNATIONAL SECURITY PROCEDURE (ACISP) Airport IDNameCityStateNautical Miles From 5W5Triple WRALEIGHNC9.5 RDURaleigh-Durham InternationalRALEIGH/DURHAMNC9.8 Julius Hagin jhagin@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:33 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Attn: Larry Was Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: AOPA ePilot -- North Carolina Airspace Bulletin --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Hi Larry, Just wanted to tell you that, I (for one at least) really appreciate you posting those TFRs that occur in our flying area. Certainly our responsibility to stay up on such, but appreciate it just the same. Ed A ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: AOPA ePilot -- North Carolina Airspace Bulletin > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:27 AM PST US From: ATRdriver@aol.com Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: ATRdriver@aol.com Hi All, My dad just sent me this link as I am planning to start an RV-8 project soon. These folks seem to be targeting the RV market and, once again, the RV community may lead the way in innovation! Check out the RV-4 movies on the "Innodyn in Action" tab. You'll be amazed! With an estimated 5000 hr TBO, reduction gear box oil change every 500 hrs and igniter plug changes every 2 yrs or 1000 hrs, this may be the wave of the future! It looks like these people are also planning on firewall forward kits for all RVs. Check it out at: _http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/innodyn_turbines.html_ (http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/innodyn_turbines.html) Enjoy! Terry ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:45 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Hi Terry, Having been around the experimental and RV segment of aviation for a spell, I have seen on the average at least 1-3 "engines of the future" unveiled each year, some you see once, some have been around for almost 2 decades, but none have yet turned into an available product. So you start to take all claims with a grain of salt until you actually see one met the typical evaluation criterion of a Lycoming type installation. You know, cost, weight, fuel burn, power, reliability, sustainability, etcilities backed up by independently certified data. The one thing that I don't yet see (although they stated they working on it) are the fuel burn for the turbines. A number of attempts have been made in the past. Turbines have been installed in RVs before and will certainly work, there is no question about that - however, the horrid fuel burn at altitudes that most RVs are flow at considerably reduce the range of the aircraft and viability of the combination. So, my personal opinion (and that's all it is) is that if they can produce fuel flow rates "comparable" (not quite certain what that means - within 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%?) with piston engines for HP output, then they may have something - until I see those figures, I remain skeptical. I am certainly all for alternative engines, I fly an RV-6A powered by a Mazda Rotary engine, so I am eager to see a successful turbine package - just have not, as of yet. This could be the one. But, if indeed they are can get comparable fuel burn and HP in a turbine "comparable" to a reciprocating (or rotary {:>)), then they have a technological edge over everyone else producing small turbines and I want to buy stock in the company. The market will be tremendous - just think of all the vehicle (and other) manufactories who will want the reliability of a turbine with the power and fuel burn of a reciprocating engine! Good luck on your project (what ever engine) Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com > Hi All, > > My dad just sent me this link as I am planning to start an RV-8 project > soon. These folks seem to be targeting the RV market and, once again, the RV > community may lead the way in innovation! Check out the RV-4 movies on the > "Innodyn in Action" tab. You'll be amazed! With an estimated 5000 hr TBO, > reduction gear box oil change every 500 hrs and igniter plug changes every 2 yrs > or 1000 hrs, this may be the wave of the future! It looks like these people > are also planning on firewall forward kits for all RVs. Check it out at: > > _http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/innodyn_turbines.html_ > (http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/innodyn_turbines.html) > > Enjoy! > > Terry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:01 PM PST US From: "Bill Repucci" Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" Ed, That was a very well thought out answer and I would like to add one item. Chrysler built a turbine powered car back in the early sixties (web site: http://www.turbinecar.com/top.htm) that was supposed to be "The car of the future". Funny how all of my cars have internal combustion reciprocating engines forty years later. Interestingly enough, I couldn't find a reference to the cars fuel consumption, which I assume was horrible and would limit the cars range since it had a 21 gallon tank. This was another engine of the future that just didn't make it to market although I have to give Chrysler a lot of credit for building the cars and letting ordinary citizens test them. That is something that would never happen in today's litigious society. Bill Repucci RV-9 Fuselage N941WR reserved -----Original Message----- From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" --> Hi Terry, Having been around the experimental and RV segment of aviation for a spell, I have seen on the average at least 1-3 "engines of the future" unveiled each year, some you see once, some have been around for almost 2 decades, but none have yet turned into an available product. So you start to take all claims with a grain of salt until you actually see one met the typical evaluation criterion of a Lycoming type installation. You know, cost, weight, fuel burn, power, reliability, sustainability, etcilities backed up by independently certified data. The one thing that I don't yet see (although they stated they working on it) are the fuel burn for the turbines. A number of attempts have been made in the past. Turbines have been installed in RVs before and will certainly work, there is no question about that - however, the horrid fuel burn at altitudes that most RVs are flow at considerably reduce the range of the aircraft and viability of the combination. So, my personal opinion (and that's all it is) is that if they can produce fuel flow rates "comparable" (not quite certain what that means - within 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%?) with piston engines for HP output, then they may have something - until I see those figures, I remain skeptical. I am certainly all for alternative engines, I fly an RV-6A powered by a Mazda Rotary engine, so I am eager to see a successful turbine package - just have not, as of yet. This could be the one. But, if indeed they are can get comparable fuel burn and HP in a turbine "comparable" to a reciprocating (or rotary {:>)), then they have a technological edge over everyone else producing small turbines and I want to buy stock in the company. The market will be tremendous - just think of all the vehicle (and other) manufactories who will want the reliability of a turbine with the power and fuel burn of a reciprocating engine! Good luck on your project (what ever engine) Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com > Hi All, > > My dad just sent me this link as I am planning to start an RV-8 > project soon. These folks seem to be targeting the RV market and, > once again, the RV > community may lead the way in innovation! Check out the RV-4 movies > on the > "Innodyn in Action" tab. You'll be amazed! With an estimated 5000 > hr TBO, > reduction gear box oil change every 500 hrs and igniter plug changes every 2 yrs > or 1000 hrs, this may be the wave of the future! It looks like these people > are also planning on firewall forward kits for all RVs. Check it out > at: > > _http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/innodyn_turbines.html_ > (http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/innodyn_turbines.html) > > Enjoy! > > Terry ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:53 PM PST US From: Lenleg@aol.com Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Ken Harrill, James Clark, Bill Crothers --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com Guys: Any practice for Palmetto Flight this weekend? Len ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:34 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Hi Bill, Yes, I go that back that far (and further {:>)) and recall when the Chrysler Turbine made all the car news - but. alas as you say, it was not to be. I suspect had the $$ of the auto industry been behind an effort to make the turbine the engine of the future, they would be much better at fuel consumption than we find today - at least for the small turbines. I hope someone succeeds - as it would sure make a nice, light and powerful engine - but, its tough to beat the reciprocating engine for converting fuel energy into work energy. Ed A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Repucci" Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" > > Ed, > > That was a very well thought out answer and I would like to add one > item. > > Chrysler built a turbine powered car back in the early sixties (web > site: http://www.turbinecar.com/top.htm) that was supposed to be "The > car of the future". Funny how all of my cars have internal combustion > reciprocating engines forty years later. > > Interestingly enough, I couldn't find a reference to the cars fuel > consumption, which I assume was horrible and would limit the cars range > since it had a 21 gallon tank. > > This was another engine of the future that just didn't make it to market > although I have to give Chrysler a lot of credit for building the cars > and letting ordinary citizens test them. That is something that would > never happen in today's litigious society. > > Bill Repucci > RV-9 Fuselage > N941WR reserved > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed > Anderson > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines > > > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > --> > > Hi Terry, > > Having been around the experimental and RV segment of aviation for a > spell, I have seen on the average at least 1-3 "engines of the future" > unveiled each year, some you see once, some have been around for almost > 2 decades, but none have yet turned into an available product. So you > start to take all claims with a grain of salt until you actually see one > met the typical evaluation criterion of a Lycoming type installation. > You know, cost, weight, fuel burn, power, reliability, sustainability, > etcilities backed up by independently certified data. > > The one thing that I don't yet see (although they stated they working > on > it) are the fuel burn for the turbines. A number of attempts have been > made in the past. Turbines have been installed in RVs before and will > certainly work, there is no question about that - however, the horrid > fuel burn at altitudes that most RVs are flow at considerably reduce the > range of the aircraft and viability of the combination. So, my personal > opinion (and that's all it is) is that if they can produce fuel flow > rates "comparable" (not quite certain what that means - within 2%, 5%, > 10%, 20%?) with piston engines for HP output, then they may have > something - until I see those figures, I remain skeptical. > > I am certainly all for alternative engines, I fly an RV-6A powered by a > Mazda Rotary engine, so I am eager to see a successful turbine package - > just have not, as of yet. This could be the one. But, if indeed they > are can get comparable fuel burn and HP in a turbine "comparable" to a > reciprocating (or rotary {:>)), then they have a technological edge over > everyone else producing small turbines and I want to buy stock in the > company. The market will be tremendous - just think of all the vehicle > (and > other) manufactories who will want the reliability of a turbine with the > power and fuel burn of a reciprocating engine! > > Good luck on your project (what ever engine) > > Ed Anderson > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > Matthews, NC > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > Hi All, > > > > My dad just sent me this link as I am planning to start an RV-8 > > project soon. These folks seem to be targeting the RV market and, > > once again, the > RV > > community may lead the way in innovation! Check out the RV-4 movies > > on > the > > "Innodyn in Action" tab. You'll be amazed! With an estimated 5000 > > hr > TBO, > > reduction gear box oil change every 500 hrs and igniter plug changes > every 2 yrs > > or 1000 hrs, this may be the wave of the future! It looks like these > people > > are also planning on firewall forward kits for all RVs. Check it out > > > at: > > > > _http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/innodyn_turbines.html_ > > (http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/innodyn_turbines.html) > > > > Enjoy! > > > > Terry > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:59 PM PST US From: "Bill Repucci" Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" Agreed! Your rotary is about the closest thing we to a practical small turbine engine. I would still like to see an RV with a fully cowled radial engine though. A -6,7, or 9 might look something like a Spartan Executive. Man, how I love those old round engines! Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" --> Hi Bill, Yes, I go that back that far (and further {:>)) and recall when the Chrysler Turbine made all the car news - but. alas as you say, it was not to be. I suspect had the $$ of the auto industry been behind an effort to make the turbine the engine of the future, they would be much better at fuel consumption than we find today - at least for the small turbines. I hope someone succeeds - as it would sure make a nice, light and powerful engine - but, its tough to beat the reciprocating engine for converting fuel energy into work energy. Ed A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Repucci" Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" > --> > > Ed, > > That was a very well thought out answer and I would like to add one > item. > > Chrysler built a turbine powered car back in the early sixties (web > site: http://www.turbinecar.com/top.htm) that was supposed to be "The > car of the future". Funny how all of my cars have internal combustion > reciprocating engines forty years later. > > Interestingly enough, I couldn't find a reference to the cars fuel > consumption, which I assume was horrible and would limit the cars > range since it had a 21 gallon tank. > > This was another engine of the future that just didn't make it to > market although I have to give Chrysler a lot of credit for building > the cars and letting ordinary citizens test them. That is something > that would never happen in today's litigious society. > > Bill Repucci > RV-9 Fuselage > N941WR reserved > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed > Anderson > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Innodyn Turbines > > > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > --> > > Hi Terry, > > Having been around the experimental and RV segment of aviation for a > spell, I have seen on the average at least 1-3 "engines of the future" > unveiled each year, some you see once, some have been around for > almost 2 decades, but none have yet turned into an available product. > So you start to take all claims with a grain of salt until you > actually see one met the typical evaluation criterion of a Lycoming > type installation. You know, cost, weight, fuel burn, power, > reliability, sustainability, etcilities backed up by independently > certified data. > > The one thing that I don't yet see (although they stated they working > on > it) are the fuel burn for the turbines. A number of attempts have > been made in the past. Turbines have been installed in RVs before and > will certainly work, there is no question about that - however, the > horrid fuel burn at altitudes that most RVs are flow at considerably > reduce the range of the aircraft and viability of the combination. > So, my personal opinion (and that's all it is) is that if they can > produce fuel flow rates "comparable" (not quite certain what that > means - within 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%?) with piston engines for HP output, > then they may have something - until I see those figures, I remain > skeptical. > > I am certainly all for alternative engines, I fly an RV-6A powered by > a Mazda Rotary engine, so I am eager to see a successful turbine > package - just have not, as of yet. This could be the one. But, if > indeed they are can get comparable fuel burn and HP in a turbine > "comparable" to a reciprocating (or rotary {:>)), then they have a > technological edge over everyone else producing small turbines and I > want to buy stock in the company. The market will be tremendous - just > think of all the vehicle (and > other) manufactories who will want the reliability of a turbine with > the power and fuel burn of a reciprocating engine! > > Good luck on your project (what ever engine) > > Ed Anderson > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > Matthews, NC > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > Hi All, > > > > My dad just sent me this link as I am planning to start an RV-8 > > project soon. These folks seem to be targeting the RV market and, > > once again, the > RV > > community may lead the way in innovation! Check out the RV-4 movies > > on > the > > "Innodyn in Action" tab. You'll be amazed! With an estimated 5000 > > hr > TBO, > > reduction gear box oil change every 500 hrs and igniter plug > > changes > every 2 yrs > > or 1000 hrs, this may be the wave of the future! It looks like > > these > people > > are also planning on firewall forward kits for all RVs. Check it > > out > > > at: > > > > _http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/innodyn_turbines.html_ > > (http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/innodyn_turbines.html) > > > > Enjoy! > > > > Terry > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:10 PM PST US From: "Steve Glasgow" Subject: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" Hi Guys, I remember some info about a fly-in near Ocala on March 12. Can someone send me the details. Looks like my schedule has changed and I will be available now. Steve Glasgow ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:58 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Steve, here is the orginal invite I got from Esten Spears. Via later e mail, he said that they would love to have us (no camping on the airpark but they would provide transformation to local motels for an overnight) . But, in any case, you need to reference this and send him your e mail address and he'll send you and invite. Ed Original Message ----- From: Esten Spears Subject: Fw: Invitation to "We Love RV's" Luncheon at Leeward Air Ranch Ed Anderson, You are invited to our "We Love Rv's" Luncheon March 12th at Leeward Air Ranch. This years gathering is hosted by The Leeward Air Ranch RVators. The activities will be at the Leeward Air Ranch Community Center which is right on the taxi way near the NorthWest end. Plan to arrive between 8:30 and 10:30AM. We are planning to have coffee & doughnuts for the early arrivals. We plan to serve lunch (Barbecue) around noon. We understand that weather can change anyones plans to attend at the last minute but would appreciate it if your schedule changes and you know ahead of time you can't attend, Please notify us at ewspears@comcast.net Also ask any of your RV enthusiest friends to notify us for their invitation. We Look Forward to Visiting with You on the 12th! The RV Enthusiasts at Leeward Air Ranch Flying Diractions Leeward Air Ranch is a Private Sport Aviation Community. Location is 11NM on the 118 deg Radial from the Ocala VOR (OCF 113.7) and is on the Sectional symbol FD04. The coordinates are 29 05.6' N and 82 02.0' W. The runway is N-S, 6247' Long X 250' Wide Smooth Turf. The Taxiway is adjacent running the full length on the West side of the runway. Please use taxiway which will keep the runway open for arrivals. We use a Left Pattern for Runway 36 and a Right Pattern for Runway 18. The CTAF is 122.9 and we will have someone to advise on active runway and any traffic they are aware of. During this event we will displace the North End Threshold about 1200' so please favor the south end of the runway on your landing. From Orlando: (50 to 75 minutes) (If you would like to drive through Ocala, take the Fla. Turnpike to 1-75, follow the From 1-75 directions and allow an additiona/15 minutes.) North on Fla. Turnpike to Wildwood US301 North exit. Then proceed north about 15 miles to Belleview. (If you miss the exit, the Turnpike extension you are on will merge into 1-75, so take 1-75 North and follow From 1.75 directions.) Turn left at traffic signal on US441/301/27 North and go about 2 blocks to next traffic signal and turn right on SR25 South and go about 4 blocks. When you cross the railroad tracks, make an Immediate left at the traffic signal on SR35 North (aka Baseline Rd). Proceed 2'1, miles to SE 85th Lane. Turn right and go 1 mile to the entrance. Call "111" from gate for the office or call any Leeward. If you see Associated Grocers Warehouse on the right, you went too far. From 1-75: (50 mins from Gainesville and 90 mins from Tampa) 1-75 to Exit 350 (SR200 North Ocala). Turn northeast onto SR200 and proceed 2 miles to SR464 East (aka SW 17th St) at the Buick dealership. Turn right and go 7 miles east to SR35 South (aka Baseline Rd) at traffic signal. Turn right. Proceed 2'1, miles south to SE 85th Lane just past Associated Grocers warehouse. Turn left and go 1 mile to the entrance. From Ocala Municipal Airport: (15 - 20 minutes) Exiting airport, turn right onto SW 60th Ave. Turn left at the next Intersection On to SW 20th St. Continue for 3 miles to SR200. Turn left on SR 200 and proceed northeast about a ,/, mile to SR 464 East (aka S..W. 17th St.) at Buick dealership. Turn right and go 7 miles east to SR35 South (aka Baseline Rd) at traffic signal. Turn right. Proceed 2,/, miles south to SE 85th Lane Just past Associated Grocers Warehouse. Turn left and go 1 mile to the entrance. Take the second left after going through the gate and you will be right in front of the Community Center. Park in the area immediately in front. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Glasgow" Subject: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" > > Hi Guys, > > I remember some info about a fly-in near Ocala on March 12. Can someone > send me the details. Looks like my schedule has changed and I will be > available now. > > Steve Glasgow > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:59 PM PST US From: "Steve Glasgow" Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" Thanks Ed, I will try to make it. Steve Glasgow ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > > Steve, here is the orginal invite I got from Esten Spears. Via later e > mail, he said that they would love to have us (no camping on the airpark > but > they would provide transformation to local motels for an overnight) . > But, > in any case, you need to reference this and send him your e mail address > and > he'll send you and invite. > > Ed > > Original Message ----- > From: Esten Spears > To: eanderson@carolina.rr.com > Subject: Fw: Invitation to "We Love RV's" Luncheon at Leeward Air Ranch > > > Ed Anderson, > You are invited to our "We Love Rv's" Luncheon March 12th at Leeward > Air > Ranch. This years gathering is hosted by The Leeward Air Ranch RVators. > The > activities will be at the Leeward Air Ranch Community Center which is > right > on the taxi way near the NorthWest end. Plan to arrive between 8:30 and > 10:30AM. We are planning to have coffee & doughnuts for the early > arrivals. > We plan to serve lunch (Barbecue) around noon. > We understand that weather can change anyones plans to attend at the > last minute but would appreciate it if your schedule changes and you know > ahead of time you can't attend, Please notify us at ewspears@comcast.net > Also ask any of your RV enthusiest friends to notify us for their > invitation. > > > We Look Forward to Visiting with You on the 12th! > The RV Enthusiasts at Leeward Air Ranch > > > Flying Diractions > > Leeward Air Ranch is a Private Sport Aviation Community. Location is 11NM > on > the 118 deg Radial from the Ocala VOR (OCF 113.7) and is on the Sectional > symbol FD04. The coordinates are 29 05.6' N and 82 02.0' W. The runway is > N-S, 6247' Long X 250' Wide Smooth Turf. The Taxiway is adjacent running > the > full length on the West side of the runway. Please use taxiway which will > keep the runway open for arrivals. We use a Left Pattern for Runway 36 and > a > Right Pattern for Runway 18. The CTAF is 122.9 and we will have someone to > advise on active runway and any traffic they are aware of. During this > event > we will displace the North End Threshold about 1200' so please favor the > south end of the runway on your landing. > > > From Orlando: (50 to 75 minutes) > > (If you would like to drive through Ocala, take the Fla. Turnpike to 1-75, > follow the From 1-75 directions and allow an additiona/15 minutes.) > > North on Fla. Turnpike to Wildwood US301 North exit. Then proceed north > about 15 miles to Belleview. (If you miss the exit, the Turnpike extension > you are on will merge into 1-75, so take 1-75 North and follow From 1.75 > directions.) Turn left at traffic signal on US441/301/27 North and go > about > 2 blocks to next traffic signal and > > turn right on SR25 South and go about 4 blocks. When you cross the > railroad > tracks, make an Immediate left at the traffic signal on SR35 North (aka > Baseline Rd). Proceed 2'1, miles to SE 85th Lane. Turn right and go 1 mile > to the entrance. Call "111" from gate for the office or call any Leeward. > If > you see Associated Grocers Warehouse on the right, you went too far. > > From 1-75: (50 mins from Gainesville and 90 mins from Tampa) > > 1-75 to Exit 350 (SR200 North Ocala). Turn northeast onto SR200 and > proceed > 2 miles to SR464 East (aka SW 17th St) at the Buick dealership. Turn right > and go 7 miles east to SR35 South (aka Baseline Rd) at traffic signal. > Turn > right. Proceed 2'1, miles south to SE 85th Lane just past Associated > Grocers > warehouse. Turn left and go 1 mile to the entrance. > > > From Ocala Municipal Airport: (15 - 20 minutes) > > Exiting airport, turn right onto SW 60th Ave. Turn left at the next > Intersection On to SW 20th St. Continue for 3 miles to SR200. Turn left on > SR 200 and proceed northeast about a ,/, mile to SR 464 East (aka S..W. > 17th > St.) at Buick dealership. Turn right and go 7 miles east to SR35 South > (aka > Baseline Rd) at traffic signal. Turn right. Proceed 2,/, miles south to SE > 85th Lane Just past Associated Grocers Warehouse. Turn left and go 1 mile > to > the entrance. Take the second left after going through the gate and you > will be right in front of the Community Center. Park in the area > immediately > in front. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Glasgow" > To: "SERV" > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 > > >> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" > >> >> Hi Guys, >> >> I remember some info about a fly-in near Ocala on March 12. Can someone >> send me the details. Looks like my schedule has changed and I will be >> available now. >> >> Steve Glasgow >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:09 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Another excuse to fly is free hotdogs and discounted gas at Mt Airey (MWK) Saturday at lunch time. Just FYI... - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Glasgow [mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 10:46 PM > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 > > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" > --> > > Thanks Ed, I will try to make it. > > Steve Glasgow > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Anderson" > To: > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 > > > > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > > > > > Steve, here is the orginal invite I got from Esten Spears. > Via later e > > mail, he said that they would love to have us (no camping > on the airpark > > but > > they would provide transformation to local motels for an > overnight) . > > But, > > in any case, you need to reference this and send him your e > mail address > > and > > he'll send you and invite. > > > > Ed > > > > Original Message ----- > > From: Esten Spears > > To: eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > Subject: Fw: Invitation to "We Love RV's" Luncheon at > Leeward Air Ranch > > > > > > Ed Anderson, > > You are invited to our "We Love Rv's" Luncheon March > 12th at Leeward > > Air > > Ranch. This years gathering is hosted by The Leeward Air > Ranch RVators. > > The > > activities will be at the Leeward Air Ranch Community > Center which is > > right > > on the taxi way near the NorthWest end. Plan to arrive > between 8:30 and > > 10:30AM. We are planning to have coffee & doughnuts for the early > > arrivals. > > We plan to serve lunch (Barbecue) around noon. > > We understand that weather can change anyones plans to > attend at the > > last minute but would appreciate it if your schedule > changes and you know > > ahead of time you can't attend, Please notify us at > ewspears@comcast.net > > Also ask any of your RV enthusiest friends to notify us for their > > invitation. > > > > > > We Look Forward to Visiting with You on the 12th! > > The RV Enthusiasts at Leeward Air Ranch > > > > > > Flying Diractions > > > > Leeward Air Ranch is a Private Sport Aviation Community. > Location is 11NM > > on > > the 118 deg Radial from the Ocala VOR (OCF 113.7) and is on > the Sectional > > symbol FD04. The coordinates are 29 05.6' N and 82 02.0' W. > The runway is > > N-S, 6247' Long X 250' Wide Smooth Turf. The Taxiway is > adjacent running > > the > > full length on the West side of the runway. Please use > taxiway which will > > keep the runway open for arrivals. We use a Left Pattern > for Runway 36 and > > a > > Right Pattern for Runway 18. The CTAF is 122.9 and we will > have someone to > > advise on active runway and any traffic they are aware of. > During this > > event > > we will displace the North End Threshold about 1200' so > please favor the > > south end of the runway on your landing. > > > > > > From Orlando: (50 to 75 minutes) > > > > (If you would like to drive through Ocala, take the Fla. > Turnpike to 1-75, > > follow the From 1-75 directions and allow an additiona/15 minutes.) > > > > North on Fla. Turnpike to Wildwood US301 North exit. Then > proceed north > > about 15 miles to Belleview. (If you miss the exit, the > Turnpike extension > > you are on will merge into 1-75, so take 1-75 North and > follow From 1.75 > > directions.) Turn left at traffic signal on US441/301/27 > North and go > > about > > 2 blocks to next traffic signal and > > > > turn right on SR25 South and go about 4 blocks. When you cross the > > railroad > > tracks, make an Immediate left at the traffic signal on > SR35 North (aka > > Baseline Rd). Proceed 2'1, miles to SE 85th Lane. Turn > right and go 1 mile > > to the entrance. Call "111" from gate for the office or > call any Leeward. > > If > > you see Associated Grocers Warehouse on the right, you went too far. > > > > From 1-75: (50 mins from Gainesville and 90 mins from Tampa) > > > > 1-75 to Exit 350 (SR200 North Ocala). Turn northeast onto SR200 and > > proceed > > 2 miles to SR464 East (aka SW 17th St) at the Buick > dealership. Turn right > > and go 7 miles east to SR35 South (aka Baseline Rd) at > traffic signal. > > Turn > > right. Proceed 2'1, miles south to SE 85th Lane just past > Associated > > Grocers > > warehouse. Turn left and go 1 mile to the entrance. > > > > > > From Ocala Municipal Airport: (15 - 20 minutes) > > > > Exiting airport, turn right onto SW 60th Ave. Turn left at the next > > Intersection On to SW 20th St. Continue for 3 miles to > SR200. Turn left on > > SR 200 and proceed northeast about a ,/, mile to SR 464 > East (aka S..W. > > 17th > > St.) at Buick dealership. Turn right and go 7 miles east to > SR35 South > > (aka > > Baseline Rd) at traffic signal. Turn right. Proceed 2,/, > miles south to SE > > 85th Lane Just past Associated Grocers Warehouse. Turn left > and go 1 mile > > to > > the entrance. Take the second left after going through the > gate and you > > will be right in front of the Community Center. Park in the area > > immediately > > in front. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Glasgow" > > To: "SERV" > > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 > > > > > >> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" > > > >> > >> Hi Guys, > >> > >> I remember some info about a fly-in near Ocala on March > 12. Can someone > >> send me the details. Looks like my schedule has changed > and I will be > >> available now. > >> > >> Steve Glasgow > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > ========= > ========= > ========= > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:28 PM PST US From: with HTTP/1.1; Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: March 12 --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: with HTTP/1.1; Ed, I can't figure out where to get Esten Spears email address, but I was planning on going down also. BTW, after I gave you so much grief about going to Stanton's the other day, I ended up having to stay home (and miserably earthbound) all weekend after an allergic reaction to mango. Now I'm "itching" to fly again. Hoping you have Esten's address. Scott