Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:17 AM - Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 07/11/05 (lee.logan@gulfstream.com)
2. 08:00 AM - still looking for a spare prop (jproctor6@nc.rr.com)
3. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 07/11/05 (Lenleg@aol.com)
4. 10:43 AM - Video update on accident (BOB martin)
5. 12:14 PM - Re: still looking for a spare prop (Larry Bowen)
6. 12:39 PM - Re: still looking for a spare prop (Rad Z)
7. 01:05 PM - Re: still looking for a spare prop (Larry Bowen)
8. 04:13 PM - Re: still looking for a spare prop (Jason Proctor)
9. 07:10 PM - Re: P-mag installation report (Larry Bowen)
10. 08:43 PM - Re: P-mag installation report (sportav8r@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 07/11/05 |
09:16:40 AM
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: lee.logan@gulfstream.com
Any information on what happened? Aviation tradgedies should be "mined"
for information so we have a better chance that it doesn't happen again.
Lee...
Lee Logan
Director, Government Programs and Sales Support
Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation
Savannah, Georgia
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Message 2
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| Subject: | still looking for a spare prop |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: jproctor6@nc.rr.com
Mike Demuth is trying his best to work me into his schedule but it
will be at least 4 weeks or so before I can expect my replacement
prop. That's not bad as far as lead times go but I'm really itching
to get back into the air and I've got a trip planned in 3 weeks.
While I'm waiting for my new prop I'm also still in the market for a
temporary spare to fly in the mean time.
Anyone with a spare prop to fit an RV4 with 180hp O-360, please feel
free to contact me.
Jason
N423WH
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 07/11/05 |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
In a message dated 7/12/05 9:17:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
lee.logan@gulfstream.com writes:
Any information on what happened? Aviation tradgedies should be "mined"
for information so we have a better chance that it doesn't happen again.
Lee
Nothing yet ... there were 6 planes flying formation ... divided into two
groups of 3 with a pass flying toward each other ... the RV-8 and Long-Eze
collided.
Zack ... who was leading the flight says he will post some thoughts later on.
Len
Message 4
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| Subject: | Video update on accident |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB martin" <libertyva@msn.com>
Guys, for those interested, you can go back to the news link and see video
footage of the accident. They got a copy from someone on the beach videoing
the flying.
I've watched it ten times and can't really seperate the RV from the EZ....
until they move away, broken.
It obviously happened right in front of the third man.....
this all raises more questions than it answers....
This is so tragic I can't believe it.......
Bob Martin
>From: Lenleg@aol.com
>Reply-To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
>To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
>07/11/05
>Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:19:52 EDT
>
>--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 7/12/05 9:17:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>lee.logan@gulfstream.com writes:
>
>Any information on what happened? Aviation tradgedies should be "mined"
>for information so we have a better chance that it doesn't happen again.
>
>Lee
>
>
>Nothing yet ... there were 6 planes flying formation ... divided into two
>groups of 3 with a pass flying toward each other ... the RV-8 and Long-Eze
>collided.
>
>Zack ... who was leading the flight says he will post some thoughts later
>on.
>
>Len
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | still looking for a spare prop |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I think I remember somebody posting an offer to you about this. Did you get
it? Or was I dreaming?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of jproctor6@nc.rr.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:00 AM
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: still looking for a spare prop
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: jproctor6@nc.rr.com
>
> Mike Demuth is trying his best to work me into his schedule
> but it will be at least 4 weeks or so before I can expect my
> replacement prop. That's not bad as far as lead times go but
> I'm really itching to get back into the air and I've got a
> trip planned in 3 weeks.
>
> While I'm waiting for my new prop I'm also still in the
> market for a temporary spare to fly in the mean time.
>
> Anyone with a spare prop to fit an RV4 with 180hp O-360,
> please feel free to contact me.
>
> Jason
> N423WH
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | still looking for a spare prop |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Rad Z <microsmurfer@yahoo.com>
I thought it was Wayne8 who had a Catto prop for
sale... sounded like a good match..
--- Larry Bowen <Larry@bowenaero.com> wrote:
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Larry
> Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I think I remember somebody posting an offer to you
> about this. Did you get
> it? Or was I dreaming?
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | still looking for a spare prop |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Here's the one I was thinking of:
http://tinyurl.com/8vd6z
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Rad Z
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:39 PM
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: still looking for a spare prop
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Rad Z <microsmurfer@yahoo.com>
>
> I thought it was Wayne8 who had a Catto prop for sale...
> sounded like a good match..
>
>
> --- Larry Bowen <Larry@bowenaero.com> wrote:
>
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Larry
> > Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> > I think I remember somebody posting an offer to you about
> this. Did
> > you get it? Or was I dreaming?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: still looking for a spare prop |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Jason Proctor" <jproctor6@nc.rr.com>
Yes, someone did respond with a Catto 3-blade but I wasn't too sure about
going with a 3-blade and those Catto's are somewhat expensive new so I
figured I wouldn't insult him by offering too little for it.
Thanks to all those who have responded.
Jason
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rad Z" <microsmurfer@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: still looking for a spare prop
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Rad Z <microsmurfer@yahoo.com>
>
> I thought it was Wayne8 who had a Catto prop for
> sale... sounded like a good match..
>
>
> --- Larry Bowen <Larry@bowenaero.com> wrote:
>
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Larry
> > Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> > I think I remember somebody posting an offer to you
> > about this. Did you get
> > it? Or was I dreaming?
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | P-mag installation report |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
So....how do they fly?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of sportav8r@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 10:50 PM
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com; Mid-AtlRVwing@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: P-mag installation report
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> Many of my fellow rvators have expressed interest in my
> impressions and experience with E-mag since I received my
> mags last month. Here's an update on my not-yet-flying installation.
>
> I started the job this past Saturday, removing the Slick mags
> and associated wiring and installing the wires and switching
> hardware for the dual P-mags per Bob Nuckoll's drawing Z-33,
> which I followed to the letter. Lots of drilling, pulling
> wire, on my back under the panel kind of work. The first
> hitch I encountered was Saturday night, when I broke a brass
> adapter in a spark plug hole. Amazingly, Brad Dement was in
> the shop on a Texas Saturday evening, building E-mags for
> impatient customers, and promised to rush a replacement to me
> as soon as possible. The Independence Day holiday put a
> crimp in that, but I digress...
>
> This is a good place to interject a warning to anyone else
> taking delivery of their Emags soon, if you are converting to
> automotive plugs: do not follow the instructions for
> torqueing the adapters first to 25 ft-lbs. At least one of
> the adapters is bound to fail. Install the spark plug into
> the adapter with anti-seize first, then insert the whole
> assembly into the cylinder and torque to 15 ft-lbs. Stop
> there. The plug's steel barrel will support the brass
> reducer and prevent it form tearing along the threads as the
> torque value is reached.
>
> My 14-to-18mm adapter yielded at about 20 ft-lbs and
> proceeded to split and unwind about 3/4 turn along the thread
> line, about 1/3 of the way down from the hex shoulder. When
> I felt this happen, I was able to back it out and inspect it.
> Given my impatient nature, and since the brass was all still
> in one piece, I elected to try reinstalling it with the plug
> inserted, and it seems to have done fine at 15 ft-lbs, but I
> will replace it with a new onebefore flying . Hope the old
> reducer comes out in one piece next time like it did the first :-)
>
> Last night was time to install the P-mags themselves in the
> accessory case and set the timing, and a most interesting
> time it was. I was unprepared for the frustration of trying
> to install the mags in their holes with new gaskets. The
> gaskets kept slipping out of position, and the mags were so
> tight in the holes that when seated enough to engage the gear
> teeth, they were impossible to turn by hand to dial in the
> timing. Applying a thick grease film helped keep the gaskets
> in place, but did almost nothing to make the P-mags easier to
> horse around in the holes. Nothing short of rocking the mags
> loose in the holes would free them enough to adjust the
> timing, so the result was always a huge overshoot and loss of
> the precious "green light" LED signal that the timing was
> right-on. Never have conventional mags behaved this way for me.
>
> It helped to discover that the mags each needed to rotate the
> same way the prop did to recapture the timing mark. I would
> secure the mag, rock the prop till the green light came on,
> then look at where the timing mark was, figure out which way
> the mag needed to be repositioned, and try again. Most
> frustrating of all was the dozens of times the green light
> would be on while the mag was in the clamps finiger-tight,
> only to see the light go out as the hardware was tightened
> down. I struggled with this task for over two hours, and in
> retrospect I think I should have taken a file to the aluminum
> P-mag body to create a little slack in the fit. I hated the
> thought of defiling (sorry!) the nice red anodized finish,
> even where it would never show. As I wrote to Brad Dement
> today, a "wrench" cut from hardwood, large enough to grab the
> flats on the body of the P-mag (3 inches wide?) would have
> helped leverage the mags into final alignment, if there was
> enough room to get a grip on t hem between all the FWF
> obstacles, which is questionable. I strongly advised him to
> machine the next production run a few thousandths narrower
> and avoid all this frustration, but at least you, my friends,
> are hereby warned.
>
> Tonight, raining though it was outside, was time to try 'em
> out. I put all the tools away and cleaned up the shop area
> around the prop arc. Reviewed instructions on handling the
> ignitions; I'm looking at all new switches here, new layout,
> no labels yet, no turn-key-to-start. Master... boost...
> prime... mixture...throttle set... R and L ignitionswitches
> full-up to BATT position, push the start toggle up, and - she
> catches on the first blade and purrs like a kitten. WOW!
> Turbine smooth. Tach is reading correctly, no need to adjust
> the tach pulse switches to get the correct reading; that's a
> relief. The GRT EIS seems happy; all readings are nominal.
> Run-up and mag check: butter-smooth to 1700 rpm, equal drop
> on both sides, both switches briefly off and she dies right
> away; switches up again and she recovers. Switches halfway
> down to the on (self-powered) position and she runs like
> nothing's amiss: the P-mag internal dynamo function is taking
> over for the "loss" of ship'
> s power. Yesssss! Feeding throttle in, there's nary a
> stumble or hesitation. Pull back to idle, incredibly smooth.
> Even running on one ignition at a time, the engine sounds
> different, stronger somehow, more confident. Yessir, I will
> have no hesitation about the upcoming test flights; she
> sounds really good, the best she's ever felt. I remember the
> same sensation after the dynamic balancing was done, but this
> takes "smooth" to yet another level.
>
> Last night I admit I was fantasizing about shoving Brad's
> pointy little head (I bet in reality he's a big, brawny
> Texan) into a mag hole and tightening it down ("Tell me when
> you get a green light, Brad!"). Tonight I think I want to
> give him a hug :-x These things are right!
>
> More to come later, of course, when I double-check the green
> timing light things, apply Loc-tite to the mag stud bolts,
> re-cowl, and generally get ready for flight tests in earnest.
> I was going to collect some pre-P-mag numbers on Friday, for
> a comparison benchmark (I have no new, hard data since a prop
> re-pitch this spring) but Friday's test flight was cut short
> when the carb heat Bowden cable came out an extra 6 inches in
> my hand in flight; shucks, it's not supposed to do that, is
> it? Better land and check it out. While the cowl is off,
> might as well start the P-mag install... so it happened that
> I have no recent Slick Mag data to compare against for top
> speed. I do know my 75% cruise fuel burn for may years has
> been 7.8 gph with aggressive leaning, so I can compare fuel
> economy with some certainty.
>
> Stay tuned. More to come.
>
> /Stormy out.
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: P-mag installation report |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
They fly, but too soon to say how well. We're adjusting and measuring, cutting
and trimming this month ;-)
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bowen <Larry@bowenaero.com>
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: P-mag installation report
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
So....how do they fly?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of sportav8r@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 10:50 PM
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com; Mid-AtlRVwing@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: P-mag installation report
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> Many of my fellow rvators have expressed interest in my
> impressions and experience with E-mag since I received my
> mags last month. Here's an update on my not-yet-flying installation.
>
> I started the job this past Saturday, removing the Slick mags
> and associated wiring and installing the wires and switching
> hardware for the dual P-mags per Bob Nuckoll's drawing Z-33,
> which I followed to the letter. Lots of drilling, pulling
> wire, on my back under the panel kind of work. The first
> hitch I encountered was Saturday night, when I broke a brass
> adapter in a spark plug hole. Amazingly, Brad Dement was in
> the shop on a Texas Saturday evening, building E-mags for
> impatient customers, and promised to rush a replacement to me
> as soon as possible. The Independence Day holiday put a
> crimp in that, but I digress...
>
> This is a good place to interject a warning to anyone else
> taking delivery of their Emags soon, if you are converting to
> automotive plugs: do not follow the instructions for
> torqueing the adapters first to 25 ft-lbs. At least one of
> the adapters is bound to fail. Install the spark plug into
> the adapter with anti-seize first, then insert the whole
> assembly into the cylinder and torque to 15 ft-lbs. Stop
> there. The plug's steel barrel will support the brass
> reducer and prevent it form tearing along the threads as the
> torque value is reached.
>
> My 14-to-18mm adapter yielded at about 20 ft-lbs and
> proceeded to split and unwind about 3/4 turn along the thread
> line, about 1/3 of the way down from the hex shoulder. When
> I felt this happen, I was able to back it out and inspect it.
> Given my impatient nature, and since the brass was all still
> in one piece, I elected to try reinstalling it with the plug
> inserted, and it seems to have done fine at 15 ft-lbs, but I
> will replace it with a new onebefore flying . Hope the old
> reducer comes out in one piece next time like it did the first :-)
>
> Last night was time to install the P-mags themselves in the
> accessory case and set the timing, and a most interesting
> time it was. I was unprepared for the frustration of trying
> to install the mags in their holes with new gaskets. The
> gaskets kept slipping out of position, and the mags were so
> tight in the holes that when seated enough to engage the gear
> teeth, they were impossible to turn by hand to dial in the
> timing. Applying a thick grease film helped keep the gaskets
> in place, but did almost nothing to make the P-mags easier to
> horse around in the holes. Nothing short of rocking the mags
> loose in the holes would free them enough to adjust the
> timing, so the result was always a huge overshoot and loss of
> the precious "green light" LED signal that the timing was
> right-on. Never have conventional mags behaved this way for me.
>
> It helped to discover that the mags each needed to rotate the
> same way the prop did to recapture the timing mark. I would
> secure the mag, rock the prop till the green light came on,
> then look at where the timing mark was, figure out which way
> the mag needed to be repositioned, and try again. Most
> frustrating of all was the dozens of times the green light
> would be on while the mag was in the clamps finiger-tight,
> only to see the light go out as the hardware was tightened
> down. I struggled with this task for over two hours, and in
> retrospect I think I should have taken a file to the aluminum
> P-mag body to create a little slack in the fit. I hated the
> thought of defiling (sorry!) the nice red anodized finish,
> even where it would never show. As I wrote to Brad Dement
> today, a "wrench" cut from hardwood, large enough to grab the
> flats on the body of the P-mag (3 inches wide?) would have
> helped leverage the mags into final alignment, if there was
> enough room to get a grip on t hem between all the FWF
> obstacles, which is questionable. I strongly advised him to
> machine the next production run a few thousandths narrower
> and avoid all this frustration, but at least you, my friends,
> are hereby warned.
>
> Tonight, raining though it was outside, was time to try 'em
> out. I put all the tools away and cleaned up the shop area
> around the prop arc. Reviewed instructions on handling the
> ignitions; I'm looking at all new switches here, new layout,
> no labels yet, no turn-key-to-start. Master... boost...
> prime... mixture...throttle set... R and L ignitionswitches
> full-up to BATT position, push the start toggle up, and - she
> catches on the first blade and purrs like a kitten. WOW!
> Turbine smooth. Tach is reading correctly, no need to adjust
> the tach pulse switches to get the correct reading; that's a
> relief. The GRT EIS seems happy; all readings are nominal.
> Run-up and mag check: butter-smooth to 1700 rpm, equal drop
> on both sides, both switches briefly off and she dies right
> away; switches up again and she recovers. Switches halfway
> down to the on (self-powered) position and she runs like
> nothing's amiss: the P-mag internal dynamo function is taking
> over for the "loss" of ship'
> s power. Yesssss! Feeding throttle in, there's nary a
> stumble or hesitation. Pull back to idle, incredibly smooth.
> Even running on one ignition at a time, the engine sounds
> different, stronger somehow, more confident. Yessir, I will
> have no hesitation about the upcoming test flights; she
> sounds really good, the best she's ever felt. I remember the
> same sensation after the dynamic balancing was done, but this
> takes "smooth" to yet another level.
>
> Last night I admit I was fantasizing about shoving Brad's
> pointy little head (I bet in reality he's a big, brawny
> Texan) into a mag hole and tightening it down ("Tell me when
> you get a green light, Brad!"). Tonight I think I want to
> give him a hug :-x These things are right!
>
> More to come later, of course, when I double-check the green
> timing light things, apply Loc-tite to the mag stud bolts,
> re-cowl, and generally get ready for flight tests in earnest.
> I was going to collect some pre-P-mag numbers on Friday, for
> a comparison benchmark (I have no new, hard data since a prop
> re-pitch this spring) but Friday's test flight was cut short
> when the carb heat Bowden cable came out an extra 6 inches in
> my hand in flight; shucks, it's not supposed to do that, is
> it? Better land and check it out. While the cowl is off,
> might as well start the P-mag install... so it happened that
> I have no recent Slick Mag data to compare against for top
> speed. I do know my 75% cruise fuel burn for may years has
> been 7.8 gph with aggressive leaning, so I can compare fuel
> economy with some certainty.
>
> Stay tuned. More to come.
>
> /Stormy out.
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
>
>
>
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