---------------------------------------------------------- RVSouthEast-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/21/05: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:17 AM - Re: Need some help ....... RV8/8A flaps (Steve Glasgow) 2. 03:52 AM - Re: Need some help ....... RV8/8A flaps (Craig) 3. 05:05 AM - Re: Fw: [Team RV] Your Aerobatic Gross Weight (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 4. 05:11 AM - Re: Need some help ....... RV8/8A flaps (Lenleg@aol.com) 5. 05:32 AM - Re: Stormy's Altitude hold is on the way (Mike.Munn@fluor.com) 6. 06:44 AM - Re: Need some help ....... RV8/8A flaps (Craig) 7. 08:41 AM - (sportav8r@aol.com) 8. 01:52 PM - reply to Kahuna (sportav8r@aol.com) 9. 07:07 PM - Re: Stormy's Altitude hold is on the way (Demeylor@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:23 AM PST US From: "Steve Glasgow" Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Need some help ....... RV8/8A flaps --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" I might be able to come on Monday as well. Let me know what time Larry is coming. Steve Glasgow-Cappy N123SG RV-8 Cappy's Toy 704-362-0005 704-281-7884 ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig To: SERV Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:37 PM Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Need some help ....... RV8/8A flaps --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Craig I am now officially frustrated. After several days of measuring, trimming, test fitting and generally scratching my head and pondering, I am still no closer to figuring out how to make these flaps fit well. I have the wings installed for the first time and am in the process of preparing to drill the sacred rear spar bolt holes. Per Van's instructions, I am also test fitting the flaps. With the wing set up properly (I think), the left flap fits reasonably well, but is about 1/8" below the fuselage bottom in the up position. The trailing edge of the right flap ends up about 1/4" lower than the trailing edge of the left flap. This is a very noticeable difference. Also, I may have trimmed too much off of the inboard end of the top flap skin........ not sure if the flap fairing will cover that........ if I can figure out how to make the flap fairing work at all with the current flap fit up. In short, I really need to look at one that actually works and would greatly appreciate someone who has done this before laying an eyeball on mine. If any of you 8/8A drivers need a destination to fly to and have time to stop by 6NC3, Eastover Air Ranch in Fayetteville in the coming days, I would greatly appreciate some advice. Lunch is on me of course! With the exception of Saturday and Sunday, I am open to most any time from tomorrow through next Monday. Give me a call if you think you can help, 910-257-1842. I know this is a busy time of year for everyone, but I would appreciate the help if possible. Thanks. Craig Gallenbach RV8AQB ....... tryin' to make the big pieces fit together ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:43 AM PST US From: Craig Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Need some help ....... RV8/8A flaps --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Craig That would be great if one or both of you could make it. I'll be in touch. Thanks, Craig ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:24 AM PST US Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [Team RV] Your Aerobatic Gross Weight From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" So Stormy. Im running off half cocked? Perhaps you would care to elaborate. Vans statement to Randy has now been confirmed by several highly respected individuals who have also spoken to Vans in person. What say you now? This is quite simple..... Mr. Conservative (Vans) went into a room with his engineers and came out and said "forget the fuel." This new position by the designer gives us much more utility than we have previously been able to use. Frankly, a lot more. And your clich, " No old, bold pilots" is cute. However, I know and fly with a lot of old bold pilots. They test and enjoy the envelope while others sit back and watch. So while some are 'urging caution', what would YOU say we do with this new piece of information? Best, Kahuna Maybe fully cocked Do not archive Subject: Re: Fwd: [Team RV] Your Aerobatic Gross Weight From: sportav8r@AOL.COM --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com please read the ENTIRE thread in the archives before running off and doing acro at an extra 250 lbs wt. Kahuna seems to be ready to run off half-cocked here and others are urging caution, which seems wise to me. No old, bold pilots, right? -Stormy If Van didn't put it in writing, it's urban legend until proven otherwise, and you're the test pilot. -----Original Message----- From: Lenleg@aol.com Subject: Fwd: [Team RV] Your Aerobatic Gross Weight --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com In a message dated 12/17/2005 7:43:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mstewart@iss.net writes: Some of you may have met Randy Lervold, fellow RV driver who did a lot of prop testing for us. He has just extracted a little piece of information out of Vans that I thought you might find interesting. This is revolutionary for an RV owner. There has been some confusion about Aerobatic gross weight on the RV-3 ever since the new B wings were introduced in 1998. I spoke with Van himself twice this week on this issue, he in turn discussed with his staff internally, and have now clarified it. Aerobatic gross weight for the RV-3 (all models, all wings) is 1,050 lbs. (no confusion on this). This figure however does NOT include fuel in WING tanks which is what was not clear. Note that any fuel in a fuselage tank WOULD be included in the Aerobatic gross. Interestingly, he confirmed that this method applies to any RV model. As an RV-8 builder/pilot I interpreted Van's W&B instructions to mean that fuel WAS included in Aerobatic Category gross weight calculations as well as Utility/Normal Category gross weight operation. In fact that is erroneous -- as long as the fuel is in wing tanks it may be excluded from the Aerobatic calculation and limit. Of course Van's points out that weight has other deleterious effects on aerobatic handling and encourages pilots to use good judgement when loading their aircraft for aerobatics. Taken from here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=4595 Frankly I don't know whether to smile at the added utility of my plane, or shoot Vans for withholding this data. I think Ill just do both! A lot of fun has been left on the table over the years. Best, Kahuna by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2005 12:43:24 -0000 by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2005 12:43:24 -0000 From: "Stewart, Michael \(ISS Atlanta\)" List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: Subject: [Team RV] Your Aerobatic Gross Weight Some of you may have met Randy Lervold, fellow RV driver who did a lot of prop testing for us. He has just extracted a little piece of information out of Vans that I thought you might find interesting. This is revolutionary for an RV owner. There has been some confusion about Aerobatic gross weight on the RV-3 ever since the new B wings were introduced in 1998. I spoke with Van himself twice this week on this issue, he in turn discussed with his staff internally, and have now clarified it. Aerobatic gross weight for the RV-3 (all models, all wings) is 1,050 lbs. (no confusion on this). This figure however does NOT include fuel in WING tanks which is what was not clear. Note that any fuel in a fuselage tank WOULD be included in the Aerobatic gross. Interestingly, he confirmed that this method applies to any RV model. As an RV-8 builder/pilot I interpreted Van's W&B instructions to mean that fuel WAS included in Aerobatic Category gross weight calculations as well as Utility/Normal Category gross weight operation. In fact that is erroneous -- as long as the fuel is in wing tanks it may be excluded from the Aerobatic calculation and limit. Of course Van's points out that weight has other deleterious effects on aerobatic handling and encourages pilots to use good judgement when loading their aircraft for aerobatics. Taken from here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=4595 Frankly I don't know whether to smile at the added utility of my plane, or shoot Vans for withholding this data. I think Ill just do both! A lot of fun has been left on the table over the years. Best, Kahuna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Click Here! <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teamrv/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: teamrv-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Other Matronics Email List Services Post A New Message RVsoutheast-List@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RVsoutheast-List.htm Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browsing http://www.matronics.com/browse Browse the List Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contributions These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous contributions of its members. -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! -- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:46 AM PST US From: Lenleg@aol.com Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Need some help ....... RV8/8A flaps --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com In a message dated 12/21/2005 5:18:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, willfly@carolina.rr.com writes: I might be able to come on Monday as well. Let me know what time Larry is coming. I might come too ... might as well have a group !!! Len ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Stormy's Altitude hold is on the way From: Mike.Munn@fluor.com (Release 6.5.4FP1 | June 19, 2005) at 12/21/2005 08:33:02 --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Mike.Munn@fluor.com Congrats!!! Mike M do not archive bill crothers Sent by: To owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@m rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com atronics.com cc 12/20/2005 07:20 PM Please respond to Subject rvsoutheast-list Re: RVSouthEast-List: Stormy's Altitude hold is on the way --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: bill crothers Speaking of Merry Christmas, I'm now the proud owner of Scott Keadle's 8. (how quick was that, Cappy?) Looking real forward to many 200 mph days. Wife is even willing to go since back seat is huge compared to 4. Will likely take it to next months LAL deal if I can learn to grease those ldgs. by then...bill c. (Reno Red 2) --- Steve Glasgow wrote: > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve > Glasgow" > > Don't forget there is help is you need it. Cappy's > Toy just passed it's Transponder check at Twin Lakes > Avionics. Good job. Nice people. Good price. > $75. I promised them all Larry would give them a > ride. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sportav8r@aol.com > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:06 PM > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Stormy's Altitude hold > is on the way > > > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: > sportav8r@aol.com > > Trio shipped my unit yesterday; should be here > tomorrow or Friday. Looks like I'll be on my belly > in the tailcone come Christmas :-) > > -Stormy > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Admin. > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:34 AM PST US From: Craig Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Need some help ....... RV8/8A flaps --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Craig Len, Great! The more eyes the better. I'll be in touch as the time gets closer. Right now the long range weather guess is looking OK. Thanks, Craig ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:22 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: RVSouthEast-List: --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com Kahuna: Please see my comments embedded below. --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" So Stormy. Im running off half cocked? >>Mike, I believe the quote is "seems to be ready to run off..." How much more qualified could I have made that statement?<< Perhaps you would care to elaborate. >> I don't feel the need to elaborate; it's all well-documented on the RV-List. My worry was that there are persons on the SouthEast list who are not subscribed to the RV List, and would not have the benefit of the CHORUS of voices urging you to be careful how you applied this new information. That is all.<< Vans statement to Randy has now been confirmed by several highly respected individuals who have also spoken to Vans in person. What say you now? >>I say it seems to be corroborated. Perhaps it will appear in print soon in an RVator. That would put it to rest for me.<< This is quite simple..... Mr. Conservative (Vans) went into a room with his engineers and came out and said "forget the fuel." This new position by the designer gives us much more utility than we have previously been able to use. Frankly, a lot more. And your clich, " No old, bold pilots" is cute. However, I know and fly with a lot of old bold pilots. >>Then you should be careful, because bad company corrupts good morals, or something like that ;-)<< They test and enjoy the envelope while others sit back and watch.>>Then they are not "bold" in the sense of "reckless" that the cliche requires. They simply have The Right Stuff. I have no problem with that.<< So while some are 'urging caution', what would YOU say we do with this new piece of information? >>Just what you have apparently done: substantiate it, understand what it does and doesn't mean (no "adding 250 # to all our allowable weights" as someone said), and disseminate it carefully, in context. << Best, Kahuna Maybe fully cocked>> Dude, I'm not going there.<< Do not archive >> Excellent idea.<< My only concern here is your safety and everone else's, and my intent was to get the SERV brethren to read the entire discussion as it unfolded, or in the archives, and not just your post to the SERV list, which did not mention the feedback you were already getting from concerned friends. If that was wrong, I apologize right here in front of everybody. -Stormy Subject: Re: Fwd: [Team RV] Your Aerobatic Gross Weight From: sportav8r@AOL.COM --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com please read the ENTIRE thread in the archives before running off and doing acro at an extra 250 lbs wt. Kahuna seems to be ready to run off half-cocked here and others are urging caution, which seems wise to me. No old, bold pilots, right? -Stormy If Van didn't put it in writing, it's urban legend until proven otherwise, and you're the test pilot. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:37 PM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: RVSouthEast-List: reply to Kahuna --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com I thought I sent this earlier today, but I guess it "poofed..." -----Original Message----- From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) mstewart@iss.net --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" So Stormy. Im running off half cocked? >>Mike, I believe the quote is "seems to be ready to run off..." How much more qualified could I have made that statement?<< Perhaps you would care to elaborate. >> I don't feel the need to elaborate; it's all well-documented on the RV-List. My worry was that there are persons on the SouthEast list who are not subscribed to the RV List, and would not have the benefit of the CHORUS of voices urging you to be careful how you applied this new information. That is all.<< Vans statement to Randy has now been confirmed by several highly respected individuals who have also spoken to Vans in person. What say you now? >>I say it seems to be corroborated. Perhaps it will appear in print soon in an RVator.<< This is quite simple..... Mr. Conservative (Vans) went into a room with his engineers and came out and said "forget the fuel." This new position by the designer gives us much more utility than we have previously been able to use. Frankly, a lot more. And your clich, " No old, bold pilots" is cute. However, I know and fly with a lot of old bold pilots. >>Then you should be careful, because bad company corrupts good morals, or something like that ;-)<< They test and enjoy the envelope while others sit back and watch.>>Then they are not bold in the sense of reckless that the cliche requires. They simply have The Right Stuff. I have no problem with that.<< So while some are 'urging caution', what would YOU say we do with this new piece of information? >>Just what you have apparently done: substantiate it, understand what it does and doesn't mean (no "adding 250 # to all our allowable weights" as someone said), and disseminate it carefully, in context. << Best, Kahuna Maybe fully cocked>> dude, I'm not going there.<< Do not archive Subject: Re: Fwd: [Team RV] Your Aerobatic Gross Weight From: sportav8r@AOL.COM --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com please read the ENTIRE thread in the archives before running off and doing acro at an extra 250 lbs wt. Kahuna seems to be ready to run off half-cocked here and others are urging caution, which seems wise to me. No old, bold pilots, right? -Stormy If Van didn't put it in writing, it's urban legend until proven otherwise, and you're the test pilot. -----Original Message----- From: Lenleg@aol.com Subject: Fwd: [Team RV] Your Aerobatic Gross Weight --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com In a message dated 12/17/2005 7:43:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mstewart@iss.net writes: Some of you may have met Randy Lervold, fellow RV driver who did a lot of prop testing for us. He has just extracted a little piece of information out of Vans that I thought you might find interesting. This is revolutionary for an RV owner. There has been some confusion about Aerobatic gross weight on the RV-3 ever since the new B wings were introduced in 1998. I spoke with Van himself twice this week on this issue, he in turn discussed with his staff internally, and have now clarified it. Aerobatic gross weight for the RV-3 (all models, all wings) is 1,050 lbs. (no confusion on this). This figure however does NOT include fuel in WING tanks which is what was not clear. Note that any fuel in a fuselage tank WOULD be included in the Aerobatic gross. Interestingly, he confirmed that this method applies to any RV model. As an RV-8 builder/pilot I interpreted Van's W&B instructions to mean that fuel WAS included in Aerobatic Category gross weight calculations as well as Utility/Normal Category gross weight operation. In fact that is erroneous -- as long as the fuel is in wing tanks it may be excluded from the Aerobatic calculation and limit. Of course Van's points out that weight has other deleterious effects on aerobatic handling and encourages pilots to use good judgement when loading their aircraft for aerobatics. Taken from here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=4595 Frankly I don't know whether to smile at the added utility of my plane, or shoot Vans for withholding this data. I think Ill just do both! A lot of fun has been left on the table over the years. Best, Kahuna by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2005 12:43:24 -0000 by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2005 12:43:24 -0000 From: "Stewart, Michael \(ISS Atlanta\)" List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: Subject: [Team RV] Your Aerobatic Gross Weight Some of you may have met Randy Lervold, fellow RV driver who did a lot of prop testing for us. He has just extracted a little piece of information out of Vans that I thought you might find interesting. This is revolutionary for an RV owner. There has been some confusion about Aerobatic gross weight on the RV-3 ever since the new B wings were introduced in 1998. I spoke with Van himself twice this week on this issue, he in turn discussed with his staff internally, and have now clarified it. Aerobatic gross weight for the RV-3 (all models, all wings) is 1,050 lbs. (no confusion on this). This figure however does NOT include fuel in WING tanks which is what was not clear. Note that any fuel in a fuselage tank WOULD be included in the Aerobatic gross. Interestingly, he confirmed that this method applies to any RV model. As an RV-8 builder/pilot I interpreted Van's W&B instructions to mean that fuel WAS included in Aerobatic Category gross weight calculations as well as Utility/Normal Category gross weight operation. In fact that is erroneous -- as long as the fuel is in wing tanks it may be excluded from the Aerobatic calculation and limit. Of course Van's points out that weight has other deleterious effects on aerobatic handling and encourages pilots to use good judgement when loading their aircraft for aerobatics. Taken from here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=4595 Frankly I don't know whether to smile at the added utility of my plane, or shoot Vans for withholding this data. I think Ill just do both! A lot of fun has been left on the table over the years. Best, Kahuna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Click Here! <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teamrv/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: teamrv-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Other Matronics Email List Services Post A New Message RVsoutheast-List@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RVsoutheast-List.htm Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browsing http://www.matronics.com/browse Browse the List Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contributions These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous contributions of its members. -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! -- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:54 PM PST US From: Demeylor@aol.com Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Stormy's Altitude hold is on the way --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Demeylor@aol.com