Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:00 AM - Liablilty (Steve Glasgow)
2. 06:33 AM - Liablilty (BOB MARTIN)
3. 06:55 AM - Re: Liablilty (Steve Glasgow)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: Exculpatory Agreements/ Liablilty Release (Dale Ensing)
5. 07:02 AM - Re: Liablilty (Steve Glasgow)
6. 07:08 AM - Re: Liablilty (Steve Glasgow)
7. 07:14 AM - Re: Exculpatory Agreements/ Liablilty Release (BOB MARTIN)
8. 07:18 AM - Re: Liablilty (BOB MARTIN)
9. 07:47 AM - Re: Liablilty (Steve Glasgow)
10. 07:48 AM - Re: Liablilty (Ed Anderson)
11. 07:58 AM - Re: Liablilty (Steve Glasgow)
12. 10:47 AM - Re: Liablilty (Ed Anderson)
13. 11:18 AM - Re: Liablilty (Steve Glasgow)
14. 06:36 PM - Re: Liablilty (Ron and Shannon AWAD)
15. 07:13 PM - Re: Liablilty (Steve Glasgow)
16. 08:52 PM - first P-MAG "save" (Radomir Zaric)
Message 1
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in contact
with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html
I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
ourselves.
If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
Cappy
Message 2
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN" <libertyva@msn.com>
Cappy,
Thanks for the links.
I'm interested for sure!
My partnership in our RV-6 broke up over the Liability issue and I've been looking
into it already.
I've brought up the topic before to the guys and they weren't too interested in
looking for a fix.
AOPA has a Exculpatory Agreements/Liability Release on their website.
I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added the EXPERMENTAL
warning verbage from the decal in the instrument panel. I like it......but
haven't used it yet.
I contacted my insurance company and asked them about the Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Release.
they said it wouldn't affect insurance either way. They added that it wasn't recognized
in all states, just like the Link said.
I called AOPA and asked what states did and what states didn't and wouldn't talk
to me about it unless I bought the Legal services plan they are selling. and
that is where I have stopped.
I can scan and email my form for anyone to see and review.
We can only get 100,000. of liability insurance and that isn't near enough.
EAA adds an additional 1 million if your pax is the right age and you are a member
and get the forms signed.
Getting a parent or any adult to understand just what they are doing when they
climb into any-aircraft is a good thing.
If your state doesn't recognize it than it could be a waste of time, drafting one
up....but if they do, than it would be a very good thing to have.
In the mean time, the EAA young eagles program is a good way to go too and free
to us, kinda.
Don't get me wrong......I don't want to be insurance poor.....I spend enough already!
but I've been involved in legal action at showed me you don't get justice
in a courtroom and you can lose everything because of an accident. If there
is a way to help ourselves, we should look into it. Being more aware is a good
thing.
Count me in.
Bob Martin
RV-6
Louisa, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
To: SERV<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in contact
with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
ourselves.
If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
Cappy
Message 3
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
After I hear back from everyone I plan to approach this as a group effort. Apparently
from state to state there is some research that he may need to do. Thing
may be different in each state.
Here is what I have received from Phillip Kolczynsk:
Steve:
My standard fee is $295.00/hr. and I have a two hour minimum. I should be able
to interview you over the phone, prepare the Release and transmit it with an advice
cover letter in two hours. Please understand that while a Release can be
a useful defense tool when signed with voluntary consent by a passenger, it is
clearly not enforceable against people injured outside of your aircraft. Also,
appreciate that there is no guarantee that any or all judges will enforce a
Release of Liability. I prepare a detailed customized release for each aviation
client to give you a good chance of enforcement.
Phil
Thanks for your reply. What would your fee be to prepare a release for a sale,
a release for passengers and the research you discussed?
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
704-362-0005
704-281-7884
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillip Kolczynski
To: Steve Glasgow
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: Aviation Liability
Steve:
I prepare custom Releases for people all over the country but I am not licensed
in North Carolina, so you would have to have a North Carolina lawyer review
it. I could recommend one if you hire me to prepare your Release. I do not
know if Carolina courts enforce these releases but I could research that if you
retain me. Also, if you hire me I could also advise you on how to proceed to
minimize your exposure.
Phil
I enjoyed reading your very informative web site today. Thanks for making
it available.
I am an owner and builder of an RV-8 and am very interested in avoiding liability
when I sell my plane and while I am operating it.
Do you currently have or can you prepare Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Releases for use in North Carolina.? I am interested in one for passengers and
one for sales.
Because most aircraft accidents are attributed to engine failure, my plan
when I sell the plane is to fly it to the purchaser, remove the engine and let
the new purchaser re-install the engine.
Since I did not build the engine and only installed it I feel this may help
in the liability issue. Is my thinking correct?
Thanks for any assistance you may provide.
Steve Glasgow
3931 Melchor Avenue
Charlotte, NC 28211
willfly@carolina.rr.com
704-362-0005 H
704-281-7884 C
----- Original Message -----
From: BOB MARTIN
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:33 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN" <libertyva@msn.com>
Cappy,
Thanks for the links.
I'm interested for sure!
My partnership in our RV-6 broke up over the Liability issue and I've been looking
into it already.
I've brought up the topic before to the guys and they weren't too interested
in looking for a fix.
AOPA has a Exculpatory Agreements/Liability Release on their website.
I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added the EXPERMENTAL
warning verbage from the decal in the instrument panel. I like it......but
haven't used it yet.
I contacted my insurance company and asked them about the Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Release.
they said it wouldn't affect insurance either way. They added that it wasn't
recognized in all states, just like the Link said.
I called AOPA and asked what states did and what states didn't and wouldn't talk
to me about it unless I bought the Legal services plan they are selling. and
that is where I have stopped.
I can scan and email my form for anyone to see and review.
We can only get 100,000. of liability insurance and that isn't near enough.
EAA adds an additional 1 million if your pax is the right age and you are a member
and get the forms signed.
Getting a parent or any adult to understand just what they are doing when they
climb into any-aircraft is a good thing.
If your state doesn't recognize it than it could be a waste of time, drafting
one up....but if they do, than it would be a very good thing to have.
In the mean time, the EAA young eagles program is a good way to go too and free
to us, kinda.
Don't get me wrong......I don't want to be insurance poor.....I spend enough
already! but I've been involved in legal action at showed me you don't get justice
in a courtroom and you can lose everything because of an accident. If there
is a way to help ourselves, we should look into it. Being more aware is a
good thing.
Count me in.
Bob Martin
RV-6
Louisa, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
To: SERV<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in contact
with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
ourselves.
If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
Cappy
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Exculpatory Agreements/ Liablilty Release |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
" I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added the
EXPERMENTAL warning verbiage from the decal in the instrument panel. I like
it......but haven't used it yet."
Bob, please explain how you would use it. Would you have a passenger read
and sign a copy of the document?
Dale Ensing
Message 5
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Yes pleas send yours.
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
704-362-0005
704-281-7884
----- Original Message -----
From: BOB MARTIN
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:33 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN" <libertyva@msn.com>
Cappy,
Thanks for the links.
I'm interested for sure!
My partnership in our RV-6 broke up over the Liability issue and I've been looking
into it already.
I've brought up the topic before to the guys and they weren't too interested
in looking for a fix.
AOPA has a Exculpatory Agreements/Liability Release on their website.
I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added the EXPERMENTAL
warning verbage from the decal in the instrument panel. I like it......but
haven't used it yet.
I contacted my insurance company and asked them about the Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Release.
they said it wouldn't affect insurance either way. They added that it wasn't
recognized in all states, just like the Link said.
I called AOPA and asked what states did and what states didn't and wouldn't talk
to me about it unless I bought the Legal services plan they are selling. and
that is where I have stopped.
I can scan and email my form for anyone to see and review.
We can only get 100,000. of liability insurance and that isn't near enough.
EAA adds an additional 1 million if your pax is the right age and you are a member
and get the forms signed.
Getting a parent or any adult to understand just what they are doing when they
climb into any-aircraft is a good thing.
If your state doesn't recognize it than it could be a waste of time, drafting
one up....but if they do, than it would be a very good thing to have.
In the mean time, the EAA young eagles program is a good way to go too and free
to us, kinda.
Don't get me wrong......I don't want to be insurance poor.....I spend enough
already! but I've been involved in legal action at showed me you don't get justice
in a courtroom and you can lose everything because of an accident. If there
is a way to help ourselves, we should look into it. Being more aware is a
good thing.
Count me in.
Bob Martin
RV-6
Louisa, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
To: SERV<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in contact
with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
ourselves.
If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
Cappy
Message 6
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Sorry guys, I inadvertently sent message to the group and meant to keep the details
off list.
If you are interested please contact me off list.
Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Glasgow
To: SERV
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in contact
with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html
I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
ourselves.
If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
Cappy
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Exculpatory Agreements/ Liablilty Release |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN" <libertyva@msn.com>
Dale,
Yes, I would have a adult pax or his/her parent read it and sign it before the
flight.
It kinda points out what they are about to do, could be dangerous and are agreeing
to hold me harmless in the event of an accident. It would really make them
think about it. I don't want to scare anybody as I really like to share the
excitement of flying....one reason I have a 2 seater (and my wife insisted) but
if someone reads the form and doesn't want to sign it.......well, then I'm
not sure I wanted to take them up in the first place.
My partner pointed out in one of our many conversations about this that, most people
don't understand the difference between our planes and spam cans....so rent
a cessna and give them a ride.......you can get more insurance on a certified
plane.
Bob Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing<mailto:densing@carolina.rr.com>
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Exculpatory Agreements/ Liablilty Release
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com<mailto:densing@carolina.rr.com>>
" I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added the
EXPERMENTAL warning verbiage from the decal in the instrument panel. I like
it......but haven't used it yet."
Bob, please explain how you would use it. Would you have a passenger read
and sign a copy of the document?
Dale Ensing
Message 8
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN" <libertyva@msn.com>
Cappy,
Is there a reason to keep it off list??
seems the information is general enough that we would all be interested in reading
it. Even if we didn't want to get involved.
Bob Martin
libertyva@msn.com<mailto:libertyva@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
Sorry guys, I inadvertently sent message to the group and meant to keep the details
off list.
If you are interested please contact me off list.
Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Glasgow
To: SERV
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in contact
with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
ourselves.
If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
Cappy
Message 9
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
The reason is it may become cumbersome and hard to follow for those that are interested
and or boring for those not interested. Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: BOB MARTIN
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN" <libertyva@msn.com>
Cappy,
Is there a reason to keep it off list??
seems the information is general enough that we would all be interested in reading
it. Even if we didn't want to get involved.
Bob Martin
libertyva@msn.com<mailto:libertyva@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
Sorry guys, I inadvertently sent message to the group and meant to keep the
details off list.
If you are interested please contact me off list.
Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Glasgow
To: SERV
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in contact
with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory Agreements/Liability
Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
ourselves.
If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
Cappy
Message 10
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>
> After I hear back from everyone I plan to approach this as a group effort.
> Apparently from state to state there is some research that he may need to
> do. Thing may be different in each state.
>
> Here is what I have received from Phillip Kolczynsk:
>
> Steve:
>
>
> My standard fee is $295.00/hr. and I have a two hour minimum. I should be
> able to interview you over the phone, prepare the Release and transmit it
> with an advice cover letter in two hours. Please understand that while a
> Release can be a useful defense tool when signed with voluntary consent by
> a passenger, it is clearly not enforceable against people injured outside
> of your aircraft. Also, appreciate that there is no guarantee that any or
> all judges will enforce a Release of Liability. I prepare a detailed
> customized release for each aviation client to give you a good chance of
> enforcement.
>
>
> Phil
> Thanks for your reply. What would your fee be to prepare a release for a
> sale, a release for passengers and the research you discussed?
> Steve Glasgow-Cappy
> N123SG RV-8
> Cappy's Toy
> 704-362-0005
> 704-281-7884
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Phillip Kolczynski
> To: Steve Glasgow
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Aviation Liability
> Steve:
> I prepare custom Releases for people all over the country but I am not
> licensed in North Carolina, so you would have to have a North Carolina
> lawyer review it. I could recommend one if you hire me to prepare your
> Release. I do not know if Carolina courts enforce these releases but I
> could research that if you retain me. Also, if you hire me I could also
> advise you on how to proceed to minimize your exposure.
>
>
> Phil
> I enjoyed reading your very informative web site today. Thanks for
> making it available.
>
> I am an owner and builder of an RV-8 and am very interested in
> avoiding liability when I sell my plane and while I am operating it.
>
> Do you currently have or can you prepare Exculpatory
> Agreements/Liability Releases for use in North Carolina.? I am interested
> in one for passengers and one for sales.
>
> Because most aircraft accidents are attributed to engine failure, my
> plan when I sell the plane is to fly it to the purchaser, remove the
> engine and let the new purchaser re-install the engine.
>
> Since I did not build the engine and only installed it I feel this
> may help in the liability issue. Is my thinking correct?
>
> Thanks for any assistance you may provide.
>
> Steve Glasgow
> 3931 Melchor Avenue
> Charlotte, NC 28211
> willfly@carolina.rr.com
> 704-362-0005 H
> 704-281-7884 C
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: BOB MARTIN
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:33 AM
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN" <libertyva@msn.com>
>
> Cappy,
> Thanks for the links.
> I'm interested for sure!
> My partnership in our RV-6 broke up over the Liability issue and I've
> been looking into it already.
> I've brought up the topic before to the guys and they weren't too
> interested in looking for a fix.
> AOPA has a Exculpatory Agreements/Liability Release on their website.
> I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added the
> EXPERMENTAL warning verbage from the decal in the instrument panel. I like
> it......but haven't used it yet.
> I contacted my insurance company and asked them about the Exculpatory
> Agreements/Liability Release.
> they said it wouldn't affect insurance either way. They added that it
> wasn't recognized in all states, just like the Link said.
> I called AOPA and asked what states did and what states didn't and
> wouldn't talk to me about it unless I bought the Legal services plan they
> are selling. and that is where I have stopped.
> I can scan and email my form for anyone to see and review.
> We can only get 100,000. of liability insurance and that isn't near
> enough.
> EAA adds an additional 1 million if your pax is the right age and you are
> a member and get the forms signed.
> Getting a parent or any adult to understand just what they are doing when
> they climb into any-aircraft is a good thing.
> If your state doesn't recognize it than it could be a waste of time,
> drafting one up....but if they do, than it would be a very good thing to
> have.
> In the mean time, the EAA young eagles program is a good way to go too
> and free to us, kinda.
> Don't get me wrong......I don't want to be insurance poor.....I spend
> enough already! but I've been involved in legal action at showed me you
> don't get justice in a courtroom and you can lose everything because of an
> accident. If there is a way to help ourselves, we should look into it.
> Being more aware is a good thing.
> Count me in.
> Bob Martin
> RV-6
> Louisa, VA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> To: SERV<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
>
> Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in
> contact
> with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
>
> http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
>
> I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory
> Agreements/Liability
> Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
> Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
> ourselves.
>
> If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
>
> Cappy
>
>
>
Message 11
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| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Ed is there a message? Maybe my eyes are just old and feeble.
Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Anderson
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>
> After I hear back from everyone I plan to approach this as a group effort.
> Apparently from state to state there is some research that he may need to
> do. Thing may be different in each state.
>
> Here is what I have received from Phillip Kolczynsk:
>
> Steve:
>
>
> My standard fee is $295.00/hr. and I have a two hour minimum. I should be
> able to interview you over the phone, prepare the Release and transmit it
> with an advice cover letter in two hours. Please understand that while a
> Release can be a useful defense tool when signed with voluntary consent by
> a passenger, it is clearly not enforceable against people injured outside
> of your aircraft. Also, appreciate that there is no guarantee that any or
> all judges will enforce a Release of Liability. I prepare a detailed
> customized release for each aviation client to give you a good chance of
> enforcement.
>
>
> Phil
> Thanks for your reply. What would your fee be to prepare a release for a
> sale, a release for passengers and the research you discussed?
> Steve Glasgow-Cappy
> N123SG RV-8
> Cappy's Toy
> 704-362-0005
> 704-281-7884
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Phillip Kolczynski
> To: Steve Glasgow
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Aviation Liability
> Steve:
> I prepare custom Releases for people all over the country but I am not
> licensed in North Carolina, so you would have to have a North Carolina
> lawyer review it. I could recommend one if you hire me to prepare your
> Release. I do not know if Carolina courts enforce these releases but I
> could research that if you retain me. Also, if you hire me I could also
> advise you on how to proceed to minimize your exposure.
>
>
> Phil
> I enjoyed reading your very informative web site today. Thanks for
> making it available.
>
> I am an owner and builder of an RV-8 and am very interested in
> avoiding liability when I sell my plane and while I am operating it.
>
> Do you currently have or can you prepare Exculpatory
> Agreements/Liability Releases for use in North Carolina.? I am interested
> in one for passengers and one for sales.
>
> Because most aircraft accidents are attributed to engine failure, my
> plan when I sell the plane is to fly it to the purchaser, remove the
> engine and let the new purchaser re-install the engine.
>
> Since I did not build the engine and only installed it I feel this
> may help in the liability issue. Is my thinking correct?
>
> Thanks for any assistance you may provide.
>
> Steve Glasgow
> 3931 Melchor Avenue
> Charlotte, NC 28211
> willfly@carolina.rr.com
> 704-362-0005 H
> 704-281-7884 C
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: BOB MARTIN
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:33 AM
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN" <libertyva@msn.com>
>
> Cappy,
> Thanks for the links.
> I'm interested for sure!
> My partnership in our RV-6 broke up over the Liability issue and I've
> been looking into it already.
> I've brought up the topic before to the guys and they weren't too
> interested in looking for a fix.
> AOPA has a Exculpatory Agreements/Liability Release on their website.
> I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added the
> EXPERMENTAL warning verbage from the decal in the instrument panel. I like
> it......but haven't used it yet.
> I contacted my insurance company and asked them about the Exculpatory
> Agreements/Liability Release.
> they said it wouldn't affect insurance either way. They added that it
> wasn't recognized in all states, just like the Link said.
> I called AOPA and asked what states did and what states didn't and
> wouldn't talk to me about it unless I bought the Legal services plan they
> are selling. and that is where I have stopped.
> I can scan and email my form for anyone to see and review.
> We can only get 100,000. of liability insurance and that isn't near
> enough.
> EAA adds an additional 1 million if your pax is the right age and you are
> a member and get the forms signed.
> Getting a parent or any adult to understand just what they are doing when
> they climb into any-aircraft is a good thing.
> If your state doesn't recognize it than it could be a waste of time,
> drafting one up....but if they do, than it would be a very good thing to
> have.
> In the mean time, the EAA young eagles program is a good way to go too
> and free to us, kinda.
> Don't get me wrong......I don't want to be insurance poor.....I spend
> enough already! but I've been involved in legal action at showed me you
> don't get justice in a courtroom and you can lose everything because of an
> accident. If there is a way to help ourselves, we should look into it.
> Being more aware is a good thing.
> Count me in.
> Bob Martin
> RV-6
> Louisa, VA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> To: SERV<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
>
> Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in
> contact
> with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
>
> http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
>
> I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory
> Agreements/Liability
> Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
> Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
> ourselves.
>
> If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
>
> Cappy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Sorry, Cappy. Must have hit the reply key before second cup of coffee.
Since I fly an alternative engine platform, my liability issues are a bit
different (maybe). So just going to lurk and listen.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Ed is there a message? Maybe my eyes are just old and feeble.
>
> Cappy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ed Anderson
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:48 AM
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>
>
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> > <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> >
> > After I hear back from everyone I plan to approach this as a group
> effort.
> > Apparently from state to state there is some research that he may need
> to
> > do. Thing may be different in each state.
> >
> > Here is what I have received from Phillip Kolczynsk:
> >
> > Steve:
> >
> >
> > My standard fee is $295.00/hr. and I have a two hour minimum. I should
> be
> > able to interview you over the phone, prepare the Release and transmit
> it
> > with an advice cover letter in two hours. Please understand that while
> a
> > Release can be a useful defense tool when signed with voluntary consent
> by
> > a passenger, it is clearly not enforceable against people injured
> outside
> > of your aircraft. Also, appreciate that there is no guarantee that any
> or
> > all judges will enforce a Release of Liability. I prepare a detailed
> > customized release for each aviation client to give you a good chance
> of
> > enforcement.
> >
> >
> > Phil
> > Thanks for your reply. What would your fee be to prepare a release
> for a
> > sale, a release for passengers and the research you discussed?
> > Steve Glasgow-Cappy
> > N123SG RV-8
> > Cappy's Toy
> > 704-362-0005
> > 704-281-7884
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Phillip Kolczynski
> > To: Steve Glasgow
> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: Aviation Liability
> > Steve:
> > I prepare custom Releases for people all over the country but I am
> not
> > licensed in North Carolina, so you would have to have a North Carolina
> > lawyer review it. I could recommend one if you hire me to prepare your
> > Release. I do not know if Carolina courts enforce these releases but I
> > could research that if you retain me. Also, if you hire me I could
> also
> > advise you on how to proceed to minimize your exposure.
> >
> >
> > Phil
> > I enjoyed reading your very informative web site today. Thanks
> for
> > making it available.
> >
> > I am an owner and builder of an RV-8 and am very interested in
> > avoiding liability when I sell my plane and while I am operating it.
> >
> > Do you currently have or can you prepare Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability Releases for use in North Carolina.? I am
> interested
> > in one for passengers and one for sales.
> >
> > Because most aircraft accidents are attributed to engine failure,
> my
> > plan when I sell the plane is to fly it to the purchaser, remove the
> > engine and let the new purchaser re-install the engine.
> >
> > Since I did not build the engine and only installed it I feel this
> > may help in the liability issue. Is my thinking correct?
> >
> > Thanks for any assistance you may provide.
> >
> > Steve Glasgow
> > 3931 Melchor Avenue
> > Charlotte, NC 28211
> > willfly@carolina.rr.com
> > 704-362-0005 H
> > 704-281-7884 C
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: BOB MARTIN
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:33 AM
> > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> >
> >
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN"
> <libertyva@msn.com>
> >
> > Cappy,
> > Thanks for the links.
> > I'm interested for sure!
> > My partnership in our RV-6 broke up over the Liability issue and I've
> > been looking into it already.
> > I've brought up the topic before to the guys and they weren't too
> > interested in looking for a fix.
> > AOPA has a Exculpatory Agreements/Liability Release on their website.
> > I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added
> the
> > EXPERMENTAL warning verbage from the decal in the instrument panel. I
> like
> > it......but haven't used it yet.
> > I contacted my insurance company and asked them about the Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability Release.
> > they said it wouldn't affect insurance either way. They added that it
> > wasn't recognized in all states, just like the Link said.
> > I called AOPA and asked what states did and what states didn't and
> > wouldn't talk to me about it unless I bought the Legal services plan
> they
> > are selling. and that is where I have stopped.
> > I can scan and email my form for anyone to see and review.
> > We can only get 100,000. of liability insurance and that isn't near
> > enough.
> > EAA adds an additional 1 million if your pax is the right age and you
> are
> > a member and get the forms signed.
> > Getting a parent or any adult to understand just what they are doing
> when
> > they climb into any-aircraft is a good thing.
> > If your state doesn't recognize it than it could be a waste of time,
> > drafting one up....but if they do, than it would be a very good thing
> to
> > have.
> > In the mean time, the EAA young eagles program is a good way to go too
> > and free to us, kinda.
> > Don't get me wrong......I don't want to be insurance poor.....I spend
> > enough already! but I've been involved in legal action at showed me you
> > don't get justice in a courtroom and you can lose everything because of
> an
> > accident. If there is a way to help ourselves, we should look into it.
> > Being more aware is a good thing.
> > Count me in.
> > Bob Martin
> > RV-6
> > Louisa, VA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> > To: SERV<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
> > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> >
> >
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> > <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
> >
> > Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in
> > contact
> > with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
> >
> >
> http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
> >
> > I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability
> > Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
> > Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
> > ourselves.
> >
> > If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
> >
> > Cappy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
I will keep you posted. Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Anderson
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Sorry, Cappy. Must have hit the reply key before second cup of coffee.
Since I fly an alternative engine platform, my liability issues are a bit
different (maybe). So just going to lurk and listen.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Ed is there a message? Maybe my eyes are just old and feeble.
>
> Cappy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ed Anderson
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:48 AM
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>
>
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> > <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> >
> > After I hear back from everyone I plan to approach this as a group
> effort.
> > Apparently from state to state there is some research that he may need
> to
> > do. Thing may be different in each state.
> >
> > Here is what I have received from Phillip Kolczynsk:
> >
> > Steve:
> >
> >
> > My standard fee is $295.00/hr. and I have a two hour minimum. I should
> be
> > able to interview you over the phone, prepare the Release and transmit
> it
> > with an advice cover letter in two hours. Please understand that while
> a
> > Release can be a useful defense tool when signed with voluntary consent
> by
> > a passenger, it is clearly not enforceable against people injured
> outside
> > of your aircraft. Also, appreciate that there is no guarantee that any
> or
> > all judges will enforce a Release of Liability. I prepare a detailed
> > customized release for each aviation client to give you a good chance
> of
> > enforcement.
> >
> >
> > Phil
> > Thanks for your reply. What would your fee be to prepare a release
> for a
> > sale, a release for passengers and the research you discussed?
> > Steve Glasgow-Cappy
> > N123SG RV-8
> > Cappy's Toy
> > 704-362-0005
> > 704-281-7884
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Phillip Kolczynski
> > To: Steve Glasgow
> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: Aviation Liability
> > Steve:
> > I prepare custom Releases for people all over the country but I am
> not
> > licensed in North Carolina, so you would have to have a North Carolina
> > lawyer review it. I could recommend one if you hire me to prepare your
> > Release. I do not know if Carolina courts enforce these releases but I
> > could research that if you retain me. Also, if you hire me I could
> also
> > advise you on how to proceed to minimize your exposure.
> >
> >
> > Phil
> > I enjoyed reading your very informative web site today. Thanks
> for
> > making it available.
> >
> > I am an owner and builder of an RV-8 and am very interested in
> > avoiding liability when I sell my plane and while I am operating it.
> >
> > Do you currently have or can you prepare Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability Releases for use in North Carolina.? I am
> interested
> > in one for passengers and one for sales.
> >
> > Because most aircraft accidents are attributed to engine failure,
> my
> > plan when I sell the plane is to fly it to the purchaser, remove the
> > engine and let the new purchaser re-install the engine.
> >
> > Since I did not build the engine and only installed it I feel this
> > may help in the liability issue. Is my thinking correct?
> >
> > Thanks for any assistance you may provide.
> >
> > Steve Glasgow
> > 3931 Melchor Avenue
> > Charlotte, NC 28211
> > willfly@carolina.rr.com
> > 704-362-0005 H
> > 704-281-7884 C
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: BOB MARTIN
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:33 AM
> > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> >
> >
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN"
> <libertyva@msn.com>
> >
> > Cappy,
> > Thanks for the links.
> > I'm interested for sure!
> > My partnership in our RV-6 broke up over the Liability issue and I've
> > been looking into it already.
> > I've brought up the topic before to the guys and they weren't too
> > interested in looking for a fix.
> > AOPA has a Exculpatory Agreements/Liability Release on their website.
> > I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added
> the
> > EXPERMENTAL warning verbage from the decal in the instrument panel. I
> like
> > it......but haven't used it yet.
> > I contacted my insurance company and asked them about the Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability Release.
> > they said it wouldn't affect insurance either way. They added that it
> > wasn't recognized in all states, just like the Link said.
> > I called AOPA and asked what states did and what states didn't and
> > wouldn't talk to me about it unless I bought the Legal services plan
> they
> > are selling. and that is where I have stopped.
> > I can scan and email my form for anyone to see and review.
> > We can only get 100,000. of liability insurance and that isn't near
> > enough.
> > EAA adds an additional 1 million if your pax is the right age and you
> are
> > a member and get the forms signed.
> > Getting a parent or any adult to understand just what they are doing
> when
> > they climb into any-aircraft is a good thing.
> > If your state doesn't recognize it than it could be a waste of time,
> > drafting one up....but if they do, than it would be a very good thing
> to
> > have.
> > In the mean time, the EAA young eagles program is a good way to go too
> > and free to us, kinda.
> > Don't get me wrong......I don't want to be insurance poor.....I spend
> > enough already! but I've been involved in legal action at showed me you
> > don't get justice in a courtroom and you can lose everything because of
> an
> > accident. If there is a way to help ourselves, we should look into it.
> > Being more aware is a good thing.
> > Count me in.
> > Bob Martin
> > RV-6
> > Louisa, VA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> > To: SERV<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
> > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> >
> >
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> > <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
> >
> > Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in
> > contact
> > with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
> >
> >
> http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
> >
> > I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability
> > Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
> > Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
> > ourselves.
> >
> > If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
> >
> > Cappy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ron and Shannon AWAD" <sawad13@msn.com>
Waste of time and money. There is no piece of paper - no matter how much you
paid the lawyer to write it - that will totally protect you from lawsuits
from accidents, or from a accident after you sold the plane.
De registering the plane and even selling it as parts won't hold up very
well either, if you sell the plane. Bottom line is if you built it, then you
built it and if it can be proved then that is all that matters.
If you are worried about lawsuits from passengers, then my advise is to only
take up people you can completely trust such as your wife and children and
close family members only.
If your worried about lawsuits coming after the sale of your plane then the
sad truth is the only way to protect yourself is to see to it that the plane
is completely destroyed and scrapped, and then maybe you can recoupe some of
your investment by selling the engine and avionics by themselves.
There is also the possibility of donating your plane to a museum and use the
tax deduction as your " payment " You would have to make sure the museum de
commisions your bird though and has agreed to never fly it or sell it.
Just my two cents guys, but I think if you dig far enough into this you will
see I am not far off base.
Ron Awad
>From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:48:44 -0500
>
>--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
><eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:55 AM
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>
>
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> > <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> >
> > After I hear back from everyone I plan to approach this as a group
>effort.
> > Apparently from state to state there is some research that he may need
>to
> > do. Thing may be different in each state.
> >
> > Here is what I have received from Phillip Kolczynsk:
> >
> > Steve:
> >
> >
> > My standard fee is $295.00/hr. and I have a two hour minimum. I should
>be
> > able to interview you over the phone, prepare the Release and transmit
>it
> > with an advice cover letter in two hours. Please understand that while a
> > Release can be a useful defense tool when signed with voluntary consent
>by
> > a passenger, it is clearly not enforceable against people injured
>outside
> > of your aircraft. Also, appreciate that there is no guarantee that any
>or
> > all judges will enforce a Release of Liability. I prepare a detailed
> > customized release for each aviation client to give you a good chance of
> > enforcement.
> >
> >
> > Phil
> > Thanks for your reply. What would your fee be to prepare a release for
>a
> > sale, a release for passengers and the research you discussed?
> > Steve Glasgow-Cappy
> > N123SG RV-8
> > Cappy's Toy
> > 704-362-0005
> > 704-281-7884
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Phillip Kolczynski
> > To: Steve Glasgow
> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: Aviation Liability
> > Steve:
> > I prepare custom Releases for people all over the country but I am
>not
> > licensed in North Carolina, so you would have to have a North Carolina
> > lawyer review it. I could recommend one if you hire me to prepare your
> > Release. I do not know if Carolina courts enforce these releases but I
> > could research that if you retain me. Also, if you hire me I could also
> > advise you on how to proceed to minimize your exposure.
> >
> >
> > Phil
> > I enjoyed reading your very informative web site today. Thanks for
> > making it available.
> >
> > I am an owner and builder of an RV-8 and am very interested in
> > avoiding liability when I sell my plane and while I am operating it.
> >
> > Do you currently have or can you prepare Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability Releases for use in North Carolina.? I am
>interested
> > in one for passengers and one for sales.
> >
> > Because most aircraft accidents are attributed to engine failure,
>my
> > plan when I sell the plane is to fly it to the purchaser, remove the
> > engine and let the new purchaser re-install the engine.
> >
> > Since I did not build the engine and only installed it I feel this
> > may help in the liability issue. Is my thinking correct?
> >
> > Thanks for any assistance you may provide.
> >
> > Steve Glasgow
> > 3931 Melchor Avenue
> > Charlotte, NC 28211
> > willfly@carolina.rr.com
> > 704-362-0005 H
> > 704-281-7884 C
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: BOB MARTIN
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:33 AM
> > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> >
> >
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN"
><libertyva@msn.com>
> >
> > Cappy,
> > Thanks for the links.
> > I'm interested for sure!
> > My partnership in our RV-6 broke up over the Liability issue and I've
> > been looking into it already.
> > I've brought up the topic before to the guys and they weren't too
> > interested in looking for a fix.
> > AOPA has a Exculpatory Agreements/Liability Release on their website.
> > I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added the
> > EXPERMENTAL warning verbage from the decal in the instrument panel. I
>like
> > it......but haven't used it yet.
> > I contacted my insurance company and asked them about the Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability Release.
> > they said it wouldn't affect insurance either way. They added that it
> > wasn't recognized in all states, just like the Link said.
> > I called AOPA and asked what states did and what states didn't and
> > wouldn't talk to me about it unless I bought the Legal services plan
>they
> > are selling. and that is where I have stopped.
> > I can scan and email my form for anyone to see and review.
> > We can only get 100,000. of liability insurance and that isn't near
> > enough.
> > EAA adds an additional 1 million if your pax is the right age and you
>are
> > a member and get the forms signed.
> > Getting a parent or any adult to understand just what they are doing
>when
> > they climb into any-aircraft is a good thing.
> > If your state doesn't recognize it than it could be a waste of time,
> > drafting one up....but if they do, than it would be a very good thing to
> > have.
> > In the mean time, the EAA young eagles program is a good way to go too
> > and free to us, kinda.
> > Don't get me wrong......I don't want to be insurance poor.....I spend
> > enough already! but I've been involved in legal action at showed me you
> > don't get justice in a courtroom and you can lose everything because of
>an
> > accident. If there is a way to help ourselves, we should look into it.
> > Being more aware is a good thing.
> > Count me in.
> > Bob Martin
> > RV-6
> > Louisa, VA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> > To: SERV<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
> > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> >
> >
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> > <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
> >
> > Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in
> > contact
> > with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
> >
> >
>http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
> >
> > I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability
> > Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
> > Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
> > ourselves.
> >
> > If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
> >
> > Cappy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 15
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Your entitled to your opinion.
Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron and Shannon AWAD
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ron and Shannon AWAD" <sawad13@msn.com>
Waste of time and money. There is no piece of paper - no matter how much you
paid the lawyer to write it - that will totally protect you from lawsuits
from accidents, or from a accident after you sold the plane.
De registering the plane and even selling it as parts won't hold up very
well either, if you sell the plane. Bottom line is if you built it, then you
built it and if it can be proved then that is all that matters.
If you are worried about lawsuits from passengers, then my advise is to only
take up people you can completely trust such as your wife and children and
close family members only.
If your worried about lawsuits coming after the sale of your plane then the
sad truth is the only way to protect yourself is to see to it that the plane
is completely destroyed and scrapped, and then maybe you can recoupe some of
your investment by selling the engine and avionics by themselves.
There is also the possibility of donating your plane to a museum and use the
tax deduction as your " payment " You would have to make sure the museum de
commisions your bird though and has agreed to never fly it or sell it.
Just my two cents guys, but I think if you dig far enough into this you will
see I am not far off base.
Ron Awad
>From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:48:44 -0500
>
>--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
><eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:55 AM
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
>
>
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> > <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> >
> > After I hear back from everyone I plan to approach this as a group
>effort.
> > Apparently from state to state there is some research that he may need
>to
> > do. Thing may be different in each state.
> >
> > Here is what I have received from Phillip Kolczynsk:
> >
> > Steve:
> >
> >
> > My standard fee is $295.00/hr. and I have a two hour minimum. I should
>be
> > able to interview you over the phone, prepare the Release and transmit
>it
> > with an advice cover letter in two hours. Please understand that while a
> > Release can be a useful defense tool when signed with voluntary consent
>by
> > a passenger, it is clearly not enforceable against people injured
>outside
> > of your aircraft. Also, appreciate that there is no guarantee that any
>or
> > all judges will enforce a Release of Liability. I prepare a detailed
> > customized release for each aviation client to give you a good chance of
> > enforcement.
> >
> >
> > Phil
> > Thanks for your reply. What would your fee be to prepare a release for
>a
> > sale, a release for passengers and the research you discussed?
> > Steve Glasgow-Cappy
> > N123SG RV-8
> > Cappy's Toy
> > 704-362-0005
> > 704-281-7884
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Phillip Kolczynski
> > To: Steve Glasgow
> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: Aviation Liability
> > Steve:
> > I prepare custom Releases for people all over the country but I am
>not
> > licensed in North Carolina, so you would have to have a North Carolina
> > lawyer review it. I could recommend one if you hire me to prepare your
> > Release. I do not know if Carolina courts enforce these releases but I
> > could research that if you retain me. Also, if you hire me I could also
> > advise you on how to proceed to minimize your exposure.
> >
> >
> > Phil
> > I enjoyed reading your very informative web site today. Thanks for
> > making it available.
> >
> > I am an owner and builder of an RV-8 and am very interested in
> > avoiding liability when I sell my plane and while I am operating it.
> >
> > Do you currently have or can you prepare Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability Releases for use in North Carolina.? I am
>interested
> > in one for passengers and one for sales.
> >
> > Because most aircraft accidents are attributed to engine failure,
>my
> > plan when I sell the plane is to fly it to the purchaser, remove the
> > engine and let the new purchaser re-install the engine.
> >
> > Since I did not build the engine and only installed it I feel this
> > may help in the liability issue. Is my thinking correct?
> >
> > Thanks for any assistance you may provide.
> >
> > Steve Glasgow
> > 3931 Melchor Avenue
> > Charlotte, NC 28211
> > willfly@carolina.rr.com
> > 704-362-0005 H
> > 704-281-7884 C
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: BOB MARTIN
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:33 AM
> > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> >
> >
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB MARTIN"
><libertyva@msn.com>
> >
> > Cappy,
> > Thanks for the links.
> > I'm interested for sure!
> > My partnership in our RV-6 broke up over the Liability issue and I've
> > been looking into it already.
> > I've brought up the topic before to the guys and they weren't too
> > interested in looking for a fix.
> > AOPA has a Exculpatory Agreements/Liability Release on their website.
> > I copied it and modified it to be specific to my airplane and added the
> > EXPERMENTAL warning verbage from the decal in the instrument panel. I
>like
> > it......but haven't used it yet.
> > I contacted my insurance company and asked them about the Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability Release.
> > they said it wouldn't affect insurance either way. They added that it
> > wasn't recognized in all states, just like the Link said.
> > I called AOPA and asked what states did and what states didn't and
> > wouldn't talk to me about it unless I bought the Legal services plan
>they
> > are selling. and that is where I have stopped.
> > I can scan and email my form for anyone to see and review.
> > We can only get 100,000. of liability insurance and that isn't near
> > enough.
> > EAA adds an additional 1 million if your pax is the right age and you
>are
> > a member and get the forms signed.
> > Getting a parent or any adult to understand just what they are doing
>when
> > they climb into any-aircraft is a good thing.
> > If your state doesn't recognize it than it could be a waste of time,
> > drafting one up....but if they do, than it would be a very good thing to
> > have.
> > In the mean time, the EAA young eagles program is a good way to go too
> > and free to us, kinda.
> > Don't get me wrong......I don't want to be insurance poor.....I spend
> > enough already! but I've been involved in legal action at showed me you
> > don't get justice in a courtroom and you can lose everything because of
>an
> > accident. If there is a way to help ourselves, we should look into it.
> > Being more aware is a good thing.
> > Count me in.
> > Bob Martin
> > RV-6
> > Louisa, VA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Steve Glasgow<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>
> > To: SERV<mailto:rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:59 AM
> > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Liablilty
> >
> >
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
> > <willfly@carolina.rr.com<mailto:willfly@carolina.rr.com>>
> >
> > Is anyone interested in finding ways to limit liability? I am in
> > contact
> > with the attorney who maintains this web site I sent you previously:
> >
> >
>http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html<http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html>
> >
> > I believe for about $1,000 we could get Exculpatory
> > Agreements/Liability
> > Releases for sale and passenger use prepared for NC, SC, and VA.
> > Additionally, he would provide information on other way to protect
> > ourselves.
> >
> > If anyone is interested please contact me off site.
> >
> > Cappy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 16
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| Subject: | first P-MAG "save" |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Radomir Zaric" <vitez@carolina.rr.com>
Interesting reading:
http://www.emagair.com/Ugolini.htm
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