Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:39 AM - Re: Tow Bar (Dale Ensing)
2. 07:40 AM - Re: Tow Bar-Prop (BOB martin)
3. 08:33 AM - Re: Tow Bar-Prop (Dale Ensing)
4. 12:31 PM - Re: -Prop (BOB martin)
5. 01:23 PM - Re: -Prop (sportav8r@aol.com)
6. 03:24 PM - Re: Tow Bar (tadsargent)
7. 03:54 PM - Re: -Prop (Dale Ensing)
8. 04:31 PM - Re: -Prop-hot starts (BOB martin)
9. 05:18 PM - Re: -Prop-hot starts (Bill Repucci)
10. 05:56 PM - Re: Tow Bar (sportav8r@aol.com)
11. 06:07 PM - Re: Tow Bar (sportav8r@aol.com)
12. 07:21 PM - Re: Tow Bar (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
13. 08:15 PM - Re: Tow Bar (tadsargent)
Message 1
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
"No, but the blades should be able to handle about 200# of thrust each,
minimum, whether by hands or by air loads."
I agree with you Stormy but Hartzell C/S props come with a warning on the
their props and in the manual about not using the blades to move the
airplane by hand.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Tow Bar-Prop |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB martin" <libertyva@msn.com>
When questioned about this very warning and explaination at Oshkosh, the
Hartzel Rep confessed it was a "safety" issue.
We are talking about pushing and pulling at the root.......not rotating,
that is another story.
Bob
>From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar
>Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 09:40:11 -0400
>
>--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
><densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
>"No, but the blades should be able to handle about 200# of thrust each,
>minimum, whether by hands or by air loads."
>
>I agree with you Stormy but Hartzell C/S props come with a warning on the
>their props and in the manual about not using the blades to move the
>airplane by hand.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tow Bar-Prop |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Hartzel Rep confessed it was a "safety" issue.
We are talking about pushing and pulling at the root.......not rotating,
that is another story.
Bob
Bob,
Sorry, do not understand your response. I assumed it was a safety
issue...damage with possible eventual failure. What was the Hartzell rep.
inferring? That the prop could not really be damaged by pushing and pulling
at the root?
Also, please explain your rotating comment. Are you not to hand prop an
engine with a Hartzell C/S prop?
Thanks,
Dale Ensing
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: thEast-List:-Prop |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB martin" <libertyva@msn.com>
Dale and others
The Hartzel rep infered in a conversation about C/S props and pushing and
pulling planes that pushing and pulling from the root of the prop didn't
hurt the prop.
but could be a safety issue.....
now I don't want to speak for the rep, but reading between the lines here.
if a unknowledgeable person somehow turned the prop while pushing or pulling
and the engine was hot or the mags on........then we all know what could
happen.
Hartzel didn't want to condone that!!!!
and I think you can see why.
and brings us to the rotating issue....if you rotate a "hot" engine, like
just taxied in and shut down....it could fire off the engine enough to hurt
you. or if you rotate any engine hot or cold with the mags hot.......it
could start and really hurt you.
I have to agree with Stormys first accessment that the prop is a very strong
part and you can't hurt it by pulling or pushing a RV type airplane around
by the root.
I wouldn't hand prop my 0-360 c/s set-up.....not sure I'd hand prop a 0-320
c/s either,
but not sure if it "can" be done or not. Seems you could!
I was taught to only hand prop smaller engines like the C-65, 85 or 0-200
My buddy has a Long-ez with an o-320 and wood prop....he only hand
props....no electric starter, but it is a pusher type plane so it goes away
from you. But I still cringe when I watch him do it!
Hope this helps
Bob Martin
>From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar-Prop
>Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 11:34:20 -0400
>
>--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
><densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
>Hartzel Rep confessed it was a "safety" issue.
>We are talking about pushing and pulling at the root.......not rotating,
>that is another story.
>Bob
>
>Bob,
>Sorry, do not understand your response. I assumed it was a safety
>issue...damage with possible eventual failure. What was the Hartzell rep.
>inferring? That the prop could not really be damaged by pushing and pulling
>at the root?
>Also, please explain your rotating comment. Are you not to hand prop an
>engine with a Hartzell C/S prop?
>Thanks,
>Dale Ensing
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: thEast-List:-Prop |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Many's the time I've hand propped Bob Barrows' C/S O-360 Bearhawk. He has no electrical
system in his planes, so every time he drops in to visit, somebody's
going to be pulling on a prop!
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: BOB martin <libertyva@msn.com>
Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 19:30:33 +0000
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List:-Prop
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB martin" <libertyva@msn.com>
Dale and others
The Hartzel rep infered in a conversation about C/S props and pushing and
pulling planes that pushing and pulling from the root of the prop didn't
hurt the prop.
but could be a safety issue.....
now I don't want to speak for the rep, but reading between the lines here.
if a unknowledgeable person somehow turned the prop while pushing or pulling
and the engine was hot or the mags on........then we all know what could
happen.
Hartzel didn't want to condone that!!!!
and I think you can see why.
and brings us to the rotating issue....if you rotate a "hot" engine, like
just taxied in and shut down....it could fire off the engine enough to hurt
you. or if you rotate any engine hot or cold with the mags hot.......it
could start and really hurt you.
I have to agree with Stormys first accessment that the prop is a very strong
part and you can't hurt it by pulling or pushing a RV type airplane around
by the root.
I wouldn't hand prop my 0-360 c/s set-up.....not sure I'd hand prop a 0-320
c/s either,
but not sure if it "can" be done or not. Seems you could!
I was taught to only hand prop smaller engines like the C-65, 85 or 0-200
My buddy has a Long-ez with an o-320 and wood prop....he only hand
props....no electric starter, but it is a pusher type plane so it goes away
from you. But I still cringe when I watch him do it!
Hope this helps
Bob Martin
>From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar-Prop
>Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 11:34:20 -0400
>
>--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
><densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
>Hartzel Rep confessed it was a "safety" issue.
>We are talking about pushing and pulling at the root.......not rotating,
>that is another story.
>Bob
>
>Bob,
>Sorry, do not understand your response. I assumed it was a safety
>issue...damage with possible eventual failure. What was the Hartzell rep.
>inferring? That the prop could not really be damaged by pushing and pulling
>at the root?
>Also, please explain your rotating comment. Are you not to hand prop an
>engine with a Hartzell C/S prop?
>Thanks,
>Dale Ensing
>
>
Message 6
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "tadsargent" <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
Are we talking about moving a twin Bonanza or PiperLance by the prop or a
1350# RV by the prop.
Just a thought.
TS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
<densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
> "No, but the blades should be able to handle about 200# of thrust each,
> minimum, whether by hands or by air loads."
>
> I agree with you Stormy but Hartzell C/S props come with a warning on the
> their props and in the manual about not using the blades to move the
> airplane by hand.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: thEast-List:-Prop |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Thanks Bob. Yes, understand the "safety" danger of an unintentional engine
start. I do move the prop to horizontal position to attach the tow bar. So
that applies to me even if not using prop to move the airplane.
Dale
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: thEast-List:-Prop-hot starts |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB martin" <libertyva@msn.com>
Dale,
Speaking of moving the prop.
A fellow homebuilder that has a KIS, fiberglass tri gear plane with a 0-235
and fixed pitch prop.
was doing just that, putting it away with a towbar and moved the prop just a
little and it popped and knocked him down and hurt his arm enough that he
went to the doctor about it. Luckly, only a sprain but it drove home about
a prop turning from an hot cylinder going off....
Be very careful with a HOT engine!!!
Bob
>From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List:-Prop
>Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 18:55:24 -0400
>
>--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
><densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
>Thanks Bob. Yes, understand the "safety" danger of an unintentional engine
>start. I do move the prop to horizontal position to attach the tow bar. So
>that applies to me even if not using prop to move the airplane.
>Dale
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | thEast-List:-Prop-hot starts |
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
For those of you with mag's. Remember, they are designed to keep firing
if the ground wire breaks. If this happens in flight, you probably
won't catch it until you start up again and do a mag check.
This also leaves the mag "hot" and turning the prop may cause the
cylinder to fire, ruining your entire day, if not more.
When starting my 65 T-Craft with no one to hold the brakes, I would prop
it from behind. Not something that can easily be done with an 320 or
360.
As another thought, if you have an electronic ignition and a dead
battery, you will not be able to hand prop it because you won't have
electricity to fire the ignition system or excite the alternator.
Bill
PS. I'm just happy I'm not hand cranking my friends Stearman in the
heat of the summer any longer. Those inertia starters can really work
up a sweat.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BOB
martin
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List:-Prop-hot starts
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "BOB martin" <libertyva@msn.com>
Dale,
Speaking of moving the prop.
A fellow homebuilder that has a KIS, fiberglass tri gear plane with a
0-235
and fixed pitch prop.
was doing just that, putting it away with a towbar and moved the prop
just a
little and it popped and knocked him down and hurt his arm enough that
he
went to the doctor about it. Luckly, only a sprain but it drove home
about
a prop turning from an hot cylinder going off....
Be very careful with a HOT engine!!!
Bob
>From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List:-Prop
>Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 18:55:24 -0400
>
>--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
><densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
>Thanks Bob. Yes, understand the "safety" danger of an unintentional
>engine start. I do move the prop to horizontal position to attach the
>tow bar. So that applies to me even if not using prop to move the
>airplane. Dale
>
>
Message 10
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Tad, if your RV weighs 1350# without you in it, you've
-----Original Message-----
From: tadsargent <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 18:29:28 -0400
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "tadsargent" <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
Are we talking about moving a twin Bonanza or PiperLance by the prop or a
1350# RV by the prop.
Just a thought.
TS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
<densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
> "No, but the blades should be able to handle about 200# of thrust each,
> minimum, whether by hands or by air loads."
>
> I agree with you Stormy but Hartzell C/S props come with a warning on the
> their props and in the manual about not using the blades to move the
> airplane by hand.
>
>
Message 11
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
...you've got lots of secret goodies stuffed in there that we don't know about,
or you've got yourself an RV-10 ;-)
danged scratch pad laptop thingie trips me up everytime with the premature "send."
Everybody be careful with moving a prop- always backwards and carefully, to avoid
a false start.
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: sportav8r@aol.com
Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 20:55:47 -0400
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Tad, if your RV weighs 1350# without you in it, you've
-----Original Message-----
From: tadsargent <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 18:29:28 -0400
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "tadsargent" <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
Are we talking about moving a twin Bonanza or PiperLance by the prop or a
1350# RV by the prop.
Just a thought.
TS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
<densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
> "No, but the blades should be able to handle about 200# of thrust each,
> minimum, whether by hands or by air loads."
>
> I agree with you Stormy but Hartzell C/S props come with a warning on the
> their props and in the manual about not using the blades to move the
> airplane by hand.
>
>
Message 12
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 05/31/2006 8:08:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
sportav8r@aol.com writes:
...you've got lots of secret goodies stuffed in there that we don't know
about, or you've got yourself an RV-10 ;-)
>>>
shoot, stormy- my -6A loaded with gas and a 12-pack in the cooler weighs at
LEAST that much with my fat axe init- good newz is that every 20 min. or so, it
gets a bit lighter, thanks to that built-in relief toob! 8-)
Possum
do NOT archive
Message 13
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--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "tadsargent" <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
Well If I did the math correctly my 7A empty is 1098 and 42 gallons of avgas
are 252#. Each time I do the calculations I get 1350. I haven't taken new
math yet.
TS
----- Original Message -----
From: <sportav8r@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> Tad, if your RV weighs 1350# without you in it, you've
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tadsargent <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 18:29:28 -0400
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar
>
>
> --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "tadsargent"
<tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
>
> Are we talking about moving a twin Bonanza or PiperLance by the prop or a
> 1350# RV by the prop.
> Just a thought.
> TS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:40 AM
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Tow Bar
>
>
> > --> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing"
> <densing@carolina.rr.com>
> >
> > "No, but the blades should be able to handle about 200# of thrust each,
> > minimum, whether by hands or by air loads."
> >
> > I agree with you Stormy but Hartzell C/S props come with a warning on
the
> > their props and in the manual about not using the blades to move the
> > airplane by hand.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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