---------------------------------------------------------- RVSouthEast-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/06/06: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:19 PM - IFR panels (David Lee) 2. 02:07 PM - Re: IFR panels (Rad Z) 3. 02:45 PM - Re: IFR panels (David Lee) 4. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: IFR panels (Bill Repucci) 5. 06:35 PM - Glare Shield covering (Bill Repucci) 6. 06:51 PM - Re: Glare Shield covering (Bret Smith) 7. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: IFR panels (Larry Bowen) 8. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: IFR panels (bburril) 9. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: IFR panels () 10. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: IFR panels (bburril) 11. 07:45 PM - Re: IFR panels (David Lee) 12. 08:09 PM - Re: Glare Shield covering (Bill Repucci) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:19 PM PST US Subject: RVSouthEast-List: IFR panels From: "David Lee" What do people use for an IFR panel, mostly glass with some electric back-up instruments. Under consideration are the new ACS 3500 or dual Dynon large screens. What would you have with them for IFR? I am avoiding vac instruments and trying to avoid an IFR gps (Garmin 430). Costs and weight are a factor. This be on a RV 7 under construction. Additional ideas are welcome. All of my previous flying has been with "old fashioned" instruments plus an ifr gps (430 or -89B). Suggestions and opinions please. Thanks, David Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79632#79632 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:27 PM PST US From: Rad Z Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: IFR panels David, I wouldn't overlook a 2-screen GRT system. Feature-wise, it seems to be ahead of Dynon or AFS. Yes, it's lacking (relatively speaking) in the looks department, but it makes up for it with features that neither of the other two have (granted, details on what AFS is capable of are still pretty sketchy). Backup -- a typical trio (ASI, electric AI and altimeter) would probably work out ok. Additional point -- while I'm no authority on the subject, it's hard to picture an IFR bird today w/o an IFR/approach approved GPS. Just MHO. Radomir -7A Panel ----- Original Message ---- From: David Lee Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 4:19:04 PM Subject: RVSouthEast-List: IFR panels What do people use for an IFR panel, mostly glass with some electric back-up instruments. Under consideration are the new ACS 3500 or dual Dynon large screens. What would you have with them for IFR? I am avoiding vac instruments and trying to avoid an IFR gps (Garmin 430). Costs and weight are a factor. This be on a RV 7 under construction. Additional ideas are welcome. All of my previous flying has been with "old fashioned" instruments plus an ifr gps (430 or -89B). Suggestions and opinions please. Thanks, David Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79632#79632 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:21 PM PST US Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels From: "David Lee" Bill & Radomir, I've been spending an inordinate amount of time looking.! I am planning the back-up instruments pretty much as outlined by Radomir, but having trouble determining whether to put in an IFR gps in. I flew a lot of IFR in the Baron and Bonanza with and without an IFR approved gps.(Used a Garmin Pilot III). It's no problem enroute. I had dual glideslopes, RMI, NDB, etc. I only shot 4-6 actual gps approaches(they are easy), rest ILS. Seems as if a 496 is great value. I am basically cheap and also trying to determine how much IFR will actually be flown in the RV. Totally different profile than my earlier aircraft. Wonder how many of the "older" military and airline flyers equip their planes? Thanks for the response. I hope to see your projects soon. David Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79653#79653 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:48 PM PST US From: "Bill Repucci" Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels David, I am a simple VFR type (My last plane, 1941 BC-12/65, did not even have an electrical system.) and when I talk to RV builder/owners who have equipped their planes with IFR panels I am always surprised to find that they rarely use it. To the point where many of them have told me that next time they will leave it VFR only. Maybe some of the others on the list can add there $.02 worth. Having said that, I am reserving the right to upgrade my panel in the future, if I ever get the IFR bug. As for the Garmin 496, I installed an AirGizmo (http://www.airgizmos.com/) in my panel with the angle adapter so it will be slanted towards me. Great device and it has let me build up my panel without actually owning a GPS. In January I hope the price comes down a notch so I can purchase a 496. Pictures are at the bottom of this page: http://www.repucci.com/bill/instruments.html Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Lee Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 5:45 PM Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels --> Bill & Radomir, I've been spending an inordinate amount of time looking.! I am planning the back-up instruments pretty much as outlined by Radomir, but having trouble determining whether to put in an IFR gps in. I flew a lot of IFR in the Baron and Bonanza with and without an IFR approved gps.(Used a Garmin Pilot III). It's no problem enroute. I had dual glideslopes, RMI, NDB, etc. I only shot 4-6 actual gps approaches(they are easy), rest ILS. Seems as if a 496 is great value. I am basically cheap and also trying to determine how much IFR will actually be flown in the RV. Totally different profile than my earlier aircraft. Wonder how many of the "older" military and airline flyers equip their planes? Thanks for the response. I hope to see your projects soon. David Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79653#79653 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:48 PM PST US From: "Bill Repucci" Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Glare Shield covering On the VAF some guy posted a picture of his glare shield. What made it unique was that he used stripes of black Velcro loops to cover it, giving him a place to stick pencils, GPS, and anything else he could think of. Thinking this was a great idea, I was able to locate some that was wide enough to cover the entire glare shield of my RV-9 with one piece. The only problem was that I had to buy an minimum size of 60" by five yards. Yep, I'll have a little bit more than I can use. If anyone of you would like to cover your glare shield with a loop section of Velcro, let me know, I'm sure we can work a deal. I'm asking $20 for an RV-8 sized piece, $25 for the -6, 7, & 9 and $30 for an RV-10. I realize that in keeping with RV-10 pricing, I should really charge something like $150 but I will keep it reasonable. The loop fabric I have ordered does not have adhesive on it but I have had good luck with proseal and my favorite, Goop Automotive Trim Adhesive. Send me an e-mail (bill@repucci.com) off list, if you are interested. Bill PS. Sorry, about the ad on the list. I'm just trying to recover my costs and help out other builders. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:17 PM PST US From: "Bret Smith" Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Glare Shield covering Bill, why not cover your seats with it and you won't need seatbelts? Heck, look at the weight savings too. Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Repucci Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:26 PM Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Glare Shield covering On the VAF some guy posted a picture of his glare shield. What made it unique was that he used stripes of black Velcro loops to cover it, giving him a place to stick pencils, GPS, and anything else he could think of. Thinking this was a great idea, I was able to locate some that was wide enough to cover the entire glare shield of my RV-9 with one piece. The only problem was that I had to buy an minimum size of 60" by five yards. Yep, I'll have a little bit more than I can use. If anyone of you would like to cover your glare shield with a loop section of Velcro, let me know, I'm sure we can work a deal. I'm asking $20 for an RV-8 sized piece, $25 for the -6, 7, & 9 and $30 for an RV-10. I realize that in keeping with RV-10 pricing, I should really charge something like $150 but I will keep it reasonable. The loop fabric I have ordered does not have adhesive on it but I have had good luck with proseal and my favorite, Goop Automotive Trim Adhesive. Send me an e-mail (bill@repucci.com) off list, if you are interested. Bill PS. Sorry, about the ad on the list. I'm just trying to recover my costs and help out other builders. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:02 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels For me, the perspective really changed when I move from building a panel to flying behind it. I have backups in my RV-8 that I will not bother to have in the 7 -- as the panel page on a Garmin x96 is good enough. And, the 'glass' the x96 is backing up is super reliable & many have internal battery backups. Maybe the answer is keep it simple, but plan for expansion and flexibility. Mostly VFR thoughts, but maybe some of it applies to your question... - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Repucci [mailto:bill@repucci.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:26 PM > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels > > --> > > David, > > I am a simple VFR type (My last plane, 1941 BC-12/65, did not > even have an electrical system.) and when I talk to RV > builder/owners who have equipped their planes with IFR panels > I am always surprised to find that they rarely use it. To > the point where many of them have told me that next time they > will leave it VFR only. > > Maybe some of the others on the list can add there $.02 worth. > > Having said that, I am reserving the right to upgrade my > panel in the future, if I ever get the IFR bug. > > As for the Garmin 496, I installed an AirGizmo > (http://www.airgizmos.com/) in my panel with the angle > adapter so it will be slanted towards me. Great device and > it has let me build up my panel without actually owning a > GPS. In January I hope the price comes down a notch so I can > purchase a 496. Pictures are at the bottom of this page: > http://www.repucci.com/bill/instruments.html > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of David Lee > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 5:45 PM > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels > > > --> > > Bill & Radomir, > > I've been spending an inordinate amount of time looking.! I > am planning the back-up instruments pretty much as outlined > by Radomir, but having trouble determining whether to put in > an IFR gps in. I flew a lot of IFR in the Baron and Bonanza > with and without an IFR approved gps.(Used a Garmin Pilot > III). It's no problem enroute. I had dual glideslopes, RMI, > NDB, etc. I only shot 4-6 actual gps approaches(they are > easy), rest ILS. Seems as if a 496 is great value. > > I am basically cheap and also trying to determine how much > IFR will actually be flown in the RV. Totally different > profile than my earlier aircraft. Wonder how many of the > "older" military and airline flyers equip their planes? > > Thanks for the response. I hope to see your projects soon. > > David > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79653#79653 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Photoshare, and much much more: > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:40 PM PST US From: "bburril" Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels Bill just get a 396 it does everything that a 496 does just not as fast,and for a lot less. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Repucci" Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:26 PM Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels > > David, > > I am a simple VFR type (My last plane, 1941 BC-12/65, did not even have > an electrical system.) and when I talk to RV builder/owners who have > equipped their planes with IFR panels I am always surprised to find that > they rarely use it. To the point where many of them have told me that > next time they will leave it VFR only. > > Maybe some of the others on the list can add there $.02 worth. > > Having said that, I am reserving the right to upgrade my panel in the > future, if I ever get the IFR bug. > > As for the Garmin 496, I installed an AirGizmo > (http://www.airgizmos.com/) in my panel with the angle adapter so it > will be slanted towards me. Great device and it has let me build up my > panel without actually owning a GPS. In January I hope the price comes > down a notch so I can purchase a 496. Pictures are at the bottom of > this page: http://www.repucci.com/bill/instruments.html > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David > Lee > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 5:45 PM > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels > > > --> > > Bill & Radomir, > > I've been spending an inordinate amount of time looking.! I am planning > the back-up instruments pretty much as outlined by Radomir, but having > trouble determining whether to put in an IFR gps in. I flew a lot of IFR > in the Baron and Bonanza with and without an IFR approved gps.(Used a > Garmin Pilot III). It's no problem enroute. I had dual glideslopes, RMI, > NDB, etc. I only shot 4-6 actual gps approaches(they are easy), rest > ILS. Seems as if a 496 is great value. > > I am basically cheap and also trying to determine how much IFR will > actually be flown in the RV. Totally different profile than my earlier > aircraft. Wonder how many of the "older" military and airline flyers > equip their planes? > > Thanks for the response. I hope to see your projects soon. > > David > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79653#79653 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:29 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels David, I about fell over when you mentioned the "older military and airline flyers". Are you talking to me? I have dual screen GRT EFIS with internal GPS and a Garmin 296, Trio aiutopilot with altitude hold, SL-30 nav/com, 327 transponder and PSE audio panel with marker beacon. I have an altimeter and airspeed indicator for backup instruments. I probably won't have too many occasions to fly IFR in the RV-8, but if there is no chance of thunderstorms or iceing, why not. The GPS is great for enroute nav (I like the 296 much more than the GRT internal) and I can use the SL-30 for ILS or VOR approaches. An autopilot is a "must have" for IFR in the RV IMHO and also serves as a backup turn and bank indicator, so I don't feel the need to have a backup attitude indicator. And I certainly won't put anything in my panel that has a mecanical (electric or vacuum) gyro that will get abused every time I do acro. Ron Schreck RV-8 "Miss Izzy" Gold Hill Airpark, NC > > From: "David Lee" > Date: 2006/12/06 Wed PM 05:44:56 EST > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels > > > Bill & Radomir, > > I've been spending an inordinate amount of time looking.! I am planning the back-up instruments pretty much as outlined by Radomir, but having trouble determining whether to put in an IFR gps in. I flew a lot of IFR in the Baron and Bonanza with and without an IFR approved gps.(Used a Garmin Pilot III). It's no problem enroute. I had dual glideslopes, RMI, NDB, etc. I only shot 4-6 actual gps approaches(they are easy), rest ILS. Seems as if a 496 is great value. > > I am basically cheap and also trying to determine how much IFR will actually be flown in the RV. Totally different profile than my earlier aircraft. Wonder how many of the "older" military and airline flyers equip their planes? > > Thanks for the response. I hope to see your projects soon. > > David > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79653#79653 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:35 PM PST US From: "bburril" Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels He said older not ancient! ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 10:14 PM Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels > > David, > > I about fell over when you mentioned the "older military and airline > flyers". Are you talking to me? > I have dual screen GRT EFIS with internal GPS and a Garmin 296, Trio > aiutopilot with altitude hold, SL-30 nav/com, 327 transponder and PSE > audio panel with marker beacon. I have an altimeter and airspeed > indicator for backup instruments. I probably won't have too many > occasions to fly IFR in the RV-8, but if there is no chance of > thunderstorms or iceing, why not. The GPS is great for enroute nav (I > like the 296 much more than the GRT internal) and I can use the SL-30 for > ILS or VOR approaches. An autopilot is a "must have" for IFR in the RV > IMHO and also serves as a backup turn and bank indicator, so I don't feel > the need to have a backup attitude indicator. And I certainly won't put > anything in my panel that has a mecanical (electric or vacuum) gyro that > will get abused every time I do acro. > > Ron Schreck > RV-8 "Miss Izzy" > Gold Hill Airpark, NC > > >> >> From: "David Lee" >> Date: 2006/12/06 Wed PM 05:44:56 EST >> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels >> >> >> Bill & Radomir, >> >> I've been spending an inordinate amount of time looking.! I am planning >> the back-up instruments pretty much as outlined by Radomir, but having >> trouble determining whether to put in an IFR gps in. I flew a lot of IFR >> in the Baron and Bonanza with and without an IFR approved gps.(Used a >> Garmin Pilot III). It's no problem enroute. I had dual glideslopes, RMI, >> NDB, etc. I only shot 4-6 actual gps approaches(they are easy), rest ILS. >> Seems as if a 496 is great value. >> >> I am basically cheap and also trying to determine how much IFR will >> actually be flown in the RV. Totally different profile than my earlier >> aircraft. Wonder how many of the "older" military and airline flyers >> equip their planes? >> >> Thanks for the response. I hope to see your projects soon. >> >> David >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79653#79653 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:24 PM PST US Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Re: IFR panels From: "David Lee" Thanks guys, Ron, I did not mention any names!! As for the rest the opinions are varied as I suspected they might be. If you don't fly IFR you don't need to spend all the money and time. The planes are fast, responsive, light, economical, etc...all the reason I'm building. I am just use to going when the weather is not cavu, although I may change my mind after flying the RV a bit (whenever that is going to be). Still pondering. David Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79722#79722 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:58 PM PST US From: "Bill Repucci" Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Glare Shield covering Good idea! I have also suggested this to a friend for his two year-old. I figure he can put it on his kid's diaper and the 2. That way the kid can't make a run for it when his wife is shopping. ;) Heck, you could also use the stuff to hang the kid on the wall why working on your plane. It would keep him out of trouble and at eye level so he could learn as you rivet. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:51 PM Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Glare Shield covering Bill, why not cover your seats with it and you won't need seatbelts? Heck, look at the weight savings too. Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Repucci Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:26 PM Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Glare Shield covering On the VAF some guy posted a picture of his glare shield. What made it unique was that he used stripes of black Velcro loops to cover it, giving him a place to stick pencils, GPS, and anything else he could think of. Thinking this was a great idea, I was able to locate some that was wide enough to cover the entire glare shield of my RV-9 with one piece. The only problem was that I had to buy an minimum size of 60" by five yards. Yep, I'll have a little bit more than I can use. If anyone of you would like to cover your glare shield with a loop section of Velcro, let me know, I'm sure we can work a deal. I'm asking $20 for an RV-8 sized piece, $25 for the -6, 7, & 9 and $30 for an RV-10. I realize that in keeping with RV-10 pricing, I should really charge something like $150 but I will keep it reasonable. The loop fabric I have ordered does not have adhesive on it but I have had good luck with proseal and my favorite, Goop Automotive Trim Adhesive. Send me an e-mail (bill@repucci.com) off list, if you are interested. Bill PS. Sorry, about the ad on the list. I'm just trying to recover my costs and help out other builders. href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RVSouthEast-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rvsoutheast-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rvsoutheast-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.