Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
2. 05:18 AM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (James Clark)
3. 05:26 AM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Radomir Zaric)
4. 05:30 AM - Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Bill Repucci)
5. 05:31 AM - Re: East Coast to Yellowstone! (Bill Settle)
6. 05:35 AM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Bill Settle)
7. 05:39 AM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Paul D. Franzon)
8. 05:50 AM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (James Clark)
9. 06:10 AM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (bill crothers)
10. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
11. 06:25 AM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Bill Repucci)
12. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Bill Boyd)
13. 06:34 AM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Larry Bowen)
14. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (James Clark)
15. 06:36 AM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Radomir Zaric)
16. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ed Anderson)
17. 07:15 AM - Traveling Salesman Problem was : NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ed Anderson)
18. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
19. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (James Clark)
20. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
21. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
22. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (James Clark)
23. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Larry Bowen)
24. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Dwight Frye)
25. 08:02 AM - NC Airports ---Virginia (BOB martin)
26. 08:05 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Larry Bowen)
27. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Radomir Zaric)
28. 08:10 AM - Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Rafael)
29. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
30. 08:19 AM - Re: NC Airports ---Virginia (Ron Schreck)
31. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
32. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
33. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Ron Schreck)
34. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (James Clark)
35. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos ()
36. 08:58 AM - Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Bill Repucci)
37. 09:15 AM - Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Rafael)
38. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
39. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Ron Schreck)
40. 10:15 AM - For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th (Bill Repucci)
41. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Rafael)
42. 11:21 AM - Re: For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th (Bill Boyd)
43. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Bill Boyd)
44. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Ron Schreck)
45. 01:49 PM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Charlie England)
46. 02:26 PM - Re: For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th (Bill Repucci)
47. 03:15 PM - Re: For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th (Bill Boyd)
48. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Bill Boyd)
49. 04:47 PM - Helping Hand was : For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th (Ed Anderson)
50. 05:41 PM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (bill crothers)
51. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos ()
52. 05:48 PM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (bill crothers)
53. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (bill crothers)
54. 06:39 PM - Re: For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th (Bret Smith)
55. 06:58 PM - Re: For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th (Bill Repucci)
56. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Bill Repucci)
57. 07:23 PM - Re: ***SPAM*** (Bill Repucci)
58. 07:29 PM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
59. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Ron Schreck)
60. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Ron Schreck)
61. 07:43 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos (Ron Schreck)
62. 08:14 PM - Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations (Charlie England)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Hi All,
Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it before? Doesn't
have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it because???? Read
on.
There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina, according to
my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would like to visit
all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that but how many have done
it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is 4.58 airports per hour.
I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each one, but a touch-and-go is
feasable, isn't it?
I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point, but it
keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one problem and that is how
to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I entered the coordinates
of all 110 into a database is there a program that could give me a flight plan
that would minimize the distance between them all? I could just spread the
map out on the dining room table and start connecting the dots, but that doesn't
seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a program? And while we are at it,
does anybody know if this has ever been tried or done before?
I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it is possible
and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
Ron "Smokey" Schreck
RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called
"travelling salesman" problem.
I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
James
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it
> because???? Read on.
>
> There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would
> like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that but how
> many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is
> 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each
> one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
>
> I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point,
> but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one problem and
> that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I entered
> the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could
> give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all? I
> could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting
> the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been
> tried or done before?
>
> I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it
> is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
>
> I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
>
> Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> Gold Hill Airpark, NC
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james@nextupventures.com .
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | NC Airports - 110 destinations |
I've thought of something like that..
I think it has been done in other states.. forgot which one it was.
Anyways, put "Traveling Salesman Problem" in Google and see if you find the
right software... that'll solve the main problem -- how to visit each place
once, and only once while minimizing time/gas/money spent on the trip.
Good luck!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Schreck
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:10 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
<ronschreck@windstream.net>
Hi All,
Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it before?
Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it because????
Read on.
There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would
like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that but how
many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is 4.58
airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each one,
but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point, but
it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one problem and that
is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I entered the
coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could give me
a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all? I could
just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting the
dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a program?
And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been tried or
done before?
I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it is
possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
Ron "Smokey" Schreck
RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see more
pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going over. Here
is some of the text from the link:
"Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm on
9th June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and
with some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and
when it came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have handled
it, how bizarre!"
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant
prior to the flight, for reasons unknown.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John S
Cargill
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Maybe he hit a rabbit?
Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Anderson <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my nose
gear for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had
failed, I did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was
supposedly no longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and
during high speed taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel
was tucking back and then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation
so I put wooden stiffeners back on the nose gear.
Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much larger
prop. I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of
sink, etc. To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the
throttle all the way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph
airspeed and dropped out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to
get the stick back into my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the
two main gear, bounced into the air for another 4-6 feet this time
dragging the rudder fairings (yes, still had the stick tucked back to my
backbone), and eventually came to a stop (right side up and on the
runway at Goosecreek).
Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings as
well as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had me
doing the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the
nose gear, I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the
gear had both broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners
that the ending would not have been as happy.
Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on the
phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com> Bowen
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything right....
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A that
had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
reported in the story.
A link to the story.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
<http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412>
Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
<http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html>
http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: East Coast to Yellowstone! |
Larry, Great contribution to the list, as always. Thanks!
>
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
> Date: 2007/06/16 Sat PM 09:36:03 EST
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com, rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: East Coast to Yellowstone!
>
> Several RV's from the east coast went to Cody, WY last week to check out
> Yellowstone. What an adventure! For me, it ranks right up there with the
> first flight as far as accomplishments go! Notes, pics and video here:
>
> http://bowenaero.com/mt3/2007/06/yellowstone_200.html
>
> Enjoy.
>
> --
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
I tried to do just 16 airports in 4 hours in my Luscombe one time. Tough to do,
didn't quite make it. Let us know if you try.
Bill Settle
-8 Wings.
>
> From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 07:10:05 EST
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it before? Doesn't
have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it because???? Read
on.
>
> There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina, according
to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would like to visit
all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that but how many have done
it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is 4.58 airports per hour.
I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each one, but a touch-and-go
is feasable, isn't it?
>
> I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point, but it
keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one problem and that is
how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I entered the coordinates
of all 110 into a database is there a program that could give me a flight
plan that would minimize the distance between them all? I could just spread
the map out on the dining room table and start connecting the dots, but that doesn't
seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a program? And while we are at
it, does anybody know if this has ever been tried or done before?
>
> I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it is possible
and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
>
> I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
>
> Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> Gold Hill Airpark, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
in math, this is referred to as the 'traveling salesman' problem. A google search
should turn up some sample codes. Wikipedia most likely has a good entry
with sample codes.
This might qualify as an FAI record if you do it and document it right.
Paul Franzon
919 515 7351
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
Subj: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
Size: 2K
Hi All,
Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it before? Doesn't
have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it because???? Read
on.
There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina, according to
my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would like to visit
all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that but how many have done
it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is 4.58 airports per hour.
I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each one, but a touch-and-go is
feasable, isn't it?
I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point, but it
keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one problem and that is how
to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I entered the coordinates
of all 110 into a database is there a program that could give me a flight plan
that would minimize the distance between them all? I could just spread the
map out on the dining room table and start connecting the dots, but that doesn't
seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a program? And while we are at it,
does anybody know if this has ever been tried or done before?
I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it is possible
and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
Ron "Smokey" Schreck
RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
And a special case of "traveling salesman" is the Hamiltonian Cycle (or
Path) Problem ... Start at point "a", traverse all once and end up at "a"
using shortest path (or least resources).
VERY difficult to solve as the number of points go up.
My guess is that more hours will be spent trying to solve for "the best"
route than it would take to fly **A** route. :-)
James
On 6/17/07, Paul D. Franzon <paulf@ncsu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> in math, this is referred to as the 'traveling salesman' problem. A
> google search should turn up some sample codes. Wikipedia most likely has a
> good entry with sample codes.
>
> This might qualify as an FAI record if you do it and document it right.
>
> Paul Franzon
> 919 515 7351
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> Subj: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> Date: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:10 am
> Size: 2K
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
>
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it
> because???? Read on.
>
> There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would
> like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that but how
> many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is
> 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each
> one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
>
> I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point,
> but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one problem and
> that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I entered
> the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could
> give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all? I
> could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting
> the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been
> tried or done before?
>
> I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it
> is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
>
> I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
>
> Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> Gold Hill Airpark, NC
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james@nextupventures.com .
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Ron, As you know, I've been in sales/service in NC for
40 yrs...I started tracking airports sometime back and
have now covered 79 in NC and nearly 300 world-wide
counting this last trip. Why not set up a plan to
visit all over some realistic time period including
full stops? Your log book would make for interesting
reading. You would surely be in a small but growing
club just by logging them all...BTW, at least 3 of my
NC airports are now closed...Reno.
--- Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> <ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Ever have the urge to do something just because
> nobody has done it before? Doesn't have to be
> something profitable or even fun, just do it
> because???? Read on.
>
> There are 110 public airports in the great state of
> North Carolina, according to my NCDOT, Division of
> Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would like to
> visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have
> done that but how many have done it in one day?
> Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is 4.58
> airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop
> landing at each one, but a touch-and-go is feasable,
> isn't it?
>
> I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my
> mind at this point, but it keeps rattling around in
> there. I keep stumbling on one problem and that is
> how to optomize the route between all 110 airports.
> If I entered the coordinates of all 110 into a
> database is there a program that could give me a
> flight plan that would minimize the distance between
> them all? I could just spread the map out on the
> dining room table and start connecting the dots, but
> that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such
> a program? And while we are at it, does anybody
> know if this has ever been tried or done before?
>
> I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do
> the math, see if it is possible and then, who knows,
> when the weather is right......
>
> I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
>
> Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> Gold Hill Airpark, NC
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something to do with the
farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
Smokey
>
> From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
>
> People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called
> "travelling salesman" problem.
>
> I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
>
> James
>
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it
> > because???? Read on.
> >
> > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would
> > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that but how
> > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is
> > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at each
> > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> >
> > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point,
> > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one problem and
> > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I entered
> > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could
> > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all? I
> > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting
> > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been
> > tried or done before?
> >
> > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it
> > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> >
> > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> >
> > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> james@nextupventures.com .
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Bill,
Back in '95 when Celanese transferred me to Charlotte Metrolina Expo was
still listed on the sectionals as an airport but it was closed and had
been closed for some time, as near as I can tell.
When did it actually close?
And a bit of airport trivia.
The Grandfather of one of my employees founded Miller Airpark. He told
me on Friday that his Grandfather crashed and burned on the field some
time back and is buried there, along with what is left of his plane.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill
crothers
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
--> <bill28104@yahoo.com>
Ron, As you know, I've been in sales/service in NC for
40 yrs...I started tracking airports sometime back and
have now covered 79 in NC and nearly 300 world-wide
counting this last trip. Why not set up a plan to
visit all over some realistic time period including
full stops? Your log book would make for interesting
reading. You would surely be in a small but growing
club just by logging them all...BTW, at least 3 of my
NC airports are now closed...Reno.
--- Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> <ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Ever have the urge to do something just because
> nobody has done it before? Doesn't have to be
> something profitable or even fun, just do it
> because???? Read on.
>
> There are 110 public airports in the great state of
> North Carolina, according to my NCDOT, Division of
> Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would like to
> visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have
> done that but how many have done it in one day?
> Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is 4.58
> airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop
> landing at each one, but a touch-and-go is feasable,
> isn't it?
>
> I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my
> mind at this point, but it keeps rattling around in
> there. I keep stumbling on one problem and that is
> how to optomize the route between all 110 airports.
> If I entered the coordinates of all 110 into a
> database is there a program that could give me a
> flight plan that would minimize the distance between
> them all? I could just spread the map out on the
> dining room table and start connecting the dots, but
> that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such
> a program? And while we are at it, does anybody
> know if this has ever been tried or done before?
>
> I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do
> the math, see if it is possible and then, who knows,
> when the weather is right......
>
> I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
>
> Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> Gold Hill Airpark, NC
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Ooooh, Kathy's gonna smack you for that one!
This record attempt sounds like a lot of night T&G's to me. No thanks. But
I agree with Reno that just logging all 110 sounds like a nice record to
have in your logbook.
The detour south was fabulous and well worth it. Never talked to center,
never even felt the need to file a flight plan, and only twice the whole way
did we see traffic outside of a landing pattern that could have been a
factor to us. I must confess I did talk to Flight Watch quite a bit from
Oklahoma home, which would have been unnecessary had i had a 396. I believe
Santa Claus is also convinced that in-flight Wx is a must before the next
long x/c; we'll see if she comes through for me.
I'll be retrieving the plane from KLWB today after church, so I can claim to
be officially home as of this afternoon.
Lots of sprucing up to do around here before June 30th.
-Stormy
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something to do
> with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
>
> Smokey
> >
> > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> >
> > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
> >
> > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called
> > "travelling salesman" problem.
> >
> > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do
> it
> > > because???? Read on.
> > >
> > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I
> would
> > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that
> but how
> > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is
> > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at
> each
> > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > >
> > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this
> point,
> > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one
> problem and
> > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I
> entered
> > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that
> could
> > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them
> all? I
> > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start
> connecting
> > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever
> been
> > > tried or done before?
> > >
> > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if
> it
> > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> > >
> > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > >
> > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> > james@nextupventures.com .
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
I think VA has a program where they award pilots who have done this...a
plaque or something. I think some on the list were working on it. Not in a
day tho, maybe a year instead....
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
On 6/17/07, James Clark <jclarkmail@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And a special case of "traveling salesman" is the Hamiltonian Cycle (or
> Path) Problem ... Start at point "a", traverse all once and end up at "a"
> using shortest path (or least resources).
>
> VERY difficult to solve as the number of points go up.
>
> My guess is that more hours will be spent trying to solve for "the best"
> route than it would take to fly **A** route. :-)
>
> James
>
>
> On 6/17/07, Paul D. Franzon <paulf@ncsu.edu> wrote:
> >
> > paulf@ncsu.edu>
> >
> > in math, this is referred to as the 'traveling salesman' problem. A
> > google search should turn up some sample codes. Wikipedia most likely has
a
> > good entry with sample codes.
> >
> > This might qualify as an FAI record if you do it and document it right.
> >
> > Paul Franzon
> > 919 515 7351
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > Subj: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > Date: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:10 am
> > Size: 2K
> > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com >
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it
> > because???? Read on.
> >
> > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would
> > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that but how
> > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is
> > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at
> > each one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> >
> > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point,
> > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one problem and
> > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I entered
> > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could
> > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all? I
> > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting
> > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been
> > tried or done before?
> >
> > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it
> > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> >
> > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> >
> > Ron "Smokey" Schreck james@nextupventures.com .
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to solve.
Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and stuff. On the EE
& CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer "nodes". The points
could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit or anything. The basic
idea is to solve for the "least expensive" (shortest, least time, least
cost) route to cover all the spots.
It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and somebody
realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular path as opposed
to random ones to cover all of the territory.
For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved. Actually
it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
James
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something to do
> with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
>
> Smokey
> >
> > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> >
> > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
> >
> > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called
> > "travelling salesman" problem.
> >
> > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do
> it
> > > because???? Read on.
> > >
> > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I
> would
> > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that
> but how
> > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is
> > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at
> each
> > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > >
> > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this
> point,
> > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one
> problem and
> > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I
> entered
> > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that
> could
> > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them
> all? I
> > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start
> connecting
> > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever
> been
> > > tried or done before?
> > >
> > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if
> it
> > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> > >
> > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > >
> > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> > james@nextupventures.com .
> >
> >
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james@nextupventures.com .
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | NC Airports - 110 destinations |
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/NC/Airfields_NC_Charlotte.htm#brockenbrough
"Brockenbrough Airport was apparently closed (for reasons unknown) at some
point between 1972-98"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
Bill,
Back in '95 when Celanese transferred me to Charlotte Metrolina Expo was
still listed on the sectionals as an airport but it was closed and had
been closed for some time, as near as I can tell.
When did it actually close?
And a bit of airport trivia.
The Grandfather of one of my employees founded Miller Airpark. He told
me on Friday that his Grandfather crashed and burned on the field some
time back and is buried there, along with what is left of his plane.
Bill
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling Salesman"
problem for the possible permutations to quickly become large enough
to take an excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the day
(maybe even the home computers of today).
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: James Clark
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to
solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and stuff.
On the EE & CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer
"nodes". The points could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit
or anything. The basic idea is to solve for the "least expensive"
(shortest, least time, least cost) route to cover all the spots.
It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and
somebody realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular
path as opposed to random ones to cover all of the territory.
For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved.
Actually it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
James
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
<ronschreck@windstream.net>
What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something
to do with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
Smokey
>
> From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
>
> People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so
called
> "travelling salesman" problem.
>
> I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
>
> James
>
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done
it
> > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun,
just do it
> > because???? Read on.
> >
> > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North
Carolina,
> > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart
Guide. I would
> > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done
that but how
> > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24
hours is
> > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop
landing at each
> > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> >
> > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this
point,
> > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one
problem and
> > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If
I entered
> > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program
that could
> > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between
them all? I
> > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start
connecting
> > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of
such a
> > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has
ever been
> > tried or done before?
> >
> > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math,
see if it
> > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> >
> > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> >
> > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james@nextupventures.com .
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Here is an example of a larger TSP problem that took 15.7 CPU YEARS to
solve in 2005, presumable 110 nodes would take a few years less {:>)
In March 2005, the traveling salesman problem of visiting all 33,810
points in a circuit board was solved using CONCORDE: a tour of length
66,048,945 units was found and it was proven that no shorter tour
exists. The computation took approximately 15.7 CPU years (Cook et al.
2006).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem#Exact_algorithms
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: James Clark
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to
solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and stuff.
On the EE & CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer
"nodes". The points could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit
or anything. The basic idea is to solve for the "least expensive"
(shortest, least time, least cost) route to cover all the spots.
It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and
somebody realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular
path as opposed to random ones to cover all of the territory.
For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved.
Actually it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
James
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
<ronschreck@windstream.net>
What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something
to do with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
Smokey
>
> From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
>
> People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so
called
> "travelling salesman" problem.
>
> I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
>
> James
>
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done
it
> > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun,
just do it
> > because???? Read on.
> >
> > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North
Carolina,
> > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart
Guide. I would
> > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done
that but how
> > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24
hours is
> > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop
landing at each
> > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> >
> > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this
point,
> > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one
problem and
> > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If
I entered
> > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program
that could
> > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between
them all? I
> > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start
connecting
> > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of
such a
> > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has
ever been
> > tried or done before?
> >
> > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math,
see if it
> > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> >
> > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> >
> > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james@nextupventures.com .
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Stormy,
OK, I have Googled the traveling salesman problem and now know that it has nothing
to do with the farmer's daughter. I have emailed a few mathematicians who
have studied the problem and hope they can help me with it. You are right about
the night touch & go's; not a player on unlighted airports. I am trying to
see if the circuit is feasable during civil twilight hours on the longest day
of the year. That may be the safest way to go.
Glad to hear all the Yellerstone gang is finally back home safely. The Garmin
496 was a tremendous aid. I have never felt so well informed and free to roam
around the country. Hope Snta is good to you. The trip was wonderful. Looking
forward to the Hop Along Fly-In so we can all re-live the trip together.
Smokey
>
> From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 09:33:47 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> Ooooh, Kathy's gonna smack you for that one!
>
> This record attempt sounds like a lot of night T&G's to me. No thanks. But
> I agree with Reno that just logging all 110 sounds like a nice record to
> have in your logbook.
>
> The detour south was fabulous and well worth it. Never talked to center,
> never even felt the need to file a flight plan, and only twice the whole way
> did we see traffic outside of a landing pattern that could have been a
> factor to us. I must confess I did talk to Flight Watch quite a bit from
> Oklahoma home, which would have been unnecessary had i had a 396. I believe
> Santa Claus is also convinced that in-flight Wx is a must before the next
> long x/c; we'll see if she comes through for me.
>
> I'll be retrieving the plane from KLWB today after church, so I can claim to
> be officially home as of this afternoon.
>
> Lots of sprucing up to do around here before June 30th.
>
> -Stormy
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something to do
> > with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > >
> > > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
> > >
> > > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called
> > > "travelling salesman" problem.
> > >
> > > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> > > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do
> > it
> > > > because???? Read on.
> > > >
> > > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> > > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I
> > would
> > > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that
> > but how
> > > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is
> > > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at
> > each
> > > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this
> > point,
> > > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one
> > problem and
> > > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I
> > entered
> > > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that
> > could
> > > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them
> > all? I
> > > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start
> > connecting
> > > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> > > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever
> > been
> > > > tried or done before?
> > > >
> > > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if
> > it
> > > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> > > >
> > > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> > > james@nextupventures.com .
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
That is correct Ed.
Therefore the "estimations" or "guesses" to get an answer that is "roughly
right".
For "n" nodes, does the computational volume go up by n**3 or is it
n**n!!!!!!!!?
(Was 30+ years ago when I was thinking this kind of stuff. :-) )
James
On 6/17/07, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>
> As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling Salesman"
> problem for the possible permutations to quickly become large enough to
> take an excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the day (maybe
> even the home computers of today).
>
> Ed
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* James Clark <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> *To:* rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to solve.
> Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and stuff. On the EE
> & CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer "nodes". The points
> could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit or anything. The basic
> idea is to solve for the "least expensive" (shortest, least time, least
> cost) route to cover all the spots.
>
> It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and somebody
> realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular path as opposed
> to random ones to cover all of the territory.
>
> For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved.
> Actually it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
>
> James
>
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something to do
> > with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > >
> > > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
> > >
> > > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so
> > called
> > > "travelling salesman" problem.
> > >
> > > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> > > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just
> > do it
> > > > because???? Read on.
> > > >
> > > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> > > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide.
> > I would
> > > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that
> > but how
> > > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours
> > is
> > > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at
> > each
> > > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this
> > point,
> > > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one
> > problem and
> > > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I
> > entered
> > > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that
> > could
> > > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them
> > all? I
> > > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start
> > connecting
> > > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> > > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever
> > been
> > > > tried or done before?
> > > >
> > > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see
> > if it
> > > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> > > >
> > > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> james@nextupventures.com .
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james@nextupventures.com .
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Ed,
You're right! As the number reaches 12 or more the permutations get into the billions!
There are some mathematicians who have made some algorithms that "approximate"
the ideal solution with considerably less computations. I'm no rocket
scientist and I'm not going to the moon, so maybe an approximate solution
would do.
Smokey
>
> From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling Salesman" problem
for the possible permutations to quickly become large enough to take an
excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the day (maybe even the
home computers of today).
>
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Clark
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
>
> In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to solve. Introduces
you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and stuff. On the EE & CS
side, it is linked more to electrical and computer "nodes". The points could
be network nodes, airports, customers to visit or anything. The basic idea is
to solve for the "least expensive" (shortest, least time, least cost) route to
cover all the spots.
>
> It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and somebody realized
they could be more efficient by taking a particular path as opposed to
random ones to cover all of the territory.
>
> For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved. Actually
it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
>
> James
>
>
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something to do
with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
>
> Smokey
> >
> > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> >
> > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
> >
> > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so called
> > "travelling salesman" problem.
> >
> > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do
it
> > > because???? Read on.
> > >
> > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I
would
> > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that but
how
> > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is
> > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at
each
> > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > >
> > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point,
> > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one problem
and
> > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I entered
> > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could
> > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all?
I
> > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting
> > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever
been
> > > tried or done before?
> > >
> > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if
it
> > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> > >
> > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > >
> > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james@nextupventures.com
.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Larry,
I'm going to email the NC DOT, Dept of Aviation and see if they have any record
of such attempts. I'll keep you all posted.
Smokey
>
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 09:27:28 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> I think VA has a program where they award pilots who have done this...a
> plaque or something. I think some on the list were working on it. Not in a
> day tho, maybe a year instead....
>
> --
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
> On 6/17/07, James Clark <jclarkmail@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > And a special case of "traveling salesman" is the Hamiltonian Cycle (or
> > Path) Problem ... Start at point "a", traverse all once and end up at "a"
> > using shortest path (or least resources).
> >
> > VERY difficult to solve as the number of points go up.
> >
> > My guess is that more hours will be spent trying to solve for "the best"
> > route than it would take to fly **A** route. :-)
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> > On 6/17/07, Paul D. Franzon <paulf@ncsu.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > paulf@ncsu.edu>
> > >
> > > in math, this is referred to as the 'traveling salesman' problem. A
> > > google search should turn up some sample codes. Wikipedia most likely has
a
> > > good entry with sample codes.
> > >
> > > This might qualify as an FAI record if you do it and document it right.
> > >
> > > Paul Franzon
> > > 919 515 7351
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > From: Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > Subj: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > Date: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:10 am
> > > Size: 2K
> > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com >
> > >
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just do it
> > > because???? Read on.
> > >
> > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide. I would
> > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that but how
> > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours is
> > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at
> > > each one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > >
> > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this point,
> > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one problem and
> > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I entered
> > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that could
> > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them all?
I
> > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start connecting
> > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever been
> > > tried or done before?
> > >
> > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see if it
> > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> > >
> > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > >
> > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck james@nextupventures.com .
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Ron,
I bet you didn't realize you were opening such a can of mathematical worms
did ya? :-)
It is a simple to describe but tough to solve problem.
I was doing some envelope scratching to see if I could come up with a way to
do it easily in Excel. (My head is hurting now. :-) )
Ask your friends if they have an Excel solution that can handle a 100x100
matrix. I **think** there may be a way to get "solver" in Excel to do such.
Then the only "work to do is enter the distances from/to all of the
airports. That data is typically o the backs of the state aeronautical
charts as I recall.
We just might have a "solution" be fore the day is over. :-) If so, I plan
to apply it to SC, which has <100 public airports.
James
p.s. Seems like there was an article about this where a guy in NJ did this.
There are fewer airports there and I think it was done in a day. The guy may
have been associated with Princeton. My mind is fuzzy right now.
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> Ed,
>
> You're right! As the number reaches 12 or more the permutations get into
> the billions! There are some mathematicians who have made some algorithms
> that "approximate" the ideal solution with considerably less
> computations. I'm no rocket scientist and I'm not going to the moon, so
> maybe an approximate solution would do.
>
> Smokey
>
>
> >
> > From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT
> > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> >
> > As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling Salesman"
> problem for the possible permutations to quickly become large enough to
> take an excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the day (maybe
> even the home computers of today).
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: James Clark
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> >
> >
> > In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to
> solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and stuff. On
> the EE & CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer "nodes". The
> points could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit or anything. The
> basic idea is to solve for the "least expensive" (shortest, least time,
> least cost) route to cover all the spots.
> >
> > It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and
> somebody realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular path
> as opposed to random ones to cover all of the territory.
> >
> > For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved.
> Actually it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something
> to do with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > >
> > > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
> > >
> > > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so
> called
> > > "travelling salesman" problem.
> > >
> > > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done
> it
> > > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun,
> just do it
> > > > because???? Read on.
> > > >
> > > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North
> Carolina,
> > > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart
> Guide. I would
> > > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done
> that but how
> > > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24
> hours is
> > > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop
> landing at each
> > > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this
> point,
> > > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one
> problem and
> > > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If
> I entered
> > > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program
> that could
> > > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between
> them all? I
> > > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start
> connecting
> > > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of
> such a
> > > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has
> ever been
> > > > tried or done before?
> > > >
> > > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math,
> see if it
> > > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> > > >
> > > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> james@nextupventures.com .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james@nextupventures.com .
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
I think this is the program for VA:
http://www.doav.virginia.gov/vaap.htm
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> Larry,
>
> I'm going to email the NC DOT, Dept of Aviation and see if they have any
> record of such attempts. I'll keep you all posted.
>
> Smokey
> >
> > From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 09:27:28 EDT
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> >
> > I think VA has a program where they award pilots who have done this...a
> > plaque or something. I think some on the list were working on it. Not
> in a
> > day tho, maybe a year instead....
> >
> > --
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> > On 6/17/07, James Clark <jclarkmail@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > And a special case of "traveling salesman" is the Hamiltonian Cycle
> (or
> > > Path) Problem ... Start at point "a", traverse all once and end up at
> "a"
> > > using shortest path (or least resources).
> > >
> > > VERY difficult to solve as the number of points go up.
> > >
> > > My guess is that more hours will be spent trying to solve for "the
> best"
> > > route than it would take to fly **A** route. :-)
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/17/07, Paul D. Franzon <paulf@ncsu.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > paulf@ncsu.edu>
> > > >
> > > > in math, this is referred to as the 'traveling salesman' problem. A
> > > > google search should turn up some sample codes. Wikipedia most
> likely has a
> > > > good entry with sample codes.
> > > >
> > > > This might qualify as an FAI record if you do it and document it
> right.
> > > >
> > > > Paul Franzon
> > > > 919 515 7351
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > >
> > > > From: Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > Subj: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > Date: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:10 am
> > > > Size: 2K
> > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com >
> > > >
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done it
> > > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun, just
> do it
> > > > because???? Read on.
> > > >
> > > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North Carolina,
> > > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart Guide.
> I would
> > > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done that
> but how
> > > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24 hours
> is
> > > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop landing at
> > > > each one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this
> point,
> > > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one
> problem and
> > > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If I
> entered
> > > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program that
> could
> > > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between them
> all? I
> > > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start
> connecting
> > > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of such a
> > > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has ever
> been
> > > > tried or done before?
> > > >
> > > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math, see
> if it
> > > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> > > >
> > > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck james@nextupventures.com .
> > > >
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
I don't post much here, but thought I'd chime in with one small snippet
of information. I got roped into helping a friend with a contract to try
and optimize the truck routes for the Hardees food delivery trucks. This
would have been back in the late 80s or early 90s. This was very much
the traveling salesman problem.
My friend was the math-geek and we applied a technique called "simulated
annealing" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_annealing) to try
and address this particular real-world problem. The issue was that the
trucks didn't always have the same delivery destinations on their list
(i.e. the "nodes" were rarely the same) so the Hardees folks could not
wait for days/weeks/months/years for a solution.
Depending upon the specific details of the algorithm used this technique
gives a non-optimal but better-than-randomly-chosen solution. Which is to
say that it worked .... sorta. :)
There are other aspects of this problem/project that caused me to ponder
killing my friend ... but that has nothing to do with simulated annealing,
and everything to do with project management, so I'll not go into that
here! Good luck!
-- Dwight
On Sun Jun 17 10:43:37 2007, Ron Schreck wrote :
>Ed,
>
>You're right! As the number reaches 12 or more the permutations get into the
billions! There are some mathematicians who have made some algorithms that "approximate"
the ideal solution with considerably less computations. I'm no rocket
scientist and I'm not going to the moon, so maybe an approximate solution
would do.
>
>Smokey
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | NC Airports ---Virginia |
Hey Guys,
Larry Burruss and I are based in the heart of Va, Louisa (LKU) and Larry
Bowen is right, we are working on visiting all the official State airports.
Va is awarding a leather flight jacket to all that accomplish the goal. They
provide a small book called a passport to us, the pilots, and each airport
has a rubber stamp with there name on it. When you stop in, you get your
passport book stamped and dated.
There are smaller gifts along the way, light hats and such, but the leather
jacket, will probably be the most expensive one in my closet, if I complete
the circuit.
The flying around is really a "some place to fly" thing for Larry and I. But
we REALLY enjoy it. We have met some interesting people and at some
airports, no one at all at others. At one....we had a phantom voice talk to
us on the radio.....I believe from memory, it was Tazewell in SW VA, the
runway was short and on top of a mountain and it barely fit in top. I
commented to Larry while in downwind on the CTAF that it looked like an
aircraft carrier! then the phantom voice came on and only said "it is! and
be careful" was all he said. The gentleman on the ground didn't have a
radio either!!
but he did tell us they had 3 wind socks along the runway and they rarely
agreed with each other.
anyway, we have really enjoyed the planning and flying all over the state
and we are only half done.
I even take pictures of the airports and have a file in the computer on each
airport, maybe when we are done, I can do a album of sorts, but probably
will just stay on the computer, :-) ...too much flying to do....
http://www.doav.virginia.gov/vaap.htm
Regards, Bob Martin
Proud member of the "Veggie Tale Squadron" :-)
>From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
>To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:27:28 -0400
>
>I think VA has a program where they award pilots who have done this...a
>plaque or something. I think some on the list were working on it. Not in
>a
>day tho, maybe a year instead....
>
_________________________________________________________________
Dont miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
I just found a "Salesman" tab on the Garmin 396 menu. For NC, at 155 KTS,
15 min break every three hours, no wind, it says 19:17. That's using the
Christofides algorithm, which has it's faults, but .......
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
On 6/17/07, James Clark <jclarkmail@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> I bet you didn't realize you were opening such a can of mathematical worms
> did ya? :-)
>
> It is a simple to describe but tough to solve problem.
>
> I was doing some envelope scratching to see if I could come up with a way
> to do it easily in Excel. (My head is hurting now. :-) )
>
> Ask your friends if they have an Excel solution that can handle a 100x100
> matrix. I **think** there may be a way to get "solver" in Excel to do such.
>
> Then the only "work to do is enter the distances from/to all of the
> airports. That data is typically o the backs of the state aeronautical
> charts as I recall.
>
> We just might have a "solution" be fore the day is over. :-) If so, I
> plan to apply it to SC, which has <100 public airports.
>
> James
> p.s. Seems like there was an article about this where a guy in NJ did
> this. There are fewer airports there and I think it was done in a day. The
> guy may have been associated with Princeton. My mind is fuzzy right now.
>
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Ed,
> >
> > You're right! As the number reaches 12 or more the permutations get
> > into the billions! There are some mathematicians who have made some
> > algorithms that "approximate" the ideal solution with considerably less
> > computations. I'm no rocket scientist and I'm not going to the moon, so
> > maybe an approximate solution would do.
> >
> > Smokey
> >
> >
> > >
> > > From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT
> > > To: < rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > >
> > > As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling
> > Salesman" problem for the possible permutations to quickly become large
> > enough to take an excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the
> > day (maybe even the home computers of today).
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: James Clark
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > >
> > >
> > > In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to
> > solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and stuff. On
> > the EE & CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer "nodes". The
> > points could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit or anything. The
> > basic idea is to solve for the "least expensive" (shortest, least time,
> > least cost) route to cover all the spots.
> > >
> > > It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and
> > somebody realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular path
> > as opposed to random ones to cover all of the territory.
> > >
> > > For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved.
> > Actually it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something
> > to do with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
> > >
> > > Smokey
> > > >
> > > > From: "James Clark" < jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > >
> > > > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
> > > >
> > > > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the
> > so called
> > > > "travelling salesman" problem.
> > > >
> > > > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has
> > done it
> > > > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun,
> > just do it
> > > > > because???? Read on.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North
> > Carolina,
> > > > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart
> > Guide. I would
> > > > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done
> > that but how
> > > > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24
> > hours is
> > > > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop
> > landing at each
> > > > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at
> > this point,
> > > > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on
> > one problem and
> > > > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110
> > airports. If I entered
> > > > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program
> > that could
> > > > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between
> > them all? I
> > > > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and
> > start connecting
> > > > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of
> > such a
> > > > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this
> > has ever been
> > > > > tried or done before?
> > > > >
> > > > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math,
> > see if it
> > > > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is
> > right......
> > > > >
> > > > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james@nextupventures.com
> > james@nextupventures.com .
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Hmm.. this program doesn't include Hop-a-Long?
* Anyways, EAA members Parker Johnstone and James Murphy flew a Beech
Bonanza 36 to all 96 hard-surface public airports in the state of Oregon in
one day, seven hours 16 minutes.
Don't know how OR compares to NC, but squeezing 110 in 24 hrs will be a
challenge. This assumes you'd actually wanna be awake and flying all 24
hrs?
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Bowen
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
I think this is the program for VA:
http://www.doav.virginia.gov/vaap.htm
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com <mailto:Larry@BowenAero.com>
http://BowenAero.com
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems to me to be
traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane lengths in 3
seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast, just faster
than 15mph.
I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and am really
having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are there any
issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the pilot and
passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision of slider
over tip-up.
Regards,
Rafael
_____
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see more
pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going over. Here is
some of the text from the link:
"Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm on 9th
June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and with
some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and when it
came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have handled it,
how bizarre!"
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant prior
to the flight, for reasons unknown.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John S
Cargill
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Maybe he hit a rabbit?
Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my nose gear
for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had failed, I
did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was supposedly no
longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and during high speed
taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking back and
then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put wooden
stiffeners back on the nose gear.
Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much larger prop.
I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of sink, etc.
To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the throttle all the
way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed and dropped
out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the stick back into
my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear, bounced into
the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder fairings (yes,
still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually came to a
stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings as well
as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had me doing
the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the nose gear,
I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear had both
broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that the ending
would not have been as happy.
Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on the
phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything right....
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A that
had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
reported in the story.
A link to the story.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
James,
I have the NC Aeronautical Chart and I don't see any distances listed. I may put
all of the airports on a flight planning program and start connecting dots.
Very unscientific, but I'm no rocket scientist.
Smokey
>
> From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:53:03 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> Ron,
>
> I bet you didn't realize you were opening such a can of mathematical worms
> did ya? :-)
>
> It is a simple to describe but tough to solve problem.
>
> I was doing some envelope scratching to see if I could come up with a way to
> do it easily in Excel. (My head is hurting now. :-) )
>
> Ask your friends if they have an Excel solution that can handle a 100x100
> matrix. I **think** there may be a way to get "solver" in Excel to do such.
>
> Then the only "work to do is enter the distances from/to all of the
> airports. That data is typically o the backs of the state aeronautical
> charts as I recall.
>
> We just might have a "solution" be fore the day is over. :-) If so, I plan
> to apply it to SC, which has <100 public airports.
>
> James
> p.s. Seems like there was an article about this where a guy in NJ did this.
> There are fewer airports there and I think it was done in a day. The guy may
> have been associated with Princeton. My mind is fuzzy right now.
>
>
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Ed,
> >
> > You're right! As the number reaches 12 or more the permutations get into
> > the billions! There are some mathematicians who have made some algorithms
> > that "approximate" the ideal solution with considerably less
> > computations. I'm no rocket scientist and I'm not going to the moon, so
> > maybe an approximate solution would do.
> >
> > Smokey
> >
> >
> > >
> > > From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT
> > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > >
> > > As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling Salesman"
> > problem for the possible permutations to quickly become large enough to
> > take an excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the day (maybe
> > even the home computers of today).
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: James Clark
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > >
> > >
> > > In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to
> > solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and stuff. On
> > the EE & CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer "nodes". The
> > points could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit or anything. The
> > basic idea is to solve for the "least expensive" (shortest, least time,
> > least cost) route to cover all the spots.
> > >
> > > It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and
> > somebody realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular path
> > as opposed to random ones to cover all of the territory.
> > >
> > > For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved.
> > Actually it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something
> > to do with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
> > >
> > > Smokey
> > > >
> > > > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > >
> > > > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
> > > >
> > > > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the so
> > called
> > > > "travelling salesman" problem.
> > > >
> > > > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has done
> > it
> > > > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun,
> > just do it
> > > > > because???? Read on.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North
> > Carolina,
> > > > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart
> > Guide. I would
> > > > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done
> > that but how
> > > > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24
> > hours is
> > > > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop
> > landing at each
> > > > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at this
> > point,
> > > > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on one
> > problem and
> > > > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110 airports. If
> > I entered
> > > > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program
> > that could
> > > > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between
> > them all? I
> > > > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and start
> > connecting
> > > > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of
> > such a
> > > > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this has
> > ever been
> > > > > tried or done before?
> > > > >
> > > > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math,
> > see if it
> > > > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is right......
> > > > >
> > > > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> > james@nextupventures.com .
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> james@nextupventures.com .
>
>
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports ---Virginia |
Bob,
Thanks for the information. I have written to the NC DOT Aviation Division to
see if they have any program in place or if anyone has attempted such a flight.
Something may come of this, or not, but I'm having fun planning and dreaming.
Ron Schreck
>
> From: "BOB martin" <libertyva@msn.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:01:59 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports ---Virginia
>
>
> Hey Guys,
> Larry Burruss and I are based in the heart of Va, Louisa (LKU) and Larry
> Bowen is right, we are working on visiting all the official State airports.
> Va is awarding a leather flight jacket to all that accomplish the goal. They
> provide a small book called a passport to us, the pilots, and each airport
> has a rubber stamp with there name on it. When you stop in, you get your
> passport book stamped and dated.
> There are smaller gifts along the way, light hats and such, but the leather
> jacket, will probably be the most expensive one in my closet, if I complete
> the circuit.
> The flying around is really a "some place to fly" thing for Larry and I. But
> we REALLY enjoy it. We have met some interesting people and at some
> airports, no one at all at others. At one....we had a phantom voice talk to
> us on the radio.....I believe from memory, it was Tazewell in SW VA, the
> runway was short and on top of a mountain and it barely fit in top. I
> commented to Larry while in downwind on the CTAF that it looked like an
> aircraft carrier! then the phantom voice came on and only said "it is! and
> be careful" was all he said. The gentleman on the ground didn't have a
> radio either!!
> but he did tell us they had 3 wind socks along the runway and they rarely
> agreed with each other.
> anyway, we have really enjoyed the planning and flying all over the state
> and we are only half done.
> I even take pictures of the airports and have a file in the computer on each
> airport, maybe when we are done, I can do a album of sorts, but probably
> will just stay on the computer, :-) ...too much flying to do....
> http://www.doav.virginia.gov/vaap.htm
> Regards, Bob Martin
> Proud member of the "Veggie Tale Squadron" :-)
>
> >From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
> >To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> >Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:27:28 -0400
> >
> >I think VA has a program where they award pilots who have done this...a
> >plaque or something. I think some on the list were working on it. Not in
> >a
> >day tho, maybe a year instead....
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dont miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
OK, Larry, you're pulling my leg now. Aren't you? If not, phone me right now!
Ron
>
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:05:29 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> I just found a "Salesman" tab on the Garmin 396 menu. For NC, at 155 KTS,
> 15 min break every three hours, no wind, it says 19:17. That's using the
> Christofides algorithm, which has it's faults, but .......
>
> --
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
> On 6/17/07, James Clark <jclarkmail@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ron,
> >
> > I bet you didn't realize you were opening such a can of mathematical worms
> > did ya? :-)
> >
> > It is a simple to describe but tough to solve problem.
> >
> > I was doing some envelope scratching to see if I could come up with a way
> > to do it easily in Excel. (My head is hurting now. :-) )
> >
> > Ask your friends if they have an Excel solution that can handle a 100x100
> > matrix. I **think** there may be a way to get "solver" in Excel to do such.
> >
> > Then the only "work to do is enter the distances from/to all of the
> > airports. That data is typically o the backs of the state aeronautical
> > charts as I recall.
> >
> > We just might have a "solution" be fore the day is over. :-) If so, I
> > plan to apply it to SC, which has <100 public airports.
> >
> > James
> > p.s. Seems like there was an article about this where a guy in NJ did
> > this. There are fewer airports there and I think it was done in a day. The
> > guy may have been associated with Princeton. My mind is fuzzy right now.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > Ed,
> > >
> > > You're right! As the number reaches 12 or more the permutations get
> > > into the billions! There are some mathematicians who have made some
> > > algorithms that "approximate" the ideal solution with considerably less
> > > computations. I'm no rocket scientist and I'm not going to the moon, so
> > > maybe an approximate solution would do.
> > >
> > > Smokey
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT
> > > > To: < rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > >
> > > > As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling
> > > Salesman" problem for the possible permutations to quickly become large
> > > enough to take an excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the
> > > day (maybe even the home computers of today).
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: James Clark
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to
> > > solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and stuff.
On
> > > the EE & CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer "nodes". The
> > > points could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit or anything.
The
> > > basic idea is to solve for the "least expensive" (shortest, least time,
> > > least cost) route to cover all the spots.
> > > >
> > > > It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and
> > > somebody realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular path
> > > as opposed to random ones to cover all of the territory.
> > > >
> > > > For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved.
> > > Actually it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have something
> > > to do with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
> > > >
> > > > Smokey
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "James Clark" < jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > >
> > > > > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for SC.
> > > > >
> > > > > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the
> > > so called
> > > > > "travelling salesman" problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has
> > > done it
> > > > > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even fun,
> > > just do it
> > > > > > because???? Read on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North
> > > Carolina,
> > > > > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart
> > > Guide. I would
> > > > > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have done
> > > that but how
> > > > > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by 24
> > > hours is
> > > > > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop
> > > landing at each
> > > > > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at
> > > this point,
> > > > > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on
> > > one problem and
> > > > > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110
> > > airports. If I entered
> > > > > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a program
> > > that could
> > > > > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance between
> > > them all? I
> > > > > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and
> > > start connecting
> > > > > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know of
> > > such a
> > > > > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this
> > > has ever been
> > > > > > tried or done before?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the math,
> > > see if it
> > > > > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is
> > > right......
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > > > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > > > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james@nextupventures.com
> > > james@nextupventures.com .
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
>
>
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Rad,
I figured I would somehow find the optimum route, input it in the Garmin 496 which
is coupled to my Trio autopilot and then all I have to do is sit back and
watch it all happen. ;-)
Smokey
>
> From: "Radomir Zaric" <vitez@carolina.rr.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:08:25 EDT
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> Hmm.. this program doesn't include Hop-a-Long?
>
>
>
> * Anyways, EAA members Parker Johnstone and James Murphy flew a Beech
> Bonanza 36 to all 96 hard-surface public airports in the state of Oregon in
> one day, seven hours 16 minutes.
>
>
>
> Don't know how OR compares to NC, but squeezing 110 in 24 hrs will be a
> challenge. This assumes you'd actually wanna be awake and flying all 24
> hrs?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> Bowen
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 11:02 AM
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
>
>
> I think this is the program for VA:
>
> http://www.doav.virginia.gov/vaap.htm
>
> --
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com <mailto:Larry@BowenAero.com>
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
>
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
Rafael,
There are no issues with nosewheels until they colapse! Taildraggers rule!
Smokey
>
> From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
>
> I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems to me to be
> traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane lengths in 3
> seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast, just faster
> than 15mph.
>
>
>
> I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and am really
> having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are there any
> issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
>
>
>
> BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the pilot and
> passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision of slider
> over tip-up.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Rafael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Repucci
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> photos
>
>
>
> PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
> http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see more
> pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going over. Here is
> some of the text from the link:
>
> "Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm on 9th
> June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and with
> some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and when it
> came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
>
> Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
>
> The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have handled it,
> how bizarre!"
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Repucci
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> photos
>
> The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant prior
> to the flight, for reasons unknown.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John S
> Cargill
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> photos
>
> In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
>
> Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe he hit a rabbit?
>
>
>
> Cappy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
>
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
>
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> photos
>
>
>
> Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my nose gear
> for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had failed, I
> did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was supposedly no
> longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and during high speed
> taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking back and
> then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put wooden
> stiffeners back on the nose gear.
>
>
>
> Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much larger prop.
> I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of sink, etc.
> To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the throttle all the
> way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed and dropped
> out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the stick back into
> my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear, bounced into
> the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder fairings (yes,
> still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually came to a
> stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
>
>
>
> Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings as well
> as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
> fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had me doing
> the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the nose gear,
> I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear had both
> broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that the ending
> would not have been as happy.
>
>
>
> Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on the
> phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
>
>
>
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
>
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
>
> Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
>
>
>
> Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything right....
>
> --
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
> To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
>
> The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
> eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A that
> had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
> reported in the story.
>
> A link to the story.
> http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
>
> Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
>
> http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
>
> http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
>
> http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
>
> http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Ooops. You are correct.
That was on some of my FLORIDA charts!! And they did not have every airport,
just the majors.
I suspect the Department of Transportation has the data though. A lot of
points though ... I think nxn/2
James
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> James,
>
> I have the NC Aeronautical Chart and I don't see any distances listed. I
> may put all of the airports on a flight planning program and start
> connecting dots. Very unscientific, but I'm no rocket scientist.
>
> Smokey
> >
> > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:53:03 EDT
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> >
> > Ron,
> >
> > I bet you didn't realize you were opening such a can of mathematical
> worms
> > did ya? :-)
> >
> > It is a simple to describe but tough to solve problem.
> >
> > I was doing some envelope scratching to see if I could come up with a
> way to
> > do it easily in Excel. (My head is hurting now. :-) )
> >
> > Ask your friends if they have an Excel solution that can handle a
> 100x100
> > matrix. I **think** there may be a way to get "solver" in Excel to do
> such.
> >
> > Then the only "work to do is enter the distances from/to all of the
> > airports. That data is typically o the backs of the state aeronautical
> > charts as I recall.
> >
> > We just might have a "solution" be fore the day is over. :-) If so, I
> plan
> > to apply it to SC, which has <100 public airports.
> >
> > James
> > p.s. Seems like there was an article about this where a guy in NJ did
> this.
> > There are fewer airports there and I think it was done in a day. The guy
> may
> > have been associated with Princeton. My mind is fuzzy right now.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > Ed,
> > >
> > > You're right! As the number reaches 12 or more the permutations get
> into
> > > the billions! There are some mathematicians who have made some
> algorithms
> > > that "approximate" the ideal solution with considerably less
> > > computations. I'm no rocket scientist and I'm not going to the moon,
> so
> > > maybe an approximate solution would do.
> > >
> > > Smokey
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT
> > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > >
> > > > As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling
> Salesman"
> > > problem for the possible permutations to quickly become large
> enough to
> > > take an excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the day
> (maybe
> > > even the home computers of today).
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: James Clark
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to
> > > solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and
> stuff. On
> > > the EE & CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer
> "nodes". The
> > > points could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit or
> anything. The
> > > basic idea is to solve for the "least expensive" (shortest, least
> time,
> > > least cost) route to cover all the spots.
> > > >
> > > > It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and
> > > somebody realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular
> path
> > > as opposed to random ones to cover all of the territory.
> > > >
> > > > For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved.
> > > Actually it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have
> something
> > > to do with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
> > > >
> > > > Smokey
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > >
> > > > > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for
> SC.
> > > > >
> > > > > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the
> so
> > > called
> > > > > "travelling salesman" problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has
> done
> > > it
> > > > > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even
> fun,
> > > just do it
> > > > > > because???? Read on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North
> > > Carolina,
> > > > > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart
> > > Guide. I would
> > > > > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have
> done
> > > that but how
> > > > > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by
> 24
> > > hours is
> > > > > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop
> > > landing at each
> > > > > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at
> this
> > > point,
> > > > > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on
> one
> > > problem and
> > > > > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110
> airports. If
> > > I entered
> > > > > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a
> program
> > > that could
> > > > > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance
> between
> > > them all? I
> > > > > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and
> start
> > > connecting
> > > > > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know
> of
> > > such a
> > > > > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this
> has
> > > ever been
> > > > > > tried or done before?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the
> math,
> > > see if it
> > > > > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is
> right......
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > > > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > > > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> > > james@nextupventures.com .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> > james@nextupventures.com .
> >
> >
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james@nextupventures.com .
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
Whatever. Why does the US military not use tailwheels? Huh what do you say to
that sir.
>
> From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
>
>
> Rafael,
>
> There are no issues with nosewheels until they colapse! Taildraggers rule!
>
> Smokey
> >
> > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
> >
> > I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems to me to be
> > traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane lengths in 3
> > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast, just faster
> > than 15mph.
> >
> >
> >
> > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and am really
> > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are there any
> > issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
> >
> >
> >
> > BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the pilot and
> > passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision of slider
> > over tip-up.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Rafael
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> > Repucci
> > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > photos
> >
> >
> >
> > PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
> > http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see more
> > pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going over. Here is
> > some of the text from the link:
> >
> > "Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm on 9th
> > June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and with
> > some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and when it
> > came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
> >
> > Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
> >
> > The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have handled it,
> > how bizarre!"
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> > Repucci
> > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > photos
> >
> > The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant prior
> > to the flight, for reasons unknown.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John S
> > Cargill
> > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > photos
> >
> > In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
> >
> > Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe he hit a rabbit?
> >
> >
> >
> > Cappy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
> >
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> >
> > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > photos
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my nose gear
> > for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had failed, I
> > did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was supposedly no
> > longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and during high speed
> > taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking back and
> > then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put wooden
> > stiffeners back on the nose gear.
> >
> >
> >
> > Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much larger prop.
> > I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of sink, etc.
> > To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the throttle all the
> > way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed and dropped
> > out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the stick back into
> > my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear, bounced into
> > the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder fairings (yes,
> > still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually came to a
> > stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
> >
> >
> >
> > Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings as well
> > as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
> > fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had me doing
> > the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the nose gear,
> > I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear had both
> > broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that the ending
> > would not have been as happy.
> >
> >
> >
> > Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on the
> > phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
> >
> >
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
> >
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> >
> > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
> >
> > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything right....
> >
> > --
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
> > To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
> > eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A that
> > had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
> > reported in the story.
> >
> > A link to the story.
> > http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
> >
> > Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
> >
> > http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
> >
> > http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
> >
> > http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
> >
> > http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
> >
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
Rafael,
I did not post this to start the nose wheel vs. tail wheel or the slider
vs. tip-up discussion (argument) but I did want to point out that the
-7A that flipped over in these pictures was a tip-up, not a slider. You
are right, the tip-up's roll bar seemed to protect the passengers.
(They were both passengers the minute that thing started to flip over.)
As for the nose wheel thing, there seems to be some discussion on the
Vansairforce.net forum that indicates the new nose wheel fork with it's
added clearance may have solved this problem.
Don't think tail wheel's are problem free. The standard Van's tail hook
has been known to catch things, like the edge of a concrete pad, and
pull the aft two bulkheads out. The solution for this problem is as
simple as replacing the tail wheel with one from Doug Bell or other
vendor. (Here's a picture of one installed on my RV:
http://www.repucci.com/bill/fuselage/tail%20wheel%20spring%20attachment.
jpg.)
BTW, my -9 has a tail wheel and a tip-up.
Good luck with your fuselage!
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rafael
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems to me
to be traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane
lengths in 3 seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too
fast, just faster than 15mph.
I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and am really
having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are there
any issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the pilot and
passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision of
slider over tip-up.
Regards,
Rafael
_____
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see more
pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going over. Here
is some of the text from the link:
"Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm on
9th June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and
with some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and
when it came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have handled
it, how bizarre!"
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant
prior to the flight, for reasons unknown.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John S
Cargill
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Maybe he hit a rabbit?
Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my nose
gear for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had
failed, I did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was
supposedly no longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and
during high speed taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel
was tucking back and then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation
so I put wooden stiffeners back on the nose gear.
Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much larger
prop. I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of
sink, etc. To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the
throttle all the way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph
airspeed and dropped out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to
get the stick back into my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the
two main gear, bounced into the air for another 4-6 feet this time
dragging the rudder fairings (yes, still had the stick tucked back to my
backbone), and eventually came to a stop (right side up and on the
runway at Goosecreek).
Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings as
well as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had me
doing the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the
nose gear, I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the
gear had both broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners
that the ending would not have been as happy.
Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on the
phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything right....
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A that
had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
reported in the story.
A link to the story.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
<http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412>
Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
<http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html>
http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
You are right, it is a tip-up. I was looking at the airplane inverted and
confused the roll bar with the forward end of the slider.
Cheers,
Rafael
_____
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
Rafael,
I did not post this to start the nose wheel vs. tail wheel or the slider vs.
tip-up discussion (argument) but I did want to point out that the -7A that
flipped over in these pictures was a tip-up, not a slider. You are right,
the tip-up's roll bar seemed to protect the passengers. (They were both
passengers the minute that thing started to flip over.)
As for the nose wheel thing, there seems to be some discussion on the
Vansairforce.net forum that indicates the new nose wheel fork with it's
added clearance may have solved this problem.
Don't think tail wheel's are problem free. The standard Van's tail hook has
been known to catch things, like the edge of a concrete pad, and pull the
aft two bulkheads out. The solution for this problem is as simple as
replacing the tail wheel with one from Doug Bell or other vendor. (Here's a
picture of one installed on my RV:
http://www.repucci.com/bill/fuselage/tail%20wheel%20spring%20attachment.jpg.
)
BTW, my -9 has a tail wheel and a tip-up.
Good luck with your fuselage!
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rafael
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems to me to be
traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane lengths in 3
seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast, just faster
than 15mph.
I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and am really
having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are there any
issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the pilot and
passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision of slider
over tip-up.
Regards,
Rafael
_____
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see more
pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going over. Here is
some of the text from the link:
"Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm on 9th
June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and with
some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and when it
came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have handled it,
how bizarre!"
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant prior
to the flight, for reasons unknown.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John S
Cargill
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Maybe he hit a rabbit?
Cappy
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my nose gear
for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had failed, I
did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was supposedly no
longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and during high speed
taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking back and
then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put wooden
stiffeners back on the nose gear.
Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much larger prop.
I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of sink, etc.
To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the throttle all the
way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed and dropped
out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the stick back into
my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear, bounced into
the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder fairings (yes,
still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually came to a
stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings as well
as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had me doing
the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the nose gear,
I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear had both
broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that the ending
would not have been as happy.
Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on the
phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything right....
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A that
had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
reported in the story.
A link to the story.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
James,
I have contacted the NC DOT Aviation Division and asked for any help they can provide.
Hope to hear something soon.
Smokey
>
> From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:34 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
> Ooops. You are correct.
>
> That was on some of my FLORIDA charts!! And they did not have every airport,
> just the majors.
>
> I suspect the Department of Transportation has the data though. A lot of
> points though ... I think nxn/2
>
> James
>
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > James,
> >
> > I have the NC Aeronautical Chart and I don't see any distances listed. I
> > may put all of the airports on a flight planning program and start
> > connecting dots. Very unscientific, but I'm no rocket scientist.
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:53:03 EDT
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > >
> > > Ron,
> > >
> > > I bet you didn't realize you were opening such a can of mathematical
> > worms
> > > did ya? :-)
> > >
> > > It is a simple to describe but tough to solve problem.
> > >
> > > I was doing some envelope scratching to see if I could come up with a
> > way to
> > > do it easily in Excel. (My head is hurting now. :-) )
> > >
> > > Ask your friends if they have an Excel solution that can handle a
> > 100x100
> > > matrix. I **think** there may be a way to get "solver" in Excel to do
> > such.
> > >
> > > Then the only "work to do is enter the distances from/to all of the
> > > airports. That data is typically o the backs of the state aeronautical
> > > charts as I recall.
> > >
> > > We just might have a "solution" be fore the day is over. :-) If so, I
> > plan
> > > to apply it to SC, which has <100 public airports.
> > >
> > > James
> > > p.s. Seems like there was an article about this where a guy in NJ did
> > this.
> > > There are fewer airports there and I think it was done in a day. The guy
> > may
> > > have been associated with Princeton. My mind is fuzzy right now.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > Ed,
> > > >
> > > > You're right! As the number reaches 12 or more the permutations get
> > into
> > > > the billions! There are some mathematicians who have made some
> > algorithms
> > > > that "approximate" the ideal solution with considerably less
> > > > computations. I'm no rocket scientist and I'm not going to the moon,
> > so
> > > > maybe an approximate solution would do.
> > > >
> > > > Smokey
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT
> > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > >
> > > > > As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes in the "traveling
> > Salesman"
> > > > problem for the possible permutations to quickly become large
> > enough to
> > > > take an excessive amount of time to solve on the computers of the day
> > (maybe
> > > > even the home computers of today).
> > > > >
> > > > > Ed
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: James Clark
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In Business School it is one of the "tough" problems you learn to
> > > > solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I seem to recall) and
> > stuff. On
> > > > the EE & CS side, it is linked more to electrical and computer
> > "nodes". The
> > > > points could be network nodes, airports, customers to visit or
> > anything. The
> > > > basic idea is to solve for the "least expensive" (shortest, least
> > time,
> > > > least cost) route to cover all the spots.
> > > > >
> > > > > It kinda started back when companies had "traveling salesmen and
> > > > somebody realized they could be more efficient by taking a particular
> > path
> > > > as opposed to random ones to cover all of the territory.
> > > > >
> > > > > For some size/class of problem, there is some "guessing" involved.
> > > > Actually it is intelligent approximation and estimation. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > What's the "traveling salesman problem"? Does this have
> > something
> > > > to do with the farmer's daughter? Tell me more.
> > > > >
> > > > > Smokey
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I too have thought about this type of thing .. although for
> > SC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > People have done this type thing and the trick is to solve the
> > so
> > > > called
> > > > > > "travelling salesman" problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will see if I can find stuff on this and get back later.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > James
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck < ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ever have the urge to do something just because nobody has
> > done
> > > > it
> > > > > > > before? Doesn't have to be something profitable or even
> > fun,
> > > > just do it
> > > > > > > because???? Read on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are 110 public airports in the great state of North
> > > > Carolina,
> > > > > > > according to my NCDOT, Division of Aviation, NC 2006 Airpart
> > > > Guide. I would
> > > > > > > like to visit all 110 of them. I'm sure many people have
> > done
> > > > that but how
> > > > > > > many have done it in one day? Let's see... 110 divided by
> > 24
> > > > hours is
> > > > > > > 4.58 airports per hour. I doubt you could do a full stop
> > > > landing at each
> > > > > > > one, but a touch-and-go is feasable, isn't it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I haven't taken this idea beyond the confines of my mind at
> > this
> > > > point,
> > > > > > > but it keeps rattling around in there. I keep stumbling on
> > one
> > > > problem and
> > > > > > > that is how to optomize the route between all 110
> > airports. If
> > > > I entered
> > > > > > > the coordinates of all 110 into a database is there a
> > program
> > > > that could
> > > > > > > give me a flight plan that would minimize the distance
> > between
> > > > them all? I
> > > > > > > could just spread the map out on the dining room table and
> > start
> > > > connecting
> > > > > > > the dots, but that doesn't seem too elegant. Anybody know
> > of
> > > > such a
> > > > > > > program? And while we are at it, does anybody know if this
> > has
> > > > ever been
> > > > > > > tried or done before?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I may never make the attempt, but I would like to do the
> > math,
> > > > see if it
> > > > > > > is possible and then, who knows, when the weather is
> > right......
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I welcome your comments, jeers, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ron "Smokey" Schreck
> > > > > > > RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
> > > > > > > Gold Hill Airpark, NC
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> > > > james@nextupventures.com .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> > > james@nextupventures.com .
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> james@nextupventures.com .
>
>
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
Sir,
About the time the US Army Air Corps decomissioned their last sod field they stopped
contracting for tailwheel aircraft. Read about the turbine powered "P-51"
Cavalier. The biggest reason they lost federal financing and any hopes of
a lucrative contract was because of the lack of a nose wheel. Don't think that
reasoning had ever been applied prior to that time. Nosegear aircraft are easier
to land on improved surfaces. Tailwheel aircraft are safer to land on unimproved
surfaces. This is a generalization, of course, but you get the point.
Let's do some touch & go's at Stormy's place and see what you think. ;-)
Smokey
>
> From: <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:42:28 EDT
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
>
>
> Whatever. Why does the US military not use tailwheels? Huh what do you say
to that sir.
> >
> > From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
> >
> >
> > Rafael,
> >
> > There are no issues with nosewheels until they colapse! Taildraggers rule!
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
> > >
> > > I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems to me to
be
> > > traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane lengths in
3
> > > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast, just faster
> > > than 15mph.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and am really
> > > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are there any
> > > issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the pilot and
> > > passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision of slider
> > > over tip-up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Rafael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> > > Repucci
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > photos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
> > > http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see more
> > > pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going over. Here
is
> > > some of the text from the link:
> > >
> > > "Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm on 9th
> > > June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and with
> > > some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and when it
> > > came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
> > >
> > > Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
> > >
> > > The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have handled it,
> > > how bizarre!"
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> > > Repucci
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > photos
> > >
> > > The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant prior
> > > to the flight, for reasons unknown.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John S
> > > Cargill
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > photos
> > >
> > > In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
> > >
> > > Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe he hit a rabbit?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cappy
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
> > >
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > photos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my nose gear
> > > for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had failed, I
> > > did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was supposedly no
> > > longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and during high speed
> > > taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking back and
> > > then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put wooden
> > > stiffeners back on the nose gear.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much larger prop.
> > > I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of sink, etc.
> > > To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the throttle all the
> > > way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed and dropped
> > > out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the stick back into
> > > my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear, bounced into
> > > the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder fairings (yes,
> > > still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually came to a
> > > stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings as well
> > > as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
> > > fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had me doing
> > > the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the nose gear,
> > > I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear had both
> > > broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that the ending
> > > would not have been as happy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on the
> > > phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
> > >
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything right....
> > >
> > > --
> > > Larry Bowen
> > > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > > http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
> > > To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
> > > eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A that
> > > had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
> > > reported in the story.
> > >
> > > A link to the story.
> > > http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
> > >
> > > Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
> > >
> > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
> > >
> > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
> > >
> > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
> > >
> > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
> > >
> > >
> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 40
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th |
That looks like the day I "might" move my fuselage to Goose. Any of you
who will be in the Charlotte area that day are more than welcome to lend
a hand and a trailer.
Which brings up another issue. Do any of you have a trailer that I
might borrow to get this thing to the airport. I must be at least 17
feet long and a bit over 7 feet wide to fit my -9. Who would have
thought the thing was that long. This is probably the only time I wish
would have built a -9A and not a -9.
Have fun at Stormy's. Bummer I'm going to miss it but I think Stormy
will forgive me this time.
Bill
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
Smokey,
What you say makes a lot of sense to me. I still believe the most important
factor is piloting technique. I suspect there is nothing wrong with the RV
nose wheel and the failures are due to the pilot bringing the nose down by
applying the brakes at too high a speed.
I have been taking some transition training on an RV6A. We have been doing
some touch & go's with the nose wheel never touching the pavement. I strive
to land and keep the nosewheel off the ground as long as possible, a
technique I try to use in any airplane, especially in unimproved fields.
Cheers,
Rafael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Schreck
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
<ronschreck@windstream.net>
Sir,
About the time the US Army Air Corps decomissioned their last sod field they
stopped contracting for tailwheel aircraft. Read about the turbine powered
"P-51" Cavalier. The biggest reason they lost federal financing and any
hopes of a lucrative contract was because of the lack of a nose wheel.
Don't think that reasoning had ever been applied prior to that time.
Nosegear aircraft are easier to land on improved surfaces. Tailwheel
aircraft are safer to land on unimproved surfaces. This is a
generalization, of course, but you get the point. Let's do some touch &
go's at Stormy's place and see what you think. ;-)
Smokey
>
> From: <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:42:28 EDT
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
>
>
> Whatever. Why does the US military not use tailwheels? Huh what do you
say to that sir.
> >
> > From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
over photos
> >
<ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Rafael,
> >
> > There are no issues with nosewheels until they colapse! Taildraggers
rule!
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
> > >
> > > I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems to me
to be
> > > traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane lengths
in 3
> > > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast, just
faster
> > > than 15mph.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and am
really
> > > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are there
any
> > > issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the pilot and
> > > passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision of
slider
> > > over tip-up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Rafael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> > > Repucci
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > photos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
> > > http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see more
> > > pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going over.
Here is
> > > some of the text from the link:
> > >
> > > "Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm on
9th
> > > June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and
with
> > > some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and when
it
> > > came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
> > >
> > > Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
> > >
> > > The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have handled
it,
> > > how bizarre!"
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> > > Repucci
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > photos
> > >
> > > The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant
prior
> > > to the flight, for reasons unknown.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
S
> > > Cargill
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > photos
> > >
> > > In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
> > >
> > > Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe he hit a rabbit?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cappy
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
> > >
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > photos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my nose
gear
> > > for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had
failed, I
> > > did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was supposedly
no
> > > longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and during high
speed
> > > taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking back
and
> > > then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put wooden
> > > stiffeners back on the nose gear.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much larger
prop.
> > > I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of sink,
etc.
> > > To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the throttle
all the
> > > way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed and
dropped
> > > out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the stick back
into
> > > my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear, bounced
into
> > > the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder fairings
(yes,
> > > still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually came
to a
> > > stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings as
well
> > > as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
> > > fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had me
doing
> > > the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the nose
gear,
> > > I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear had
both
> > > broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that the
ending
> > > would not have been as happy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on
the
> > > phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
> > >
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything right....
> > >
> > > --
> > > Larry Bowen
> > > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > > http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
> > > To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
> > > eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A that
> > > had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
> > > reported in the story.
> > >
> > > A link to the story.
> > > http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
> > >
> > > Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
> > >
> > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
> > >
> > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
> > >
> > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
> > >
> > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 42
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th |
Find an empty back/right seat and join us, Bill :-)
-Stormy
Officially back home now, just returned the plane from LWB.
On 6/17/07, Bill Repucci <bill@repucci.com> wrote:
>
> That looks like the day I "might" move my fuselage to Goose. Any of you
> who will be in the Charlotte area that day are more than welcome to lend a
> hand and a trailer.
>
> Which brings up another issue. Do any of you have a trailer that I might
> borrow to get this thing to the airport. I must be at least 17 feet long
> and a bit over 7 feet wide to fit my -9. Who would have thought the thing
> was that long. This is probably the only time I wish would have built a -9A
> and not a -9.
>
> Have fun at Stormy's. Bummer I'm going to miss it but I think Stormy will
> forgive me this time.
>
> Bill
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 43
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
I have a renewed respect for the precariousness of the nosewheel after
seeing that vid and pix. Just today I had a car on the road whose speed of
travel placed him at the threshold at the exact moment I crossed it to land
here. With my attention diverted to ensure I didn't crease his roof, I
looked up at the ASI to see 55 mph when I should see 65. Knowing I was way
behind the curve with the bottom about to drop out, I came in with a burst
of power. I ballooned a bit and floated a bit, but the touchdown was
smooth, not the THUNK that would otherwise have occurred (so I've been told
- not that I ever abuse my landing gear that way.) You can bet that video
was in my mind as I punched the throttle. I replaced my nosegear years ago
as a precaution, but it's the original fork on there. The surface here is
okay but not great; no holes but plenty of bumps. I have no desire to test
the stoutness of the nose leg. Full back elevator as soon as I can get it
in without scraping the rudder bottom, and no brakes until truly needed on
rollout is my rule on every landing.
Y'all be careful coming in here. I might just opt to add hull coverage for
the first time ever, since they dropped my liability-only rates to about
$300/year this year (over the magic 600 hour mark, I guess.)
-Stormy
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> Sir,
>
> About the time the US Army Air Corps decomissioned their last sod field
> they stopped contracting for tailwheel aircraft. Read about the turbine
> powered "P-51" Cavalier. The biggest reason they lost federal financing and
> any hopes of a lucrative contract was because of the lack of a nose
> wheel. Don't think that reasoning had ever been applied prior to that
> time. Nosegear aircraft are easier to land on improved surfaces. Tailwheel
> aircraft are safer to land on unimproved surfaces. This is a
> generalization, of course, but you get the point. Let's do some touch &
> go's at Stormy's place and see what you think. ;-)
>
> Smokey
> >
> > From: <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:42:28 EDT
> > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> over photos
> >
> >
> > Whatever. Why does the US military not use tailwheels? Huh what do you
> say to that sir.
> > >
> > > From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> over photos
> > >
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > Rafael,
> > >
> > > There are no issues with nosewheels until they colapse! Taildraggers
> rule!
> > >
> > > Smokey
> > > >
> > > > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> over photos
> > > >
> > > > I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems to
> me to be
> > > > traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane
> lengths in 3
> > > > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast, just
> faster
> > > > than 15mph.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and am
> really
> > > > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are
> there any
> > > > issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the pilot
> and
> > > > passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision of
> slider
> > > > over tip-up.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rafael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Bill
> > > > Repucci
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> over
> > > > photos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
> > > > http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see
> more
> > > > pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going
> over. Here is
> > > > some of the text from the link:
> > > >
> > > > "Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm
> on 9th
> > > > June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and
> with
> > > > some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and
> when it
> > > > came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
> > > >
> > > > Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
> > > >
> > > > The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have
> handled it,
> > > > how bizarre!"
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Bill
> > > > Repucci
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> over
> > > > photos
> > > >
> > > > The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant
> prior
> > > > to the flight, for reasons unknown.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> John S
> > > > Cargill
> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> over
> > > > photos
> > > >
> > > > In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
> > > >
> > > > Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Maybe he hit a rabbit?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cappy
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
> > > >
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> over
> > > > photos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my
> nose gear
> > > > for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had
> failed, I
> > > > did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was supposedly
> no
> > > > longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and during
> high speed
> > > > taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking
> back and
> > > > then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put wooden
> > > > stiffeners back on the nose gear.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much
> larger prop.
> > > > I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of
> sink, etc.
> > > > To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the throttle
> all the
> > > > way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed and
> dropped
> > > > out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the stick
> back into
> > > > my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear,
> bounced into
> > > > the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder fairings
> (yes,
> > > > still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually came
> to a
> > > > stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings
> as well
> > > > as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
> > > > fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had
> me doing
> > > > the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the
> nose gear,
> > > > I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear had
> both
> > > > broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that the
> ending
> > > > would not have been as happy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on
> the
> > > > phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
> > > >
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> photos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything
> right....
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Larry Bowen
> > > > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > > > http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
> > > > To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
> > > > eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A
> that
> > > > had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
> > > > reported in the story.
> > > >
> > > > A link to the story.
> > > > http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
> > > >
> > > > Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> http://www.matron
> > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> http://www.matron
> > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> http://www.matron
> > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 44
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
Stormy,
Welcome home! Did you make it to the Grand Canyon? Kathy and I really want to
take that trip, but the timing wasn't right to continue that way from Yellowstone.
Hope you had a good time. If we do that trip next year you can be our
guide!
Smokey
>
> From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 02:32:28 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
>
> I have a renewed respect for the precariousness of the nosewheel after
> seeing that vid and pix. Just today I had a car on the road whose speed of
> travel placed him at the threshold at the exact moment I crossed it to land
> here. With my attention diverted to ensure I didn't crease his roof, I
> looked up at the ASI to see 55 mph when I should see 65. Knowing I was way
> behind the curve with the bottom about to drop out, I came in with a burst
> of power. I ballooned a bit and floated a bit, but the touchdown was
> smooth, not the THUNK that would otherwise have occurred (so I've been told
> - not that I ever abuse my landing gear that way.) You can bet that video
> was in my mind as I punched the throttle. I replaced my nosegear years ago
> as a precaution, but it's the original fork on there. The surface here is
> okay but not great; no holes but plenty of bumps. I have no desire to test
> the stoutness of the nose leg. Full back elevator as soon as I can get it
> in without scraping the rudder bottom, and no brakes until truly needed on
> rollout is my rule on every landing.
>
> Y'all be careful coming in here. I might just opt to add hull coverage for
> the first time ever, since they dropped my liability-only rates to about
> $300/year this year (over the magic 600 hour mark, I guess.)
>
> -Stormy
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Sir,
> >
> > About the time the US Army Air Corps decomissioned their last sod field
> > they stopped contracting for tailwheel aircraft. Read about the turbine
> > powered "P-51" Cavalier. The biggest reason they lost federal financing and
> > any hopes of a lucrative contract was because of the lack of a nose
> > wheel. Don't think that reasoning had ever been applied prior to that
> > time. Nosegear aircraft are easier to land on improved surfaces. Tailwheel
> > aircraft are safer to land on unimproved surfaces. This is a
> > generalization, of course, but you get the point. Let's do some touch &
> > go's at Stormy's place and see what you think. ;-)
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:42:28 EDT
> > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > over photos
> > >
> > >
> > > Whatever. Why does the US military not use tailwheels? Huh what do you
> > say to that sir.
> > > >
> > > > From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > over photos
> > > >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > Rafael,
> > > >
> > > > There are no issues with nosewheels until they colapse! Taildraggers
> > rule!
> > > >
> > > > Smokey
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > over photos
> > > > >
> > > > > I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems to
> > me to be
> > > > > traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane
> > lengths in 3
> > > > > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast, just
> > faster
> > > > > than 15mph.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and am
> > really
> > > > > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are
> > there any
> > > > > issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the pilot
> > and
> > > > > passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision of
> > slider
> > > > > over tip-up.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Rafael
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > Bill
> > > > > Repucci
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > over
> > > > > photos
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
> > > > > http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see
> > more
> > > > > pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going
> > over. Here is
> > > > > some of the text from the link:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm
> > on 9th
> > > > > June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and
> > with
> > > > > some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and
> > when it
> > > > > came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
> > > > >
> > > > > Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
> > > > >
> > > > > The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have
> > handled it,
> > > > > how bizarre!"
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > Bill
> > > > > Repucci
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > over
> > > > > photos
> > > > >
> > > > > The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant
> > prior
> > > > > to the flight, for reasons unknown.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > John S
> > > > > Cargill
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > over
> > > > > photos
> > > > >
> > > > > In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe he hit a rabbit?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Cappy
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
> > > > >
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > over
> > > > > photos
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my
> > nose gear
> > > > > for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had
> > failed, I
> > > > > did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was supposedly
> > no
> > > > > longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and during
> > high speed
> > > > > taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking
> > back and
> > > > > then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put wooden
> > > > > stiffeners back on the nose gear.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much
> > larger prop.
> > > > > I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of
> > sink, etc.
> > > > > To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the throttle
> > all the
> > > > > way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed and
> > dropped
> > > > > out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the stick
> > back into
> > > > > my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear,
> > bounced into
> > > > > the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder fairings
> > (yes,
> > > > > still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually came
> > to a
> > > > > stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings
> > as well
> > > > > as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
> > > > > fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had
> > me doing
> > > > > the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the
> > nose gear,
> > > > > I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear had
> > both
> > > > > broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that the
> > ending
> > > > > would not have been as happy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on
> > the
> > > > > phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ed
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > photos
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything
> > right....
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Larry Bowen
> > > > > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > > > > http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
> > > > > To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
> > > > > eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A
> > that
> > > > > had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
> > > > > reported in the story.
> > > > >
> > > > > A link to the story.
> > > > > http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
> > > > >
> > > > > Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > http://www.matron
> > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > http://www.matron
> > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > http://www.matron
> > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 45
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Radomir Zaric wrote:
>
> I've thought of something like that..
>
> I think it has been done in other states.. forgot which one it was.
>
> Anyways, put "Traveling Salesman Problem" in Google and see if you find the
> right software... that'll solve the main problem -- how to visit each place
> once, and only once while minimizing time/gas/money spent on the trip.
>
> Good luck!
A couple of friends did it in MS about 15 years ago; I don't think they
realized that it had been done 30 or 40 years earlier.
I suspect that their planning was 'map & yardstick on the table'; one
doesn't even own a computer & that long ago I doubt the other did either.
Charlie
Message 46
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th |
Let's see...
Move the airplane to the hangar or fly to Stormy's for a day of RV'ing
with link minded wing nuts.
Hummmm, tough question. However, after four plus years of building, the
pull to get the thing in the air wins out.
Besides, the 30th is my birthday and moving the thing to the airport
seems like a good gift.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Boyd
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to Stormy's on
the 30th
Find an empty back/right seat and join us, Bill :-)
-Stormy
Officially back home now, just returned the plane from LWB.
On 6/17/07, Bill Repucci <bill@repucci.com> wrote:
That looks like the day I "might" move my fuselage to Goose. Any of you
who will be in the Charlotte area that day are more than welcome to lend
a hand and a trailer.
Which brings up another issue. Do any of you have a trailer that I
might borrow to get this thing to the airport. I must be at least 17
feet long and a bit over 7 feet wide to fit my -9. Who would have
thought the thing was that long. This is probably the only time I wish
would have built a -9A and not a -9.
Have fun at Stormy's. Bummer I'm going to miss it but I think Stormy
will forgive me this time.
Bill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 47
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th |
Celebrated mine in Clinton, OK, trying to get home... made it, too, to 17
for the third time.
-Stormy
On 6/17/07, Bill Repucci <bill@repucci.com> wrote:
>
> Let's see...
>
> Move the airplane to the hangar or fly to Stormy's for a day of RV'ing
> with link minded wing nuts.
>
> Hummmm, tough question. However, after four plus years of building, the
> pull to get the thing in the air wins out.
>
> Besides, the 30th is my birthday and moving the thing to the airport seems
> like a good gift.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:21 PM
> *To:* rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to Stormy's on
> the 30th
>
> Find an empty back/right seat and join us, Bill :-)
>
> -Stormy
>
> Officially back home now, just returned the plane from LWB.
>
> On 6/17/07, Bill Repucci <bill@repucci.com> wrote:
> >
> > That looks like the day I "might" move my fuselage to Goose. Any of
> > you who will be in the Charlotte area that day are more than welcome to lend
> > a hand and a trailer.
> >
> > Which brings up another issue. Do any of you have a trailer that I
> > might borrow to get this thing to the airport. I must be at least 17 feet
> > long and a bit over 7 feet wide to fit my -9. Who would have thought the
> > thing was that long. This is probably the only time I wish would have built
> > a -9A and not a -9.
> >
> > Have fun at Stormy's. Bummer I'm going to miss it but I think Stormy
> > will forgive me this time.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > *
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > *
> >
> > *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 48
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
We ended up only overflying the Grand on the way out... after two days in
Utah seeing the Zion NP and Bryce Canyon up close from the ground, we were
convinced the Grand would be anticlimactic by comparison, and were right, I
think.
We found the best Mex restaurant ever in Kanab, UT. But the best Margaritas
were the 27 ouncers in Cody, by a slim margin. The banana margaritas at the
place in Kanab were fine, but smaller.
We'll be happy to share what we've learned. Visually, Yellowstone pales
compared to Zion and Bryce, and the Grand looks like a big hazy ditch from
the allowed overflight altitudes.
-Stormy
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> ronschreck@windstream.net>
>
> Stormy,
>
> Welcome home! Did you make it to the Grand Canyon? Kathy and I really
> want to take that trip, but the timing wasn't right to continue that way
> from Yellowstone. Hope you had a good time. If we do that trip next year
> you can be our guide!
>
> Smokey
> >
> > From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 02:32:28 EDT
> > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> over photos
> >
> > I have a renewed respect for the precariousness of the nosewheel after
> > seeing that vid and pix. Just today I had a car on the road whose speed
> of
> > travel placed him at the threshold at the exact moment I crossed it to
> land
> > here. With my attention diverted to ensure I didn't crease his roof, I
> > looked up at the ASI to see 55 mph when I should see 65. Knowing I was
> way
> > behind the curve with the bottom about to drop out, I came in with a
> burst
> > of power. I ballooned a bit and floated a bit, but the touchdown was
> > smooth, not the THUNK that would otherwise have occurred (so I've been
> told
> > - not that I ever abuse my landing gear that way.) You can bet that
> video
> > was in my mind as I punched the throttle. I replaced my nosegear years
> ago
> > as a precaution, but it's the original fork on there. The surface here
> is
> > okay but not great; no holes but plenty of bumps. I have no desire to
> test
> > the stoutness of the nose leg. Full back elevator as soon as I can get
> it
> > in without scraping the rudder bottom, and no brakes until truly needed
> on
> > rollout is my rule on every landing.
> >
> > Y'all be careful coming in here. I might just opt to add hull coverage
> for
> > the first time ever, since they dropped my liability-only rates to about
> > $300/year this year (over the magic 600 hour mark, I guess.)
> >
> > -Stormy
> >
> > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > Sir,
> > >
> > > About the time the US Army Air Corps decomissioned their last sod
> field
> > > they stopped contracting for tailwheel aircraft. Read about the
> turbine
> > > powered "P-51" Cavalier. The biggest reason they lost federal
> financing and
> > > any hopes of a lucrative contract was because of the lack of a nose
> > > wheel. Don't think that reasoning had ever been applied prior to that
> > > time. Nosegear aircraft are easier to land on improved
> surfaces. Tailwheel
> > > aircraft are safer to land on unimproved surfaces. This is a
> > > generalization, of course, but you get the point. Let's do some touch
> &
> > > go's at Stormy's place and see what you think. ;-)
> > >
> > > Smokey
> > > >
> > > > From: <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:42:28 EDT
> > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> flipping
> > > over photos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Whatever. Why does the US military not use tailwheels? Huh what do
> you
> > > say to that sir.
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> flipping
> > > over photos
> > > > >
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Rafael,
> > > > >
> > > > > There are no issues with nosewheels until they
> colapse! Taildraggers
> > > rule!
> > > > >
> > > > > Smokey
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> flipping
> > > over photos
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems
> to
> > > me to be
> > > > > > traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane
> > > lengths in 3
> > > > > > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast,
> just
> > > faster
> > > > > > than 15mph.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and
> am
> > > really
> > > > > > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are
> > > there any
> > > > > > issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the
> pilot
> > > and
> > > > > > passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision
> of
> > > slider
> > > > > > over tip-up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rafael
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Bill
> > > > > > Repucci
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> flipping
> > > over
> > > > > > photos
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
> > > > > > http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see
> > > more
> > > > > > pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going
> > > over. Here is
> > > > > > some of the text from the link:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft
> Farm
> > > on 9th
> > > > > > June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll,
> and
> > > with
> > > > > > some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and
> > > when it
> > > > > > came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground
> marshal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have
> > > handled it,
> > > > > > how bizarre!"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Bill
> > > > > > Repucci
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
> > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> flipping
> > > over
> > > > > > photos
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel
> pant
> > > prior
> > > > > > to the flight, for reasons unknown.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > John S
> > > > > > Cargill
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
> > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> flipping
> > > over
> > > > > > photos
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe he hit a rabbit?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cappy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> flipping
> > > over
> > > > > > photos
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced
> my
> > > nose gear
> > > > > > for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had
> > > failed, I
> > > > > > did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was
> supposedly
> > > no
> > > > > > longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and
> during
> > > high speed
> > > > > > taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking
> > > back and
> > > > > > then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put
> wooden
> > > > > > stiffeners back on the nose gear.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much
> > > larger prop.
> > > > > > I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of
> > > sink, etc.
> > > > > > To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the
> throttle
> > > all the
> > > > > > way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed
> and
> > > dropped
> > > > > > out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the
> stick
> > > back into
> > > > > > my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear,
> > > bounced into
> > > > > > the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder
> fairings
> > > (yes,
> > > > > > still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually
> came
> > > to a
> > > > > > stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt
> bearings
> > > as well
> > > > > > as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing -
> but
> > > > > > fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely
> had
> > > me doing
> > > > > > the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the
> > > nose gear,
> > > > > > I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear
> had
> > > both
> > > > > > broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that
> the
> > > ending
> > > > > > would not have been as happy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional
> data on
> > > the
> > > > > > phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ed
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> over
> > > photos
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything
> > > right....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Larry Bowen
> > > > > > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > > > > > http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
> > > > > > To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in
> my
> > > > > > eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A
> > > that
> > > > > > had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no
> injuries
> > > > > > reported in the story.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A link to the story.
> > > > > > http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > > http://www.matron
> > > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > > http://www.matron
> > > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > > http://www.matron
> > > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 49
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | For those of you not going to Stormy's |
on the 30th
Hi, Bill
Give me a call/e mail the day before you plan on moving your aircraft
and I'll be out to GooseCreek to help
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Boyd
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to Stormy's
on the 30th
Celebrated mine in Clinton, OK, trying to get home... made it, too, to
17 for the third time.
-Stormy
On 6/17/07, Bill Repucci < bill@repucci.com> wrote:
Let's see...
Move the airplane to the hangar or fly to Stormy's for a day of
RV'ing with link minded wing nuts.
Hummmm, tough question. However, after four plus years of building,
the pull to get the thing in the air wins out.
Besides, the 30th is my birthday and moving the thing to the airport
seems like a good gift.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Boyd
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:21 PM
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to
Stormy's on the 30th
Find an empty back/right seat and join us, Bill :-)
-Stormy
Officially back home now, just returned the plane from LWB.
On 6/17/07, Bill Repucci <bill@repucci.com> wrote:
That looks like the day I "might" move my fuselage to Goose. Any
of you who will be in the Charlotte area that day are more than welcome
to lend a hand and a trailer.
Which brings up another issue. Do any of you have a trailer that
I might borrow to get this thing to the airport. I must be at least 17
feet long and a bit over 7 feet wide to fit my -9. Who would have
thought the thing was that long. This is probably the only time I wish
would have built a -9A and not a -9.
Have fun at Stormy's. Bummer I'm going to miss it but I think
Stormy will forgive me this time.
Bill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 50
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | NC Airports - 110 destinations |
was in the 90s. A ANGuard pilot friend named Hank
Dutch ran it. Reno.
--- Radomir Zaric <vitez@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> Zaric" <vitez@carolina.rr.com>
>
>
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/NC/Airfields_NC_Charlotte.htm#brockenbrough
>
>
> "Brockenbrough Airport was apparently closed (for
> reasons unknown) at some
> point between 1972-98"
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bill
> Repucci
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:25 AM
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110
> destinations
>
> Repucci" <bill@repucci.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> Back in '95 when Celanese transferred me to
> Charlotte Metrolina Expo was
> still listed on the sectionals as an airport but it
> was closed and had
> been closed for some time, as near as I can tell.
>
> When did it actually close?
>
> And a bit of airport trivia.
>
> The Grandfather of one of my employees founded
> Miller Airpark. He told
> me on Friday that his Grandfather crashed and burned
> on the field some
> time back and is buried there, along with what is
> left of his plane.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
Message 51
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
Done, but we only count the times when YOUR wheels stay on the ground and not
bounce.
Fair enough?
Stripes
>
> From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 12:55:07 EDT
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
>
>
> Sir,
>
> About the time the US Army Air Corps decomissioned their last sod field they
stopped contracting for tailwheel aircraft. Read about the turbine powered "P-51"
Cavalier. The biggest reason they lost federal financing and any hopes of
a lucrative contract was because of the lack of a nose wheel. Don't think that
reasoning had ever been applied prior to that time. Nosegear aircraft are
easier to land on improved surfaces. Tailwheel aircraft are safer to land on
unimproved surfaces. This is a generalization, of course, but you get the point.
Let's do some touch & go's at Stormy's place and see what you think. ;-)
>
> Smokey
> >
> > From: <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:42:28 EDT
> > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
> >
> >
> > Whatever. Why does the US military not use tailwheels? Huh what do you say
to that sir.
> > >
> > > From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
> > >
> > >
> > > Rafael,
> > >
> > > There are no issues with nosewheels until they colapse! Taildraggers rule!
> > >
> > > Smokey
> > > >
> > > > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
photos
> > > >
> > > > I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems to me
to be
> > > > traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane lengths
in 3
> > > > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast, just faster
> > > > than 15mph.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and am really
> > > > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are there
any
> > > > issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the pilot and
> > > > passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision of slider
> > > > over tip-up.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rafael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> > > > Repucci
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > > photos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
> > > > http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see more
> > > > pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going over. Here
is
> > > > some of the text from the link:
> > > >
> > > > "Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft Farm on
9th
> > > > June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll, and with
> > > > some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and when it
> > > > came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
> > > >
> > > > Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground marshal.
> > > >
> > > > The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have handled it,
> > > > how bizarre!"
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> > > > Repucci
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > > photos
> > > >
> > > > The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel pant prior
> > > > to the flight, for reasons unknown.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John S
> > > > Cargill
> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > > photos
> > > >
> > > > In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
> > > >
> > > > Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Maybe he hit a rabbit?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cappy
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
> > > >
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over
> > > > photos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced my nose
gear
> > > > for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had failed,
I
> > > > did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was supposedly no
> > > > longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and during high
speed
> > > > taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking back and
> > > > then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put wooden
> > > > stiffeners back on the nose gear.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much larger
prop.
> > > > I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of sink,
etc.
> > > > To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the throttle all
the
> > > > way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed and dropped
> > > > out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the stick back
into
> > > > my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear, bounced into
> > > > the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder fairings (yes,
> > > > still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually came to
a
> > > > stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt bearings as well
> > > > as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing - but
> > > > fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely had me
doing
> > > > the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the nose gear,
> > > > I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear had both
> > > > broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that the ending
> > > > would not have been as happy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional data on the
> > > > phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
> > > >
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything right....
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Larry Bowen
> > > > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > > > http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
> > > > To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in my
> > > > eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A that
> > > > had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no injuries
> > > > reported in the story.
> > > >
> > > > A link to the story.
> > > > http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
> > > >
> > > > Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
> > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 52
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
BTW guys, there are WAY more than 110 airports in NC..
I can show 20 near clt counting all the private ones,
many which I have visited. I bet its 200+. Reno.
--- James Clark <jclarkmail@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ooops. You are correct.
>
> That was on some of my FLORIDA charts!! And they did
> not have every airport,
> just the majors.
>
> I suspect the Department of Transportation has the
> data though. A lot of
> points though ... I think nxn/2
>
> James
>
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> wrote:
> >
> Schreck <
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > James,
> >
> > I have the NC Aeronautical Chart and I don't see
> any distances listed. I
> > may put all of the airports on a flight planning
> program and start
> > connecting dots. Very unscientific, but I'm no
> rocket scientist.
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:53:03 EDT
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports -
> 110 destinations
> > >
> > > Ron,
> > >
> > > I bet you didn't realize you were opening such a
> can of mathematical
> > worms
> > > did ya? :-)
> > >
> > > It is a simple to describe but tough to solve
> problem.
> > >
> > > I was doing some envelope scratching to see if I
> could come up with a
> > way to
> > > do it easily in Excel. (My head is hurting now.
> :-) )
> > >
> > > Ask your friends if they have an Excel solution
> that can handle a
> > 100x100
> > > matrix. I **think** there may be a way to get
> "solver" in Excel to do
> > such.
> > >
> > > Then the only "work to do is enter the distances
> from/to all of the
> > > airports. That data is typically o the backs of
> the state aeronautical
> > > charts as I recall.
> > >
> > > We just might have a "solution" be fore the day
> is over. :-) If so, I
> > plan
> > > to apply it to SC, which has <100 public
> airports.
> > >
> > > James
> > > p.s. Seems like there was an article about this
> where a guy in NJ did
> > this.
> > > There are fewer airports there and I think it
> was done in a day. The guy
> > may
> > > have been associated with Princeton. My mind is
> fuzzy right now.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck
> <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > >
> Schreck <
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > Ed,
> > > >
> > > > You're right! As the number reaches 12 or
> more the permutations get
> > into
> > > > the billions! There are some mathematicians
> who have made some
> > algorithms
> > > > that "approximate" the ideal solution with
> considerably less
> > > > computations. I'm no rocket scientist and I'm
> not going to the moon,
> > so
> > > > maybe an approximate solution would do.
> > > >
> > > > Smokey
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "Ed Anderson"
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT
> > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC
> Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > >
> > > > > As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes
> in the "traveling
> > Salesman"
> > > > problem for the possible permutations to
> quickly become large
> > enough to
> > > > take an excessive amount of time to solve on
> the computers of the day
> > (maybe
> > > > even the home computers of today).
> > > > >
> > > > > Ed
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: James Clark
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC
> Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In Business School it is one of the
> "tough" problems you learn to
> > > > solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I
> seem to recall) and
> > stuff. On
> > > > the EE & CS side, it is linked more to
> electrical and computer
> > "nodes". The
> > > > points could be network nodes, airports,
> customers to visit or
> > anything. The
> > > > basic idea is to solve for the "least
> expensive" (shortest, least
> > time,
> > > > least cost) route to cover all the spots.
> > > > >
> > > > > It kinda started back when companies had
> "traveling salesmen and
> > > > somebody realized they could be more efficient
> by taking a particular
> > path
> > > > as opposed to random ones to cover all of the
> territory.
> > > > >
> > > > > For some size/class of problem, there is
> some "guessing" involved.
> > > > Actually it is intelligent approximation and
> estimation. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck
> <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> Ron Schreck <
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > What's the "traveling salesman problem"?
> Does this have
> > something
> > > > to do with the farmer's daughter? Tell me
> more.
> > > > >
> > > > > Smokey
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: "James Clark"
> <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC
> Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I too have thought about this type of
> thing .. although for
> > SC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > People have done this type thing and
> the trick is to solve the
> > so
> > > > called
> > > > > > "travelling salesman" problem.
>
=== message truncated ==
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder
tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
Message 53
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
If anyone's interested, Ben is going to Reno for Air
Races in mid-Sept., and I'll be going w/ him. could
gaggle it out for 'Most Excellent Adventure II'.
Southern rout takes in Albequerque and G. Canyon as
wellas Vegas...Reno.
--- Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
> We ended up only overflying the Grand on the way
> out... after two days in
> Utah seeing the Zion NP and Bryce Canyon up close
> from the ground, we were
> convinced the Grand would be anticlimactic by
> comparison, and were right, I
> think.
>
> We found the best Mex restaurant ever in Kanab, UT.
> But the best Margaritas
> were the 27 ouncers in Cody, by a slim margin. The
> banana margaritas at the
> place in Kanab were fine, but smaller.
>
> We'll be happy to share what we've learned.
> Visually, Yellowstone pales
> compared to Zion and Bryce, and the Grand looks like
> a big hazy ditch from
> the allowed overflight altitudes.
>
> -Stormy
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> wrote:
> >
> Schreck <
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Stormy,
> >
> > Welcome home! Did you make it to the Grand
> Canyon? Kathy and I really
> > want to take that trip, but the timing wasn't
> right to continue that way
> > from Yellowstone. Hope you had a good time. If
> we do that trip next year
> > you can be our guide!
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 02:32:28 EDT
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd:
> [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > over photos
> > >
> > > I have a renewed respect for the precariousness
> of the nosewheel after
> > > seeing that vid and pix. Just today I had a car
> on the road whose speed
> > of
> > > travel placed him at the threshold at the exact
> moment I crossed it to
> > land
> > > here. With my attention diverted to ensure I
> didn't crease his roof, I
> > > looked up at the ASI to see 55 mph when I should
> see 65. Knowing I was
> > way
> > > behind the curve with the bottom about to drop
> out, I came in with a
> > burst
> > > of power. I ballooned a bit and floated a bit,
> but the touchdown was
> > > smooth, not the THUNK that would otherwise have
> occurred (so I've been
> > told
> > > - not that I ever abuse my landing gear that
> way.) You can bet that
> > video
> > > was in my mind as I punched the throttle. I
> replaced my nosegear years
> > ago
> > > as a precaution, but it's the original fork on
> there. The surface here
> > is
> > > okay but not great; no holes but plenty of
> bumps. I have no desire to
> > test
> > > the stoutness of the nose leg. Full back
> elevator as soon as I can get
> > it
> > > in without scraping the rudder bottom, and no
> brakes until truly needed
> > on
> > > rollout is my rule on every landing.
> > >
> > > Y'all be careful coming in here. I might just
> opt to add hull coverage
> > for
> > > the first time ever, since they dropped my
> liability-only rates to about
> > > $300/year this year (over the magic 600 hour
> mark, I guess.)
> > >
> > > -Stormy
> > >
> > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck
> <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > >
> Schreck <
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > Sir,
> > > >
> > > > About the time the US Army Air Corps
> decomissioned their last sod
> > field
> > > > they stopped contracting for tailwheel
> aircraft. Read about the
> > turbine
> > > > powered "P-51" Cavalier. The biggest reason
> they lost federal
> > financing and
> > > > any hopes of a lucrative contract was because
> of the lack of a nose
> > > > wheel. Don't think that reasoning had ever
> been applied prior to that
> > > > time. Nosegear aircraft are easier to land on
> improved
> > surfaces. Tailwheel
> > > > aircraft are safer to land on unimproved
> surfaces. This is a
> > > > generalization, of course, but you get the
> point. Let's do some touch
> > &
> > > > go's at Stormy's place and see what you think.
> ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Smokey
> > > > >
> > > > > From: <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:42:28 EDT
> > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd:
> [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > flipping
> > > > over photos
> > > > >
> <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Whatever. Why does the US military not use
> tailwheels? Huh what do
> > you
> > > > say to that sir.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Ron Schreck
> <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> > > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd:
> [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > flipping
> > > > over photos
> > > > > >
> Ron Schreck <
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rafael,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are no issues with nosewheels until
> they
> > colapse! Taildraggers
> > > > rule!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Smokey
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > > > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd:
> [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > flipping
> > > > over photos
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I may be all wrong, but after viewing
> the video, the plane seems
> > to
> > > > me to be
> > > > > > > traveling much faster than 15mph. I
> estimate over 10 airplane
> > > > lengths in 3
> > > > > > > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not
> that this is too fast,
> > just
> > > > faster
> > > > > > > than 15mph.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build
> kit in about 2 weeks and
> > am
> > > > really
> > > > > > > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle
> gear configuration. Are
>
=== message truncated ==
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
Message 54
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th |
Hey Bill,
It's about time you get that thing out of the basement! Now Nora can
remodel it for her scrapbook room....
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to Stormy's on the
30th
Let's see...
Move the airplane to the hangar or fly to Stormy's for a day of RV'ing with
link minded wing nuts.
Hummmm, tough question. However, after four plus years of building, the
pull to get the thing in the air wins out.
Besides, the 30th is my birthday and moving the thing to the airport seems
like a good gift.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to Stormy's on the
30th
Find an empty back/right seat and join us, Bill :-)
-Stormy
Officially back home now, just returned the plane from LWB.
On 6/17/07, Bill Repucci <bill@repucci.com> wrote:
That looks like the day I "might" move my fuselage to Goose. Any of you who
will be in the Charlotte area that day are more than welcome to lend a hand
and a trailer.
Which brings up another issue. Do any of you have a trailer that I might
borrow to get this thing to the airport. I must be at least 17 feet long
and a bit over 7 feet wide to fit my -9. Who would have thought the thing
was that long. This is probably the only time I wish would have built a -9A
and not a -9.
Have fun at Stormy's. Bummer I'm going to miss it but I think Stormy will
forgive me this time.
Bill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 55
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | For those of you not going to Stormy's on the 30th |
Bret,
That hurt! Nora has been told in no uncertain terms, none of her
"stuff" is allowed in the basement. Damn, she has already taken over
the entire house and 1/2 the garage.
Besides, she has already told me I have to start on another project once
the -9 is finished so I stay out of her hair. The only problem is, I'm
not sure what the next plane will be. I want it to be an open cockpit
rag and tube thing but I'm not sure which one. Any suggestions?
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret
Smith
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to Stormy's on
the 30th
Hey Bill,
It's about time you get that thing out of the basement! Now Nora can
remodel it for her scrapbook room....
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Repucci
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to Stormy's on
the 30th
Let's see...
Move the airplane to the hangar or fly to Stormy's for a day of RV'ing
with link minded wing nuts.
Hummmm, tough question. However, after four plus years of building, the
pull to get the thing in the air wins out.
Besides, the 30th is my birthday and moving the thing to the airport
seems like a good gift.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Boyd
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to Stormy's on
the 30th
Find an empty back/right seat and join us, Bill :-)
-Stormy
Officially back home now, just returned the plane from LWB.
On 6/17/07, Bill Repucci <bill@repucci.com> wrote:
That looks like the day I "might" move my fuselage to Goose. Any of you
who will be in the Charlotte area that day are more than welcome to lend
a hand and a trailer.
Which brings up another issue. Do any of you have a trailer that I
might borrow to get this thing to the airport. I must be at least 17
feet long and a bit over 7 feet wide to fit my -9. Who would have
thought the thing was that long. This is probably the only time I wish
would have built a -9A and not a -9.
Have fun at Stormy's. Bummer I'm going to miss it but I think Stormy
will forgive me this time.
Bill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 56
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
Stormy,
I agree with you 100%! A few years back I spent a four days hiking the
North rim trail in Zion, two through hiking the Narrows, and a day
walking around Bryce. The beauty of the place is just unimaginable.
Talk about sensory overload.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Boyd
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
over photos
We ended up only overflying the Grand on the way out... after two days
in Utah seeing the Zion NP and Bryce Canyon up close from the ground, we
were convinced the Grand would be anticlimactic by comparison, and were
right, I think.
We found the best Mex restaurant ever in Kanab, UT. But the best
Margaritas were the 27 ouncers in Cody, by a slim margin. The banana
margaritas at the place in Kanab were fine, but smaller.
We'll be happy to share what we've learned. Visually, Yellowstone pales
compared to Zion and Bryce, and the Grand looks like a big hazy ditch
from the allowed overflight altitudes.
-Stormy
On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
<ronschreck@windstream.net>
Stormy,
Welcome home! Did you make it to the Grand Canyon? Kathy and I really
want to take that trip, but the timing wasn't right to continue that way
from Yellowstone. Hope you had a good time. If we do that trip next
year you can be our guide!
Smokey
>
> From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 02:32:28 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
over photos
>
> I have a renewed respect for the precariousness of the nosewheel after
> seeing that vid and pix. Just today I had a car on the road whose
speed of
> travel placed him at the threshold at the exact moment I crossed it to
land
> here. With my attention diverted to ensure I didn't crease his roof,
I
> looked up at the ASI to see 55 mph when I should see 65. Knowing I
was way
> behind the curve with the bottom about to drop out, I came in with a
burst
> of power. I ballooned a bit and floated a bit, but the touchdown was
> smooth, not the THUNK that would otherwise have occurred (so I've been
told
> - not that I ever abuse my landing gear that way.) You can bet that
video
> was in my mind as I punched the throttle. I replaced my nosegear
years ago
> as a precaution, but it's the original fork on there. The surface
here is
> okay but not great; no holes but plenty of bumps. I have no desire to
test
> the stoutness of the nose leg. Full back elevator as soon as I can
get it
> in without scraping the rudder bottom, and no brakes until truly
needed on
> rollout is my rule on every landing.
>
> Y'all be careful coming in here. I might just opt to add hull
coverage for
> the first time ever, since they dropped my liability-only rates to
about
> $300/year this year (over the magic 600 hour mark, I guess.)
>
> -Stormy
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Sir,
> >
> > About the time the US Army Air Corps decomissioned their last sod
field
> > they stopped contracting for tailwheel aircraft. Read about the
turbine
> > powered "P-51" Cavalier. The biggest reason they lost federal
financing and
> > any hopes of a lucrative contract was because of the lack of a nose
> > wheel. Don't think that reasoning had ever been applied prior to
that
> > time. Nosegear aircraft are easier to land on improved surfaces.
Tailwheel
> > aircraft are safer to land on unimproved surfaces. This is a
> > generalization, of course, but you get the point. Let's do some
touch &
> > go's at Stormy's place and see what you think. ;-)
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:42:28 EDT
> > > To: < rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
flipping
> > over photos
> > >
> > >
> > > Whatever. Why does the US military not use tailwheels? Huh what
do you
> > say to that sir.
> > > >
> > > > From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
flipping
> > over photos
> > > >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > Rafael,
> > > >
> > > > There are no issues with nosewheels until they colapse!
Taildraggers
> > rule!
> > > >
> > > > Smokey
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > > > > To: < rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
flipping
> > over photos
> > > > >
> > > > > I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane
seems to
> > me to be
> > > > > traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane
> > lengths in 3
> > > > > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast,
just
> > faster
> > > > > than 15mph.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and
am
> > really
> > > > > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration.
Are
> > there any
> > > > > issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the
pilot
> > and
> > > > > passenger. This video as well as other advice made my
decision of
> > slider
> > > > > over tip-up.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Rafael
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com>
> > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of
> > Bill
> > > > > Repucci
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
flipping
> > over
> > > > > photos
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
> > > > > http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will
see
> > more
> > > > > pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going
> > over. Here is
> > > > > some of the text from the link:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft
Farm
> > on 9th
> > > > > June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing
roll, and
> > with
> > > > > some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air
and
> > when it
> > > > > came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
> > > > >
> > > > > Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground
marshal.
> > > > >
> > > > > The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have
> > handled it,
> > > > > how bizarre!"
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of
> > Bill
> > > > > Repucci
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
flipping
> > over
> > > > > photos
> > > > >
> > > > > The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose
wheel pant
> > prior
> > > > > to the flight, for reasons unknown.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > [mailto: <mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > John S
> > > > > Cargill
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
flipping
> > over
> > > > > photos
> > > > >
> > > > > In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe he hit a rabbit?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Cappy
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
> > > > >
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
flipping
> > over
> > > > > photos
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced
my
> > nose gear
> > > > > for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears
had
> > failed, I
> > > > > did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was
supposedly
> > no
> > > > > longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and
during
> > high speed
> > > > > taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was
tucking
> > back and
> > > > > then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put
wooden
> > > > > stiffeners back on the nose gear.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new
much
> > larger prop.
> > > > > I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate
of
> > sink, etc.
> > > > > To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the
throttle
> > all the
> > > > > way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed
and
> > dropped
> > > > > out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the
stick
> > back into
> > > > > my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear,
> > bounced into
> > > > > the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder
fairings
> > (yes,
> > > > > still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and
eventually came
> > to a
> > > > > stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt
bearings
> > as well
> > > > > as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing -
but
> > > > > fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have
surely had
> > me doing
> > > > > the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined
the
> > nose gear,
> > > > > I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the
gear had
> > both
> > > > > broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that
the
> > ending
> > > > > would not have been as happy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional
data on
> > the
> > > > > phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ed
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Larry Bowen <mailto: Larry@bowenaero.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
over
> > photos
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything
> > right....
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Larry Bowen
> > > > > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > > > > http://BowenAero.com < http://bowenaero.com/
<http://bowenaero.com/> >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com <mailto:gary@rvdar.com> >
> > > > > To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was
in my
> > > > > eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK
RV-7A
> > that
> > > > > had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no
injuries
> > > > > reported in the story.
> > > > >
> > > > > A link to the story.
> > > > > http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
<http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412>
> > > > >
> > > > > Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
<http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html>
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > http://www.matron
> > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com> ">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > href=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > http://www.matron
> > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List> ">
> > http://www.matron
> > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > href="
http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
Message 57
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Will do Ed.
Thanks,
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed
Anderson
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:16 PM
Subject: ***SPAM***
Hi, Bill
Give me a call/e mail the day before you plan on moving your aircraft
and I'll be out to GooseCreek to help
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Boyd <mailto:sportav8r@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to Stormy's on
the 30th
Celebrated mine in Clinton, OK, trying to get home... made it, too, to
17 for the third time.
-Stormy
On 6/17/07, Bill Repucci < bill@repucci.com <mailto:bill@repucci.com> >
wrote:
Let's see...
Move the airplane to the hangar or fly to Stormy's for a day of RV'ing
with link minded wing nuts.
Hummmm, tough question. However, after four plus years of building, the
pull to get the thing in the air wins out.
Besides, the 30th is my birthday and moving the thing to the airport
seems like a good gift.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Boyd
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: For those of you not going to Stormy's on
the 30th
Find an empty back/right seat and join us, Bill :-)
-Stormy
Officially back home now, just returned the plane from LWB.
On 6/17/07, Bill Repucci <bill@repucci.com> wrote:
That looks like the day I "might" move my fuselage to Goose. Any of you
who will be in the Charlotte area that day are more than welcome to lend
a hand and a trailer.
Which brings up another issue. Do any of you have a trailer that I
might borrow to get this thing to the airport. I must be at least 17
feet long and a bit over 7 feet wide to fit my -9. Who would have
thought the thing was that long. This is probably the only time I wish
would have built a -9A and not a -9.
Have fun at Stormy's. Bummer I'm going to miss it but I think Stormy
will forgive me this time.
Bill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com"> <http://forums.matronics.com>
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 58
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Charlie,
I have already found two mathemeticians who are helping me with the TSP solution.
My rough "yardstick" calculations give a route of about 1800 miles. Even
at 140 knots and with 4 fuel stops I think I can keep the trip under 15 hours.
I'm still working on it. I have asked the NC DOT Dept of Aviation if anyone
has done it before. No reply yet. More to come.
Ron
>
> From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 04:47:44 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
>
> Radomir Zaric wrote:
> >
> > I've thought of something like that..
> >
> > I think it has been done in other states.. forgot which one it was.
> >
> > Anyways, put "Traveling Salesman Problem" in Google and see if you find the
> > right software... that'll solve the main problem -- how to visit each place
> > once, and only once while minimizing time/gas/money spent on the trip.
> >
> > Good luck!
>
> A couple of friends did it in MS about 15 years ago; I don't think they
> realized that it had been done 30 or 40 years earlier.
>
> I suspect that their planning was 'map & yardstick on the table'; one
> doesn't even own a computer & that long ago I doubt the other did either.
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
Message 59
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
Stormy,
Hope you kept good notes. You may be flight lead for next year's trip! We stopped
a Clinton, OK on the way to Houston. Can't beat the $3.25 gas and great
service. That's my third stop there.
Smokey
>
> From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 06:22:05 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
>
> We ended up only overflying the Grand on the way out... after two days in
> Utah seeing the Zion NP and Bryce Canyon up close from the ground, we were
> convinced the Grand would be anticlimactic by comparison, and were right, I
> think.
>
> We found the best Mex restaurant ever in Kanab, UT. But the best Margaritas
> were the 27 ouncers in Cody, by a slim margin. The banana margaritas at the
> place in Kanab were fine, but smaller.
>
> We'll be happy to share what we've learned. Visually, Yellowstone pales
> compared to Zion and Bryce, and the Grand looks like a big hazy ditch from
> the allowed overflight altitudes.
>
> -Stormy
>
> On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> >
> > Stormy,
> >
> > Welcome home! Did you make it to the Grand Canyon? Kathy and I really
> > want to take that trip, but the timing wasn't right to continue that way
> > from Yellowstone. Hope you had a good time. If we do that trip next year
> > you can be our guide!
> >
> > Smokey
> > >
> > > From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
> > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 02:32:28 EDT
> > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > over photos
> > >
> > > I have a renewed respect for the precariousness of the nosewheel after
> > > seeing that vid and pix. Just today I had a car on the road whose speed
> > of
> > > travel placed him at the threshold at the exact moment I crossed it to
> > land
> > > here. With my attention diverted to ensure I didn't crease his roof, I
> > > looked up at the ASI to see 55 mph when I should see 65. Knowing I was
> > way
> > > behind the curve with the bottom about to drop out, I came in with a
> > burst
> > > of power. I ballooned a bit and floated a bit, but the touchdown was
> > > smooth, not the THUNK that would otherwise have occurred (so I've been
> > told
> > > - not that I ever abuse my landing gear that way.) You can bet that
> > video
> > > was in my mind as I punched the throttle. I replaced my nosegear years
> > ago
> > > as a precaution, but it's the original fork on there. The surface here
> > is
> > > okay but not great; no holes but plenty of bumps. I have no desire to
> > test
> > > the stoutness of the nose leg. Full back elevator as soon as I can get
> > it
> > > in without scraping the rudder bottom, and no brakes until truly needed
> > on
> > > rollout is my rule on every landing.
> > >
> > > Y'all be careful coming in here. I might just opt to add hull coverage
> > for
> > > the first time ever, since they dropped my liability-only rates to about
> > > $300/year this year (over the magic 600 hour mark, I guess.)
> > >
> > > -Stormy
> > >
> > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > >
> > > > Sir,
> > > >
> > > > About the time the US Army Air Corps decomissioned their last sod
> > field
> > > > they stopped contracting for tailwheel aircraft. Read about the
> > turbine
> > > > powered "P-51" Cavalier. The biggest reason they lost federal
> > financing and
> > > > any hopes of a lucrative contract was because of the lack of a nose
> > > > wheel. Don't think that reasoning had ever been applied prior to that
> > > > time. Nosegear aircraft are easier to land on improved
> > surfaces. Tailwheel
> > > > aircraft are safer to land on unimproved surfaces. This is a
> > > > generalization, of course, but you get the point. Let's do some touch
> > &
> > > > go's at Stormy's place and see what you think. ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Smokey
> > > > >
> > > > > From: <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:42:28 EDT
> > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > flipping
> > > > over photos
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Whatever. Why does the US military not use tailwheels? Huh what do
> > you
> > > > say to that sir.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> > > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > flipping
> > > > over photos
> > > > > >
> > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rafael,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are no issues with nosewheels until they
> > colapse! Taildraggers
> > > > rule!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Smokey
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > > > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > flipping
> > > > over photos
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I may be all wrong, but after viewing the video, the plane seems
> > to
> > > > me to be
> > > > > > > traveling much faster than 15mph. I estimate over 10 airplane
> > > > lengths in 3
> > > > > > > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not that this is too fast,
> > just
> > > > faster
> > > > > > > than 15mph.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build kit in about 2 weeks and
> > am
> > > > really
> > > > > > > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle gear configuration. Are
> > > > there any
> > > > > > > issues with the 7A nose-wheel?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > BTW, it looks like having the slider somewhat protected the
> > pilot
> > > > and
> > > > > > > passenger. This video as well as other advice made my decision
> > of
> > > > slider
> > > > > > > over tip-up.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rafael
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _____
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> > Of
> > > > Bill
> > > > > > > Repucci
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> > > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > flipping
> > > > over
> > > > > > > photos
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PS. This link was just posted on vansairforce.net.
> > > > > > > http://www.eezicam.co.uk/intro.htm Scroll down and you will see
> > > > more
> > > > > > > pictures and a link to a cell phone video of the plane going
> > > > over. Here is
> > > > > > > some of the text from the link:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Unfortunately, Romeo Mike was damaged in an incident at Croft
> > Farm
> > > > on 9th
> > > > > > > June. The damage is substantial. At the end of the landing roll,
> > and
> > > > with
> > > > > > > some braking applied, the nose was bounced back into the air and
> > > > when it
> > > > > > > came down it buckled under and flipped the aircraft over.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Speed was estimated as 10-15 mph by Richard and a ground
> > marshal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The runway was not a bad surface and the aircraft should have
> > > > handled it,
> > > > > > > how bizarre!"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> > Of
> > > > Bill
> > > > > > > Repucci
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:06 AM
> > > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > flipping
> > > > over
> > > > > > > photos
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The original thread mentions that he had removed the nose wheel
> > pant
> > > > prior
> > > > > > > to the flight, for reasons unknown.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > > > [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> > Of
> > > > John S
> > > > > > > Cargill
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:06 PM
> > > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > flipping
> > > > over
> > > > > > > photos
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the photos where is the nose wheel pant?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maybe he hit a rabbit?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cappy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: Ed <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Anderson
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:01 PM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > flipping
> > > > over
> > > > > > > photos
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don't know if anything to it, but back in 1998 when I replaced
> > my
> > > > nose gear
> > > > > > > for a beefier one offered by Van's after several nose gears had
> > > > failed, I
> > > > > > > did not put the wooden stiffener strips on it as that was
> > supposedly
> > > > no
> > > > > > > longer needed. However, I noticed right after landing and
> > during
> > > > high speed
> > > > > > > taxi that there was a sensation as if the nose wheel was tucking
> > > > back and
> > > > > > > then pulling forward. I did not like the sensation so I put
> > wooden
> > > > > > > stiffeners back on the nose gear.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Years later I had the learning lesson of flying with a new much
> > > > larger prop.
> > > > > > > I neglected to go to altitude to determine its affect on rate of
> > > > sink, etc.
> > > > > > > To make a long story short, when landing long I pulled the
> > throttle
> > > > all the
> > > > > > > way back to the stops and immediately lost 10-15 mph airspeed
> > and
> > > > dropped
> > > > > > > out of the air from 10-12 feet. I only had time to get the
> > stick
> > > > back into
> > > > > > > my stomach before (fortunately) hitting on the two main gear,
> > > > bounced into
> > > > > > > the air for another 4-6 feet this time dragging the rudder
> > fairings
> > > > (yes,
> > > > > > > still had the stick tucked back to my backbone), and eventually
> > came
> > > > to a
> > > > > > > stop (right side up and on the runway at Goosecreek).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bent both main gear and had to replace the rudder eyebolt
> > bearings
> > > > as well
> > > > > > > as do a bit of fiberglass work on the rudder bottom fairing -
> > but
> > > > > > > fortunately the nose never tucked under which would have surely
> > had
> > > > me doing
> > > > > > > the infamous RV-6A nose-spinner pole vault. When I examined the
> > > > nose gear,
> > > > > > > I found the two wooden stiffeners I had fiberglassed to the gear
> > had
> > > > both
> > > > > > > broken. I am convinced that had I not had the stiffeners that
> > the
> > > > ending
> > > > > > > would not have been as happy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just my opinion, since I had no desire to collect additional
> > data on
> > > > the
> > > > > > > phenomena to verify my theory{:>)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ed
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: Larry Bowen <mailto:Larry@bowenaero.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:12 PM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > over
> > > > photos
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yeeouch. First picture looked like he was doing everything
> > > > right....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Larry Bowen
> > > > > > > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > > > > > > http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > From: Gary A. Sobek <gary@rvdar.com>
> > > > > > > To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The RV Hotline http://www.expercraft.com/hotline/current was in
> > my
> > > > > > > eMail box this morning. There is a story in it about a UK RV-7A
> > > > that
> > > > > > > had photos taken WHILE it was NOSING OVER. There were no
> > injuries
> > > > > > > reported in the story.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A link to the story.
> > > > > > > http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279412
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here are the photos taken while it was flipping.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49328.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49329.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49330.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.airteamimages.com/49331.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > > > http://www.matron
> > > > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > > > http://www.matron
> > > > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">
> > > > http://www.matron
> > > > > > > ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
> > > > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 60
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
Bill,
The NC DOT Avaiation Division's "NC Airport Guide" lists 110 PUBLIC airports.
They say there are about 300 private airports and heliports. I had to pick reasonable
criteria. Can't imagine trying to get permission to land at hundreds
of private airports and certainly not in one day!
Smokey
>
> From: bill crothers <bill28104@yahoo.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 08:47:53 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>
>
> BTW guys, there are WAY more than 110 airports in NC..
> I can show 20 near clt counting all the private ones,
> many which I have visited. I bet its 200+. Reno.
> --- James Clark <jclarkmail@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ooops. You are correct.
> >
> > That was on some of my FLORIDA charts!! And they did
> > not have every airport,
> > just the majors.
> >
> > I suspect the Department of Transportation has the
> > data though. A lot of
> > points though ... I think nxn/2
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > Schreck <
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > James,
> > >
> > > I have the NC Aeronautical Chart and I don't see
> > any distances listed. I
> > > may put all of the airports on a flight planning
> > program and start
> > > connecting dots. Very unscientific, but I'm no
> > rocket scientist.
> > >
> > > Smokey
> > > >
> > > > From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:53:03 EDT
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports -
> > 110 destinations
> > > >
> > > > Ron,
> > > >
> > > > I bet you didn't realize you were opening such a
> > can of mathematical
> > > worms
> > > > did ya? :-)
> > > >
> > > > It is a simple to describe but tough to solve
> > problem.
> > > >
> > > > I was doing some envelope scratching to see if I
> > could come up with a
> > > way to
> > > > do it easily in Excel. (My head is hurting now.
> > :-) )
> > > >
> > > > Ask your friends if they have an Excel solution
> > that can handle a
> > > 100x100
> > > > matrix. I **think** there may be a way to get
> > "solver" in Excel to do
> > > such.
> > > >
> > > > Then the only "work to do is enter the distances
> > from/to all of the
> > > > airports. That data is typically o the backs of
> > the state aeronautical
> > > > charts as I recall.
> > > >
> > > > We just might have a "solution" be fore the day
> > is over. :-) If so, I
> > > plan
> > > > to apply it to SC, which has <100 public
> > airports.
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > > p.s. Seems like there was an article about this
> > where a guy in NJ did
> > > this.
> > > > There are fewer airports there and I think it
> > was done in a day. The guy
> > > may
> > > > have been associated with Princeton. My mind is
> > fuzzy right now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck
> > <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > Schreck <
> > > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Ed,
> > > > >
> > > > > You're right! As the number reaches 12 or
> > more the permutations get
> > > into
> > > > > the billions! There are some mathematicians
> > who have made some
> > > algorithms
> > > > > that "approximate" the ideal solution with
> > considerably less
> > > > > computations. I'm no rocket scientist and I'm
> > not going to the moon,
> > > so
> > > > > maybe an approximate solution would do.
> > > > >
> > > > > Smokey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: "Ed Anderson"
> > <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 10:39:53 EDT
> > > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC
> > Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As I recall, it doesn't take very many nodes
> > in the "traveling
> > > Salesman"
> > > > > problem for the possible permutations to
> > quickly become large
> > > enough to
> > > > > take an excessive amount of time to solve on
> > the computers of the day
> > > (maybe
> > > > > even the home computers of today).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ed
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: James Clark
> > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:34 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC
> > Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Business School it is one of the
> > "tough" problems you learn to
> > > > > solve. Introduces you to linear algebra (as I
> > seem to recall) and
> > > stuff. On
> > > > > the EE & CS side, it is linked more to
> > electrical and computer
> > > "nodes". The
> > > > > points could be network nodes, airports,
> > customers to visit or
> > > anything. The
> > > > > basic idea is to solve for the "least
> > expensive" (shortest, least
> > > time,
> > > > > least cost) route to cover all the spots.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It kinda started back when companies had
> > "traveling salesmen and
> > > > > somebody realized they could be more efficient
> > by taking a particular
> > > path
> > > > > as opposed to random ones to cover all of the
> > territory.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For some size/class of problem, there is
> > some "guessing" involved.
> > > > > Actually it is intelligent approximation and
> > estimation. :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > James
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck
> > <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > Ron Schreck <
> > > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What's the "traveling salesman problem"?
> > Does this have
> > > something
> > > > > to do with the farmer's daughter? Tell me
> > more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Smokey
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: "James Clark"
> > <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 08:17:46 EDT
> > > > > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC
> > Airports - 110 destinations
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I too have thought about this type of
> > thing .. although for
> > > SC.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > People have done this type thing and
> > the trick is to solve the
> > > so
> > > > > called
> > > > > > > "travelling salesman" problem.
> >
> === message truncated ==
>
>
>
>
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder
tool.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
>
>
>
>
>
Message 61
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos |
The "Gathering of Mustangs" is scheduled for 27-30 September in Columus, OH. So
many things to do, so little time!
Smokey
>
> From: bill crothers <bill28104@yahoo.com>
> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 08:56:46 EDT
> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd: [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping over photos
>
>
> If anyone's interested, Ben is going to Reno for Air
> Races in mid-Sept., and I'll be going w/ him. could
> gaggle it out for 'Most Excellent Adventure II'.
> Southern rout takes in Albequerque and G. Canyon as
> wellas Vegas...Reno.
> --- Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We ended up only overflying the Grand on the way
> > out... after two days in
> > Utah seeing the Zion NP and Bryce Canyon up close
> > from the ground, we were
> > convinced the Grand would be anticlimactic by
> > comparison, and were right, I
> > think.
> >
> > We found the best Mex restaurant ever in Kanab, UT.
> > But the best Margaritas
> > were the 27 ouncers in Cody, by a slim margin. The
> > banana margaritas at the
> > place in Kanab were fine, but smaller.
> >
> > We'll be happy to share what we've learned.
> > Visually, Yellowstone pales
> > compared to Zion and Bryce, and the Grand looks like
> > a big hazy ditch from
> > the allowed overflight altitudes.
> >
> > -Stormy
> >
> > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > Schreck <
> > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > >
> > > Stormy,
> > >
> > > Welcome home! Did you make it to the Grand
> > Canyon? Kathy and I really
> > > want to take that trip, but the timing wasn't
> > right to continue that way
> > > from Yellowstone. Hope you had a good time. If
> > we do that trip next year
> > > you can be our guide!
> > >
> > > Smokey
> > > >
> > > > From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
> > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 02:32:28 EDT
> > > > To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd:
> > [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A flipping
> > > over photos
> > > >
> > > > I have a renewed respect for the precariousness
> > of the nosewheel after
> > > > seeing that vid and pix. Just today I had a car
> > on the road whose speed
> > > of
> > > > travel placed him at the threshold at the exact
> > moment I crossed it to
> > > land
> > > > here. With my attention diverted to ensure I
> > didn't crease his roof, I
> > > > looked up at the ASI to see 55 mph when I should
> > see 65. Knowing I was
> > > way
> > > > behind the curve with the bottom about to drop
> > out, I came in with a
> > > burst
> > > > of power. I ballooned a bit and floated a bit,
> > but the touchdown was
> > > > smooth, not the THUNK that would otherwise have
> > occurred (so I've been
> > > told
> > > > - not that I ever abuse my landing gear that
> > way.) You can bet that
> > > video
> > > > was in my mind as I punched the throttle. I
> > replaced my nosegear years
> > > ago
> > > > as a precaution, but it's the original fork on
> > there. The surface here
> > > is
> > > > okay but not great; no holes but plenty of
> > bumps. I have no desire to
> > > test
> > > > the stoutness of the nose leg. Full back
> > elevator as soon as I can get
> > > it
> > > > in without scraping the rudder bottom, and no
> > brakes until truly needed
> > > on
> > > > rollout is my rule on every landing.
> > > >
> > > > Y'all be careful coming in here. I might just
> > opt to add hull coverage
> > > for
> > > > the first time ever, since they dropped my
> > liability-only rates to about
> > > > $300/year this year (over the magic 600 hour
> > mark, I guess.)
> > > >
> > > > -Stormy
> > > >
> > > > On 6/17/07, Ron Schreck
> > <ronschreck@windstream.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > Schreck <
> > > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Sir,
> > > > >
> > > > > About the time the US Army Air Corps
> > decomissioned their last sod
> > > field
> > > > > they stopped contracting for tailwheel
> > aircraft. Read about the
> > > turbine
> > > > > powered "P-51" Cavalier. The biggest reason
> > they lost federal
> > > financing and
> > > > > any hopes of a lucrative contract was because
> > of the lack of a nose
> > > > > wheel. Don't think that reasoning had ever
> > been applied prior to that
> > > > > time. Nosegear aircraft are easier to land on
> > improved
> > > surfaces. Tailwheel
> > > > > aircraft are safer to land on unimproved
> > surfaces. This is a
> > > > > generalization, of course, but you get the
> > point. Let's do some touch
> > > &
> > > > > go's at Stormy's place and see what you think.
> > ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Smokey
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:42:28 EDT
> > > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd:
> > [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > > flipping
> > > > > over photos
> > > > > >
> > <tadsargent@bellsouth.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whatever. Why does the US military not use
> > tailwheels? Huh what do
> > > you
> > > > > say to that sir.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: Ron Schreck
> > <ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:33:06 EDT
> > > > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd:
> > [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > > flipping
> > > > > over photos
> > > > > > >
> > Ron Schreck <
> > > > > ronschreck@windstream.net>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rafael,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are no issues with nosewheels until
> > they
> > > colapse! Taildraggers
> > > > > rule!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Smokey
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: "Rafael" <rafael@gforcecable.com>
> > > > > > > > Date: 2007/06/17 Sun AM 11:10:33 EDT
> > > > > > > > To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Fwd:
> > [SoCAL-RVlist] RV-7A
> > > flipping
> > > > > over photos
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I may be all wrong, but after viewing
> > the video, the plane seems
> > > to
> > > > > me to be
> > > > > > > > traveling much faster than 15mph. I
> > estimate over 10 airplane
> > > > > lengths in 3
> > > > > > > > seconds, which is closer to 50mph. Not
> > that this is too fast,
> > > just
> > > > > faster
> > > > > > > > than 15mph.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I will be receiving my 7A quick-build
> > kit in about 2 weeks and
> > > am
> > > > > really
> > > > > > > > having second thoughts on the tri-cycle
> > gear configuration. Are
> >
> === message truncated ==
>
>
>
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
>
>
>
>
>
Message 62
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: NC Airports - 110 destinations |
I talked to my neighbor today; they did 90+ airports in about 19 hours,
including some missteps with the other pilot's just-acquired, brand new
technology GPS. A/C was a Cessna 180.
Have fun...
Ron Schreck wrote:
>
> Charlie,
>
> I have already found two mathemeticians who are helping me with the TSP solution.
My rough "yardstick" calculations give a route of about 1800 miles. Even
at 140 knots and with 4 fuel stops I think I can keep the trip under 15 hours.
I'm still working on it. I have asked the NC DOT Dept of Aviation if anyone
has done it before. No reply yet. More to come.
>
> Ron
>> From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>> Date: 2007/06/17 Sun PM 04:47:44 EDT
>> To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: NC Airports - 110 destinations
>>
>>
>> Radomir Zaric wrote:
>>>
>>> I've thought of something like that..
>>>
>>> I think it has been done in other states.. forgot which one it was.
>>>
>>> Anyways, put "Traveling Salesman Problem" in Google and see if you find the
>>> right software... that'll solve the main problem -- how to visit each place
>>> once, and only once while minimizing time/gas/money spent on the trip.
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>> A couple of friends did it in MS about 15 years ago; I don't think they
>> realized that it had been done 30 or 40 years earlier.
>>
>> I suspect that their planning was 'map & yardstick on the table'; one
>> doesn't even own a computer & that long ago I doubt the other did either.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|